More Best Evidence for aliens

[skyeagle409]

I admire you LS and psyche, ten points plus heck a aload

[off topic]

where you dig up the time to participate in such extend? I wish I could have 73 hours per day...

[on topic]

Now, again, to Sky arrows silvery flies: you claimed you had designed (or participated in) some UAVs. Am I correct? So, maybe you have some tools for impact simulations. Can you run some numbers, lets say, on Roswell crash - how "wonderful" material with "mind-boggling" strength would tear in peaces, while bodies would be still intact. Can you do it?

We have precedences of disastrous crashes (psyche posted some of those already) and maybe this one was seen already, too

from 60000+ feet down to Earth...

What do you see Sky, huh?! We, freaking ants, just getting to the skies in our bare shoes and punk crests, while millions of years ahead of us get shredded into pieces... Yeah, so much for "fancy, very strong material".

That is not how the craft crashed on the Foster ranch, so in that regards, that photo has no bearing on the Roswell incident. The nature of the debris field discovered in July on the Foster ranch proves my point.

[skyeagle409]

Seibert claims the destruction was Legit, Schiff HELD THAT BACK from the general public.

No it wasn't legit at all. Permanent records are just that. permanent.

Now why would he do that? Yes, for personal ego, just like the problems between the base boys and the college boys during Project MOGUL.

The college boys knew full well that they were not to launch any Mogul balloon trains during cloudy days that might present a hazard to the fly boys at the base during IFR operations on cloudy days, which is why it is all there in black and white, that the flight was canceled due to clouds on June 4, 1947. That pertained to a Mogul balloon train, not a clustered service balloon flight which was not the balloon train the Air Force had said in its report.

[psyche101]

Once again, you have shown that you know lack of knowledge on Project Mogul. The clustered service balloon flight was in no way, a Mogul balloon train.

Not at all, what is being displayed here is your serious problems with regards to understanding the English Language. The report says service flight, I say service Flight, LS Says service flight, the train fantasy remains only in your head. This has been repeated too many times for you to not understand this. You either seriously need help with English, or you are deliberately trying to flame. Which is it?

Man up and spit it out. What is your intention here, or do you have a real disability?

Nope. Brazel didn't discover the debris field until July, not in June.

This changes nothing, you are relying on hearsay to make these conclusions. Hardly what could be considered research.

How amusing, when Brazel didn't discover the debris field until July.

And this changes nothing. If Brazel did find anything on his ranch at all, and if it was the missing service flight, it would be in a million pieces, just like the field descriptions offer.

Even the CI folks confirmed the recovery on the Foster ranch,and didn't mention anything about Roswell being a CI operation..

And why would a CI person do that? Just a little bored and wanted to liven things up with a court martial or similar?

What else would happen if you exposed a covert operation? That is sensitive information there, you do not just release sensitive information to the press. For instance, if an interstellar craft did crash on a property, the first thing you would do is make confirmation, not go bellowing that to the world, you would say something else to get the press of your back whilst you make determinations in peace.

Those who were there, have blamed ET. Those who were not there, were the same folks who threw in a weather balloon and cited the Air Force as their source, but look what happened in 1994 when the Air Force dropped the bomb that it wasn't a weather balloon after all.

It was still a balloon, what do you not get about that? What do you not understand about a covert operation? Why do you not understand that MOGUL was not public domain? What do you not understand about Balloons being used for both weather and service flights, and trains for that matter?

This only shows that you can only employ dramatisation for an ET case as opposed to a structured thought process or real evidence. Hearsay is common, and even more so when a home town is involved, Even heard the term Urban Legend? Roswell is one of many. Such tales only get more embellished as time rolls on.

Why don't you put some effort into explaining why Schiff released the 2nd draft of the report, and not the final, which answered questions he made up?

[skyeagle409]

1948, a whole year later

You good sir, are indeed the icing on any cake.

And the substance for that matter. Another great call.

Hate to throw some mud on that cake, but the CI boys had said, that there was a recovery of strange material on the Foster ranch and they continued to say so decades later.. Roger and out!!

. SGT. LEWIS (BILL) RICKETT

[Bill Rickett was with the Counter Intelligence Corps based in Roswell, part of Jesse Marcel's staff, and an assistant to CICman Sheridan Cavitt. He had an opportunity to examine some of the wreckage recovered from the Foster (Mac Brazel's) Ranch. He also said he escorted Dr Lincoln LaPaz, a meteor expert from the New Mexico Institute of Meteoritics, on a tour of the crash site and the surrounding area in September, 1947, in an attempt to reconstruct the speed and trajectory of the crash object.]

My link

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409

[psyche101]

Doesn't fly!

Congressman Schiff had indicated the Air Force was blocking his Roswell investigation and cited that fact in the January 14, 1994 edition of the Washington Post, and he cited that it was another government cover-up,and it is all there is [/b]black and white, and I have posted the reference to that newspaper article as well.

[/color][/size]

You just do nopt get it do you.

What the heck does Schiffs erroneous claim, that he could not make if he released the final report, have to do with this?

How did the USAF know 40 years ago that Schiff was going to request these documents that were destroyed, and it seems quite legitimately? That is when the said documents were supposedly destroyed? That is the whine you are referring to is it not?

[skyeagle409]

This changes nothing, you are relying on hearsay to make these conclusions. Hardly what could be considered research.

Why of course it changes nothing because Brazel discovered the debris field in July, not on June 4, which simply proves my point that the clustered service balloon contraption never landed on the Foster ranch and besides, highly experienced mililtary personnel would not have mistaken a downed balloon as a flying saucer anyway.

[skyeagle409]

You just do nopt get it do you.

What the heck does Schiffs erroneous claim, that he could not make if he released the final report, have to do with this?

Congressman Schiff was right on the money, as was written in that Washington Post article. Nothing difficult to understand.

How did the USAF know 40 years ago that Schiff was going to request these documents that were destroyed, and it seems quite legitimately? That is when the said documents were supposedly destroyed? That is the whine you are referring to is it not?

You missed the whole point. The Roswell cover-up was initiatied shortly after the news story that a flying saucer was captured. That weather balloon story began the cover-up, and to remove any problems, records had to be removed in order to hide details of what was occurring during the incident, and afteward. People might get suspicious if they knew a lot of flights were heading for W-P all of a sudden.

SGT. ROBERT SMITH

(Robert Smith was a member of the First Air Transport Unit, which operated Douglas C-54 Skymaster four-engine cargo planes out of the Roswell AAF.)

(F&B, interviewed 1991) "All I saw was a little piece of material. You could crumple it up, let it come out. You couldn't crease it. One of our people put it in his pocket. The piece of debris I saw was two to three inches square. It was jagged. When you crumpled it up, it then laid back out. And when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane. It crackled when it was let out. There were no creases. ...The sergeant who had the piece of material said [it was like] the material in the crates."

(Pflock, FUFOR,

affidavit 10/10/91) "All I saw was a little piece of material. The piece of debris I saw was two-to-three inches square. It was jagged. When you crumpled it up, it then laid back out; and when it did, it kind of crackled, making a sound like cellophane, and it crackled when it was let out. There were no creases.

________________________________________________________

BRIG.-GENERAL ARTHUR EXON

[Exon was stationed at Wright Field at the time of the crash. From 1964-69 he was the Commanding Officer of Wright-Patterson AFB, where crash material was taken in 1947. He said he never saw the actual crash material, but was told the result of testing by other personnel involved.]

(R&S2) "We heard the material was coming to Wright Field. [Testing was done in the various labs.] Everything from chemical analysis, stress tests, compression tests, flexing. It was brought into our material evaluation labs. I don't know how it arrived, but the boys who tested it said it was very unusual."

.

[RUCU] "...couldn't be easily ripped or changed ...you could change it. You could wad it up, you could change the shape, but it was still there and ... there were other parts of it that were very thin but awfully strong and couldn't be dented with heavy hammers and stuff like that... which at the time were causing some people some concern... again, say it was a shape of some kind, you could grab this end and bend it, but it would come right back. It was flexible to a degree."

My link

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409

[psyche101]

No it wasn't legit at all. Permanent records are just that. permanent.

Do not know much about legals do you. Have you ever worked in, or had much contact with an office environment. Even permanent records are usually deleted after 60 years.

Now please explain Seiberts letter to the GAO which includes:

That regulations in existence at the time the records were apparently destroyed clearly state that records "accumulated at or below wing level will be scheduled as one item and destroyed after two years.... It is clear from the forgoing that record management officials, if acting in accordance with agency regulations then in force, should have destroyed the records in question rather than transfer them to St. Louis."

Are you saying that the The Chief Archivist of the National Personnel Records Center is wrong are you? He says the record destruction is legit, and that is obviously why Schiff held back the final report, and released the second draft instead. Rather underhanded wouldn't you say? And you are trying to say do not trust the USAF, when it a polotician doing the covering up, and remember it was the USAF who saw fit to employ you according to yourself. I hope I never have an employee like that.

The college boys knew full well that they were not to launch any Mogul balloon trains during cloudy days that might present a hazard to the fly boys at the base during IFR operations on cloudy days, which is why it is all there in black and white, that the flight was canceled due to clouds on June 4, 1947. That pertained to a Mogul balloon train, not a clustered service balloon flight which was not the balloon train the Air Force had said in its report.

Then where am I getting the line I keep quoting to you that says THAT flight was a service flight? You know this one, or are you pretending you did not see it, or that it does not exist??

The NYU balloon flights were listed sequentially in their reports (i.e., A, B, or 1,5, 6, 7, 8, 10 .), yet gaps existed for Flights 2-4 and Flight 9. The interview with Professor Moore indicated that these gaps were the unlogged “service flights.”

[bmk1245]

That is not how the craft crashed on the Foster ranch, so in that regards, that photo has no bearing on the Roswell incident. The nature of the debris field discovered in July on the Foster ranch proves my point.

Of course its not, its just an example of how our "not that super-duper material" survived hard (very unfortunate) crash, while "super-duper material" shredded to pieces, still some goo/glued material inside...

[skyeagle409]

Do not know much about legals do you. Have you ever worked in, or had much contact with an office environment. Even permanent records are usually deleted after 60 years.

Whoever destroyed those records, did so illegally and deliberately. There are certain procedures to be followed when destroying classified materials.

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

The NYU balloon flights were listed sequentially in their reports (i.e., A, B, or 1,5, 6, 7, 8, 10 .), yet gaps existed for Flights 2-4 and Flight 9. The interview with Professor Moore indicated that these gaps were the unlogged "service flights."

Doesn't make any difference at, and it seems you missed some important points before, so here they are again.

* No wreckage on the Foster ranch in June

* The clustered service balloon flight was not a Mogul balloon train the Air Force had said in its 1994 Roswell report, which was a false to begin with anyway.

* The first successful Mogul balloon flight didn't occur until June 5, and was not recovered on the Foster ranch.

* Brazel didn't discover any wreckage until July.

* The counter-intelligence folks had indicated that the material recovered on the Foster ranch, exhibited strange properties.

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409

[lost_shaman]

And why would a CI person do that? Just a little bored and wanted to liven things up with a court martial or similar?

Of course they wouldn't. Heck the Air Force even had to declassify the failed MOGUL project, by their argument, so that people would feel comfortable discussing it!

Sky believes a CI operation directed towards the American Press and Public would have been declassified automatically decades ago. Showing Sky has basically no clue.

[lost_shaman]

People might get suspicious if they knew a lot of flights were heading for W-P all of a sudden.

NO people would not! This is just another of your imaginations that means nothing to anyone but yourself. This was reported in the Press July 8th! No member of the Press ever reported any strange Air Activity in New Mexico or at Wright Field. End of story.

[lost_shaman]

Whoever destroyed those records, did so illegally and deliberately. There are certain procedures to be followed when destroying classified materials.

Even IF that's true my hypothesis explains this. It doesn't point to an "Alien Crash". For that matter there could be a number of reasons people destroy records nefariously.

[psyche101]

Why of course it changes nothing because Brazel discovered the debris field in July, not on June 4, which simply proves my point that the clustered service balloon contraption never landed on the Foster ranch and besides, highly experienced mililtary personnel would not have mistaken a downed balloon as a flying saucer anyway.

With the balloon being described as torn to shreds that works in OK, you are now using Randles argument, but that is well explained with Lost Shamans CI hypothesis. If they were told to keep to a cover story to get the press of their backs, sure they would, not like anyone is getting hurt is it? You do not consider that ET may be the cover story you think is real.

[psyche101]

Congressman Schiff was right on the money, as was written in that Washington Post article. Nothing difficult to understand.

It would appear that Schiff is a fraud. I ask yet again, although I take it you cannot answer the question I keep posing to you. Not the first time is it? Funny how you go on about your list of 20 fallacies, imagine the list of questions posed to you that you have never answered.

Please explain why Schiff only released the second draft, and not the final conclusion, which trashes his claims.

Please explain why Seibert wrote that letter to the GAO if records were not supposed to have been destroyed.

The above two questions, and your inability to answer them tells us that Schiff was anything but on the money.

You missed the whole point. The Roswell cover-up was initiatied shortly after the news story that a flying saucer was captured. That weather balloon story began the cover-up, and to remove any problems, records had to be removed in order to hide details of what was occurring during the incident, and afteward. People might get suspicious if they knew a lot of flights were heading for W-P all of a sudden.

And that is exactly the way one would remove reference to a CI operation the public is never to know about. Look at how the zealots react to information they should not be privy to, imagine the amount of hurt pride if it was revealed that a;ll these so called researchers - who cannot hold a candle to Lost Shaman - were proven to have been barking up the wrong tree since 1978 when Friedman made the case popular as an ET story.

And Schiff is saying this was deliberate to impede him? Come on. A deliberate act to impede an investigation 40 years later?

[psyche101]

Whoever destroyed those records, did so illegally and deliberately. There are certain procedures to be followed when destroying classified materials.

Not if you read the final draft of the report.

The GAO stated:

"A draft of this report was provided to DoD for comment....The Chief Archivist, National Personnel Records Center offered several comments clarifying matters dealing with records management. These comments have been incorporated into the final report where appropriate."

And the Chief Archivists viewpoint?

That regulations in existence at the time the records were apparently destroyed clearly state that records "accumulated at or below wing level will be scheduled as one item and destroyed after two years.... It is clear from the forgoing that record management officials, if acting in accordance with agency regulations then in force, should have destroyed the records in question rather than transfer them to St. Louis."

(Seibert's emphasis in letter to the GAO)

Yet not in the circulated version which Schiff released, 2nd draft - is it?

Unless you can show that the Chief Archivist is incorrect here, the records were properly destroyed and Schiff is wrong. So please present proof against the Chief Archivists comments.

Edited March 11, 2011 by psyche101

[skyeagle409]

With the balloon being described as torn to shreds that works in OK, you are now using Randles argument, but that is well explained with Lost Shamans CI hypothesis. If they were told to keep to a cover story to get the press of their backs, sure they would, not like anyone is getting hurt is it? You do not consider that ET may be the cover story you think is real.

You are missing the point again, There were no balloons of any kind involved in the Roswell incident, and once again, no wreckage on the Foster ranch in June, and as Dubose stated in an interview, and I might add that he also posed with the Roswell debris, that the rawin device he posed with in Rameydestroyed deliberately by them [/size]before it was displayed in Ramey's office.

So, you see, there were no balloons involved.

In regards to those records that were destroyed illegally, show the operational records on events covering Major Edwin Easley and his troops during the clean-up on the Foster ranch and at crash site number 2. and we know that he, and military personel were involved, and you can be sure they were not cleaning up the Foster ranch from the goodness of their little hearts or for the sake of some public relations affair either.

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

It would appear that Schiff is a fraud. I ask yet again, although I take it you cannot answer the question I keep posing to you. Not the first time is it? Funny how you go on about your list of 20 fallacies, imagine the list of questions posed to you that you have never answered.

How amusing when it was well known that the Air Force was misleading Congressman Steven Schiff, so he called in reinforments, the GAO, which also dismissed the Air Force's Mogul balloon explanation.

Please explain why Schiff only released the second draft, and not the final conclusion, which trashes his claims.

It doesn't trash his claims by any means. He was sent on a 'wild goose chase' by the Air Force and he became very upset, but it is of no surprise to me, because I know that is how the Air Force has been operating on other issues where it seeks to hide the real story behind covver stories and disinformation and deception and I know that from first hand experience as well.

Our military is great with its deception techniques, after all, look how we used CNN to get Saddam Hussein to relocate his troops during fhe first Gulf War with our deception reports. Our military has been using that same technique on the public for years in regards to the Roswell incident and even during our UFO sightings over Vietnam and other bases.

Additionally, look how effectly the Air Force deception routine worked on a few folks by convincing them for 47 years that a weather balloon was involved in the Roswell incident and then, trashing that false weather balloon cover story and exchanging it for a Mogul balloon train fliglht that never was, and test dummys and accident victims of the 1950s as responsible for an incident that occurred in 1947.

If you don't learn how to read between the lines, you will become victims of our military's deception practices, simiply said!

Please explain why Seibert wrote that letter to the GAO if records were not supposed to have been destroyed.

Please post his letter for all to read.

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Even IF that's true my hypothesis explains this. It doesn't point to an "Alien Crash". For that matter there could be a number of reasons people destroy records nefariously.

The timing during the time those records were destroyed illegally, shows that someone wanted to hide events at Roswell AAF during the time of the Roswell incident.

[psyche101]

Doesn't make any difference at, and it seems you missed some important points before, so here they are again.

Makes all the difference in the world, and I did not miss these, you just seem to scared to take on my answers. That in itself says enough, and why you are repeating yourself instead of answering questions.

* No wreckage on the Foster ranch in June

You have no idea what was on the Foster Ranch in Jume. Ansd cosidering the claims of high winds, we do not know how far something might have been blown along the ground in a month before it was snagged and ripped up. As such, the cluster never even had to make the ranch. Just near it.

So where is Crareys cluster?

* The clustered service balloon flight was not a Mogul balloon train the Air Force had said in its 1994 Roswell report, which was a false to begin with anyway.

Well, no **** sherlock. Nobody said otherwise. Get a grip man. How often have you said this and I have said, yes, just like the 1994 report says - service flight. What is wrong with you?

You cannot say a report is false at least until you have read it, which you have not done as you keep making horrendous mistakes about it.

* The first successful Mogul balloon flight didn't occur until June 5, and was not recovered on the Foster ranch.

Check that table I gave you.

* Brazel didn't discover any wreckage until July.

You have no idea what Brazel was doing the day before this mess started. If you say you do, you are making that up.

* The counter-intelligence folks had indicated that the material recovered on the Foster ranch, exhibited strange properties.

[/b]

Of course they would if that was the cover story. Not a shred of proof for this so called material though is there? Can you show me a piece? No, you cannot, nobody can. It is hearsay. And hearsay to you is as good as fact. You just do not realise that hearsay is only good enough for zealots.

Edited March 11, 2011 by psyche101

[lost_shaman]

I just don't see Rep. Schiff in such a bad light as you seem to psyche.

His effort, even if misguided or not, has led to more information becoming public. This in turn spurred on more and more investigation. From an American POV what Rep. Schiff was doing wasn't a bad thing 'we' want the damn truth! I wish more Reps. and Senators in Congress would ask the tough questions the 'people' want answers to!

That's just my opinion at any rate.

[lost_shaman]

The timing during the time those records were destroyed illegally, shows that someone wanted to hide events at Roswell AAF during the time of the Roswell incident.

What 'timing'?

You can't go around and say something 'shows' anything unless you reference what you are talking about. Do you have evidence of the 'timing'? If so then 'show' it to us before you tell us what it allegedly 'shows'.

Edited March 11, 2011 by lost_shaman

[skyeagle409]

With the balloon being described as torn to shreds that works in OK, you are now using Randles argument, but that is well explained with Lost Shamans CI hypothesis. If they were told to keep to a cover story to get the press of their backs, sure they would, not like anyone is getting hurt is it? You do not consider that ET may be the cover story you think is real.

Let's take a look at what Randle has said.

"There Was No Flight No. 4"

As I've said before, even the counter-intelligence folks were describing wreckage on the Foster ranch, and with strange properites as well.

And, as I have mentioned before as well, we now have two cover stories still in effect that shows that the Roswell incident was not the result of any CI opeation, as the counter-intelliegence folks would have revealed such an operation decades ago, but instead, they have continued to describe the Roswell incident as an incident involving material exhibiting strange properties unknown to mankind, and that is from the counter-intelligence folks decades later who were directly involved in the Roswell incident.

The fact that the Air Force is keeping the two remaining Roswell cover stories well-oiled to this very day, also dismisses a CI operation in 1947 because once again, there is no need to throw in two additional cover stories for such an operation.

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Let's take a look at what Randle has said.[/

"There Was No Flight No. 4"

　

BRIG.-GENERAL ARTHUR EXON

"[some of it] could be easily ripped or changed... There were other parts of it that were very thin but awfully strong and couldn't be dented with heavy hammers...It was flexible to a degree... Some of it was flimsy and was tougher than hell, and the other was almost like foil but strong. It had them pretty puzzled. ...They knew they had something new in their hands. The metal and material was unknown to anyone I talked to. Whatever they found, I never heard what the results were. A couple of guys thought it might be Russian, but the overall consensus was that the pieces were from space. ...Roswell was the recovery of a craft from space."

JUNE CRAIN

(Crain was employed at Wright Field/Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio, from 1943 through 1952. Crain recalled that she saw and handled the following metallic debris in either 1951 or 1952 at Wright Field. Although it is not clear that the this debris is directly related to the 1947 Roswell event or some other event, the testimony is that the metal came from a spacecraft in New Mexico. The testimony is therefore included because of Crain's position and the similarity of the description to that of others. Links to the full interview and documentation of her employment can be found at http://www.majesticd...m/witnesses.php)

BRIG. GENERAL STEVEN LOVEKIN

(A Disclosure Project witness, Lovekin has recently testified to being intensively briefed on the UFO phenomenon when he worked in the Eisenhower and Kennedy White Houses in the Army Signaling Agency. The following testimony was based on briefings he received at the Pentagon around 1959.)

(Source) "This piece of an extraterrestrial craft was a grayish foil-like material... it had been taken from one of the ET craft that had crashed in New Mexico...

http://www.roswellpr...tml#anchor_3608

That would explain why even a U.S. Senator was denied access to a certain location on Wright-Patterson AFB.

　

Letter From Barry Goldwater

About UFO And

Wright Patterson

http://www.qtm.net/~...dan/cufon3.html

6-25-00

BARRY GOLDWATER

Arizona

Committees:

Aeronautical & Space Sci. Armed Services

Preparedness Inv Subcommit

UNITED STATES SENATE

Tactical Air Power Subcomm

Washington D.C. 20510

N. S. Naval Petroleum Reserves Subcommittee March 28, 1975 Mr.Shlomo Arnon U.C.L.A. Experimental College 308 Westwood Plaza Los Angeles, California 90024 Dear Mr.Arnon: The subject of UFOs is one that has interested me for some time. About ten or twelve years ago I made an effort to find out what was in the building at Wright Patterson Air Force Base where the information is stored that has been collected by the Air Force, and I was understandably denied this request.

It is still classified above Top Secret. I have, however, heard that there is a plan under way to release some, if not all, of this material in the near future. I'm just as anxious to see this material as you are, and I hope we will not have to wait too much longer.

Sincerely. Barry Goldwater

And, commnents made by Colonel Raymond Madson, Project officer for the Air Force's test dummy operations.

　

　

PARTICIPANT IN DUMMY DROPS SCOFFS AT AF REPORT

Dummies Weren't Classified, Says Retired Colonel

[CNI News thanks Robert Collins for sending us this story from the Associated Press, July 1997.]

A retired Air Force officer says he worked with high tech crash test dummies in the 1950s, and that there's no way they'd be confused with aliens described in rumors arising from the Roswell Incident.

Lt. Col. (Ret.) Raymond A. Madson said he isn't buying the latest Air Force explanation of what occurred in Roswell in July 1947. The Air Force believes crash test dummies used in the 1950s were mistaken for the rumored 1947 aliens and UFO buffs just got their dates mixed up.

Madson, 66, who now lives near Grants [New Mexico], said he was project officer for Project High Dive at Holloman Air Force Base for four years starting in the 1950s.

Madson said he sent photographs of Project High Dive dummies to the Pentagon for inclusion in the Air Force document, "The Roswell Report: Case Closed."

But he said the dummies do not match the descriptions of the very small, almost childlike beings purported to have been seen in 1947 near Roswell.

"They were testing these things (dummies) to try to protect grown men. They would never have used (dummies of) children for such experiments," he said.

Madson also served at Wright Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio, before coming to Holloman. His wife worked at Wright Patterson as a secretary in the base medical laboratory, as well, he said.

Both of them heard serious talk about little green men who had been brought onto the base and studied secretly, he said. The subject of aliens never came up at Holloman, however.

"I think it was a highly kept secret at that time," he said. In contrast, there was nothing secret about his dummies, he said.

"The dummies were not covered up or hidden (when transported), and there was no security in the dummy drop phase of the experiments," he said.

And because the windblown dummies might end up falling just about anywhere, the Air Force even offered $25 rewards to local residents around Alamogordo to return the dummies to the base, he said. They were all stamped with labels identifying them as Air Force property, Madson said.

And:

　

Colonel Calls Air Force Roswell Report a Lie

When the Air Force in 1997 released Roswell Report: Case Closed, its debunking of the famed crash incident of 1947, it relied heavily on information provided by Lt. Col. Raymond Madson, project officer in charge of the military's "crash test dummy" program known as "Project High Dive." Madson's program was cited as the definitive explanation for widely reported claims of small alien bodies said to be recovered after the crash. The representation was that witnesses had confused the dummies with creatures from another world. But now, Madson has come forward publicly to say that the Air Force study is "itself a lie." Moreover, he believes aliens really did crash to Earth in the incident, and that the author of the Air Force report had no interest in uncovering what really happened, but "was on a mission."

In an interview with on-line reporter Anthony Braglia (http://ufocon.blogspot.com/2009/04/af-roswell-studycontributor-admits-it.html), Madson argued that the dummies used in his project could never be mistaken for aliens. Nevertheless, Madson says that Captain James McAndrew, the report's author, ignored the fact that the six-foot dummies were too large and were not used until years after the Roswell event. It is clear to Madson, now 79, that the report was intended the provide a public cover story and nothing else.

Earlier in his career Madson worked at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. At the time he had heard rumors of highy secure areas on the base where secret medical research was carried out. When the Roswell event unfolded, he found the notion that alien bodies had been transferred from Roswell to Wright-Patterson to be entirely plausible. Madson's wife, who, at the time, worked at the base's medical laboratory, agrees.

　

And of course, Congressman Steven Schiff was also mislead by the Air Force on his Roswell investigation,

　

　My link

　

Edited March 11, 2011 by skyeagle409