Who are the 144,000 spoken of in Revelation?

[Siara]

I personally think the large numbers quoted in predictions like this are a poetic way of saying "many". In this case the point (I think) is that all 12 tribes will be equally represented and the end result will have an ambiance of perfection and completion. I don't think they're saying that when 143998 people have made it there will be only two places left. There was probably also a numerological significance to 144000. I think that speaking in a poetic manner was a way of indicating respect for the subject matter in general.

When you read ancient accounts of battles they often have a number of deaths that exceeds the total human population of the world at the time. This isn't because the scribes were lying. It's a poetic way of saying it was an important event.

[Blink4567]

I know this is kind of off topic yall! But i was wondering if anyone knew what tribe abraham was from, or descened from?

[+Link of Hyrule]

I know this is kind of off topic yall! But i was wondering if anyone knew what tribe abraham was from, or descened from?

Hi Jessem,

Abraham was from none of the Tribes. He was the father of all of the tribes. God came to Abraham and promised to him that his descendants would be countless in number. Abraham then gave birth to Isaac, who then had 12 children who became the main figure in each of the 12 tribes' history (some minor historical noteworthy discussion about Jacob and his children, but that's not really important to the question you asked).

Hope that helps

Regards, PA

Edited May 25, 2009 by Paranoid Android

[Karlis]

I know this is kind of off topic yall! But i was wondering if anyone knew what tribe abraham was from, or descened from?

Jessem, this question comes up quite often and the answer can sound confusing.

Abraham was a ‘Hebrew’. From Abraham’s children descended the twelve tribes of Israel. In the very early Biblical times these twelve tribes were one nation, or ‘one Kingdom’, which eventually split into two Kingdoms, one of which today is known as ‘Jews’ (in very simplified terms and words).

Abraham was also the father of Ishmael.

From Ishmael descended most (if not all) the nations which today we know as ‘Arabs’.

Interestingly, the word ‘Hebrew’ was derived from Eber – the first Hebrew -- who descended from Shem (Bible history).

It’s worth noting that at that time neither Jews nor Israelites had come into being. Gets complicated, does it not?

Unfortunately, people tend to confuse the terms ‘Jews’ and ‘Israel’.

Jews are from the tribe of Judah, and are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. In a way it’s very much like saying that all Texans are Americans, but not all Americans are Texans.

Interesting history,

Karlis

Edited May 25, 2009 by Karlis

[Bluefinger]

Revelation speaks of 144,000 true believers in the end times, who have the seal of the Lamb's father in their forehead. They are taken away before the end comes.

Many people claim that these people will be the TRUE Christians in the endtimes.

But there are millions of people who think that they are these people. So who are the 144,000 people lucky enough to be saved from the end of the world?

-Josh

I think that they are a minority of people who were always faithful because God had chose them. They are called 'the remnant.'

"For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness." -Isaiah 10:22

"And there will be a highway from Assyria for the remnant that remains of his people, as there was for Israel when they came up from the land of Egypt." Isaiah 11:16

"Listen to me, O house of Jacob, all the remnant of the house of Israel, who have been borne by me from before your birth, carried from the womb;" Isaiah 46:3

"and the lame I will make the remnant, and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the Lord will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and forevermore." - Micah 4:7

"But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as in the former days, declares the Lord of hosts. But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as in the former days, declares the Lord of hosts." - Zechariah 8:11-12

"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace." - Romans 11:5

Notice, that the tribes aren't the same as the tribes blessed by Jacob and Moses. Ephraim isn't in there. Dan isn't either. I read in a book, that if you put the meanings of their names in order, you get a message of God's grace.

I really think that these are the minority who relied solely on God's grace and did not consider themselves holy by the sanctification of religiocity or religious institutions.

[Karlis]

I think that they are a minority of people who were always faithful because God had chose them. They are called 'the remnant.'

"For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness." -Isaiah 10:22

"And there will be a highway from Assyria for the remnant that remains of his people, as there was for Israel when they came up from the land of Egypt." Isaiah 11:16

"Listen to me, O house of Jacob, all the remnant of the house of Israel, who have been borne by me from before your birth, carried from the womb;" Isaiah 46:3

"and the lame I will make the remnant, and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the Lord will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and forevermore." - Micah 4:7

"But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as in the former days, declares the Lord of hosts. But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as in the former days, declares the Lord of hosts." - Zechariah 8:11-12

Bluefinger, imo the above Scriptures are partial prophecies about the yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy concerning the physical 'tribes' of Israel, aka 'house of Judah and house of Israel' *after the return of Jesus*

These tribes of Israel will be regathered back in their promised land, and God will make a new covenant with those mortal peoples of Israel, as per the following Scriptures:

Jer 31:27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

Jer 31:28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will

I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.

Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that

I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32

Not according to

the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33

But this shall be the covenant

that I will make

with the house of Israel;

After those days, saith the LORD,

I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And

they shall teach no more every man his neighbour,

and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:

for they shall all know me,

from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:...

"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace." - Romans 11:5

Notice, that the tribes aren't the same as the tribes blessed by Jacob and Moses. Ephraim isn't in there. Dan isn't either. I read in a book, that if you put the meanings of their names in order, you get a message of God's grace.

I really think that these are the minority who relied solely on God's grace and did not consider themselves holy by the sanctification of religiocity or religious institutions.

As for Romans 11:5 -- that is not talking about the physical nation of Israel, but is talking about converted peoples of all nations, during all generations.

Just my thoughts,

Karlis

[80's Baby]

The 144,000 are the only ones who are actually chosen to go to heaven. Everyone else in God's favor has a chance at resurrection and endless life in a new perfect world (on this earth).

[Bluefinger]

Bluefinger, imo the above Scriptures are partial prophecies about the yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy concerning the physical 'tribes' of Israel, aka 'house of Judah and house of Israel' *after the return of Jesus*

These tribes of Israel will be regathered back in their promised land, and God will make a new covenant with those mortal peoples of Israel, as per the following Scriptures:

Jer 31:27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

Jer 31:28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will

I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.

Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that

I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32

Not according to

the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33

But this shall be the covenant

that I will make

with the house of Israel;

After those days, saith the LORD,

I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;

and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And

they shall teach no more every man his neighbour,

and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:

for they shall all know me,

from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:...

As for Romans 11:5 -- that is not talking about the physical nation of Israel, but is talking about converted peoples of all nations, during all generations.

Just my thoughts,

Karlis

Agreed. There is obviously a distinction between the people of Israel and the Church. I think that this is why there is a distinction between the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel and the countless multitude of peoples from every nation, language, and tongue. If we think about it, apart from God's grace, the nation of Israel would have never been established. Ironically, it was the same Church influence that supplanted Israel that also reestablished the nation of Israel; those called by God's grace were also called to be vessels of that grace to those who had given it up. It's just like how Jacob sent blessings ahead of himself to Esau even though Esau had given up his birthright to Jacob. Interesting.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Bluefinger

[MARAB0D]

I know this is kind of off topic yall! But i was wondering if anyone knew what tribe abraham was from, or descened from?

He was a nomad from the Eastern side of Jordan river. As such he most likely had mixed Semitic and Hittite roots, or just Semitic roots. "Hebrew" comes from "Semitic "ibrim" which means "the other side", the name Europe comes from the same root as for the semitic Phoenicians it was located on "another side" of Mediterranean. Even the Hellenic legend of Europe, crossing Hellespont on the bull is of Phoenician origin, and the bull means their ships, as they were worshiping Bull (Apis, later Jupiter).

"Abram" is just "ibrim" or "hebrew", this became his nickname after he crossed Jordan with his cattle, as for his real birth name, Bible does not mention it. He was just called "the guy from opposite bank", and after him the family started to be called Hebrews.

[archangel_josh]

The 144,000 are the only ones who are actually chosen to go to heaven. Everyone else in God's favor has a chance at resurrection and endless life in a new perfect world (on this earth).

This is the most concise answer that I've found as yet! Thankyou for this. This totally makes sense. The chosen are taken away.....however when it comes time to resurrect those who deserve it (according to their deeds) this will take place AFTER the world has ended.

Interesting!

Are we amongst them perhaps?!

[MrToft]

Revelation speaks of 144,000 true believers in the end times, who have the seal of the Lamb's father in their forehead. They are taken away before the end comes.

Many people claim that these people will be the TRUE Christians in the endtimes.

But there are millions of people who think that they are these people. So who are the 144,000 people lucky enough to be saved from the end of the world?

-Josh

Greetings.

There are indeed many theories on this subject. Please allow me to share with you one I have found makes at least some sence.

144.000 is the number of enlightened souls, or humans that live without fear, it takes to shift the state of consciousness for aproximately 7 billion people on a planet such as this. Meaning that when the number of humans that achieve enlightenment and exist simultanieusely on earth, there wil be a shift in the collective mind, towards a greater state of love and compassion. A new paradigm it is said.

Given many other sources, that correspond with this information, I feel that this would make sence. But any and all input is offcourse welcome. This is a subject I find interesting. But I have not been to the bottom of it as thuroughly as many other fields.

[eclectic 1]

According to The Bible, the 144,000 are all post rapture, male, Jewish, Israeli, virgins who can name their tribe. That means that none of them are past, or currently living, Jehovah's Witnesses.