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momentarylapseofreason

Working with patients with religious beliefs

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momentarylapseofreason

Have you ever wondered how psychiatrists (who usually hold no religious beliefs or are at best Agnostic/Deist) interact with people of religious faith?

How they deal with demonic possession, mystical states, terminal illness, reported NDE's and it's after-effects etc.

This might be of interest to some:

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/4/287

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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Omnaka

Interesting Post, I Thing the Psychs have Come alongway, From Frued, and electrocuting people who arent Like the rest of society.

How should religious or spiritual problems be assessed? TOP

Abstract

Problems of engagement

Countertransference issues

How should religious or...

Mystical states

Religious delusions

Spirit possession

Religious behaviour or...

Religious ideas in psychotherapy

Psychosexual therapies

Collaboration between...

Conclusions

Multiple choice questions

References

How should psychiatrists classify religious or spiritual problems? A new diagnostic category of religious or spiritual problem (V62.89) has been included in the DSM–IV (American Psychiatric Association, 1994), as part of ‘ Other conditions that may be a focus of clinical attention’, in order to offset the tendency of mental health professionals to ignore or pathologise religious or spiritual problems. This acknowledgement marks a significant breakthrough (Turner et al, 1995).

Common religious problems that may be a focus of clinical attention include questioning and loss of faith, change of religious denomination, conversion to a new religion and intensification of adherence to the beliefs and practices of one’s own faith. Loss or questioning of faith is a common religious problem which may be particularly difficult for patients at an early stage of religious development. These problems should be distinguished from functional psychiatric disorders, although they may lead to psychiatric illness. Their resolution generally requires referral to religious professionals.

One particular form of ‘religious’ conversion is that occurring when a person joins a new religious movement or cult regarded by the public as being oppressive. Although there is little evidence that belonging to such a religious movement is generally detrimental to mental health (Richardson, 1985; Barker, 1996), it appears that leaving one – often by forcible removal – may result in a number of problems, including agitation, panic attacks, nightmares and repetitive chanting, a phenomenon called ‘information disease’. Rarely, religious movements may have extremely detrimental effects on their adherents, even to the extent of pushing them to suicide, as did the Branch Davidians in the USA (Dein & Littlewood, 2000). Bogart (1992) reported on the psychological problems that may arise when a member of a spiritual group separates from his or her spiritual teacher; these include agitation, low mood and nightmares.

Although psychiatrists in the UK may rarely be asked to see members of new religious movements, they need to be aware of the Information Network Focus on Religious Movements (INFORM), a voluntary organisation that provides information about such movements and that can recommend access to counselling services (http://www.inform@lse.ac.uk).

Mystical states TOP

Abstract

Problems of engagement

Countertransference issues

How should religious or...

Mystical states

Religious delusions

Spirit possession

Religious behaviour or...

Religious ideas in psychotherapy

Psychosexual therapies

Collaboration between...

Conclusions

Multiple choice questions

References

Mystical experiences are common in the UK and the USA, with about a third of people reporting them at some stage of their lives (Hay, 1987). These experiences include feelings of unity with the universe and ecstatic states associated with universal love. Although the feelings are transient, they may lead to permanent changes in cognition and lifestyle and may have an integrative function. It is likely that these states are a normal part of brain function. They may occur spontaneously, be induced by drugs or occur during meditation. Not in themselves symptoms of psychiatric disorder, they can occur in pathological states such as temporal lobe epilepsy and in psychosis, when they are usually associated with an elevation of mood. It is important that psychiatrists respect and differentiate unusual but integrating experiences from those that are distressing or disorganising (Gabbard et al, 1982). A negative response to a mystical experience may intensify an individual’s sense of isolation and block his or her efforts to seek assistance in integrating and assimilating the experience. There has been much discussion of the difference between mystical and psychotic states (Clarke, 2001). Generally, there are few problems in differentiating the two phenomena using criteria such as the negative effect on life functioning, loss of volition and loss of insight, which occur in psychosis but not in mystical states (Box 2).

Box 2 Differentiating

I think they are starting to understand and view other methods Of dealing with People who may know more than their Fragile human brain can compute.

There is truly, a reason for not remembering Past lives, and this is one of them.

Love Omnaka

Edited by Omnaka

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momentarylapseofreason
Interesting Post, I Thing the Psychs have Come alongway, From Frued, and electrocuting people who arent Like the rest of society.

I think they are starting to understand and view other methods Of dealing with People who may know more than their Fragile human brain can compute.

There is truly, a reason for not remembering Past lives, and this is one of them.

Love Omnaka

Yeah, I'm not sure if reincarnation happens or not. I keep getting conflicting infos.

They had a real interesting docu series in Germany about it, that made is seem more like it could happen.

this psychiatrist would bring people into a hypnotic state, and then would find these places and families mentioned in the patients past life .

Maybe I'll know some day-maybe not.

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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Michelle

Only 17% of those surveyed listed themselves as having no belief. http://www.physorg.com/news108005993.html

If they feel they aren't qualified for a person's particular problem there are plenty of others to refer them to.

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momentarylapseofreason
Only 17% of those surveyed listed themselves as having no belief. http://www.physorg.com/news108005993.html

If they feel they aren't qualified for a person's particular problem there are plenty of others to refer them to.

Do you mean physicians or psychiatrists ? This is the same link you provided above.

Psychiatrists are the least religious of all physicians

September 3rd, 2007

A nationwide survey of the religious beliefs and practices of American physicians has found that the least religious of all medical specialties is psychiatry. Among psychiatrists who have a religion, more than twice as many are Jewish and far fewer are Protestant or Catholic, the two most common religions among physicians overall.

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The study, published in the September 2007 issue of Psychiatric Services, also found that religious physicians, especially Protestants, are less likely to refer patients to psychiatrists, and more likely to send them to members of the clergy or to a religious counselor.

"Something about psychiatry, perhaps its historical ties to psychoanalysis and the anti-religious views of the early analysts such as Sigmund Freud, seems to dissuade religious medical students from choosing to specialize in this field," said study author Farr Curlin, MD, assistant professor of medicine at the University of Chicago. "It also seems to discourage religious physicians from referring their patients to psychiatrists."

"Previous surveys have documented the unusual religious profile of psychiatry," he said, "but this is the first study to suggest that that profile leads many physicians to look away from psychiatrists for help in responding to patients’ psychological and spiritual suffering."

"Because psychiatrists take care of patients struggling with emotional, personal and relational problems," Curlin said, "the gap between the religiousness of the average psychiatrist and her average patient may make it difficult for them to connect on a human level."

In 2003, to learn about the contribution of religious factors on physicians' clinical practices, Curlin and colleagues surveyed 1,820 practicing physicians from all specialties, including an augmented number of psychiatrists; 1,144 (63%) physicians responded, including 100 psychiatrists.

The survey contained questions about medical specialties, religion, and measures of what the researchers called intrinsic religiosity—the extent to which individuals embrace their religion as the "master motive that guides and gives meaning to their life."

Although 61 percent of all American physicians were either Protestant (39%) or Catholic (22%), only 37 percent of psychiatrists were Protestant (27%) or Catholic (10%). Twenty-nine percent were Jewish, compared to 13 percent of all physicians. Seventeen percent of psychiatrists listed their religion as "none," compared to only 10 percent of all doctors.

Curlin's survey also included this brief vignette, designed to present "ambiguous symptoms of psychological distress" as way measure the willingness of physicians to refer patients to psychiatrists.

"A patient presents to you with continued deep grieving two months after the death of his wife. If you were to refer the patient, to which of the following would you prefer to refer first" (a psychiatrist or psychologist, a clergy member or religious counselor, a health care chaplain, or other)."

Overall, 56 percent of physicians indicated they would refer such a patient to a psychiatrist or psychologist, 25 percent to a clergy member or other religious counselor, 7 percent to a health care chaplain and 12 percent to someone else.

Although Protestant physicians were only half as likely to send the patient to a psychiatrist, Jewish physicians were more likely to do so. Least likely were highly religious Protestants who attended church at least twice a month and looked to God for guidance "a great deal or quite a lot."

"Patients probably seek out, to some extent, physicians who share their views on life’s big questions," Curlin said. That may be especially true in psychiatry, where communication is so essential. The mismatch in religious beliefs between psychiatrists and patients may make it difficult for patients suffering from emotional or personal problems to find physicians who share their fundamental belief systems.

Source: University of Chicago

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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Michelle
Do you mean physicians or psychiatrists ? This is the same link you provided above.

Although 61 percent of all American physicians were either Protestant (39%) or Catholic (22%), only 37 percent of psychiatrists were Protestant (27%) or Catholic (10%). Twenty-nine percent were Jewish, compared to 13 percent of all physicians. Seventeen percent of psychiatrists listed their religion as "none," compared to only 10 percent of all doctors.

This part...

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Lt_Ripley
Although 61 percent of all American physicians were either Protestant (39%) or Catholic (22%), only 37 percent of psychiatrists were Protestant (27%) or Catholic (10%). Twenty-nine percent were Jewish, compared to 13 percent of all physicians. Seventeen percent of psychiatrists listed their religion as "none," compared to only 10 percent of all doctors.

this is about the national average as well.......... yet while 40% or so say they actually go to church on Sundays it was found less than half actually do.

so while people claim to be of a certain faith it doesn't mean they are active with it. for some it's just an automatic response. Ask alot of my family and they will tell you they are christian. church ? only weddings , baptisms and funerals. ( and many skip the church ceremony for weddings and funerals) none of them own a bible yet I do , the agnostic.

I would bet alot of the country is like that ( and alot of those doctors) a habit to answer but nothing that is really followed.

How many people lie about going to religious services?

Various studies in recent years have cast a grave doubt on the 40% value.

Public opinion polls generally do not report real opinions and events. They report only the information that the individuals choose to tell the pollsters. Quite often, their answers will be distorted by a phenomenon called "social desirability bias." Pollees answer questions according to what they think they should be doing, rather than what they are doing. For example, a poll by Barna Research showed that 17% of American adults say that they tithe -- i.e. they give 10 to 13% of their income to their church. Only 3% actually do. 9

The gap between what they do and what they say they do is closer in the case of religious attendance. It is "only" about 2 to 1.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm

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Michelle

I've made that very point many times, Lt. I was just pointing out that there is a huge difference between "psychiatrists usually hold no religious belief" and the numbers being recorded.

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Lt_Ripley
I've made that very point many times, Lt. I was just pointing out that there is a huge difference between "psychiatrists usually hold no religious belief" and the numbers being recorded.

never hurts to post it again. I apologize... I've never seen that post from you. yes more psychiatrists hold no belief.

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Michelle
never hurts to post it again. I apologize... I've never seen that post from you. yes more psychiatrists hold no belief.

I don't know if I've ever used that exact link, but it was the same premise.

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momentarylapseofreason

Almost everyone in Germany is protestant or catholic. They are baptized out of tradition. Yet the churches are empty. My parents were agnostic, baptized protestant but but checked the protestant box off (in Germany) or in hospitals.

Box 1 Antagonism towards religion

Many psychiatrists see religion as:

* primitive

* guilt-inducing

* a form of dependency

* irrational

* having no empirical base

Several studies highlight a ‘religiosity gap’: psychiatrists are often far less religious than their patients (Kroll & Sheehan, 1981; Neeleman & Lewis, 1994). Both the general public and psychiatric patients report themselves to be more religious and to attend church more regularly than mental health professionals (American Psychiatric Association Task Force, 1975). In fact, a Gallup poll in 1985 indicated that a third of the general population in the USA considered religion to be the most important dimension of their lives, and another third considered it to be very important (Gallup, 1986). Keating & Fretz (1990) report evidence that religious individuals are less satisfied with a non-religious clinician than with a religious one.

This is from the same link as posted above.

In Europe they are even less religious

I find this interesting because my girlfriends husband (a shrink) , said it's easier to deal with a person of faith than those without. (unless they are hyper-religious) They can get through tough times more easily. So why are shrinks antagonistic to religion as claimed above ? I never heard of them being antagonistic towards religion

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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Omnaka
Almost everyone in Germany is protestant or catholic. They are baptized out of tradition. Yet the churches are empty. My parents were agnostic, baptized protestant but but checked the protestant box off (in Germany) or in hospitals.

Box 1 Antagonism towards religion

Many psychiatrists see religion as:

* primitive

* guilt-inducing

* a form of dependency

* irrational

* having no empirical base

Several studies highlight a ‘religiosity gap’: psychiatrists are often far less religious than their patients (Kroll & Sheehan, 1981; Neeleman & Lewis, 1994). Both the general public and psychiatric patients report themselves to be more religious and to attend church more regularly than mental health professionals (American Psychiatric Association Task Force, 1975). In fact, a Gallup poll in 1985 indicated that a third of the general population in the USA considered religion to be the most important dimension of their lives, and another third considered it to be very important (Gallup, 1986). Keating & Fretz (1990) report evidence that religious individuals are less satisfied with a non-religious clinician than with a religious one.

This is from the same link as posted above.

In Europe they are even less religious

I find this interesting because my girlfriends husband (a shrink) , said it's easier to deal with a person of faith than those without. (unless they are hyper-religious) They can get through tough times more easily. So why are shrinks antagonistic to religion as claimed above ? I never heard of them being antagonistic towards religion

I know some shrinks, (Friends) And they are very open to learning whats new in their field, There are breakk throughs all the time. makes me want to subscribe to the journal Of medicin.

Love Omnaka

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MissMelsWell

My aunt is a psychiatrist, and a professor at a well known east coast university. She's one of the more religious people I know. She's also in my opinion, kinda nuts herself. lol.

It would be interesting to know what her findings are about this subject... I'll ask her!

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momentarylapseofreason

From Time:

The current fashion for pitting psychiatry and religion against each other as though they were mutually exclusive took a beating on last week's Catholic Hour from a brilliant Roman Catholic convert who is also a distinguished psychiatrist: Karl Stern, author (The Pillar of Fire) and chief of psychiatry at Ottawa General Hospital. The conflict is not necessary or even real, said Dr. Stern, and the appearance of conflict is fostered by fallacies on both sides.

Among the religious, said Dr. Stern, the most common fallacy is: "If there were only more faith in the world, people would not be nearly so neurotic as they are." But, he went on, "I can show you a number of atheists who are happy people and have never known a sleepless night; on the other hand there are many good, even saintly people, in fact some of our great mystics, who are haunted by terrible states of anxiety and melancholia. That formula does not work ... It is also morally wrong."

Another fallacy: "It is surprising how often you hear people remark behind the back of a patient suffering from neurotic anxieties or neurotic mood disorders, 'If he only pulled himself together—surely he could help it!' . . . Nobody would ever think that an abscess of the gall bladder can be treated by pulling oneself together, but not many people are prepared to look at nervous anxiety states with the same attitude . . . Many religious people use towards a neurotic patient a kind of spiritual approach of 'Pull yourself together!' ... By this attitude religion becomes a sort of mental Band-Aid which must not be missing in any well-equipped psychiatric first-aid kit."

For their part, many psychiatrists suffer from an anti-religious bias that is part of the "general positivistic atmosphere of our time," said Dr. Stern—"the belief that science is the only fountain of truth and that revelation is bunk." Some would go so far as to say that scientific progress has made religion obsolete. Others, more moderate, blame religion and its moral codes for causing neurotic anxiety based on feelings of guilt.

Dr. Stern summed up his own position: "The clear distinction between natural and supernatural means of help, which we make in cases of broken legs, must also be made in cases of emotional disturbance." Then, he believes, religion and psychiatry can pull together instead of working at cross purposes.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,866564,00.html

Psychology Today:

Faith in psychiatry

Reports that David Larson has been warned against incorporating religion into his psychiatry practice. Evidence of Larson on the healing effects of religion.

Twenty-five years ago, one of David Larson's med school advisers warned thathe'd harm his patients by incorporating religion into his psychiatry practice. Back then many psychiatrists within the hallowed halls of academic medicine considered religious patients delusional, immature, or neurotic.

Larson has spent nearly two decades trying to prove them wrong. Now a psychiatrist and president of the National Institute for Health Care Research, Larson cites a mound of studies, both his own and others', attesting to the preventive and healing effects of religion. A sampling:

o In a 1995 report on 232 people who underwent elective open-heart surgery, those who received no strength or comfort from religion were more likely to die within six months of the operation.

o A decade-long study of 2,700 people showed that after accounting for risk factors, only one social attribute--increased church attendance--lowered mortality rates.

o Among women recovering from hip fractures, those with stronger religious beliefs and practices were less depressed and could walk further at discharge.

o In a rigorously controlled study of elderly women, the less religious had mortality levels twice that of the faithful.

o A review of 200 epidemiological studies suggests that religion has positive effects on diseases ranging from cervical cancer to stroke.

Provocative, yes. Proof of a cause--effect relationship between religion and health? No. The problem, says Larson, is that psychiatry "has done a pretty badjob of researching the topic." For one thing, studies have ignored crucial factors like the strength of a patient's beliefs. In recent years, however, he and his peers have found meaningful ways to measure faith, including attendance at worship services and involvement in church structure.

Why has psychiatric research been so scant and shallow? For one thing, few psychiatrists are religious. While 90 percent of Americans believe in God, an American Psychiatric Association study found that only 43 percent in the profession do. And almost a third of psychiatrists with religious upbringings now profess to have no religious beliefs.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pt...701-000010.html

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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Meiliken
Have you ever wondered how psychiatrists (who usually hold no religious beliefs or are at best Agnostic/Deist) interact with people of religious faith?

How they deal with demonic possession, mystical states, terminal illness, reported NDE's and it's after-effects etc.

This might be of interest to some:

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/4/287

This one family I knew were mormons. They didn't believe that outside blood should ever be used in their bodies. So in the event that they needed blood given to them, they'll choose death. Rediculous, but I guess not everyone can endorse life as much as others can.

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momentarylapseofreason
This one family I knew were mormons. They didn't believe that outside blood should ever be used in their bodies. So in the event that they needed blood given to them, they'll choose death. Rediculous, but I guess not everyone can endorse life as much as others can.

Well, that's not "pro life" then, is it ?

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Meiliken
Well, that's not "pro life" then, is it ?

Yeah, doesn't seem like it to me either. Life is precious and should be saved if it can be, regardless of the means.

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TheKnight
Have you ever wondered how psychiatrists (who usually hold no religious beliefs or are at best Agnostic/Deist) interact with people of religious faith?

How they deal with demonic possession, mystical states, terminal illness, reported NDE's and it's after-effects etc.

This might be of interest to some:

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/10/4/287

To be quite honest, from what I have experienced with patients of such people, most psychiatrists/psychologists are very bad at dealing with mental illness, emotional instability, emotional illness, and with people in general.

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Irish
This one family I knew were mormons. They didn't believe that outside blood should ever be used in their bodies. So in the event that they needed blood given to them, they'll choose death. Rediculous, but I guess not everyone can endorse life as much as others can.

I think yo meant Jehovah Witness, as I believe the Mormons are OK with blood transfusions along with the majority of Christians ;)

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momentarylapseofreason
I think yo meant Jehovah Witness, as I believe the Mormons are OK with blood transfusions along with the majority of Christians ;)

I never heard of this with Mormons neither-but I thought maybe I didn't know

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