"Everyone has the right to do what I want"

[+HerNibs]

Let me put it this way.

When it comes to gays, the amount of stuff they do is disproportionate compared to straights when you consider there are way more straight people.

How do you figure? Did you see my list?

HN

[Siara]

Also allow me to reiterate that straights have not turned being straight into a lifestyle and a culture, while gays have.

I strongly disagree. You don't perceive it as a lifestyle because it is such a dominant lifestyle that it encompasses us. You can't see the forest for the trees.

[Siara]

Tell me about the "straight lifestyle" then?

It's not a "straight" lifestyle, it's just the a lifestyle that has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Please, explain what "straight culture" is and how it's unique rather than a mirror image of gay culture?

Sheez Kacen... indoctrination into the straight lifestyle starts when you are a baby and you are bombarded by it every day of your life. Babies dressed in blue (it's a boy!) are encouraged to be more aggressive than babies dressed in pink. The vocabulary, the toys they play with, how they touch their bodies blends seamlessly into what career is appropriate for them, who they should date, how they should walk, talk, and dress, what they should read, what friends they should have, their role within the structure of the household... that's all straight lifestyle.

[+HerNibs]

Tell me about the "straight lifestyle" then?

It's not a "straight" lifestyle, it's just the a lifestyle that has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Please, explain what "straight culture" is and how it's unique rather than a mirror image of gay culture?

The straigh lifestyle begins with many traditions. Courtship, dances and various activities. Usually sponsored by local institutions and churches.

This same lifestyle then moves to more permanent celebration of marriage. Sometimes sanctified by religion and legalized by the state. Then those two straights can function as one. Make medical decisions, financial decisions, child rearing decisions and life and death decisions for each other.

There lives together are celebrated by society as a whole. Newspapers and tv shows will celebrate with the straight couple on their silver anniversaries. Even giving them discounts for being together for so long.

Jewelry is made in recognition of these milestones in their lives.

When the sad ending of the joining comes around due to death, the survivor gets all of the departeds propert, valuables, etc.

________________________

There - the straight lifestyle and culture.

HN

Edited June 16, 2009 by HerNibs

[+Sherapy]

Also allow me to reiterate that straights have not turned being straight into a lifestyle and a culture, while gays have.

In fact gays have nearly turned it into the equivalent of an ethnicity, which is simply silly. That is my main issue. They essentially "segregate" themselves.

HOWEVER, I do understand why gays have turned it into a culture, or at least one of the reasons why; to oppose the people who hate them, namely the Christian right. That is understandable, but it is essentially doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

to say that the heterosexual community makes nothing of it is in error..

the heterosexual lifestyle is considered the norm, it is the model for our culture, it is assumed that being heterosexual is innate and anything counter to it wrong....this is our cultural model or else you are labeled as less then (prop 8 spent millions to support this idea that heterosexuality is the 'right' sexual behavior) ....I'd say that is a very big deal and presumptuous and arrogant also....

what we see now is this idea that heterosexuality is natural to all being questioned, turns out it isn't....

heterosexuality is doing the segregating the GLTB community is challenging that position.....

if it wasn't for the heterosexual mindset there would be no issue....

Edited June 16, 2009 by Tangerine Sheri

[Siara]

If you want to look at a weird example of straight lifestyle look no further than a traditional marriage ceremony. The woman is dressed in a wildly showy white gown to proclaim to the entire world that her hymen is intact and tonight will be the night it's pierced for the first time. In many cultures this event is even more graphically illustrated by hanging blood covered sheets from the marital bed out the next morning. I mean... it's blatant, graphic and weird.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Siara

[Siara]

To reiterate my previous post - that's normal western culture, not -straight- culture.

"Normal" western culture IS straight culture.

[+Sherapy]

No, you're thinking of gender identity, not sexual preference. And as much as I am risking being called a bigot for saying this, that's called western society. Heck, this has nothing at all to do with homosexuality, what you just brought up. You're calling it "indoctrination". Risking myself again, heterosexuality -is- the norm, it makes children, therefore it's woven into pretty much every society on earth. It's not "straight" culture it's just normal culture.

To reiterate, I do not hate gays, or hate the act of sodomy, personally, I don't even believe being gay is a choice for most people, I think some people are just born that way. Why or how I don't know, nor do I really care. I don't think it's a big deal. Both the pro gay and anti-gay people make it into a huge deal, granted some to oppose the other, in an endless cycle.

no sexual behavior is being decided by our culture for us.. ( basically the religious right) you are to behave heterosexual or considered unequal and persecuted until you either shut up about it or change it to fit the status quo..

[+Sherapy]

"Normal" western culture IS straight culture.

which is the same as saying a heterosexual culture ( man with woman) it is assumed you are heterosexual unless otherwise stated..... then you are told you are less then by heterosexuals ....

[+Sherapy]

But is it all woven around being straight? No, it's just woven around being...well how western culture developed.

Making a subculture for gays is like making a subculture for people who like strawberry icecream. it's essentially the same thing. You don't need one, you need to assimilate yourselves more. Many of you gays inadvertently segregate yourselves from society by being part of "gay culture".

And yes, there are plenty of people, mainly religious nuts, who hate you just for being gay no matter how you act in public, and they are scum, and need to be done away with, because they exert their views on the state based on religion, and hold dedication to religion more important than dedication to the state.

kacen the gay culture is establishing that their is more to sexual expression besides heterosexuality, its not segregation its establishing that sexuality is not so black and white...

[Siara]

But is it all woven around being straight? No, it's just woven around being...well how western culture developed.

The aspects of it that aren't woven around being straight aren't a problem. The problem is that a huge part of it IS woven around straight culture and doesn't need to be. That's part of the problem.

[+Sherapy]

I've pointed out already that much of the issue with gays making a huge deal out of their sexuality is to oppose the Christian right. It is understandable but in some ways it's more like adding fuel to the fire. It's giving people more excuses to hate gays, I.E. them acting like complete freaks in public. Yes, yes, straight people do it too, but other people doing it too does not make it "okay" for you to do it. It is a fallacy and an argument used by weak people.

I think the main issue here is I'm viewing this from a Fascist standpoint, a standpoint that values nationalism and the preservation of a nation's heritage, rather than the standpoint you're all seeing this from. Therefore we're on completely different wavelengths.

kacen no the christian right sees it as the homosexuals seeking to oppose them, because according to them being heterosexual is g-ds way and plan anything other than is a sin.........

the chrisitian right is seeking to demand this ideaology be upheld and made into a law to be enforced if it isn't then its on the books that gays are less then therefore deserving to be robbed of thier equal rights..its legalized discrimination basically...

this is relgious discriminination, which the gay community has been dealing with for along time and speaking out ..saying "wait a minute because the RR has homophobic issues doesn't make one bieng gay less then therefore worthless and deserving of no rights..."

in essence/fact the gay community is helping their position by standing up not hurting themselves..... they have made great strides in raising awareness and educating ignorance...

they will eventually get equal rights this is following the same pattern as blacks standing for equality or women or kids etc.....

the problem is what needs to change is the ideology that perpetuates these issues in the first place....Its an outdated ideology much in the same way the earth is flat ..

its rooted in ignorance....

Edited June 16, 2009 by Tangerine Sheri

[Godsnmbr1]

They hate gays for dumb reasons and mess with the government, trying to turn us into a theocracy. I am against such.

Yeah, you gotta hate em for the right reasons!

[+Sherapy]

Which is abstract and gets nowhere. It's pointless. Someone's sexuality is not important, and I've mentioned numerous times that gratuitous displays of sexuality in public is disgusting, gay or straight. Man you people are dense, somehow I don't think you people understand what I'm trying to say, or perhaps I'm not too good at explaining myself.

Heterosexuality is a the norm because it makes children, and every culture on earth recognizes it. Therefore it's ingrained into tradition, and tradition should be preserved.

why should tradition be preserved when it is harming a large portion of our culture? on what grounds?

tradition is just inherited ideas from generation to generation are you saying that because this is religious tradition and ritual it can't be in error??

you say you support equal rights yet your counters do not posit this.....so which is it you do or you don't ?

Edited June 16, 2009 by Tangerine Sheri

[+Sherapy]

Because it's...tradition? I see no reason that tradition should be tossed aside for dumb reasons. Once again I reiterate you're obviously not a Fascist and do not care about preservation of culture or tradition at all, so we're on completely different wavelengths. You just can't see how I see it anymore than a theoretical being from the second dimension can comprehend something from the third dimension.

I am not for equal rights, I'm for meritocracy. People should be judged based on merit. Groups are equal, straights, gays, whites, blacks, men, women etc but individuals are not. People show their worth through merit to the state, that is what Fascism is about.

All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

so you support inequality unless you think the individual has a good enough reason to be worthy of fair treatment...

[Doug1029]

Also allow me to reiterate that straights have not turned being straight into a lifestyle and a culture, ....

You do not perceive it because it is pervasive in your culture. You are steeped in it, yet are no more aware of it than the fish is aware of the water it swims in.

Doug

[Beckys_Mom]

Heterosexuality is a the norm because it makes children, and every culture on earth recognizes it. Therefore it's ingrained into tradition, and tradition should be preserved.

Really?....I too am straight...............but who are you to decide what it is that defines the norm?

Its this attitude that causes so many to hate................not saying you hate them.....but those that do think the same and then some

I am left handed.........I find it so weird when I see anyone use their right hand.........to me its not normal...................WHY? because all I know is my left hand is the better one to use

Sexuality....same darn thing............if you are born straight, its all you know....then yes it will look odd seeing the opposite happen

Same with gay people...........they are born this way, it's all they know....it will look odd to see two of the opposite sex get it on.

open your mind and think...................maybe god created gays to control the over populated word..ect.god made us all different...and maybe to see how well we treat eachother...ever tjhink of that? hmmmm The only difference between a gay person and a straight, is their hormones that produce their sexuality........that is it....for the love of donuts.........and to think people use this as an excuse to chant hate at them.......blimey...what a hateful world we live in eh?.................everyone here has a purpose.....so please, if you can excuse me for a sec, I don't buy into ignorance.........it is too pathetic

Edited June 16, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[Purplos]

Some of the things here that people are touting as 'heterosexual lifestyle' are just silly. Dating? Dances? White dresses? Gay people date. Gay people go to dances. When they show happy gay people getting married on the TV in big group ceremonies, half the women are wearing white dresses. Is it because they are brainwashed by the overbearing heterosexual lifestyle, or just because they think white dresses are nice traditional costume for a wedding?

Straight couples smooching (and more) on TV, movies and billboards? That's marketing. Heterosexuals make up the majority of the population. Therefore, marketing will be aimed at them. If there were more homosexuals, there would be more gay couples lounging about half naked on jeans billboards (oh wait, there were 3 guys on the latest CK one, right?)

Everyone SOOOO wants to lump people together into groups. The heterosexuals do this... the homosexuals do that... the Christians hate... the liberals pander... Isn't judging a whole group based on the actions of a few (or even a lot) simply discrimination?

I rather like the way Kacen said it: groups should be equal (that almost seems to negate the 'groupiness' of the whole thing - wonderful!) and individual's prove their worth through action (although I don't agree with the 'to the state' bit).

I admit that I don't know that many homosexuals in my life. Maybe a dozen. None of them considered the 'heterosexual lifestyle' to be a detriment to their happiness. I think it sad that some homosexuals seem to hate heterosexuals as an entire group simply because they... er... show straight couples kissing on TV? How idiotic that sounds.

[Beckys_Mom]

There's no right reason to hate a gay just for being gay. They hate gays based on the Bible, so even if a gay is loyal to the state and keeps stuff in private they still hate them. So yes it's hating them for dumb reasons. Not that being gay is inherently bad as I've tried to point out numerous times over and over again but it's not getting through any of you people's dense heads.

To my own belief..........anyone that uses a holy bible for hate towards anyone.............will suffer in the afterlife..........even the very persons that agreed to write it and publish it in the book for all to take as gods word......................................yet.its amazing how so many christians claim, the bible, should not be taken literally.........wow fancy that eh?

[Mr Walker]

Thats a crock. Let me make a suggestion, go online to one of the millions of BGLT forums, and explain you are straight and looking to broaden your horizons because you have never had a homosexual friend, and you would infact like to make such a friend in the hops of bettering your understanding.

If you do make such a friend, invite them to your home. Im here to tell you that if YOU stick up for your friends, other people will back off.

Ive had many many friends who were part of the BGLT community, and I know what its like to stand up and tell some one to back the hell off, I'll be friends with whom I want, when I want, and if they dont like it, then maybe THEY are the one whos not my friend. We all know about bullys, bullies are weak scared little brats (even adult bullies), and 9 times out of 10 back down. That 10th time? Dont be afraid to throw that punch right back, pain is temporary, the pride that you stood up for yourself, your friends and your beliefs, thats forever.

READ MY POST with a clear head and an open mind. I said i would not have in my house; men who abuse women, People who are violently affected by drugs including alcohol, or those who abuse children, because while i love them as humans, it is not safe for me to have tham in my home. I specifically said that any one else, including gays would be welcomed and appreciated.

My home has been a haven for abused women and for abused children, for drug users, and the socially lost. While not putting gays in those categories they would be just as welcomed.

I appreciate your point about inviting them home, but in practice my life is full enough, still it is something to keep in mind. Given the misunderstanding of some christians among certain segments, including some on these forums, gay people might also have some trepidations about coming into the home of a stanger who jusy happened to be a "christian."

For example, people who smoke and drink, and cannot exist without doing so, may feel uncomfortable in our home, because although we dont judge others by their behaviour, our home is free of those practices. That discomfort is not a consequence of our behaviour but of the way others perceive and judge it, and the conflict it creates with their own needs.