Papa Midnight60 Posted May 5, 2009 Author #226 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I would like to bring some information on the history of Voodoo in Africa for you to read. West Africans believe that "God" created hundreds of voodoo spirits or fetishes, each has supernatural power. Below them are the ancestors and priests. Priests (shamans) are the only humans who can communicate with the voodoo and the dead spirits. The fetishers help the priests in the rites. Each tribe worships a particular voodoo, often in a fetish temple. People make offerings to them to be blessed, such as when they want the birth of twins. They must also appease the evil force, Legba, often represented by a phallus, or bad things will happen. In Benin many believe that Agassou, a fetish of the Dahomey royal family, was born of the union of a woman and a talking animal. A person’s soul can be reincarnated, it can be influenced by the casting of a spell. Each newborn baby is believed to be the reincarnation of a deceased local person. Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 5, 2009 #227 Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) I would like to bring some information on the history of Voodoo in Africa for you to read. West Africans believe that "God" created hundreds of voodoo spirits or fetishes, each has supernatural power. Below them are the ancestors and priests. Priests (shamans) are the only humans who can communicate with the voodoo and the dead spirits. The fetishers help the priests in the rites. Each tribe worships a particular voodoo, often in a fetish temple. People make offerings to them to be blessed, such as when they want the birth of twins. They must also appease the evil force, Legba, often represented by a phallus, or bad things will happen. In Benin many believe that Agassou, a fetish of the Dahomey royal family, was born of the union of a woman and a talking animal. A person’s soul can be reincarnated, it can be influenced by the casting of a spell. Each newborn baby is believed to be the reincarnation of a deceased local person. Papa Excellent thanks for that...it was worth the read....so god creats the spirits.............can I also ask, the high preists, who chooses who gets to become one? I'd like to ask you about their medicine.............IE - tips on how to remain healthy...alternative medicine? if you don't mind listing any...I would apprecaite it thanks papa.... (PS only because I have a keen interest in that stuff also ) Edited May 5, 2009 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted May 5, 2009 #228 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Personally we may not see eye 2 eye on religion, but I give respect where it is due. People here trying to tell you religion is not an important part of your life on a personal level are just angry because life hasn't treated them so well. Same applies to the religious when they try to jab at me for being an atheist. I notice this a lot in this thread, and it makes me kind of puzzled and perplexed as I am sure it does you when people start arguments where they shouldn't. Aside from all of this if people don't like your answers they can get bent... They know who they are. who here has tried to say it isn't important to someone on a personal level ? maybe I missed it. some have said , like myself .. I don't believe in it.. I believe it's superstition ( as are all religions ) but I am just as entitled to my belief as are others ... as are you . and if one doesn't like the comments from others they can get bent as well ... they know who they are. this is about beliefs ........... no where does it say one can't believe otherwise. If I say I believe religion is nothing but superstition that is my belief. If it makes one angry they need to look at their insecurity in their faith. It should be able to handle dissent. If it can't ? the foundation is sandy. I believe in God... yet we have no proof. I've no problem with that and very much agree , we have no proof. even what one experiences can not be proof if there is other answers. Yet I still believe. Many can't believe I do and yet can be honest to admit we have no proof of God... but that is where my faith comes in and it depends on no man made idea of God. It's all me and mine.... as it should be IMO. so there is nothing for me to falter about . I can understand both sides of the argument ... and will defend either and argue either. I applaud a new religious view on the boards... doesn't mean I have to believe it. and it doesn't mean I can't insert my beliefs about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Peter Venkman Posted May 5, 2009 #229 Share Posted May 5, 2009 That would depend on the level of devotion, observance of the fundamental practices and dedication to the rites of which particular sect you follow, for example some believe that they are Christians even though they do not participate in the Eucharistic sacraments, depending on the the individual dictum of the denominations as there is diversity in my faith as there is in others. Some may claim to follow the faith albeit the fact that they do not observe the practice of ritualistic sacrifice but I am not here to cast dispersions on those that do not follow the the precepts of my fundamental faith. Relax my friend have a soybean burger or something. Papa I just had a soy dog. Good stuff, and i'm feelin' cool as a cucumber man. However, you failed to answer my question, yet again. I shall repeat it for you. Did this hypothetical person pay you to cast a spell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1CKY D1AMOND Posted May 5, 2009 #230 Share Posted May 5, 2009 With all due respect, no one has said such a thing, thats just a case of twisting words.... to say religion is man made does not mean its not important, nor does it mean its not real or hold any truth to it.... Whether you believe so or not... The whole thread was headed into a 'Can you prove there is a God'? type of question. They always go this way when people start getting emotional. I wasn't referring to any specific person, and most certainly not you.... You seem to be level headed and well balanced in your opinions and assertions, but your not everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CausticGnostic Posted May 5, 2009 #231 Share Posted May 5, 2009 seems you didn't understand what you were reading... he was upset that I had no respect for the pope and I gave him a reason ( one of many btw ) why... so try getting it right next time. I've read every post on this thread, Ripley. Don't presume to tell me how I should understand things I've read. You aren't qualified. In addition, your side-swipe at Papa Midnight about the Pope (who I don't think much of either, by the way) had nothing to do with Voodoo, which is the topic of this thread. And neither does lesbianism. Personally I don't care what you and anybody else does in the privacy of their own homes. That's what freedom is all about. Give Papa Midnight the same freedom--which is protected by the Constitution. What does being a lesbian have to do with the discussion of Voodoo? If you stay on topic, I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 5, 2009 #232 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Whether you believe so or not... The whole thread was headed into a 'Can you prove there is a God'? type of question. They always go this way when people start getting emotional. I wasn't referring to any specific person, and most certainly not you.... You seem to be level headed and well balanced in your opinions and assertions, but your not everybody. Well I have taken a keen interest in it.....only because this is the 1st time anyone has come to the forum with a different belief, and its nice to keep an open mind so to speak while I am asking papa questions, I am sitting with a web page on voodoo LOL trying to understand it more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Midnight60 Posted May 5, 2009 Author #233 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I have several Parts I am going to tell as a story, Bringing to you a small paragraph at a time so there is no information overload, now I am tired so Papa will be back tomorrow or maybe after a nap. Thanks’ you all for your participation Papa The bois bois dolls sold in the Lomé, Togo, fetish market, are used to harm an enemy, by giving the doll the enemy’s name, then rubbing it with hair, fingernail clippings, feces, an article of clothing, or anything else that was touched by the victim. The sorcerer then sticks pins into the dolls, like sticking nails into the victim. Bois bois dolls are also common in Caribbean countries. In the Marquesas Islands and many other traditional societies a chief or shaman carefully hides, burns, or buries any discarded personal item, including uneaten food and feces, to prevent a sorcerer from using it to get power over him. A powerful man, a sorcerer, is believed in Africa to eat others, just as in Europe some men are more powerful than others. In battles between traditional peoples the body of a dead warrior must be taken to a friendly place, so the enemy won’t get it to eat, or to torment the soul of the dead warrior. Brazil’s huge Ver-O-Peso market in Belem, near the mouth of the Amazon, sells voodoo charms and dried snakes, plus dried alligator and animals skulls, for shamans and others. A macumba voodoo ceremony is held every few nights in Belem. In Senegal’s Ile de Goree, vultures circled overhead when our guide explained that spirits, the macumba, are said to live on the island. West Africa, Brazil, Haiti, and other places with former slaves still have frequent macumba ceremonies. Vultures were first attracted to the Ile de Goree by bodies buried in big hollow baobob trees. Now bodies are buried elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted May 5, 2009 #234 Share Posted May 5, 2009 it seems the majority of the post was just him stating his opinion in general ... to all.... he at the last line addresses 'Papa' , but just for the incidence of self reference. or it could be to the original OP since it is not addressed and not seem to comment to anyone on the same page. but if it makes you feel better to complain .... by all means do. I was not 'complaining', Ripley. More like beating a dead horse. Cheers, Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Midnight60 Posted May 5, 2009 Author #235 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I've read every post on this thread, Ripley. Don't presume to tell me how I should understand things I've read. You aren't qualified. In addition, your side-swipe at Papa Midnight about the Pope (who I don't think much of either, by the way) had nothing to do with Voodoo, which is the topic of this thread. And neither does lesbianism. Personally I don't care what you and anybody else does in the privacy of their own homes. That's what freedom is all about. Give Papa Midnight the same freedom--which is protected by the Constitution. What does being a lesbian have to do with the discussion of Voodoo? If you stay on topic, I will. Well I was going to bed but just had to say, well put CG, I read your profile you are a man or reason and education. A very impressive resume Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 5, 2009 #236 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Well I was going to bed Look forward to more of your knowledge tomorrow...thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted May 5, 2009 #237 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I have a question .... what, if any . are the parallels between what you believe and 'witch doctors' like in Africa where "Bishop" Sunday Ulup-Aya was arrested ? I take it he's an extreme case ? but things like this .......... In hiding for exposing Tanzania witchdoctors http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7523796.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted May 5, 2009 #238 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Becky's Mom: Theologically, in the Catholic Eucharist the wine and host don't "represent" the blood and body of Jesus in some figurative sense; but rather, through the miracle of transubstantiation in that sacrament, they become and metaphysically ARE the blood and body of Jesus (at least, according to Catholic theology). At the Last Supper, the disciples were shocked by Jesus' choice of metaphors, because it not only suggested that his death was a human sacrifice but also framed the remembrance meal as a type of cannibalism. ~~~ ... An accurate description of the RC Eucharist, CausticG -- surprising how many people (even Catholics) think that these are symbols only. Regards, Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted May 5, 2009 #239 Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) I've read every post on this thread, Ripley. Don't presume to tell me how I should understand things I've read. You aren't qualified. In addition, your side-swipe at Papa Midnight about the Pope (who I don't think much of either, by the way) had nothing to do with Voodoo, which is the topic of this thread. And neither does lesbianism. Personally I don't care what you and anybody else does in the privacy of their own homes. That's what freedom is all about. Give Papa Midnight the same freedom--which is protected by the Constitution. What does being a lesbian have to do with the discussion of Voodoo? If you stay on topic, I will. he asked about respect ....... maybe you should reread it all. he asked why I didn't respect the pope .. that is where the lesbian part comes in ... you really didn't understand. try here ... where it started .. http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...t&p=2871445 and here (Papa Midnight60 @ May 4 2009, 01:54 AM) * I have not once asked you "buy it" do not care what you do or believe, I do not come here recruiting anyone, I came to post here on my fully recognized religion. I said I was only here to help with the prejudiced surrounding Voodoo, a few pages back you welcomed my point now you get uptight and defensive. I am selling nothing. You even mock your Pope, that is disrespect way worse than my sacrifice ceremonies. I have come here mocking not one person. , The Pope is a well respected religious Icon of America even if you do not believe the way he does I see no reason to disrespect this figure of the Catholics and btw Voodoo is mixed with Catholicism, having your opinion is one thing and I do agree everyone is entitled to it. BUT to have respect shows greater personal growth and great Character. IMO. Papa 1. he's not my pope... I'm not christian . 2. why should the pope have my respect ? respect is earned it isn't given. The pope has not earned my respect. I haven't mocked you ... I disagree , don't believe ... but haven't mocked. I stated how I felt ... not how you should feel. yes you posted your religion. not everyone will agree with it. that is the nature of these forums. so far nothing said about lesbianism ... and again ................ (Papa Midnight60 @ May 4 2009, 02:24 AM) * Papa is very psychic, so I know what your going to say before you say it..original.gif I did not say he was "your "Pope. He is the Catholics Pope, and connected t my religion in a way. Stating what you said about his shoes is mocking him, you said he had funny shoes, I rather like them and Gucci is very expensive. Everyone deserves respect, let me ask you this, How do you mean the Pope has not earned your respect? You are mocking me when you call my religion superstition. I don’t need you to lecture me on forums, I do not expect many to agree, I will state this for you one more time, I came here to "Talk" about Voodoo as a religion. Period. Papa ( and yes he said 'your' pope ... ) then what am I thinking now ?? no ... no one deserves respect . Respect is earned. period. Lot's of people respected Hitler. As a lesbian , most religions , the pope .... have not earned my respect. that is self explanatory. I think and believe your religion and others are superstition in so much as they box God in with man made rules and ideals . that is my belief and I'm entitled to it. Just as your entitled to believe it isn't. If you can't deal with that then why post ? Did you expect nothing but followers and loving responses ? that's naive. and arrogant. I applaud you posting to give a view of a different belief , that doesn't mean I have to believe it's real . This post has been edited by Lt_Ripley: Today, 12:51 PM this is where it comes up ... because he kept pushing why don't I respect my pope ... like I said ... you didn't read it correctly. Edited May 5, 2009 by Lt_Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CausticGnostic Posted May 5, 2009 #240 Share Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) I was not 'complaining', Ripley. More like beating a dead horse. Cheers, Karlis So, what? I'm the "dead horse"? Gee, thanks, Karlis. I don't even know you and you're insulting me. And, just to get his out in the open, I answered your question about why I used the Quick Reply function. If there's something wrong with using that function to reply to the OP, I'd like to know what it is. Moreover, just to be clear on this point, if you ever try to beat me, I'll stomp your ***. Edited May 5, 2009 by CausticGnostic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Peter Venkman Posted May 5, 2009 #241 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Okay, so what we've been derailed to so far is that Dr. Pete Venkman is a vegetarian, so he doesn't like killing animals (although apparently, and contradictorily) he has nothing against us meat-eaters, just something against anaimal sacrifice; and Lt. Ripley is concerned that somehow Voodoo isn't deserving of respect because it doesn't champion the cause of lesbianism. Jesus Christ! Where's the freakin' Sikh dude?! I thought the thread was more on track when he was spewing his bilge! Papa Midnight, welcome the hell to UM, where everybody gets chewed up, no matter what the post was about! My issue with animal sacrifice has nothing to do with my being a vegetarian. Like I said earlier that's a personal choice man. I really don't have a problem with people that do eat meat. Follow my words EAT meat. Not Sacrifice an animal because some one payed him to cast a spell for them, if that is indeed the case. I don't even really have a problem with that. I'm just curious as to if it's necessarry to the practice of his religion, which he answered for me. My other question was whether or not he considered doin so to be selfish. He answered that too, and we agreed to disagree. Now we're at the point of whether or not he casts spells for money? Are ya followin' me camera guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Midnight60 Posted May 5, 2009 Author #242 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I just had a soy dog. Good stuff, and i'm feelin' cool as a cucumber man. However, you failed to answer my question, yet again. I shall repeat it for you. Did this hypothetical person pay you to cast a spell? Why would papa cast a spell on a hypothetical person? Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Peter Venkman Posted May 5, 2009 #243 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Why would papa cast a spell on a hypothetical person? Papa You know what I meant. do you cast spells for money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted May 5, 2009 #244 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Why would papa cast a spell on a hypothetical person? Papa Night night papa...i'll look forward to more of your posts tomorrow...it is getting late over in my end of the world too lol....but again thanks for what you have posted so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Midnight60 Posted May 5, 2009 Author #245 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I consider myself a student of religion, and for many years I taught it at the undergraduate level. So, I'm interested in your view of your religion. In addition, Papa, I have no religion of my own or hidden axes to grind to get in the way of listening to what you have to say. Just say what you want to say, man. I'm listening, even if other people are more interested in listening to themselves. hehe Seems to be the case in several replys! Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Ripley Posted May 5, 2009 #246 Share Posted May 5, 2009 You know what I meant. do you cast spells for money? lol ... don't ever ask about the business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted May 5, 2009 #247 Share Posted May 5, 2009 So, what? I'm the "dead horse"? Gee, thanks, Karlis. I don't even know you and you're insulting me.You mean it was your post I quoted in B's Mom's thread on 'signing posts'? Gee, sorry CausticG -- I did not know that! ... and, I did not mean the post was a "dead horse" -- I meant the signature thread. And, just to get his out in the open, I answered your question about why I used the Quick Reply function. If there's something wrong with using that function to reply to the OP, I'd like to know what it is. ...Ahem -- as surprising as it may be, during my time on UM I have never used the 'Quick Reply' function. ~~~ You mean that function quotes a post without including a link??? If that's so, I'm glad I have never used it. So, just to check that out (for my personal education) I will use that function on my next reply. Thanks for this info, my friend (if it is as I think I understand that function now }. Moreover, just to be clear on this point, if you ever try to beat me, I'll stomp your ***.If you are a horse, and your hoofs are shod, I'll make sure to never to get near your legs. Regards, Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CausticGnostic Posted May 5, 2009 #248 Share Posted May 5, 2009 My issue with animal sacrifice has nothing to do with my being a vegetarian. Like I said earlier that's a personal choice man. I really don't have a problem with people that do eat meat. Follow my words EAT meat. Not Sacrifice an animal because some one payed him to cast a spell for them, if that is indeed the case. I don't even really have a problem with that. I'm just curious as to if it's necessarry to the practice of his religion, which he answered for me. My other question was whether or not he considered doin so to be selfish. He answered that too, and we agreed to disagree. Now we're at the point of whether or not he casts spells for money? Are ya followin' me camera guy? Okay, Dr. V. I was not only a little miffed, I was pretty drunk when I posted that. But I want to hear what Papa Midnight has to say about this most misunderstood of religions. So, if I offended you, or misunderstood you, Dr. V, I apologize. Can we now allow Papa Midnight to present his information about the Voodoun religion without diverting it to complaints about dead animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted May 5, 2009 #249 Share Posted May 5, 2009 So -- this is the Quick/Fast reply post? Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted May 5, 2009 #250 Share Posted May 5, 2009 So -- this is the Quick/Fast reply post? Karlis And this is how it posts when I reply to it? Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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