Body of Saint Paul believed found

[UM-Bot]

The Pope has delivered the news that the body of Saint Paul has been found, the discovery came after fragments of bone found in the tomb reported to be that of Saint Paul were carbon dated to the first or second century.

"Ruthless, half mad, he stoned Christians to death. He also founded modern civilisation. And until yesterday, his fate was one of history's great mysteries...Deeply moved, the Pope delivered the news on Sunday that fragments of bones found in the tomb traditionally considered to be that of Saint Paul did indeed date from the first or second century. "

View: Full Article | Source: Daily Mail

[shaka5]

hahahahahaha...more non sense

[Marby]

I find this hilarious. Anyone's bones could be in there. No one really knows because we have no relatives to compare DNA too, if in fact, DNA tests are even possible on those bones. We have nothing else other than the fact that these bones are old enough and where they are to provide a scrap of evidence that these bones belong to St. Paul. The Pope is reaching hard for that relevance.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Marby

[mako]

Could just as easily be the bones of a Mithran priest...especially since there was both a Mithran sacturary and a pagan cemetary both located in the same location as the purported bones of Paul...talk about grasping for straws, the Christians are really getting desperate...LOL

[Marby]

Could just as easily be the bones of a Mithran priest...especially since there was both a Mithran sacturary and a pagan cemetary both located in the same location as the purported bones of Paul...talk about grasping for straws, the Christians are really getting desperate...LOL

Exactly. It could be anyone. And when you consider that in the Middle Ages, relics were the hot item and were generally crude forgeries, it would not be a huge surprise if they threw anyone in there back then and called him St. Paul. Why not, right? It's not as though we'll ever know, and funnily enough, we won't.

[Lt_Ripley]

Could just as easily be the bones of a Mithran priest...especially since there was both a Mithran sacturary and a pagan cemetary both located in the same location as the purported bones of Paul...talk about grasping for straws, the Christians are really getting desperate...LOL

lmao. gotta boost that membership drive !!

[Aztur]

1. It could be anyone from that era.

2. Christians don't believe in carbon-dating.

[Eternal Light]

Yes, nobody really knows what happened to Paul after his house arrest... Could be anyone's bones. The autrhor comes across as biased toward belief imho. He wrote a book on Paul.

[Dr. D]

The Pope has delivered the news that the body of Saint Paul has been found, the discovery came after fragments of bone found in the tomb reported to be that of Saint Paul were carbon dated to the first or second century.

"Ruthless, half mad, he stoned Christians to death. He also founded modern civilisation. And until yesterday, his fate was one of history's great mysteries...Deeply moved, the Pope delivered the news on Sunday that fragments of bones found in the tomb traditionally considered to be that of Saint Paul did indeed date from the first or second century. "

View: Full Article | Source: Daily Mail

So what? How many bones in Rome would date from the second century? I remember when one time they found the bones of St. Peter and they turned out to be those of a woman.

[hippomchippo]

It's funny because if this was an Egyptian king or something of that nature, people would be jumping all over it and claiming this was an amazing discovery.

But because it's an important figure in Christianity, it's ridiculous.

And before anyone says anything, I'm agnostic.

[Marby]

It's funny because if this was an Egyptian king or something of that nature, people would be jumping all over it and claiming this was an amazing discovery.

But because it's an important figure in Christianity, it's ridiculous.

And before anyone says anything, I'm agnostic.

I think you've missed the point here. When the tomb of an Egyptian ruler is discovered, there are ways to show that it is who it is. Aside from the fact that the tomb is built specifically for so and so, and we have other mummies that we can test against to show that yes, this mummy is related to that mummy, etc. Ancient Egyptians kept extensive records that they really had no need to embellish, and when someone disgraced them, they struck them from that record as they very plainly did Neftertiti. There are ways to verify that the the corpse they've found is the person the tomb states that it is, at the very least, to a high probability.

Early Christians did not really care where their relics came from. This is another known fact. People were making a killing on relics and pilmigrages that they spawned. It paid for a church to be able to say, "We have the bones of St. So and So." In the time of St. Paul, when Christianity was new, the people in power were not Christian, and therefore, had no use for keeping records regarding Christians. For the Pope to just say, "These bones are definitely St. Paul's," is laughably ridiculous. There is no way to tell.

The fact is, even if there were a likelihood involved, this discovery does not even come close to teaching us anything that we haven't already learned from other graves from the time period. We don't know that it was St. Paul, and we have no way to ever show it. So it hardly compares to the intact tomb of an Egyptian pharoah in terms of importance.

So this isn't about bashing Christianity. This is about pointing out that a grown man and head of the Catholic church should really just stop sticking his slippered foot in his mouth because he just makes himself sound like a backward idiot every time he opens it and says something like this. Agree with the religion or not, at least the last Pope had class and tact, and didn't come off like something that stepped out of the year 1251.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Marby

[schizoidwoman]

I do like the way that the Pope has invited debate on the issues..."'This seems to confirm the unanimous and uncontested tradition that the bone fragments are the mortal remains of the Apostle Paul.'"

[Marby]

I do like the way that the Pope has invited debate on the issues..."'This seems to confirm the unanimous and uncontested tradition that the bone fragments are the mortal remains of the Apostle Paul.'"

I think I would have more respect for the debate if it were a useful one. I abandoned the Catholic church well before this Pope, but it just seems to me that he's out to alienate everyone he can. Just my two cents on the guy.

By the way, I love that goose in your avatar.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Marby

[shaka5]

That's a rather radical indictment. There are millions, trillions of good Christian potential parents out there, and that comes from one who is rabidly anti-religion.

those were jokes

but honestly, some religious people shouldn't have kids, might sound mean or what not, but its abuse...my nephew's friend was at a party we had and ate pork, which is against his religion...and he was so scared, shaking to death, crying, asking for forgiveness...no child should have that fear in them, if you choose that as an adult thats fine, but thats abuse on that lil kid...so no, some religious people shouldn't have kids

[OldTimeRadio]

2. Christians don't believe in carbon-dating.

Do you really and truly believe that or did you just toss it in for a jolly moment of high hilarity and fun?

[OldTimeRadio]

How many bones in Rome would date from the second century?

I don't know, but if these bone fragments date from the Second Century, they ain't Paul's!

[shaka5]

Do you really and truly believe that or did you just toss it in for a jolly moment of high hilarity and fun?

There are a lot of Religious people who don't believe in it, i've seen plenty of people who denied it, its sad...you'd be surprised......religious people, not all...but a lot suspend critical thinking...come on, that chick from the View, i think her name is Sherri Shepard, she couldn't answer if the Earth was flat or round...look what happened to Galileo Galilei thinking on his own

[Marby]

shaka5 has a point. While the average Christian has no issues with carbon dating, many of the Fundamentalists that dispute the age of the earth despite overwhelming evidence that it is millions of years old claim that carbon dating is unreliable at best, and outright wrong at worst. Then there are those Fundamentalists that will claim it is wrong only when one of their beliefs are challenged with it.

[:PsYKoTiC:BeHAvIoR:]

I'm surprise this topic isn't a full blown religious war yet. Heh. After reading it through, Marby's first comment pretty much hits the nail dead on.

[Marby]

I'm surprise this topic isn't a full blown religious war yet. Heh. After reading it through, Marby's first comment pretty much hits the nail dead on.

Thanks

[Thomas Dialante]

1. It could be anyone from that era.

2. Christians don't believe in carbon-dating.

Yes, they only accept carbon dating when it supports them? Hypocrisy is one of the main things that drive people from religion, and yet they propagate it daily.

[Lt_Ripley]

Yes, they only accept carbon dating when it supports them? Hypocrisy is one of the main things that drive people from religion, and yet they propagate it daily.

I've seen our own 'fundies' here do the same !!

[pbarosso]

here we go again , referring to things people hold sacred as ridiculous and laughable. using a-ffective words to heighten the disrespect.

its not that i aim for censure, just better taste from those who would claim maturity.

[Marby]

here we go again , referring to things people hold sacred as ridiculous and laughable. using a-ffective words to heighten the disrespect.

its not that i aim for censure, just better taste from those who would claim maturity.

If it could be verified that the bones actually belonged to St. Paul, then it would not be laughable for the Pope to say that they belong to St. Paul. However, there s no way to do so, so his saying it is insulting the intelligence of people not only within the Catholic church, but outside of it.

Fact: There are Fundamentalists that discount carbon dating altogether, and others who discount it only when it does not agree with their world view. No one is lumping every Christian into this group, or even including Catholics in this group, because Catholics have no problems with carbon dating.

Everything that the previous posters have pointed out, from the Pope's ridiculous claim to the fact that certain people do not accept even the most simple dating techniques science has to offer that mysteriously work on anything less than six thousand years old, is pretty much true.

If it offends you that someone calls some of this behavior and belief hypocritical, then maybe you are not paying attention. I don't know. However, the lack of respect for human intelligence shown by the Pope and by those people that we have all criticized is far more tasteless and immature than anything said here.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Marby

[Lt_Ripley]

here we go again , referring to things people hold sacred as ridiculous and laughable. using a-ffective words to heighten the disrespect.

its not that i aim for censure, just better taste from those who would claim maturity.

maturity would have been the Pope not making the claim he did.