Why Bush is the man for the job

[nindracula]

To Permakid:

Bush's ignorance or coke habit

If Bush is ignorant about something, say what it is so we can talk about it.

Coke habit? That's a joke right? Seriously, please explain where that came from.

What other policies do you want to talk about? War is obviously the biggest issue, the economy next. Both have been touched upon. I will gladly talk about anything else too.

[Babs]

People gripe, personally, about Bush because they are not in power... and they don't have a real case against him. What else can they do?

Edited April 22, 2004 by Babs

[Permakid]

If Bush is ignorant about something, say what it is so we can talk about it.

Umm, how about the English language.

Coke habit?  That's a joke right? Seriously, please explain where that came from.

Not a joke. I'm sure you can easily find tons of information about George Bush's evasive answers to the simple question, "Have you ever used cocaine?" Just do a Google search for "George Bush" + "cocaine".

What other policies do you want to talk about? War is obviously the biggest issue, the economy next. Both have been touched upon. I will gladly talk about anything else too.

For starters how about health care, education, and civil liberties. Oh, and I must have missed the post addressing Bush's positive handling of the economy, so you can include that too.

[Seraphina]

Could you Bush supporters please talk about something besides the war? All that rhetoric sounds to me like a testoserone-charged "my (warhead)'s bigger than yours" contest easily propogated to many of my fellow citizens through fear.

Yes I'd noticed that...everyone who's supported Bush thus far seems to say something along the lines of "he's got the guts to stand up to terrorists" or "he did the right thing, and went into Iraq"...not a word on what he's actually doing to run the country?

As isleepwithlightson has pointed out, he's messing up employment for a start...add to that health care, benefit schemes, people's civil rights (for a man who's so focused on "fighting for freedom", he does seem very fond of taking it away)...in fact, nothing immedietly springs to mind that he hasn't made a total pigs ear of.

Ousting a dictator from power (let along in the blunderous way he went about it) does not make someone a good president. I'm waiting to hear any arguement for Bush that actually deals with him as a man qualified to lead the country...not as some flag waving, charge in with all guns blazing, military man

[nindracula]

Bush had made some funny errors while speaking. There's even a book for sale that compiled some of them. When I watch him speak it always starts out boring, then interesting, then inspiring, because he is always able to convey his message of freedom in a very down to earth and believable way. So even though he has made some errors in his speach, I find him to be a good speaker non the less.

I googled the cocaine thing and found something on one of his daughters. I haven't found anything about the President using cocaine. I am very doubtful I will find any proof beyond opinions, but I will keep searching. I will say that even if he had in the past, I can certainly forgive a guy for trying out something dumb when he was young. I judge a person more on what he has done recently that what he did many years ago. But again, I'm just responding to a hypothetical situation where Bush did try it. I'll keep searching.

Health care, education, and civil liberties. I don't know anything on healthcare. Bush's "No child left behind" is getting mixed reviews, and I don't know anything more than that. By civil liberties, you must mean the patriot act, which I believe is neccessary for catching terrorists before they strike. All it does is allow the same freedoms the government has had in catching drug dealers and members of the mafia to be extended to terrorists.

[nindracula]

I'm waiting to hear any arguement for Bush that actually deals with him as a man qualified to lead the country

Someone who is able to free 6 million people from torture, rape rooms, and secret police is a valid argument for Bush in my opinion. Especially considering that we all pretty much know Kerry if president would never have done such a thing.

Alot of people agree with his economic policies too. They seem to be working in my opinion. People who call it a "Jobless recovery" forget that jobs are a lagging indicator of a recoverying economy. His tax cuts are another valid argument.

As isleepwithlightson has pointed out, he's messing up employment for a start...add to that health care, benefit schemes, people's civil rights (for a man who's so focused on "fighting for freedom", he does seem very fond of taking it away)...in fact, nothing immedietly springs to mind that he hasn't made a total pigs ear of.

Just give some examples so we can talk about them. If you say health care or civil rights, what exactly did he do to mess them up?

[sweetpea]

I lost my aerospace job because of 9-11, not Pres. Bush. When 35,000 Boeing employees lost their jobs, the unions representing us workers (IAM, SPEEA) blamed it all on Pres. Bush. Pres. Bush did NOT cause us to lose our jobs, how many times do we need to remind them??

Despite what the Dems will say, we were starting the recession during the final year of Clinton's administration.

Liberating over 50 million people ought to be used in Bush's campaign strategy because it is the truth. Some people here may not like it but remember, we are in a war unlike any other in our nations' history. Our basic liberties and freedoms are being threatened and who better to LEAD us than Pres. Bush? Has anyone forgotten 9-11??

And like I mentioned in my last post, John Kerry would like nothing better than for America to be under the control of the UN, yes, that anti-american, anti-semitic, impotent entity John Kerry adores so much. Would any of you want your children or grandchildren who choose military service to be controlled by the UN? I know it's hard to fathom but if John Kerry had his way, it could happen.

I don't want to hear about the "outsourcing" of jobs, just look at the Heinz Company, 75-80% of their employees work outside the USA and Kerry is complaining about jobs being outsourced and blaming Bush???? It's funny that many of Heinz corporate executives contribute to the Republican Party

I think that is so funny!!!

[chico del nacho]

personally i'm not a big fan of bush. this has been established. still, i really do enjoy hearing his occasional (yes, even a relatively apathetic anti-bush non-american admits they are only occasional) screw-ups with words.

i also positively loved how the media drummed up his almost choking on a pretzel. they made it the most complicated sounding thing. according to them, the pretzel stopped his heart! if it did, that is an EXTREMELY intense bit of food.

pretzel, the deadliest of snack foods. don't you think his whole term in office would've ended pretty damn anticlimactically if he was taken out by a pretzel?

[Seraphina]

Our basic liberties and freedoms are being threatened and who better to LEAD us than Pres. Bush?

You do realise that Bush is threatening your freedom the most? In fact, under the patriot act, you could be arrested and held indefinately without trial, without the right to speak with a lawyer, and without being told what you've been charged with Didn't Hitler do that?

If you'd take your mind of this Americana rubbish about the war (which, whether Saddam should have been dealt with or not, was conducted in a way that was an absolute blunder), and take a look at what he's actually doing toto your country, I struggle to see how anyone could still support him...you're trusting a man who ran no less than three companies he tried to run into the ground to take care of your country?

[nindracula]

If you want to know the truth about the patriot act, visit here: http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/u_myths.htm

It dispels any myths one might believe about the patriot act.

conducted in a way that was an absolute blunder

If it was a blunder, say how it was one so we can respond.

you're trusting a man who ran no less than three companies he tried to run into the ground

Bush tried to run three companies into the ground? I never heard that before. Please explain.

Oh and chico, I don't remember when Bush choked, but I really gotta try some of those heart-stopping pretzels... I drank a case of mountain dew once and my heart was beating so fast it started to hurt, I swear... It was fun

[sweetpea]

Oh nindracula, thank you for referring Seraphina the patriot act website, you kind of stole my thunder and I thank you for it.

My basic liberties and freedoms remain intact. I have no idea what you are talking about Seraphina. I am a law-abiding US citizen so there is no fear of being arrested for no apparent reason. However, if I am conducting illegal activity such as aiding and abedding the enemy (terror cells) then yah, I would despise the patriot act.

I don't get it, why do liberals hate the Patriot Act so much? It is in place to protect them and the rest of us law-abiding citizens from potential harm again.

I can't recall Bush running three companies to the ground, please, where is the evidence? Or is this just left-wing propaganda?

[Babs]

I wonder how Seraphina would propose to nab terrorists in our country?

Edited April 23, 2004 by Babs

[Buddy_Hongster]

After reading the post thus far...One thing came into my mind. Why did U.S bother to liberate Iraq?? I'm starting to believe that the people in Iraq deserve Saddam. You guys see it as liberation....Iraqis see it as invasion. Why bother??

I still say Bush made a bad call to attack Iraq. Look what had happened...It certainly didn't stop those terrorist, it definately did not stop U.S soldiers' casualties.

Violence escalating, anti-U.S sentiment is getting out of control, Shiites and Sunnis are both agaisnt the U.S troops, mutilated soldiers' bodies, violence in Fallujah. You tell me if Bush's idea of liberating Iraq was a good one...?? And I still say this people deserve Saddam.

[stillcrazy]

Why did U.S bother to liberate Iraq?? I'm starting to believe that the people in Iraq deserve Saddam. You guys see it as liberation....Iraqis see it as invasion. Why bother??

What you see on the TV and read in the newspapers is only the negative. Most of the Iraqi people are glad that the U.S. and U.K. diposed Saddam. But of course that kind of news won't sell ad space now will it.

As for the Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Parts of it have alread been deemed to be in violation of the constitution. Also, if a student is researching any of the "Hot" topics as deemed by the DOJ, all his records are subject to investigation, without any crimminal case having been opened.

Too many times in the past, the Federal Government has used laws against it's own people, or have violated the laws in a 'means justify the end' mentality. (Yes I quoted it right.)

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Now depending on how you look at things, I consider e-mail private. If I tell my freind I saw the movie 'Die Hard with a vengence', and use the words terrorist, bomb, school and german. I can almost be certain the intel agents are going to flag my email and me for further investigation. There will be a seizure of my bank records and library accounts, as well as a monitor on my ISP. Why, because I described a movie. There is a crimminal investigation and search without a reasonable cause. But if you read section 362 of the Pat Act, it clearly states that it is LOOKING FOR Crimminal and Tax violations, and if they find terrorist in the meantime, that's good too.

It may sound like an over the top idea. But I have seen what this country is capable of when people of the government are backed against the wall.

I saw that the sight you linked to explains the myths of the patriot act. This is a good site, and explains in an ideal world that the Patriot act is a good thing, and if it were used in the manner it was intended I would agree with it. But the U.S. government has been known for not following it's own law.

As for Bush, I still think he is leading the U.S. into the era of 0 respect from all others on this planet. But Kerry is going to be worse. In other words, there is no real presidential choice,

[nindracula]

Why did U.S bother to liberate Iraq??

To free millions from rape rooms, torture, secret police, missing relatives, mass-graves with hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, wars of aggression started by saddam that killed millions. Millions is no exageration either. Example: Iran Iraq war.

To keep Saddam from developing WMD. He already showed his willingness to use them on his own people. One less anti-american dictator to threaten the USA.

Saddam paid the families of sucide bombers. Iraq was a safe-haven for terrorists. Not anymore.

Look what had happened...It certainly didn't stop those terrorist, it definately did not stop U.S soldiers' casualties.

That is looking too short term. When we liberated Iraq, groups of terrorists made Iraq their battleground. Our military is handling them very well. It is a very uneven fight. Your anger towards US casualties and terrorism is understandable, but your anger might be misplaced. I myself am angry at the terrorists, not President Bush.

We are fighting in Iraq now so that future generations won't have to.

anti-U.S sentiment is getting out of control, Shiites and Sunnis are both agaisnt the U.S troops

The vast majority of Iraqis are in fact not against the US and do understand that it is the terrorists who are the enemy, not the US. Shiites and Sunnis are not against the US troops. Some of the Iraqis who are may happen to be Shiite or Sunni, but those groups certainly aren't against us. The fact is, the resistance in Iraq is a small minority. Certainly not an uprising.

Your picture implies that all of Iraq looks like that when it is simply not the case. Falluja may have looked like that to some degree and we are teaching them their lesson right now. Terrorism and murder get you now where.

Bottom line: The noble and daring undertaking we are performing in Iraq is progressing and it is very much possible that we will succeed. In fact, if Bush remains our President, I know we will.

[nindracula]

Stillcrazy, I don't think that the patriot act allows the government to screen anybody's email just like that. They have to have a reason to believe you could be up to something devious before they could, so a system that scans every email would be illegal according to the patriot act. That is my understanding of it. Once they suspected you of something, then they could screen your email.

If what you say is indeed possible, it has been possible for years. The patriot act extends powers that the government already had for Mafia and drug-dealers to terrorists. I for one don't think the government can get away with what you said.

Off topic - your avatar is hilarious

[stillcrazy]

Your right, it has been an ability they have had for years. But the Pat Act put a little more broader abilities than what was available before. Mainly in the banking and library areas. There was a department known as TIA, Total Information Awareness, that would in sense be a copy of all current records about every American. this includes buying habits, movie rentals etc and so on.

There is no need for anyone knowing what I read or watch. If my bank account starts showing large deposits of cash, then yes I would expect to be investigated.

But the whole idea that it helps stop drug trafficking or other illegal activities is more smoke and mirrors. We have used these same laws in the so called war on drugs, we are still the number 1 importer of drugs, with very few if any drug king pins in custody. Only users and small time dealers.

[Babs]

I don't think the government does that close a screening either. They have to have reasonable cause to look somebody up or to look into something like you are talking about, stillcrazy. I mean if you are talking about a movie...no. Even the FBI doesn't look into things like you are talking about. If you called the FBI and told them about an individual that looked suspicious to you, they would take your report and question you...but they wouldn't run out and arrest that individual. It just isn't like that. Of course, too, depending on what you said, they might look into it.

It's in the news all the time about the crack down on drug dealers. We are doing a bang-up job there. Borders are tighter, too..."Thank god!"

I'm for shutting down the borders and re-enacting the draft. We have to give our service men and women relief. In terrorist times, doesn't it make sense to shut down the borders? We let the terrorists in and then run around looking for them before they blow us up! Doesn't make sense to me.

Edited April 23, 2004 by Babs

[stillcrazy]

Babs, I agree that the gov. is much too busy to take an e-mail about a movie and make a federal case, at least right now. I don't know how old you are but I have lived through J. Hoover, McCarthyism, Viet Nam, Nixon/Watergate, Reagan/Contra and a bunch of other little 'official' scandals. What I have learned is that power corrupts. Each time this country has enacted laws, some official will use it for personal or poliyical gain. Case in point: Asset Forfeiture laws. On the surface it was a good idea. Go after the property of criminals. But to date less than 65% of asset forefeitures have been tied to convictions. People have lost thier homes cars cash and other items but have not been charged or convicted. Now 65% sounds like a fair number, but if you just apply it to 100 cases, that means 35 people have lost their property without ever having a day in court. This is just an example of official abuse.

I agree that if the PAT act is used as intended, it's a good idea, just like asset forefeiture was a good idea, but history has taught me to be leary of anything the government says will help fight anything.

Bush may or may not follow the PAT Act, But his sidestepping past issues make me feel that if his back is against the wall, he will use the act just as Hoover and Nixon and McCarthy did in their times and with the laws available to them.

[Babs]

You know, if the bombs start dropping, benefit schemes, peoples' civil rights and health care aren't going to mean much. And, most Americans deep down inside know this. That's why Bush will be re-elected in November.

[stillcrazy]

You know, if the bombs start dropping, benefit schemes, peoples' civil rights and health care aren't going to mean much. And, most Americans deep down inside know this. That's why Bush will be re-elected in November.

You are so right.

But I ...............

[nindracula]

I'm going to bed after this post... it's late in Indiana.

re-enacting the draft.

I'm for doing anything that helps the mission get done. If it comes to re-enacting the draft, then it will come to that. That said, I don't think we are anywhere near needing to.

The thing about drugs... they harm no-one but yourself, so perhaps the war on drugs needs to stop. I know alot of money is spent on itBut on the other hand, some drugs are just so nasty and bad for you, that I can't imagine my future children living in a world where that stuff is even more readily available. So yea, I'm split on the issue.

I guess that may be veering a bit off topic though.

Thanks for your support Babs, Sweetpea, stillcrazy and others... I'm happy with the way this discussion went. No personal attacks, and alot of Bush supporters!

[stillcrazy]

Thanks for your support Babs, Sweetpea, stillcrazy and others... I'm happy with the way this discussion went. No personal attacks, and alot of Bush supporters!

While not a big Bush supporter, (I am a republican) But I belong to the anyone but Kerry camp.

There are some of us like babs and others that can discuss a topic without attacking others beliefs and opinions.

[Babs]

It's not just republicans that voted for Bush, democrats did too. People, here, jump parties, depending upon issues and the individual running. This country is solid, united behind Bush. I'm proud to be an American. I didn't vote for Bush in 2000, but you can bet I will be voting for him in November.

[Venomshocker]

Hmmm,this thread is interesting.

I really like Bush. I think hes a pretty good president. Better than anything we have here in Canada. I like his stance on moral issues. Economy wise I think hes done real well for the US. The war in Iraq is dragging out a lil too long, but its good the US has a solid presence in the middleast. That kerry guy dosent sound that great. He seems to be all about job protection. I dont like protectionists. It discourages free trade and globalization. And ultimately can lead too a weak ineffecient economy. When it comes to economics, I defniately believe in survival of the fittest. It keeps pressure on companies to develop, newer, better products. It sucks too lose a job in manufacturing, or progamming, but hey, those are pretty mundane jobs. Why not leave those for third world countries? This way people can get better jobs, in research or something along those lines. So yea I hope Bush wins the next election, and I hope he dosent slap more tariffs, on Canada, or anybody else for that fact.

Edited April 23, 2004 by Venomshocker