Neda, young girl brutally killed in Iran,

[Sho_Sho]

well spotted Leo.

the BBC is at it again. they make their agenda so obvious.. it's a horrible form of journalism they have adopted. truly awful.

Whats horrible is the loss of this young girls life. She was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

You seem to have a lot of sympathy for domineering oppressive governments! I have seen your stance on NK and now this?

You forget that these people are fighting because their election was rigged, the people Do not want Ahmadinejad as their “president” more like Dictator, and they know they are heading into a rigged dictatorship, and they are trying to stop it in its tracks, They have been shut down long enough, and they don’t want another forced "term" with this monster!

He rigged the election and the people are not going to stand for it! You refuse to even acknowledge this poor girls loss of life because you sympathize with Ahmadinejad. That’s sad. Instead you argue that it’s the media putting a spin on her death to make Ahmadinejad look bad.

[EmpressStarXVII]

This is another example of propaganda, and quite ugly propaganda at that (not directing this at you Empress) because it is simply using this young womans death.

Didn't think so in the slightest

Believe me I'm not terribly blinded (at least I'd like to think so), I know her death is being used. You can pretty much put martyrdom into two categories in Islam. Knowingly sacrifice as you said; and death by calamities (natural disasters, dying at birth, innocent deaths pretty much). The language barriers on translating this is an interesting one. The most commonly associated, willing sacrifice, is التضحية بالذات in Arabic (I don't know how to transliterate it, I still have to use accent marks which aren't present), but that word is not used for martyrs. What is used is شَهيد shaheed, which translates back to "witness".

Edited June 23, 2009 by EmpressStarXVII

[Ins0mniac]

I am not belittling the tragedy of her death, but what was she a martyr of?

She was not involved in the protests at all, her being at that unfortunate spot was purely coincidence. There is no evidence of who shot her, except some second-hand eyewitness reports of "people dressed as civilians" (the actual quote was 'paramilitaries dressed as civilians - but how can you tell if a person dressed in civilian clothing is a paramilitary?)

Being a martyr implies giving your life knowingly for a cause. What cause did she give her life up to? The protests? No, she was not involved in them.

This is another example of propaganda, and quite ugly propaganda at that (not directing this at you Empress) because it is simply using this young womans death.

The original post says there is also footage of her and her father protesting. Where is your source suggesting she was not protesting at all? Or do you mean she was not protesting at the time of being shot?

[questionmark]

The original post says there is also footage of her and her father protesting. Where is your source suggesting she was not protesting at all? Or do you mean she was not protesting at the time of being shot?

From what her fiance said, she was not with her father but with her music teacher, and she was on the way back from classes

She had been sitting with her music teacher in a car, stuck in traffic, when she decided to get out because of the heat.

"She got out of the car for just for a few minutes [and] that's when she was shot dead," said Caspian Makan.

Mr Makan quoted eyewitnesses as saying she appeared to have been targeted deliberately by "paramilitaries in civilian clothing".

He added that officials had prevented mourners holding a memorial service at a mosque on Monday.

Source: BBC

[Sho_Sho]

The original post says there is also footage of her and her father protesting. Where is your source suggesting she was not protesting at all? Or do you mean she was not protesting at the time of being shot?

Who cares if she was protesting! Which I have heard she wasnt. That is no reason to kill the girl! The main fact is they should be able to protest without being murdered.

[Sho_Sho]

I just read an artical,

All mosques were given a direct order from the government barring them from holding any memorial services for Neda, and her family was threatened with grave consequences if anyone gathered to mourn her, said Samsami.

Soltan's loved ones were outraged by the authorities' order not to eulogize her. "They were threatened that if people wanted to gather there the family would be charged and punished,"

[InHuman]

I just read an artical,

All mosques were given a direct order from the government barring them from holding any memorial services for Neda, and her family was threatened with grave consequences if anyone gathered to mourn her, said Samsami.

Soltan's loved ones were outraged by the authorities' order not to eulogize her. "They were threatened that if people wanted to gather there the family would be charged and punished,"

This is just going to make the people fight harder.

[__Kratos__]

Who was Neda? Slain woman an unlikely martyr

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- The young woman who last weekend emerged as a powerful symbol of opposition to the Iranian government embraced life in many ways, but there was little about her that would have led her friends to predict she would become a martyr, one of them told CNN.

Neda Agha-Soltan, 26, rose to prominence within hours after a crudely shot video documenting her final moments was uploaded to the Web shortly after she died Saturday from a single gunshot wound to the chest.

"It's heartbreaking," President Obama said Tuesday in Washington, referring to the video of the woman the world has come to know simply as Neda, which means "divine calling" in Farsi. "And I think anyone who sees it knows there's something fundamentally unjust about it."

Since Saturday, the Iranian government has sought to minimize the impact of her death, but one of her friends on Tuesday described her to CNN in an attempt to inject life and context into what has been -- for much of the rest of the world -- just a few seconds of powerful, if grainy, video.

Much about her remains unclear, but here is what CNN has learned from at least one source:

The second of three children, Neda lived with her parents in a middle-class neighborhood east of Tehran.

She was a happy, positive person. Though she studied philosophy and religion at the Azad Islamic University, she was more spiritual than religious. She also loved music. She once studied violin but had given it up and was planning to take up piano next. She had just bought a piano, but it had not yet been delivered.

Her demeanor was typically calm, even serene, but she had a quirky, playful sense of humor. A friend recalled that once, when Neda was visiting her friend's house, she picked up a white Teddy bear, took off her big, purple-studded earrings and put them on the bear. Then she removed a necklace from around the neck of a friend and put it around the bear's neck, taking delight in the bear's transformation.

More of the article here: Link

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[Ins0mniac]

Who cares if she was protesting! Which I have heard she wasnt. That is no reason to kill the girl! The main fact is they should be able to protest without being murdered.

I was merely replying to a statement suggesting that her death wasn't for a cause because she wasn't even a protestor. I wasn't in any way suggesting it was any reason to kill the girl. Nor was anybody else here as far as I could tell.

And I was merely pointing out what was said in the original post in case anyone had missed it. If this point has been proven wrong in other sources then fine.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Ins0mniac

[questionmark]

in related news:

Iran says Neda's death may be tied to 'terrorist' group

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran said the gunman who killed Neda Agha-Soltan may have mistaken her for the sister of an Iranian "terrorist," the Islamic Republic News Agency reported Wednesday.

Iran blamed the death of the woman known to the world simply as Neda squarely on "those groups who want to create division in the nation," saying they planned the woman's killing "to accuse the Islamic republic of ruthlessly dealing with the opposition," according to IRNA, Iran's state-run news agency.

The report said the investigation into her death is ongoing, "but according to the evidence so far, it could be said that she was killed by mistake. The marksmen had mistaken her for the sister of one of the Monafeghin who had been executed in the province of Mazandaran some time ago."

Monafeghin refers to the People's Mujahedin Organization of Iran, or PMOI, which promotes a secular, Marxist government for Iran, and has waged a violent campaign against the fundamentalist Islamic regime, including bombings that killed politicians, judges and Cabinet members.

Full story, source: CNN

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All I can say: Do away with those scarfs and errors of this type would not happen so easily, and besides: has Dodge law (shoot first, ask questions later) made it's way to Iran now?

Now this thing is becoming a real scandal.

[__Kratos__]

If that was true even in the slightest, why are they cracking down on the family to prevent a proper mourning and gathering if they have nothing to do with it? As well they labeled her as a 'rioter'.

[wexler]

I am not belittling the tragedy of her death, but what was she a martyr of?

She was not involved in the protests at all, her being at that unfortunate spot was purely coincidence. There is no evidence of who shot her, except some second-hand eyewitness reports of "people dressed as civilians" (the actual quote was 'paramilitaries dressed as civilians - but how can you tell if a person dressed in civilian clothing is a paramilitary?)

Being a martyr implies giving your life knowingly for a cause. What cause did she give her life up to? The protests? No, she was not involved in them.

This is another example of propaganda, and quite ugly propaganda at that (not directing this at you Empress) because it is simply using this young womans death.

This is what I'm not understanding. If she's a nobody then why would she be targeted? Who would know who she was? The idea that she was deliberately sought out and targeted is strange. There was no activity happening where she was standing. Seems to me that it's a weird circumstance to suggest that she was targeted for protesting when she was shot standing next to her car getting fresh air.

I'm confused by this as well. It actually seemed like an accidental shooting to me except for the fact that she was shot through the heart. Any more alternative perspectives on this topic are interesting to me. The video is devastating.

[Sho_Sho]

I was merely replying to a statement suggesting that her death wasn't for a cause because she wasn't even a protestor. I wasn't in any way suggesting it was any reason to kill the girl. Nor was anybody else here as far as I could tell.

And I was merely pointing out what was said in the original post in case anyone had missed it. If this point has been proven wrong in other sources then fine.

Oh, I know! I was agreeing with you. Then I went on my own little rant about it, but not towards you.. LOL

Sorry for the confusion!

[The Silver Thong]

This is just going to make the people fight harder.

I think thats going to be the case as well.

[Sho_Sho]

I think thats going to be the case as well.

They should fight harder and not back down from these monsters! They are taking their country back!

[Runa86]

Turns out that the doctor who tried to save Neda is a friend of author Paulo Coehlo. They had an exchange of emails:

Dearest Paulo:

Trying to leave the country tomorrow morning. If I don't arrive in London at 2 pm., something has happened to me

Here for all the e mails.

The doctor also gave an interview to the BBC, in which he stated:

"People shouted 'we got him, we got him'. They disarmed him and took out his identity card which showed he was a Basij member. People were furious and he was shouting, 'I didn't want to kill her'.

"They are going to denounce what I am saying. They are going to put so many things on me. I have never been in politics. I am jeopardising my situation because of the innocent look in her (Neda's) eyes."

Watch video

Iranian state-run media is the one spreading the rumors about terrorists.

Neda's family has been forced out of home.

Also, in bizarro world: Family of Iranian killed during protests, obliged to pay 3000 dollars - the fee for shooting bullets used in young.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Runa86

[The Silver Thong]

This is just sad. I hope the people of Iran over throw that nut bar Amabutthole.

[Cyrus the Great]

I am not belittling the tragedy of her death, but what was she a martyr of?

She was not involved in the protests at all, her being at that unfortunate spot was purely coincidence. There is no evidence of who shot her, except some second-hand eyewitness reports of "people dressed as civilians" (the actual quote was 'paramilitaries dressed as civilians - but how can you tell if a person dressed in civilian clothing is a paramilitary?)

Being a martyr implies giving your life knowingly for a cause. What cause did she give her life up to? The protests? No, she was not involved in them.

This is another example of propaganda, and quite ugly propaganda at that (not directing this at you Empress) because it is simply using this young womans death.

Surely you don’t live in Iran, so you can’t judge on this matter. But I live here. I voted for Mousavi. I was in the demonstrations. I see Basiji militia everyday. I know better than you what kind of people Khameneh'i & Ahmadinejad are. So let me clarify you that if you are looking for evidence here, it’s impossible. The only media that still works here and is not affiliated to the government is internet. There is no independent newspaper or TV left in Iran. Even the cell phone messages are down. There are thousands of people even some professors in custody. If Mousavi is not arrested yet, it's simply because the regime fears its consequences. We are in the middle of a modern dictatorship and you are looking for evidence.

In our culture everybody who is scarified for a holy purpose is considered "martyr". Freedom has always been the holiest goal of human beings.

[Cyrus the Great]

This is what I'm not understanding. If she's a nobody then why would she be targeted? Who would know who she was? The idea that she was deliberately sought out and targeted is strange. There was no activity happening where she was standing. Seems to me that it's a weird circumstance to suggest that she was targeted for protesting when she was shot standing next to her car getting fresh air.

I'm confused by this as well. It actually seemed like an accidental shooting to me except for the fact that she was shot through the heart. Any more alternative perspectives on this topic are interesting to me. The video is devastating.

Don't be confused. I live in Iran and the situation is very clear for me.

The Basiji militia is similar to Nazi SS during WWII. They are a bunch of brain washed radical people who acts only by order of Khameneh'i (Iran Supreme leader). They worship him like God. Quite similar to what Hitler was for the SS members. They are very religious though and such a clear brutal crime is just a holy act for them. They don't mind if they kill thousands of people like Neda because they simply think it saves the Islamic regime and they serve Islam. Because of this religious belief I ,as an Iranian, believe they are much more dangerous than Nazi SS.

There is no trial for such crimes here and the state run media just tries to cover their act by creating bizarre scenarios.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Cyrus the Gteat

[The Silver Thong]

They should fight harder and not back down from these monsters! They are taking their country back!

Ya I hope they do but it sure won't be easy.

[Cyrus the Great]

Ya I hope they do but it sure won't be easy.

I agree. It's not easy. All the streets are flooded with Basiji militia (equipped with guns, clubs, and knives), anti riot police & revolutionary guards. Thousands of people are detained and no one knows where they are. Challenging the regime in this situation simply means suicide. The people are quiet now but with anger. I think it's time for global pressure on the regime. For example no government should recognize Ahmadinejad as legal president of Iran or invite him into its country.

[Cyrus the Great]

Didn't think so in the slightest

Believe me I'm not terribly blinded (at least I'd like to think so), I know her death is being used. You can pretty much put martyrdom into two categories in Islam. Knowingly sacrifice as you said; and death by calamities (natural disasters, dying at birth, innocent deaths pretty much). The language barriers on translating this is an interesting one. The most commonly associated, willing sacrifice, is التضحية بالذات in Arabic (I don't know how to transliterate it, I still have to use accent marks which aren't present), but that word is not used for martyrs. What is used is شَهيد shaheed, which translates back to "witness".

Let me remind you that شهید or ‘Martyr’ isn't only an Islamic concept. It is a global concept and as I mentioned before, in our culture, from Cyrus the Great until today, everybody who loses his life for a holy purpose, such as freedom, is considered martyr.

Don't forget that we chose Islam but we didn’t become Arabs, such as Egyptian people, so we still have our great culture even though some fanatic mullahs have long tried to destroy it.

Neda is a martyr of freedom. ندا شهید راه آزادیست

[Princess Serenity]

If you are really from Iran. And she was an innocent bysider. I wish her a peaceful rest.

I wish the best for you. I don't like Ahmadinejad as the next person.

I'm following the news with Iran right now.

Isn't Mousvi (sorry for the spelling) under house arrest?

Edited June 25, 2009 by MoonPrincess

[Cyrus the Great]

If you are really from Iran. And she was an innocent bysider. I wish her a peaceful rest.

I wish the best for you. I don't like Ahmadinejad as the next person.

I'm following the news with Iran right now.

Isn't Mousvi (sorry for the spelling) under house arrest?

Thank you. Yes. I am really from Iran. I don't need to lie about it.

And about your question, No. He is not. Last time I saw him was about a week ago during a demonstration in Imam Khomeini Square. Of course the regime wants to arrest him but it fears the consequences. خداوند پشت و پناهش باشه or may God save him.

[Princess Serenity]

Thank you. Yes. I am really from Iran. I don't need to lie about it.

And about your question, No. He is not. Last time I saw him was about a week ago during a demonstration in Imam Khomeini Square. Of course the regime wants to arrest him but it fears the consequences. خداوند پشت و پناهش باشه or may God save him.

Okay. (We get liars here all the time. Not you're one.)

Fox News lied to me! D: Oh well. :/ I didn't even see the report anyway.

That's what appears to be.

There's another members from Iran here. We haven't heard from him since mid last year.

Edited June 25, 2009 by MoonPrincess