More Best Evidence for aliens

[Braveheart]

Here's the story I spoke of. UFO hunters didn't discover and start the investigation of this story, they simply covered it and tried to explain it. Whether or not your opinion on UFO hunters matches mine, they do bring forth some good evidence. Obviously the majority here don't watch it. Yes some episodes are total bull and contain utter crap, but you can't judge the entire show by those.

Anyway, please read: http://ufoevidence.conforums.com/index.cgi...;num=1057372945

This is the object he saw falling from a UFO before it took off into space. He recovered it:

Now I can see everyone saying "it fell off a meteoroid", but the thing is when the tests where done, scientists showed it is not made by a natural occurrence, rather it was engineered or manufactured by someone. The contents of the object are not found on Earth.

Also, bit off topic from that, when people say "aliens don't/wouldn't/can't come here" what if they send probes like we do, to planets? Every UFO doesn't need to be manned by little green men. They could be doing what we've been doing for years.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Braveheart

[Ra_Sun-God]

Im pretty sure that most video/pictures/reported "triangular shaped UFOs" in the night sky are aircraft formation flights.

We have 3 options about these strange "Triangular shaped UFO's":

1) It could be human made test flying crafts "Secret Black Projects" (built at Area 51?), or

2) They are piloted by Extraterrestrial beings who comes from other planets from other star systems , or a combination of 1) and 2) that lead to 3)

3) The Government/Military cooperate with Extraterrestrial beings, the Government/Military learn some of the alien technology "Secret Black Projects", and in return the Government/Military allow these aliens to abduct humans

Well, to me 1) is out of the question since these UFO's operate at extremely high speeds at very low altittude, and maneuvrements that Earth crafts simply are not able to, suddenly stops in the air, and suddenly change sharp angle directions still while at extremely high speeds....

And guess what, to me it seems to be both 2) and 3) when speaking of UFO's piloted by ET's and abductions!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUki-07sp2E

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case187.htm And guess what Dear skeptics, Kelly Cahill on Youtube she is on other sites that is serious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-ou0Mv2DQ

Edited August 6, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

Given that Bill Birnes runs the magazine that's embroidered on his hat, I'm sure it's in his interests to project the illusion that the 'case is closed'.

I don't know how much input he, or any of the other guys have in the show's production, but if TAPS and Ghost Hunters are anything to go by, it's definitely part of the formula to present a false impression of 100% conclusive proof of [insert appropriate paranormal phenomena here] as the series progresses.

It's worth paying attention to what Pat has to say to Bill at 3:28 onwards in this video-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D71sALVvhQE

Bill's 'proof' for this claim? Some UFO footage, 2 unrelated patients with elevated CK levels, the 'fact' that doctors have no 'explanation' for this, and possibly the interviewee being ex-military fits with Bill's own paranoid delllusions.

Elevated CK levels doesn't necessarily mean that there is no explanation. As with many things that pop up in medicine, elevated CK can be from a few things, all of which need to be properly investigated before being confirmed or eliminated. Hypothyroidism is one such example I know of (in at least one rare case values over 8000 u/i were recorded). Something I'm sure the doctors would have said, and didn't make it to the final edit.

EXACTLY!

That Youtube of yours just show that these ET's have supernatural power, so they "Freeze" humans so humans are not able to move....

Is'nt that amazing that ET's visit the Earth?

[Ra_Sun-God]

I am sure there are those who will claim that weather balloons can do 10,000 mph. After all, they have claimed that planets were the UFOs the circled around aircraft as they were tracked on radar doing so.

Having a nice time in Las Vegas at the Tuskegee convention.

I agree, it is so unbelievable that people actually do exist who say that balloons can do 10,000 mph There are even skeptics who claim that man have never been on the moon!

I wish you a nice time in Las Vegas Skyeagle What is Tuskegee convention about?

[Ra_Sun-God]

UFOs are, however sighted around the clock, somewhere in the world. One is forced therefore forced to the conclusion that the intelligence behind the UFOS is not extraterrestrial but paraphysical..."

I think you typed "not" and "paraphysical" by mistake Evangium dude , please don't hurry that much.

You're right, the UFO's is of extraterrestrial origin and they do travel between their own home-planets from other star systems and the Earth.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T58lAgZatg

And guess what:

1) The Secret Shadow Government "Majestic 12" tried to use the Weather Balloon cover up story in attempt to Cover up the crashed ET-spacecraft near Roswell in 1947, and the Air Force later admitted that huge mistake, and

2) They tried also to cover up the two crash sites (too powerful to be made by weather balloons) by saying there were 11 crash sites but there are no such 11 crash sites, and

3) Also they tried the test dummy cover up story but the test dummies were first used in the 1950'ies, and

4) The scientists finally confirmed this year 2009 that the crashed UFO debris is of extraterrestrial origin:

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0509/ROSWELL-DEBRIS.php

ROSWELL DEBRIS CONFIRMED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL: Lab Located, Scientists Named

by Anthony Bragalia

Posted: 11:44 May 26, 2009

Newly discovered documents reveal that in the months immediately following the purported 1947 UFO crash at Roswell, secret government studies began on a material that was previously unknown to science. The "memory metal" that was studied precisely matches some of the debris material reported by several witnesses to the crash. Evidence shows that -under military direction- these unique metal studies were undertaken by a contracted laboratory that possessed advanced technical capabilities that the U.S. government itself did not have at the time. A former high-level scientist employed by the involved laboratory has offered a confession that he was tasked to study the crashed UFO material. Information provided by two U.S. Air Force Generals also offers direct support for this discovery.

The documents suggest that after the crash, the US government attempted to develop a unique material that is today referred to as memory metal. This shape-recovery alloy was reported by several witnesses to the Roswell crash in the summer of 1947. The lightweight "morphing" material was able to be crumpled or deformed and then return itself instantly and seamlessly to its original state. The metallurgical discoveries that resulted from these studies were then "seeded" for further technology development to other government agencies (including NASA) and through a series of military contracts to universities and industry.

The laboratory contracted by Wright Patterson Air Force Base to perform these studies was Battelle Memorial Institute in Columbus, OH. It has been credibly reported that Wright Patterson Air Force Base was the very base where the Roswell UFO debris was flown after the crash.

http://www.video4viet.com/watchvideo.html?...l+Debris+Tested

Edited August 6, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[NigelTM]

Here's the story I spoke of. UFO hunters didn't discover and start the investigation of this story, they simply covered it and tried to explain it. Whether or not your opinion on UFO hunters matches mine, they do bring forth some good evidence. Obviously the majority here don't watch it. Yes some episodes are total bull and contain utter crap, but you can't judge the entire show by those.

Anyway, please read: http://ufoevidence.conforums.com/index.cgi...;num=1057372945

I stopped reading when I came across this part:

We need 20,000 dollars to finish the isotope abundance ratio tests.

Yep, a plea for money makes them more credible.

This is the object he saw falling from a UFO before it took off into space. He recovered it:

It may be the object he says he saw falling from a UFO.....

Now I can see everyone saying "it fell off a meteoroid", but the thing is when the tests where done, scientists showed it is not made by a natural occurrence, rather it was engineered or manufactured by someone. The contents of the object are not found on Earth.

The tests aren't completed though by the guy's own admission. So I think it's premature to say it's impossible the object was made on Earth. And if it was engineered or manufactured by someone, what's the simplest explanation?

Also, bit off topic from that, when people say "aliens don't/wouldn't/can't come here" what if they send probes like we do, to planets? Every UFO doesn't need to be manned by little green men. They could be doing what we've been doing for years.

Things like von Neumann machines have been brought up before, and of course that's a possibility. It's possible UFOs are able to transport across space like in Star Trek. Speculation does not equal evidence however.

[Hazzard]

I stopped reading when I came across this part:

We need 20,000 dollars to finish the isotope abundance ratio tests.

Yep, a plea for money makes them more credible.

The tests aren't completed though by the guy's own admission.

So, once again, and this seems to be the bottom line with the all believers "proof" of ET on Earth.... At best, we have something leading to no definite result... inconclusive.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Hazzard

[Evangium]

EXACTLY!

That Youtube of yours just show that these ET's have supernatural power, so they "Freeze" humans so humans are not able to move....

Is'nt that amazing that ET's visit the Earth?

Interesting that you chose that word that I've bolded and enlarged, then in your next post try to do some clumsy word trickery regarding a direct quote I posted....

[NigelTM]

Yep, a plea for money makes them more credible.

The tests aren't completed though by the guy's own admission.

So, once again, and this seems to be the bottom line with the all believers "proof" of ET on Earth.... At best, we have something leading to no definite result... inconclusive.

My first reaction to this: Hazz, you're being awfully generous here, but on second thought, you're precisely right. Because at best, it's inconclusive. At worst, other conclusions may be drawn (but we don't want to jump to them).

[weatherman]

This is an article Hubble from Wikipedia about the Hubble Deep Field taken from the Hubble Space Telescope. It shows nearly 3,000 galaxies in only a fraction of the sky. Have heard it described that there are tens of thousands of galaxies in the universe and for anyone to think the Earth is the only place where life exists is, to say the least, arrogant.

Edited August 7, 2009 by weatherman

[Evangium]

Yep, a plea for money makes them more credible.

The tests aren't completed though by the guy's own admission.

So, once again, and this seems to be the bottom line with the all believers "proof" of ET on Earth.... At best, we have something leading to no definite result... inconclusive.

Sleepy is about right. Perhaps you should ask the mods to edit the title to "More of the Same Inconclusive Evidence..."

From the old thread, our brief coverage of the Bob White Artifact Link

And from a Bob White thread that sprung up round the same time (funny how that happens a lot...) Link

So why do they need $20,000?

Edited August 7, 2009 by Evangium

[Ra_Sun-God]

Interesting that you chose that word that I've bolded and enlarged, then in your next post try to do some clumsy word trickery regarding a direct quote I posted....

What is wrong with you???? I just assumed you typed wrong. Well then correct me if I'm wrong about that. So you suddenly became a skeptic huh?

I've got something interesting description about some Greys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greys

The term Greys denotes a style of alleged intelligent, humanoid, extraterrestrials appearing in folklore, popular culture, and the pseudoscience of ufology. In particular, they are a common motif in close encounter and alien abduction claims. UFO believers sometimes refer to them as "Zeta Reticulans" or "Reticulans", due to their supposed involvement with the Betty and Barney Hill abduction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_Barney_Hill_abduction

Betty and Barney Hill were an American married couple who rose to fame after they claimed to have been abducted by extraterrestrials on September 19–20, 1961.

The couple's story, commonly called the Hill Abduction, and occasionally the Zeta Reticuli Incident, was that they were victims of a UFO abduction. Theirs was the first widely-publicized claim of alien abduction, adapted into the best-selling 1966 book The Interrupted Journey and a television movie.

http://www.ufocasebook.com/Hill.html

http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmichills.html

http://ufos.about.com/od/aliensalienabduction/p/hill.htm

UFO Confirmed by Radar:

Betty and Barney finally arrived home safely. After seeing the UFO, the rest of their trip home had been uneventful. They were tired from their journey, and immediately went to bed. When Betty awoke the next day, she telephoned Janet, her sister, and told her about the strange object they had seen. Janet urged her to call Pease Air Force Base, and tell them what her and Barney had seen. After hearing Betty's report, Major Paul W. Henderson, told her:

"The UFO was also confirmed by our radar."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joeqb92SVuw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Sf_gezJ1s...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUEGQW3zkiw...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-mRfUFxAwc...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXsE8u4UV1w...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieZX_d6-ihc...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCHie4vRHw...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0RgoyjYhlI...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FmxFEn4ggE...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTorQqj6pfI...feature=related

And the good news is that the scientists have confirmed the Roswell UFO crash debris as extraterrestrial! Is'nt that cool?????

[badeskov]

So why do they need $20,000?

The guy in charge needs a new bathroom.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[Ra_Sun-God]

But i have no reason to think we have been in contact what-so-ever.

And another side-point. Assuming that the steriotypical depiction of aliens in the media and in contactee accounts (Greys with big heads, eyes, long limbs, limited digits etc) is based in some sort of truth. Who says these creatures are alien beings from distant solar systems ? Projecting human evoution from apes, through proto-humans to modern day homo sapiens and beyond... is it rediculous to propose that we may one day look like greys ? For years, in an evolutionary sence, humanity in general has been:

Getting progresively taller

Losing body hair

Increasing cranial size

Losing facial features (Eye brow ridges, nasal flanks, bone mass)

And it wouldnt be wild to speculate that as our intelects grow, and our need for physical strength diminishes due to our crippling dependance on technology, that we may become more slender, require less fingers, an evolve larger, more complex brains, craniums and eyes. Why not postulate that "Greys" could actually be the later stages of human development. I mean its no more or less possible than the theory that they are visitors from other worlds. And no more or less probable than the theory that we are indeed alone. So, assuming that greys are real, and that they contact humans from advanced flying craft, what would be the biggest scientific problem in them visiting us ?

Well, for ET's the answer is FTL travel. For evolved humans, it would be time travel. Both unatainable to us at the moment, and for me, both just as likely or unlikely.

I guess what im trying to say is, we need to keep an open mind. Alien life may not exist. Alien life may exist way outwith our grasp. Alien life might visit us daily, or could actually be an evolution of our selves or if the cosmic string theory of multiple universes is correct it could be somthing different altogether.

I think the media, the internet, conspiracy theorists, untrustworthy govornments and peoples natural fascination with the strange and obscure has turned the serious issue of extraterrestrial life into a huge minefield of speculation and fantasy. Peoples emotions are now tied up in it and a serious, stable and scientific approach to the issue is all but lost alot of the time.

So, where do i stand? Simple. I have no fu**ing clue. Aliens exist somewhere. Apart from that anything i ould say or hope would be just that. Hope.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to an idiot rambling on.

Welcome new boy And you are not an idiot.

Well, to me Greys do exist all over the Universe (this Universe might not be the only Universe), also I do think human races also do exist all over the Universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBK0SYGKa2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7ShF1zbMeI...feature=related

Maybe the Greys did evolved from humans through time, who knows. The Greys might have found a way of travel through the whole Universe in a "Split second", and visit the Earth, and it also seems they do abduct humans

http://www.ufocasebook.com/Cahill.html

And I don't think these abductees are liars.

UFO Radiation reports on the ground too http://www.geocities.com/topsecretresearch/radiation.html

And then the scientists confirmed that the Roswell crashed UFO debris is of Extraterrestrial origin:

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0509/ROSWELL-DEBRIS.php

http://milocorp.net/videos/view.php?id=gjQgqZ6eMP4

Edited August 7, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Evangium]

Ra, I have no idea where you got the idea that I'd suddenly 'become' a skeptic.

It's not something that just happens one fine morning where you wake up, greet the sun and say "Today, I am a skeptic."

It takes years of exposure to, in particular, those believers who seem to think that by virtue of possessing an empty head, they somehow are more open-minded than the general population (who incidently seem to, themsleves/emptyheads, make up what constitutes as ufology/paranormalia's general population).

The sad truth is that an empty head doesn't equate to an open mind, it just means there's a hell of a lot more space in the attic to clutter up with useless junk.

Which usually comes tumbling out in a big ol' mess whenever the subject of ufooz'n'graliens comes up. And it generally ends with reference to some kind of audio-visual media, that if I'd just watch, would change my life in x number of minutes. Interestingly I've heard similar claims from Time-Share salesmen and door-to-door missionaries...

As for Bragalia, I'm well aware of his work. Suffice to say as entertaining as his articles are, he really doesn't provide much by way of proof. Particularly when mentioning pictures and paintings, done by famous photographers, that have conveniently gone missing many years ago. Yes, the sad truth is Bragalia is just another guy with extraordinary claims and no actual proof -

"A year long effort was made by this author to locate Battelle's First and Second Progress Reports on memory metal. Though footnotes have been located to the reports in military sponsored studies on memory metal, access to the actual reports remains impossible."

How convinient. I wonder how the studies from 1939 - 1947, into titanium nickel alloys fit into this then? Obviously, for the sake of Bragalia's story, they don't. Start at wikipedia Link

And follow the bouncing ball from there. Luckily I was researching something sort of related, so I won't ask for the 2 hours of my life back, but instead of doing whatever it is that usually leads you to youtube and here, perhaps you might like to try something different for a change

As for what I wrote, I didn't write it, I was merely quoting from a 30 year old flying saucer magazine, a good point made by one of its readers. So no mistakes made by me.

He does make a good point that all this aliens and spaceships stuff is entirely based on how we humans would go about travelling into space with the aid of our machines.

What's to say that a spacefaring race of ET explorers even has need for what we'd consider a physical form, if they had advanced their technology so far as to no longer be bound by the laws of reality?

Given that it is a valid point that lightspeed is still too slow to make intergalactic travel feasible or viable, without totally abandoning your home planet and resources.

Of course the counter argument well always be advanced tech=prolonged lifespans=generational space travel (as long as they've discovered the secret to free energy). But then what's the point? A spaceship can only carry a finite amount of crew, supplies and resources, no matter how 'advanced' you are. And if you're that advanced that you're creating something out of nothing, why would you be dependent on physical technology then?

Edited August 7, 2009 by Evangium

[Ra_Sun-God]

Ra, I have no idea where you got the idea that I'd suddenly 'become' a skeptic.

It's not something that just happens one fine morning where you wake up, greet the sun and say "Today, I am a skeptic."

It takes years of exposure to, in particular, those believers who seem to think that by virtue of possessing an empty head, they somehow are more open-minded than the general population (who incidently seem to, themsleves/emptyheads, make up what constitutes as ufology/paranormalia's general population).

The sad truth is that an empty head doesn't equate to an open mind, it just means there's a hell of a lot more space in the attic to clutter up with useless junk.

Which usually comes tumbling out in a big ol' mess whenever the subject of ufooz'n'graliens comes up. And it generally ends with reference to some kind of audio-visual media, that if I'd just watch, would change my life in x number of minutes. Interestingly I've heard similar claims from Time-Share salesmen and door-to-door missionaries...

As for Bragalia, I'm well aware of his work. Suffice to say as entertaining as his articles are, he really doesn't provide much by way of proof. Particularly when mentioning pictures and paintings, done by famous photographers, that have conveniently gone missing many years ago. Yes, the sad truth is Bragalia is just another guy with extraordinary claims and no actual proof -

"A year long effort was made by this author to locate Battelle's First and Second Progress Reports on memory metal. Though footnotes have been located to the reports in military sponsored studies on memory metal, access to the actual reports remains impossible."

How convinient. I wonder how the studies from 1939 - 1947, into titanium nickel alloys fit into this then? Obviously, for the sake of Bragalia's story, they don't. Start at wikipedia Link

And follow the bouncing ball from there. Luckily I was researching something sort of related, so I won't ask for the 2 hours of my life back, but instead of doing whatever it is that usually leads you to youtube and here, perhaps you might like to try something different for a change

As for what I wrote, I didn't write it, I was merely quoting from a 30 year old flying saucer magazine, a good point made by one of its readers. So no mistakes made by me.

He does make a good point that all this aliens and spaceships stuff is entirely based on how we humans would go about travelling into space with the aid of our machines.

What's to say that a spacefaring race of ET explorers even has need for what we'd consider a physical form, if they had advanced their technology so far as to no longer be bound by the laws of reality?

Given that it is a valid point that lightspeed is still too slow to make intergalactic travel feasible or viable, without totally abandoning your home planet and resources.

Of course the counter argument well always be advanced tech=prolonged lifespans=generational space travel (as long as they've discovered the secret to free energy). But then what's the point? A spaceship can only carry a finite amount of crew, supplies and resources, no matter how 'advanced' you are. And if you're that advanced that you're creating something out of nothing, why would you be dependent on physical technology then?

You are so wrong Evangium. Bragalia is not ascientists. It is the other persons who are the scientists examined the Roswell debris who are the scientists, not Bragalia. Bragalia is not a scientists. Oh boy, you have not done a ressearch job at all.....

Are you trying to cover up the Roswell crashed UFO debris? Then you are doing a very bad job!

You have to accept that the scientists confirmed the Roswell crashed UFO debris is of Extraterrestrial origin!

http://www.theufochronicles.com/2009/05/ro...nfirmed-as.html

ROSWELL DEBRIS CONFIRMED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL: Lab Located, Scientists Named

by Anthony Bragalia

Posted: 11:44 May 26, 2009

Newly discovered documents reveal that in the months immediately following the purported 1947 UFO crash at Roswell, secret government studies began on a material that was previously unknown to science. The "memory metal" that was studied precisely matches some of the debris material reported by several witnesses to the crash. Evidence shows that -under military direction- these unique metal studies were undertaken by a contracted laboratory that possessed advanced technical capabilities that the U.S. government itself did not have at the time. A former high-level scientist employed by the involved laboratory has offered a confession that he was tasked to study the crashed UFO material. Information provided by two U.S. Air Force Generals also offers direct support for this discovery.

The documents suggest that after the crash, the US government attempted to develop a unique material that is today referred to as memory metal. This shape-recovery alloy was reported by several witnesses to the Roswell crash in the summer of 1947. The lightweight "morphing" material was able to be crumpled or deformed and then return itself instantly and seamlessly to its original state. The metallurgical discoveries that resulted from these studies were then "seeded" for further technology development to other government agencies (including NASA) and through a series of military contracts to universities and industry.

The laboratory contracted by Wright Patterson Air Force Base to perform these studies was Battelle Memorial Institute in Columbus, OH. It has been credibly reported that Wright Patterson Air Force Base was the very base where the Roswell UFO debris was flown after the crash.

BATTELLE MEMORIAL INSTITUTE:

WRIGHT PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE:

Recently obtained documents reveal that these studies for Wright Patterson were conducted at Battelle under the direction of Dr. Howard C. Cross. In the late 1940's, H.C Cross was Battelle's expert scientist in exotic metallurgy and Titanium alloy research.

Curiously –although he was a research metallurgist- Cross was also Battelle’s "point person" in later studies on UFOs that Battelle conducted in the early 1950's for the U.S. Air Force's official UFO study, Project Bluebook. Cross is likely an author of Project Bluebook's still-missing Report Number 13. He is also the author of a strange letter from Battelle to Wright Patterson known as "The Pentacle" memo. Dr. Cross' historic role will be detailed in a forthcoming article.

Founded in 1929, Battelle is engaged in research, development and commercialization of technological innovation. They specialize in materials science and engineering, life sciences, energy science and national security. Battelle contract operates many of our country's National Laboratories. This includes some of the U.S.'s most sensitive installations such as Oak Ridge, Lawrence Livermore and Brookhaven laboratories. Battelle is headquartered in proximity to Wright Patterson- and remains one of the nation's leading defense contractors. Their metallurgical capabilities and technical talent continue to be recognized as world-class.

You see, the text says:

ROSWELL DEBRIS CONFIRMED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL: Lab Located, Scientists Named

by Anthony Bragalia

So you see, Bragalia is not one of the scientists, tsk tsk tsk. Bad job of you Evangium. Nice try, I wish you better luck next time....

And guess what, you are also wrong about Youtube, Youtube use serious UFO reports since they are to find at other sites too! Once again, nice try

Edited August 7, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Ra_Sun-God]

Let me put this well to you Evangium:

To back up the scientists conclusion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_accou...ll_UFO_incident

Material with exotic properties

There were numerous others who claimed to have seen the debris, and many of them described various types of material having exotic physical qualities. One was a tinfoil-like material which when crumpled up would regain its original shape.

Brazel Jr.: "The odd thing about this foil was that you could wrinkle it and lay it back down and it immediately resumed its original shape. It was quite pliable, yet you couldn't crease or bend it like ordinary metal. It was almost more like a plastic of some sort except that it was definitely metallic in nature."

Marcel Sr.: "[There were] many bits of metallic foil, that looked like, but was not, aluminum, for no matter how often one crumpled it, it regained its original shape again. Besides that, they were indestructible, even with a sledgehammer."

Sgt. Robert Smith, Roswell 1st Air Transport Unit: "When you crumpled it up, it then laid back out; and when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane, and it crackled when it was let out. There were no creases."

Others had similar accounts.

Another unusual aspect to some of the material was its strength.

Marcel Sr.: "This particular piece of metal was, I would say, about two feet long and perhaps a foot wide. See, that stuff weighs nothing, it's so thin, it isn't any thicker than the tinfoil in a pack of cigarettes. So I tried to bend the stuff, it wouldn't bend. We even tried making a dent in it with a 16-pound sledge hammer, and there was still no dent in it."

Sgt. Lewis Rickett: "There was a slightly curved piece of metal, real light. It was about six inches by twelve or fourteen inches. Very light. I crouched down and tried to snap it... It didn't feel like plastic and I never saw a piece of metal this thin that you couldn't break."

Some also described pencil-like sticks with unusual qualities:

Marcel Sr.: "[There were] small beams about three-eighths or a half inch square with some sort of hieroglyphics on them that nobody could decipher. These looked something like balsa wood, and were of about the same weight, except that they were not wood at all. They were very hard, although flexible, and would not burn." More detailed quote above.

Brazel Jr.: Similar quote as Marcel's, also given above. Also, "I couldn't break it and I couldn't whittle it with my pocketknife."

Loretta Proctor: "The piece he [Mac Brazel] brought looked like a kind of tan, light brown plastic. It was very lightweight, like balsa wood. It wasn't a large piece, maybe about four inches long, maybe just a little larger than a pencil. We cut on it with a knife and would hold a match on it, and it wouldn't burn. We knew it wasn't wood. It was smooth like plastic."

Jesse Marcel Jr.: "...there were fragments of what appeared to be I-beams. On the inner surface of the I-beam, there appeared to be a type of writing. This writing was a purple-violet hue, and it had an embossed appearance. The figures were composed of curved geometric shapes. It had no resemblance to Russian, Japanese or any other foreign language. It resembled hieroglyphics, but it had no animal-like characters." Another quote above.

Lt. Robert Shirkey: "Standing only three feet from the passing procession, we saw boxes full of aluminum-looking metal pieces being carried to the B-29. ...sticking up in one corner of the box carried by Major Marcel was a small 'I-beam' with hieroglyphic-like markings on the inner flange, in some kind of weird color, not black, not purple, but a close approximation of the two." "I could see the hieroglyphs clearly, the signs were in relief and stood out."

Edited August 7, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[TSS]

Ra, I have no idea where you got the idea that I'd suddenly 'become' a skeptic.

It's not something that just happens one fine morning where you wake up, greet the sun and say "Today, I am a skeptic."

It takes years of exposure to, in particular, those believers who seem to think that by virtue of possessing an empty head, they somehow are more open-minded than the general population (who incidently seem to, themsleves/emptyheads, make up what constitutes as ufology/paranormalia's general population).

The sad truth is that an empty head doesn't equate to an open mind, it just means there's a hell of a lot more space in the attic to clutter up with useless junk.

Which usually comes tumbling out in a big ol' mess whenever the subject of ufooz'n'graliens comes up. And it generally ends with reference to some kind of audio-visual media, that if I'd just watch, would change my life in x number of minutes. Interestingly I've heard similar claims from Time-Share salesmen and door-to-door missionaries...

That was post of the day for me, and perfectly sums up everything that is wrong with the subject! ......and why, if it's allowed to be continued to be led by belief, and agenda, will have not moved on one iota in another 50, 100 plus years....

[Evangium]

Ra, you fail miserably at Skyeagle's game.

Like I said before, it takes years of exposure to a particular type of believer to truly turn one into a skeptic.

Big fonts and silly little word games just confirm that there's still a ton of room in your attic...

Ah well, get drunk, watch youtube, believe in aliens, make a donkey of yourself on Unexplained Mysteries Forums, do whatever floats your boat...

But until you're willing to grow up, and try to do just a smidgeon of real research and critical thinking, our future conversations will be very painfully short.

I honestly cannot see the point in pursuing a discussion with somebody who genuinely doesn't put any thought in to the garbage that he insists on posting, and makes it evident that an intelligent discourse is not as desirable to him as some type of childish arguing and tit for tat is.

[Ra_Sun-God]

Ra, you fail miserably at Skyeagle's game.

Like I said before, it takes years of exposure to a particular type of believer to truly turn one into a skeptic.

Big fonts and silly little word games just confirm that there's still a ton of room in your attic...

Ah well, get drunk, watch youtube, believe in aliens, make a donkey of yourself on Unexplained Mysteries Forums, do whatever floats your boat...

But until you're willing to grow up, and try to do just a smidgeon of real research and critical thinking, our future conversations will be very painfully short.

I honestly cannot see the point in pursuing a discussion with somebody who genuinely doesn't put any thought in to the garbage that he insists on posting, and makes it evident that an intelligent discourse is not as desirable to him as some type of childish arguing and tit for tat is.

You are wrong again! It is quite opposite! Many skeptics turns to believers! Beside, it is you who have to grow up....

Once again, you are wrong about Youtube about UFO reports that are also to find in other sites!

Edited August 7, 2009 by Ra_Sun-God

[Evangium]

That was post of the day for me, and perfectly sums up everything that is wrong with the subject! ......and why, if it's allowed to be continued to be led by belief, and agenda, will have not moved on one iota in another 50, 100 plus years....

Well that's my good deed for the day done. I'm off to bed

Ironic isn't, that 20 years ago the real thinkers in the field were cautioning the rest of them about this isn't? Says a lot about the village when you see how the children have grown up...

[NigelTM]

Ra, can I ask a favor of you please (two, actually)? When posting links to youtube, please post a line summarizing what the link is supposed to be about. Second, can you post fewer youtube links per post please? I deliberately don't click on them because there are so many at once, and I'm not about to go through 20 links to find out whatever it is you want me (us) to find out. I simply don't have the time.

Thank you.

Now, as to this:

ROSWELL DEBRIS CONFIRMED AS EXTRATERRESTRIAL: Lab Located, Scientists

Is there a way for us (scientists and/or skeptics, not necessarily the posters on this board) to examine said debris to confirm the claim?

[Braveheart]

I'll need to fish out the sources for this one, but has anyone heard of the lady who was abducted years ago, and claimed to have been shown a diagram after asking the E.T.s where they came from? She was able to reproduce this diagram which was a star constellation or solar system years before there was any documentation or investigation or even any technology good enough to map the area. Years later, technology had advanced and they checked the exact location the lady had written, claiming the aliens had told her, and low and behold they found the EXACT SAME layout of stars/planets that this lady had drawn. Her drawing matched EXACTLY with what astronomers mapped.

How did she manage to map the EXACT area in space - apparently shown to her by the aliens who abducted her from where they came from - years before anyone know about it or even before the technology was available to look it up before hand? She also has rips on her dress which she claimed to be where the aliens had grabbed and forced her into their ship.

But seriously, how did she manage that??

[Evangium]

I'll need to fish out the sources for this one, but has anyone heard of the lady who was abducted years ago, and claimed to have been shown a diagram after asking the E.T.s where they came from? She was able to reproduce this diagram which was a star constellation or solar system years before there was any documentation or investigation or even any technology good enough to map the area. Years later, technology had advanced and they checked the exact location the lady had written, claiming the aliens had told her, and low and behold they found the EXACT SAME layout of stars/planets that this lady had drawn. Her drawing matched EXACTLY with what astronomers mapped.

How did she manage to map the EXACT area in space - apparently shown to her by the aliens who abducted her from where they came from - years before anyone know about it or even before the technology was available to look it up before hand? She also has rips on her dress which she claimed to be where the aliens had grabbed and forced her into their ship.

But seriously, how did she manage that??

Please do. On the surface, it sounds almost like the Hill case, but I don't recall any mention of them being forced into the spaceship. I could be wrong on that.

Unfortunately, one of the problems with the Hill case, is how this 'star-map' came to be. Interestingingly enough, Betty Hill's star map doesn't correspond to Zeta Reticuli, it's more of a case of the person who made the model decided that Zeta Reticuli was a very rough match.

Jacques Vallee actually goes into a little bit more detail on this in "Messengers of Deception", where he makes a very relevant point about how many other stars in 3d space could also match Betty's drawing when all other vantage points are considered (something that wasn't factored into the creation of the model).

For some reason ufology, and I believe Stan Friedman in particular, decided to run with Zeta Retic as the home of the Grey, and the rest is now well known folklore.

That is of course assuming your case is the abduction of Betty and Barney Hill.

[Sweetpumper]

That is of course assuming your case is the abduction of Betty and Barney Hill.

I believe that's the case he's thinking of.