1 Question About Praying

[Dr. D]

I don't have a problem in asking for help or guidence.....and I know you don't believe in praying, but at least show that you do understand it, even though you are dead against it........I do not wish for anyone to believe me, but, if you are smart enough, you should be a bit more understanding

There are many things that people commonly do that I do not understand.

I don't understand why people smoke or drink to excess.

I don't understand drug useage.

I don't understand in the most personal sense, homosexuality.

I don't understand serial killers.

I don't understand child abusers.

I am certainly not equating prayer with such issues but not understanding the intellectual reasoning for prayer does not condemn it. It only questions why it is done. My conjecture is that many times it is a spiritual knee-jerk reaction to crisis. On other occasions it may be the singular hope one has . . . . At any rate, it in no way questions your beliefs or experiences . . . . it only expresses my beliefs and my experiences.

Like any of the things people do beyond my understanding, I have consistently said that if it brings them any sense of joy, fulfillment or pleasure then continue with it. I cannot but I have always concluded such messages with "that is only me."

Edited July 9, 2009 by Dr. D

[Beckys_Mom]

There are many things that people commonly do that I do not understand.

I don't understand why people smoke or drink to excess.

I don't understand drug useage..

I don't understand serial killers.

I don't understand child abusers.

Something you fail to notice here doc........the list of things above that you claim you just do not understand? are all things that are HARMFUL

Prayer is not harmful..........you are just telling me in a nutshell... look IIM Atheist..hear me roar LOL.........I get it doc.seriously

Edited July 9, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[Dr. D]

Something you fail to notice here doc........the list of things above that you claim you just do not understand? are all things that are HARMFUL

Prayer is not harmful..........you are just telling me in a nutshell... look IIM Atheist..hear me roar LOL.........I get it doc.seriously

Ah, but I AM NOT an athiest. Never have been and never will be.

I believe that the message of our universe has to be known by a supreme power.

If I define that power as something different from what is contained in religion, so be it.

I also said that I was not equating any of those things to prayer. I only said that they were, human actions, however harmful, I could not understand.

Not all the things I don't understand are harmful . . . .

I don't understand why women, in public places, cannot go to the bathroom alone.

I don't understand why people spend 20 times more time talking on the cell phone than they ever did on the telephone in their house before there were cellular phones.

I don't understand why poverty exists in some of the areas of the world with the richest natural resources . . . .

If one finds consolation in the belief that they can communicate with their concept of God, it is the same . . . . so be it. It is simply that I do not.

I believe that an omnipotent power is all-knowing and thus knows my needs and recognizes the secrets of my heart and soul to the point that I need not presume to tell him.

[Beckys_Mom]

Ah, but I AM NOT an athiest. Never have been and never will be.

I believe that the message of our universe has to be known by a supreme power.

If I define that power as something different from what is contained in religion, so be it.

I also said that I was not equating any of those things to prayer. I only said that they were, human actions, however harmful, I could not understand.

Not all the things I don't understand are harmful . . . .

I don't understand why women, in public places, cannot go to the bathroom alone.

I don't understand why people spend 20 times more time talking on the cell phone than they ever did on the telephone in their house before there were cellular phones.

I don't understand why poverty exists in some of the areas of the world with the richest natural resources . . . .

If one finds consolation in the belief that they can communicate with their concept of God, it is the same . . . . so be it. It is simply that I do not.

I believe that an omnipotent power is all-knowing and thus knows my needs and recognizes the secrets of my heart and soul to the point that I need not presume to tell him.

With you speaking of messages of a supreme power..........well I see god as a supreme power too, difference is I pray..and praying gives me a sense of comfort..whats not to understand about that?

Heck I do not understand why a man has to lift the toilet seat up when peeing..and still misses the bowl LOL

I don't understand why people can't look after their kids and home properly

I do not understand why anyone can drink non stop day in day out

I can make a list. but if like the man peeing and lifting the toilet seat up is harmless........I will not debate over it...LOL

I pray and I don't wish to push my beliefs on to anyone........at least I can admit that all it is - wishful and hopeful thinking....I never state it is fact <----------therefore trying to debate it with me is pointless in that case

I hold no respect for anyone that tries to debate something with me, that I have tried to show how I do not call it a fact, nor am I arrogant to think I am so special to think that god listens to just me and only me...that is pure COBBLERS.....and anyone that ties to debate with me over that, its a waste of time........Id see over it if I were making it all out as fact

I'll tell you one thing Doc, I am smart enough to be able to view other views and come to an understanding.. I undestand fully why people do not believe in prayer, I sure do not think I have a right to keep at them, pull up their posts for the sake of arguement..............the only time I will ever do that, is when they make it out as a fact that prayer does not work, then I will challenge them

Edited July 9, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[+Sherapy]

With you speaking of messages of a supreme power..........well I see god as a supreme power too, difference is I pray..and praying gives me a sense of comfort..whats not to understand about that?

Heck I do not understand why a man has to lift the toilet seat up when peeing..and still misses the bowl LOL

I don't understand why people can't look after their kids and home properly

I do not understand why anyone can drink non stop day in day out

I can make a list. but if like the man peeing and lifting the toilet seat up is harmless........I will not debate over it...LOL

I pray and I don't wish to push my beliefs on to anyone........at least I can admit that all it is - wishful and hopeful thinking....I never state it is fact <----------therefore trying to debate it with me is pointless in that case

I hold no respect for anyone that tries to debate something with me, that I have tried to show how I do not call it a fact, nor am I arrogant to think I am so special to think that god listens to just me and only me...that is pure COBBLERS.....and anyone that ties to debate with me over that, its a waste of time........Id see over it if I were making it all out as fact

I'll tell you one thing Doc, I am smart enough to be able to view other views and come to an understanding.. I undestand fully why people do not believe in prayer, I sure do not think I have a right to keep at them, pull up their posts for the sake of arguement..............the only time I will ever do that, is when they make it out as a fact that prayer does not work, then I will challenge them

you do make a really good point geri, if I may just say something here, many will pray to be spared from some disaster and when the disaster avoids them and hits another will thank god for it...

quite frankly i dont understand that ....mean spirited i'd say... .....

so when you say harmful, no not in the way you use it..I'd agree its a positive and holds a positive example but it has had to be established ...

because most of the time prayers are to save an arrogant soul from themselves or to be spared some eternal hellfire or to impose ones pov on another, and it would be very nice if more put the amount of thought into things as you do, but ....

and doc, i can't understand how a man misses his cue for saying 'you are right dear now that i'm having another look i see where i am wrong..."....LOL J/K

Edited July 9, 2009 by Tangerine Sheri

[GIDEON MAGE]

That's good to hear. But "nodes" don't really answer the original question:

Why would you pray to God if God is ALWAYS going to do what he wants to anyway? If God always does what he thinks is right, then our praying is pointless.

I am going to mention a famous quote by Wallace Wattles. This is not an attempt to convert anyone to anything, nor do I believe in any religion that seeks converts. Just so that you may you may understand where i am coming from,,,

There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made,

and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

A thought, in this substance, produces the thing that is imaged by the thought.

Man can form things in his thought, and, by impressing his thought upon formless substance,

can cause the thing he thinks about to be created.

--Wallace D. Wattles

from "The Science of Getting Rich"

there are hundreds of websites. this is the book that "The Secret" was based on, I view God as a positive expanding energy force. When you enrich your life, you are enriching God. It is the xiaqns that follow the n.t. "not a sparrow falls from the tree" nonsense.

[Dr. D]

With you speaking of messages of a supreme power..........well I see god as a supreme power too, difference is I pray..and praying gives me a sense of comfort..whats not to understand about that?

Heck I do not understand why a man has to lift the toilet seat up when peeing..and still misses the bowl LOL

Did I ever say you shouldn't pray? Did I ever say that ANYONE shouldn't pray?

I don't understand why people can't look after their kids and home properly

I do not understand why anyone can drink non stop day in day out

I can make a list. but if like the man peeing and lifting the toilet seat up is harmless........I will not debate over it...LOL

I think each person has things they don't understand and if the toilet seat doesn't bother you it only proves that you are my kind of woman.

I pray and I don't wish to push my beliefs on to anyone........at least I can admit that all it is - wishful and hopeful thinking....I never state it is fact <----------therefore trying to debate it with me is pointless in that case

I wasn't trying to debate it with anyone. I merely stated that I didn't understand it.

I hold no respect for anyone that tries to debate something with me, that I have tried to show how I do not call it a fact, nor am I arrogant to think I am so special to think that god listens to just me and only me...that is pure COBBLERS.....and anyone that ties to debate with me over that, its a waste of time........Id see over it if I were making it all out as fact

Nor did I make such assumptions or try to debate the issue with you.

I'll tell you one thing Doc, I am smart enough to be able to view other views and come to an understanding.. I undestand fully why people do not believe in prayer, I sure do not think I have a right to keep at them, pull up their posts for the sake of arguement..............the only time I will ever do that, is when they make it out as a fact that prayer does not work, then I will challenge them

There are no facts concerning prayer . . . . or religion . . . . or much else that we believe in at that spirtual plane . . . .

[Dr. D]

you do make a really good point geri, if I may just say something here, many will pray to be spared from some disaster and when the disaster avoids them and hits another will thank god for it...

quite frankly i dont understand that ....mean spirited i'd say... .....

so when you say harmful, no not in the way you use it..I'd agree its a positive and holds a positive example but it has had to be established ...

because most of the time prayers are to save an arrogant soul from themselves or to be spared some eternal hellfire or to impose ones pov on another, and it would be very nice if more put the amount of thought into things as you do, but ....

and doc, i can't understand how a man misses his cue for saying 'you are right dear now that i'm having another look i see where i am wrong..."....LOL J/K

It is not pride that brings me to ask what is wrong with saying that there is something I don't understand?

Is it better to pretend to be all-knowing when I am not?

I merely said that I do not understand why people pray. I ask no one to apologize for praying . . . . so am I now required to apologize because I don't or fail to understand why others do?

[Beckys_Mom]

I wasn't trying to debate it with anyone. I merely stated that I didn't understand it.

I apologize

Ohh and I agree there are NO facts in religion or prayer.that is something I cannot ever bring myself to say..because it would be so very stupid to think they had facts

The toilet seat thing doesnt annoy me, because it takes litterally secs to put it back.....I find it funny that when they lift it up to pee, they STILL miss the bowl LMAO..maybe men are funnier than women

[Beckys_Mom]

you do make a really good point geri, if I may just say something here, many will pray to be spared from some disaster and when the disaster avoids them and hits another will thank god for it...

quite frankly i dont understand that ....mean spirited i'd say... .....

so when you say harmful, no not in the way you use it..I'd agree its a positive and holds a positive example but it has had to be established ...

Prayers can also be seen as a form of medetation....if that makes sense?

But I stand by a fact of life...Prayers have no facts, just like religion...We cannot ever prove either....and I too get annoyed when anyone makes it out as fact...

[Beckys_Mom]

I merely said that I do not understand why people pray. I ask no one to apologize for praying . . . . so am I now required to apologize because I don't or fail to understand why others do?

No but I did just apologize for picking you up wrong

I've had a cranky day and it wes one of those things doc

[+Sherapy]

It is not pride that brings me to ask what is wrong with saying that there is something I don't understand?

Is it better to pretend to be all-knowing when I am not?

I merely said that I do not understand why people pray. I ask no one to apologize for praying . . . . so am I now required to apologize because I don't or fail to understand why others do?

my apologies David, i was trying to lighten things up.. my joke was in very poor taste

Edited July 9, 2009 by Tangerine Sheri

[Dr. D]

I apologize

Ohh and I agree there are NO facts in religion or prayer.that is something I cannot ever bring myself to say..because it would be so very stupid to think they had facts

The toilet seat thing doesnt annoy me, because it takes litterally secs to put it back.....I find it funny that when they lift it up to pee, they STILL miss the bowl LMAO..maybe men are funnier than women

And most certainly I apologize if anything I said was poorly worded to give the wrong impression. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive about this topic frankly because the most important prayers of my life went completely unanswered. But that is a personal experience and thankfully does not match yours.

I think women should leave the toilet seat up. Why should it always be down? Men never complain that the woman doesn't leave the seat up . . . . Concerning the latter point, women are designed for the toilet, men are not. In my case, accuracy is always difficult at long range.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Dr. D

[Beckys_Mom]

And most certainly I apologize if anything I said was poorly worded to give the wrong impression. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive about this topic frankly because the most important prayers of my life went completely unanswered. But that is a personal experience and thankfully does not match yours.

Dr D...I am sorry for your loss and quite frankly, I find your reasons very much understandable.......God doesn’t always answer my prayers either.......I can't stand it when some religious people will then say in these cases - >> Oh but then it must not be his plan or will

Your wife dying was painful I can imagine, and to tell you the truth, I too might have felt the same about prayers if it happened to me..........actually, I have let my faith slip before due to things that hurt me..

It is frustrating to hear a religious person say in these cases – Well they are in gods hands now, they are in heaven, a better place.......this in no way makes it all seem OK[

My prayers are not to ask god to make things happen for me...no.....just a guidance thing. and a form of meditation...

think women should leave the toilet seat up. Why should it always be down? Men never complain that the woman doesn't leave the seat up . . . . Concerning the latter point, women are designed for the toilet, men are not. In my case, accuracy is always difficult at long range.

It never bothers me if it is up or down...but remember, men need the seat too, after all you all do poop LOL so y'all need something comfy to sit on right? therefor you need to have the seat down lol

Edited July 9, 2009 by Beckys_Mom

[+Sherapy]

Prayers can also be seen as a form of medetation....if that makes sense?

But I stand by a fact of life...Prayers have no facts, just like religion...We cannot ever prove either....and I too get annoyed when anyone makes it out as fact...

meditation for me is about letting it all go, no expectations just going with the flow ..about being at peace no matter whats going on in your life ...exceptance void of expectation...........

is this what you mean by prayer????

[Lt_Ripley]

Bluefing, BM, and whoever else believes that God answers prayers...I have a question.

People have bin praying long before the Christian god was known of, even before monotheistic belief and to this day people pray to many different supernatural forces seeking aid and at one point in time or another somebody has claimed that their supernatural force helped them.

How do you account for the claims made by others who's belief conflicts with your own?

And another question...

If you believe God to be all knowing, benevolent, and always right or in otherwise perfect then God would always know the right thing to do, have the perfect plan, and knew the circumstances and conditions of your prayers long before you even conceived them. Praying for aid implies that you wish to change God's mind, convince him to alter his plan, or in otherwise intervene were he wasn't going to...if God were to answer such a prayer it shows that his original intentions were faulty or your plea for aid superceded his original plan. If you believe he didn't help you not because you asked but believe he helped because that was apart of his plan then asking for something that was already going to happen anyways seems pointless to me.

Simply put, how can a perfect mind be changed?

How do you account for the claims made by others who's belief conflicts with your own?

For me that would be people who say God answers prayer. I don't believe God does. ( then again I'm not God either ) I still like the standard reply of the healing of amputees. Through history not one has had a limb grow back. So if God could do anything ( as quoted in the bible through the name of Jesus ) without a doubt somewhere an amputee would have gotten a limb to grow back.

a perfect mind can't be changed .. as was said it then wouldn't be perfect.

I still 'pray' , but I don't view it as persuading any perfect energy. It's more about me. I don't 'pray' in the usual sense anyway. I talk. hopefully something is listening .. even if it's just a part of me. It's like when you have a problem and you talk it out.. or frustrated and you yell at the cat .. who just stares at you .lol. stress relieving , it gets to the core of what I'm feeling cause I may not understand why I'm feeling the way I do or it helps me to solve a problem and some days you just need to vent . verbal meditation.

If I happen to list a desire and it be met ? then prayer or not that was in my path... prayer had nothing to do with it. but that's me .

[Beckys_Mom]

meditation for me is about letting it all go, no expectations just going with the flow ..about being at peace no matter whats going on in your life ...exceptance void of expectation...........

is this what you mean by prayer????

In a way yes I do as it happens......its just me talking...looking to find my inner strength ect......I like it lol

[+Sherapy]

In a way yes I do as it happens......its just me talking...looking to find my inner strength ect......I like it lol

very kool geri...this form of prayer is not about supplicating...

[Quake]

All gods are THE God , There is one all powerful entity , many people just view him in a different way , it doesn't matter how you find or view God , just that you recognize that the all powerful god IS in fact there.