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Is there a path to wisdom?


coberst

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Is there a path to wisdom?

How can I know what I do not know? How can I trace that boundary between knowledge and ignorance?

In the dialogue “Apology” Plato writes about Socrates while in the dungeon just before drinking the hemlock that the citizens of Athens condemned him to be executed.

In the dungeon shortly before drinking from the hemlock cup Socrates spoke to his followers. He spoke about the accusations against him at the trial. He said that the sworn indictment against him was “Socrates is guilty of needless curiosity and meddling interference, inquiring into things beneath Earth and in the Sky…”

Socrates further adds that he is accused of teaching the people of Athens, to which Socrates vehemently denies that he is a teacher. He points out that in matters of wisdom he has only a small piece of that territory; the wisdom that he does have is the wisdom not to think he knows what he does not know. Socrates conjectures that he has the wisdom to recognize the boundary of his present knowledge and to search for that knowledge that he does not have. “So it seems at any rate I am wiser in this one small respect: I do not think I know what I do not.”

For Socrates a necessary component of wisdom is to comprehend what one is ignorant of.

Am I wise? Do I know what I am ignorant of? I certainly know that I am ignorant of astronomy and music. There are many things about which it is obvious to me that I am ignorant of. Are there things about which I am not even aware of my ignorance? Are there matters about which I think I am knowledgeable of but which I am, in fact, ignorant of?

When I ask myself these questions I become conscious of a great number of things about which I am ignorant. Does this mean I am like Socrates in this matter? I do not think so. Socrates is speaking about two types of ignorance about which most people are unconscious of.

I think that Socrates is speaking of our ‘burden of illusion’. People are unconscious of the superficiality of much that they think they know and they are unconscious of a vast domain of knowledge that is hidden from the non critical thinker.

The uncritical mind has no means for discovering these illusions. CT (Critical Thinking) is the keystone for discovering these illusions. The Catch-22 here is how can one develop a critical mind when they are deluded into thinking they have a critical mind?

When our educational system has not taught our citizens how to think critically how can our citizens ever pull themselves out of this deep hole of illusion?

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble; it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so”—Mark Twain

coberstakaDutchuncle

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Recently I posted a legend that was taught to me in which, the conclusion formed regarding possessions by demons (like in the movie Exorcist). Is the result not of some demon which has somehow escaped Hell and is terrifying poor human but rather, a very terrestrial parasite. This very small animal makes his way to the brain where it attaches itself and begins feeding. Certain chemicals in the brain is what it can metabolize while others are in fact poisonous, so by some means (probably by releasing some of its own chemicals) the human brain reacts, by engaging in the behaviors, consistent with what is often referred to as demon possessions.

Remove the parasite and the only thing that has changed is that the person is no longer afflicted but these behaviors which, are often defined under the context of being paranormal are inherent to the human, not the

Parasite. Being "possessed by a demon" causes death and what the exorcist does essentially is create a condition in which the brain generates other chemicals which are poisonous to the parasite. S/he does this by taking the persons mind off the effect cause by the parasite. Today we know of one parasite that actually is very difficult to treat using modern methods the idea that one or two exist which can defy modern forma of treatment is not absurd. If correct this means that what we understand as paranormal abilities is inherent, the question now being how to develop this without vomiting pea soup and insisting that what is bad about our religions; that in Hell some can get out and when they do, they terrify people.

When looking at distribution patterns as well as identifying familial patterns with respect to the allegations those individuals can be possessed by humans? It is apparent that the cause could potentially be some kind of parasite.

Beyond this I am of the opinion that each of us are a part of some very elaborate and complex puzzle. We each have our own individual path to wisdom and to achieve this state requires focus.

Any thoughts?

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Is there a path to wisdom?

Yes, but you'd be a fool to take it.

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In the summer of 48 my older brother told me that if I wanted to play high school football I had to ‘get ready’. In his terms, ‘getting ready’ meant running to get in condition for the rigors of football practice.

In the spring of 09 I want to begin the quest for wisdom. How do I ‘get ready’ for becoming wise?

Starting with the definition of wisdom as “seeing life whole” seems to be as good a place to begin as I can think of. How do I get ready to see life whole?

It seems to me that to see life whole I must learn a great deal more than I already have learned but I must start with where I presently am. I am convinced that learning new stuff requires three aspects (a position facing a particular direction) of mind; mentally I must have curiosity, caring, and an orderly mind.

I claim that curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for understanding. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing. I will not examine a matter for the purpose of understanding it unless I am curious about it. I must care enough about the matter to do the intellectual work necessary to understand.

Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.

Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.

Questions for consideration:

Is caring necessary for understanding? I think so.

What is ‘understanding’?

Is curiosity necessary for knowing? I think so.

Is curiosity necessary for understanding? I think so.

Is a knowledge of history required to ‘see life whole’? Absolutely!!

Is difficulty our duty? I think so.

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Does Winston Churchill qualify as a good example of a man of wisdom? Definitely!

I think that there are at least three forms of intellection: textual intellection is what we do when we reason in text form, artistic intellection is reasoning in artistic form, and practical intellection is what we do in our day-to-day living.

I think that one must acquire a significant degree of understanding in each of these three forms of intellection to qualify for the distinction of “seeing life whole”.

Winston was an accomplished painter, he was a historian with many books to his credit and he was accomplished broadly in practical intellection as he demonstrated in his political career.

I claim that curiosity and caring are necessary conditions for understanding. Understanding is a far step beyond knowing. I will not examine a matter for the purpose of understanding it unless I am curious about it. I must care enough about the matter to do the intellectual work necessary to understand.

Understanding is a step beyond knowing and is seldom required or measured by schooling. Understanding is generally of disinterested knowledge, i.e. disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic (due to the nature of the self) value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application.

Understanding is often difficult and time consuming and the justification is not extrinsic (outside cause) but intrinsic.

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Understanding history in relation to developing wisdom is important. There is of course the issue of who wrote the history, the fact that certain events in history are not necessarily public or actually known and that meaning can and is subject to variations in relation to any particular cultural interpretation. The ability to discern realistically to me is probably what is most important as well as not taking yourself too seriously

Any thoughts?

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I think that there is a distinct difference between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is the symbolic representation of understanding. Understanding itself is not symbolic. Wisdom is the practical ability to use understanding.

The brain is a complicated set of independent but related functions. Understanding is wordless. It is based upon impressions, images and feelings. Knowledge is bassed upon symbolic representations. Wisdom will lead to enlightenment. Knowledge will not.

The path to wisdom is to refine the process for representing knowledge so that it is secondary to and a function of the process for gaining wisdom. This alone will put the mind in the proper balance. Then it can focus energy upon understanding and, therefore, wisdom and not knowledge. This is the answer.

Edited by PerVirtuous
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Yes and wisdom is denotes the ability to think critically ... not just absorb data.

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Yes and wisdom is denotes the ability to think critically ... not just absorb data.

Absolutely, and not linearly either. Good points.

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Why is it that some folks,

when they talk about going to Heaven,

they do not mention sitting down and talking to God.

Any thoughts?

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Why is it that some folks,

when they talk about going to Heaven,

they do not mention sitting down and talking to God.

Any thoughts?

That would be something.

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Why is it that some folks,

when they talk about going to Heaven,

they do not mention sitting down and talking to God.

Any thoughts?

Why would you think God would want to talk to you?

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A path to wisdom, there are probably many.

However, I do think it helpful to apply some criteria.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." ~The Dalai Lama~

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Is there a path to wisdom?

coberstakaDutchuncle

I guess there is(?) We just got to watch out we don't get side tracked and lost along the way.

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If nothing is Perfect, how can practice make One Perfect...

Do we stick with our practice??? No...

So Welcome back.. (very lazy to use even 6% of mind) :)

Edited by =Jak=
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Recently I posted a legend that was taught to me in which, the conclusion formed regarding possessions by demons (like in the movie Exorcist). Is the result not of some demon which has somehow escaped Hell and is terrifying poor human but rather, a very terrestrial parasite. This very small animal makes his way to the brain where it attaches itself and begins feeding. Certain chemicals in the brain is what it can metabolize while others are in fact poisonous, so by some means (probably by releasing some of its own chemicals) the human brain reacts, by engaging in the behaviors, consistent with what is often referred to as demon possessions.

Remove the parasite and the only thing that has changed is that the person is no longer afflicted but these behaviors which, are often defined under the context of being paranormal are inherent to the human, not the

Parasite. Being "possessed by a demon" causes death and what the exorcist does essentially is create a condition in which the brain generates other chemicals which are poisonous to the parasite. S/he does this by taking the persons mind off the effect cause by the parasite. Today we know of one parasite that actually is very difficult to treat using modern methods the idea that one or two exist which can defy modern forma of treatment is not absurd. If correct this means that what we understand as paranormal abilities is inherent, the question now being how to develop this without vomiting pea soup and insisting that what is bad about our religions; that in Hell some can get out and when they do, they terrify people.

When looking at distribution patterns as well as identifying familial patterns with respect to the allegations those individuals can be possessed by humans? It is apparent that the cause could potentially be some kind of parasite.

Beyond this I am of the opinion that each of us are a part of some very elaborate and complex puzzle. We each have our own individual path to wisdom and to achieve this state requires focus.

Any thoughts?

The lipoprotein that covers each cell in your body vibrates at 10^11 Hertz. A parasite vibrates at around 30,000 Hertz. One parasite does not make much discomfort. A little skin tag won't hurt you, but you multiply that skin tag by hundreds or thousands, then comes a discomfort and the body starts reacting to it by sending its attack cells. It is not the parasite that defies the treatment. If the parasite completely overtakes the cell, the parasite then has the protection of the cell. Your body can destroy any kind of parasite that enters it if you have a good immune system.

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Why is it that some folks,

when they talk about going to Heaven,

they do not mention sitting down and talking to God.

Any thoughts?

Gd isnt always percieved as a figure you can talk to, he's not necessarily a 'dude in the sky.' Perhaps in heaven one simply becomes part of Gds essence, there is no need to talk to him because you are part of him and have already assumed the wealth of wisdom once you have died and your soul is no longer limited by the mechanics of the human body.

If nothing is Perfect, how can practice make One Perfect...

Are wisdom and perfection the same thing???

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Are wisdom and perfection the same thing???

wisdom/knowledge...... when you fulfill know as perfect.

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greggK.....

There are known parasites which presently require about a month to get out of our systems with proper medical care (it consumes muscle). There are others which respond better to medical care but access to such medications in many parts of the world is limited. Parasites can be very large there is for example the intestinal parasite that can literally become slightly larger than a humans or animals intestinal track.

Wyvernkeeper.......

There is no reason to understand that it is possible to have a simple conversation with God and I do not feel it has anything to do with some "dude in the sky." The question of complexity from our standpoint is probably not applicable to a being capable of creating this Universe.

Any thoughts?

PS: True perfection does not exist without the imperfect for only then does one encompass all things.

Edited by Triad
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Eh, lots of interesting posts. Mine is short.

Yes, there is a path to wisdom, just no shortcuts.

HN

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Eh, lots of interesting posts. Mine is short.

Yes, there is a path to wisdom, just no shortcuts.

HN

Do explain, I want to avoid as many pot holes as I can...

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Do explain, I want to avoid as many pot holes as I can...

lol. Can't do it. The potholes are part of the path.

HN

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Gd isnt always percieved as a figure you can talk to, he's not necessarily a 'dude in the sky.' Perhaps in heaven one simply becomes part of Gds essence, there is no need to talk to him because you are part of him and have already assumed the wealth of wisdom once you have died and your soul is no longer limited by the mechanics of the human body.

Agreed, I no longer think of God as a person or being really.

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Agreed, I no longer think of God as a person or being really.

Well, I think God has a form because we were created 'in His image.'

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