Is evolution evidence of a designer?

[bathory]

and why is death a dirty word? as it is, death is a big part of all religions because as it stands, we all die:)

[trublvr]

and why is death a dirty word? as it is, death is a big part of all religions because as it stands, we all die:)

In the human experience we tend to enjoy life, and even when we do not, we take a stab at making it better. We all do this (whether we're religious or not) b/c we know that death is inevitable, and we know that it can come at any point. While we have come to terms w/ the reality of death, we're still not totally resigned to it.

It is obvious that death is one of the great equalizers for all human beings, and as such it is a major concern (in one way or another) of every religion. My own religious beliefs aside, I was not trying to deal w/ the qualitative value of death from a strictly religious standpoint; mainly I was looking at it from a universal, human standpoint. From the standpoint of human experience, different people-groups may differ in their levels of acceptance/non-acceptance of death's reality, but universally we try to avoid it. A system in wh/ a deity has employed the evolutionary process to bring about (create?) a life-giving, life-sustaining world is bound up w/ death. I'm asking what such a deity would look like. Now, how we should behave toward such a deity is a different question, but one that we'll have to deal w/.

[Seraphina]

Now, how we should behave toward such a deity is a different question, but one that we'll have to deal w/.

To be honest...no it's not. As I've already attempted to explain to you, since you believe there was nothing in the universe before God applied his hand, then that means you must accept that your god therefore created everything that exists. This must, therefore, include death and suffering.

The question of "how we should react" to a god who kills people through a finate lifespan, and one who kills people by acts of genocide, might be a relevant one, but I think you're casting the evil eye on the wrong diety

[trublvr]

The question of "how we should react" to a god who kills people through a finate lifespan, and one who kills people by acts of genocide, might be a relevant one, but I think you're casting the evil eye on the wrong diety

Seraphina, what in the world are you talking about? In my first post on this thread I started w/ the following point:

Okay, so could evolution be proof of a god (not necessarily the Judeo-Christian one)?

I am suspending my own disbelief in evolution temporarily so that I might be able to imagine exactly the scenario that this thread is addressing: Could the evolutionary process be proof of a deity? As I have said before in previous posts, intrinsic to true dialogue is the willingness on everyone's part to temporarily suspend their own beliefs for the purpose of seeing where someone else stands. Here, I am putting forth questions and thoughts about what the evolutionary process would say about a deity who employs evolution in the creation and maintainance of the world. B/c death is a central part of the evolutionary hypothesis I was proposing that we think through the implications this would have for the way we'd view this hypothetical deity and the human condition.

In addition to suspending my disbelief in evolution, I am also suspending my own belief in the Judeo-Christian God for the sake of exploring this issue (you seemed to miss this point as well). Clearly, you paid little attention to the content of what I posted. Knowing that I am a Christian, you mere saw the word "god" as assumed that you knew where I was going with things. Please afford me the courtesy of reading what I say, instead of merely jumping to conclusions about where you think I'm going with things.

As far as your remarks about some bloodthirsty deity (not mine) are concerned, I was not trying to get into issues of God's pro-active taking of life (wh/ you ignorantly confuse w/ things like genocide). I was addressing death solely in terms of the evolutionary process! I said as much in my posts. You and I have gone round and round about God's taking of life in another thread, and we can't get anywhere b/c of some foundational philosophical world-view differences that we can't agree on. If you want to continue our dialogue about that, then let's do it there; I am more than capable.

Y'know, fanaticism is as unbecoming for an atheist as it is for a person of faith. Even if you don't agree with the standpoint of persons of faith, it would behoove you to listen to what they may bring to the table. Peace to you.

Edited May 6, 2004 by trublvr

[Venomshocker]

must accept that your god therefore created everything that exists. This must, therefore, include death and suffering.

Ok, now your really taking it too far.

If you create a machine, that creates a car, did you create the car?? No! The machine did. If you create a program that spits out random numbers, are you creating every 'supposed' random number, or is the program?? If God creates humans with choice, and they do evil, did God create that evil, or did the human 'create' it??

God created the material universe, and people. He did not create the choices they were gonna make. God didnt design things to suffer continuously. I believe God did create death, for living things, because its a good thing. If nothing ever died, this earth couldnt sustain itself. Thus death is a good thing.

[bathory]

If God creates humans with choice, and they do evil, did God create that evil, or did the human 'create' it??

God didn't give humans choice otherwise he would cease to be God. God is the ultimate source, everything in our existence has to be something of his creation, directly or indirectly.

[Vitalij]

Ok, I've always been really into the idea that perhaps evolution is indeed proof that there is intelligent design in the universe. Heck, even we as people design machines, and to me it seems that lifeforms are not much different from machines and go through trial and error situations with evolution. So can an intelligence be behind this trial and error process of evolution? What do you think.

Also to start off this topic, I have an essay I wrote for my final in Philosophy if Religion. I'll put it in qoutes so it stands out against what I typed above.

There is one silly mistake in all existing theories about evolutionary development of everything living and sentient being on the planet. What's never considered is the fact that this whole phenomenal manifested world is mere theatrical props. That's why it does not evolve, but just occasionally undergoes certain small designer's polishings. Only the consciousnesses (or souls) that are being grown for the specific cosmic needs in these biomachines can develop along the evolution or involution.

Vitalij

"Earth - the planet of biorobots"

http://www.godswhip.info/

[bathory]

What's never considered is the fact that this whole phenomenal manifested world is mere theatrical props. That's why it

the fact?

puhlease, i can only see one 'fact' coming from your post, and it isn't particularly flattering on your part

[Chauncy]

Vitalij you've been whatching the Matrix way too often!!!!

[Vitalij]

Vitalij you've been whatching the Matrix way too often!!!!

Only once, if that matters. - Vitalij