Transhumanism Posted May 4, 2004 #1 Share Posted May 4, 2004 There is a Nick Bostrom, PhD, of Philosophy Faculty, Oxford University who makes the case that we humans may be living in a computer simulation. See http://www.simulation-argument.com/ I have not read it as yet, but will soon. If others want to read it and paraphrase the info., go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted May 4, 2004 #2 Share Posted May 4, 2004 The matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cufflink Posted May 5, 2004 #3 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I love The Matrix. It's a fabulous movie. Great characters, amazing effects, and a brilliant story concept. It has style. There is something deeply cool about it. I love it. I love it to bits. It's awesome. But if Nick Bostrom, PhD, of Oxford University, thinks we're living in a computer simulation, then he's off his ****ing head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkyburd Posted May 5, 2004 #4 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Even if we are living in a super complex computer system, how could we ever know? Why would we ever want to know? If you can't do anything about it then why care at all? I certainly don't care. Call me cypher if you will, but whats the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulltimekiller Posted May 5, 2004 #5 Share Posted May 5, 2004 You got to be kidding me I dont believe we are living in a computer simulation I guess some people have crazy beliefs and idea after watching movies and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transhumanism Posted May 5, 2004 Author #6 Share Posted May 5, 2004 You got to be kidding me I dont believe we are living in a computer simulation I guess some people have crazy beliefs and idea after watching movies and stuff. And how would you ever even know that your world is "real." When you dream, do you think it's fake during the dream? What if your life is one long dream in which you never wake up. Have you never taken philosophy? My friend is taking philosophy and the class has mostly Christians and they were all damning the teacher to Hell Fire for questioning their perceptions of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlon64 Posted May 5, 2004 #7 Share Posted May 5, 2004 It's amazing how people dismiss theories simply because they feel uncomfortable with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulltimekiller Posted May 6, 2004 #8 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I didn't dismiss any theories the just seems hard to believes. Off course we need some research to prove a theory(even theory are hard to believe)I heard of some theory that is hard to believe but it actually turn out that it does work. Example-When you get a heavy object and a light object some people may think that the heavy object will drop faster.But when you experiment with it they both drop at a same speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelfish Posted May 6, 2004 #9 Share Posted May 6, 2004 If we live in a compu sim'd world then why the hell can't they make it more goddamned interesting!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHand Posted May 9, 2004 #10 Share Posted May 9, 2004 What method could you possibly use to prove that we are living in a computer program anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenk Posted May 9, 2004 #11 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Ctrl Alt Delete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico del nacho Posted May 9, 2004 #12 Share Posted May 9, 2004 You got to be kidding me I dont believe we are living in a computer simulation I guess some people have crazy beliefs and idea after watching movies and stuff. i don't see how it's a crazy idea at all. but like monkyburd, i don't care much one way or the other. Ctrl Alt Delete? lol wicked, jenk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted May 9, 2004 #13 Share Posted May 9, 2004 in terms of probability, i would imagine being in a simulated world would be more likely than say being part of a universe created by a supernatural all powerful being:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transhumanism Posted May 9, 2004 Author #14 Share Posted May 9, 2004 What method could you possibly use to prove that we are living in a computer program anyway? If we are living in an artificial world, then the "laws of physics" would not be constant or even non-arbitrary but dependent on the whims of those that created our world, like the movie "The Matrix." As such, the scientific method may not work. But, it may also be that the evidence for such a scenario is not accessable to man, similar to how the evidence for black holes was not available 500 years ago. So, it's just philosophical speculations at the moment. But, Nick Bostrom says he has evidence in support of the "Matrix" scenario, but I have not read anything on his site as yet. I DO wish though I was living in a computer, that would give me the prospects of living for ever and the possibilty of creating my environment to fit my desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrosis Posted May 9, 2004 #15 Share Posted May 9, 2004 When you dream, do you think it's fake during the dream? What if your life is one long dream in which you never wake up. Have you never taken philosophy? The difference between dreaming and waking is concious thought. If life was a dream we wouldn't have concious thought. As Descartes said, 'I think therefore I am'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted May 9, 2004 #16 Share Posted May 9, 2004 I love The Matrix films, all of them especially the second one. I do not believe or disbelieve that there is a possibility that we are living in a computer simulation, however I do not think it would be exactly like the matrix. Anyway you could say that our brains are computers [sorry if this has already been mentioned] and then yes you could say that we are controlled by computers because our brains control us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transhumanism Posted May 9, 2004 Author #17 Share Posted May 9, 2004 (edited) The difference between dreaming and waking is concious thought. If life was a dream we wouldn't have concious thought. As Descartes said, 'I think therefore I am'. In dreams we THINK we have conscious thought. When we are dreaming, we think what we are experiencing is real, we are experiencing consciousness in the dreams. But, once we wake up, we realize it was only a dream and not real. Well, one day you may wake up from this current world and realize it was never real to begin with. You never know. Reality as we perceive it is nothing more than electrical activity in the brain. Scizofrenics believe in unreal things because their brains are putting forth the mechanical processes that create such mental pictures. In other words, our world can be completely fake and artificial stimulations could be fed to our brains to create the perception of our fake world. What if you are stuck to a bunch of electrodes at this very moment and are being fed artificial input? How would you ever know? So, this is a philosophical matter, not a proclamation that our world is indeed fake. Edited May 9, 2004 by Transhumanism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico del nacho Posted May 9, 2004 #18 Share Posted May 9, 2004 As Descartes said, 'I think therefore I am' indeed he did. still, as this is a philisophical view, it doens't so much prove anything. this thread has amde me think of this pome here: Butterfly By Dave Gibbons Chuang Tzu had a dream In the dream he was a butterfly When he awoke Chuang Tzu was unsure If he was a man Who had dreamed That he was a butterfly Or if he was a butterfly Who was dreaming That he was a man In truth Chuang Tzu was neither Man nor butterfly and yet he was both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHand Posted May 10, 2004 #19 Share Posted May 10, 2004 And how would you ever even know that your world is "real." When you dream, do you think it's fake during the dream? What if your life is one long dream in which you never wake up. Have you never taken philosophy? My friend is taking philosophy and the class has mostly Christians and they were all damning the teacher to Hell Fire for questioning their perceptions of reality. Did they really damn the teacher to hell fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transhumanism Posted May 12, 2004 Author #20 Share Posted May 12, 2004 The Christians were very angry at the instructor for questioning their religious perspectives. Many dropped the class because they thought the teacher was promoting Satanism. I know one Muslim who took the class and by the end of the semester became an agnostic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondhand Posted May 12, 2004 #21 Share Posted May 12, 2004 (edited) If we're living in a computer simulation why do the programmers let lunatics like Nick Bostrom, PhD tell us about it? Unless he's like the dude in Total Recall who tries to tell Arnie that he's screwed, and Arnie [because he's great and skill] sees the bead of sweat and puts a bullet in the poor [censored] skull. Haven't read the article yet. I will though. Edited July 25, 2004 by Mentalcase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHand Posted May 14, 2004 #22 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Cool! Is that an elective in college? Or is it an elective in high school? Because I'm in high school. I don't believe in god/religion anyway, so me and the teacher would get along just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico del nacho Posted May 14, 2004 #23 Share Posted May 14, 2004 My friend is taking philosophy and the class has mostly Christians and they were all damning the teacher to Hell Fire for questioning their perceptions of reality. those kind of christians are very annoying. they are the narrowminded ignorant people who give the entire religion a bad name. still, with any movement, religious or otherwise, you're going to find these annoying ignorant zealots... as for dreams. when we dream, , as was said, we think we have conscious thought. no matter what crazy thing happens, we take it in stride and think nothing of it. for example: "this frog is talking to me and there's a horse fighting a dragon with a salt shaker. all is right in the world." when we wake up, we realize how utterly bizarre that dream was. say we "woke up" right now. looking back on our dream, what we call reality right now, would it still seem logical? sensical? or would it seem as if it was just a very long, very strange dream? it's an interesting thing to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RulerOfSquirrels Posted June 2, 2004 #24 Share Posted June 2, 2004 say we "woke up" right now. looking back on our dream, what we call reality right now, would it still seem logical? sensical? or would it seem as if it was just a very long, very strange dream? I don't believe that we're all holograms running around a little computer-generated world, but there are still a few confusing things about our biological makeup that scientists still haven't figured out. Like how our brain works. It's more complicated than any computer, but it's completely natural as well. I think the possibility is out there, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boddhi Posted June 2, 2004 #25 Share Posted June 2, 2004 It's amazing how people dismiss theories simply because they feel uncomfortable with them. Rubbish! I dismiss that completely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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