Are debunkers wasting their lives?

[vukxfiles]

I posted a similar topic on the Spirituality vs Skepticism board, and made a mistake for thinking that all skeptics are debunkers. My basic thought here is how debunkers are skeptics, they do not believe in paranormal phenomena. But why do they waste their time trying to disprove these things? In my understanding, if a person doesn't believe in something, why waste his time studying it and trying to disprove it? Why not just ignore the subject and go on with your life?

Edited July 8, 2009 by vukxfiles

[Mattshark]

For debate, for education, for knowledge, for understanding.

[Queen in the North]

For debate, for education, for knowledge, for understanding.

*applauds* Well said!

[Korbus]

Similarly, believers could be told roughly the same thing. Believers are still going to believe and debunkers are still going to debunk.

[aquatus1]

Not all debunkers are skeptics. Not all skeptics disbelieve in the paranormal.

[John from Lowell]

I posted a similar topic on the Spirituality vs Skepticism board, and made a mistake for thinking that all skeptics are debunkers. My basic thought here is how debunkers are skeptics, they do not believe in paranormal phenomena. But why do they waste their time trying to disprove these things? In my understanding, if a person doesn't believe in something, why waste his time studying it and trying to disprove it? Why not just ignore the subject and go on with your life?

What is true for them must also be true for others as well. There is no room for another's views on some subjects.

I think it is human nature to be insecure about the unknown and the unknowable. The logical mind does need reasurance and this is a good way to accomplish that task.

John

Edited July 8, 2009 by John A Spera

[ambelamba]

I think doing a serious research on paranormal is really frustrating to legitimate scientist types. It doesn't fit into any kind of scientific principle we know. And there's no way to measure them and verify it. Chances are, they won't get any verifiable results in any time frame. And we don't know how that will improve our lives. And of course, most people out there will be scornful about the research on paranormal.

Personally, paranormal is certainly not in the priority when it comes to scientific inquiry.

[vukxfiles]

So you said earlier today.

I just watched a show on RODs, and in the end they proved they were insects or some debree moving at high speed. So, what now? They think if it's debunked that no one would pay attention to it anymore. I think of it as a really interesting phenomenon, whether they are insects or alien probes or atmopheric beasts. I really don't care if it's not something paranormal, it still is fascinating.

Also, many skeptics (I'm not imlpying professional skeptics) say that RODs don't exist, but how can this be possible when the phenomenon is clearly captured on video or photo. It's the same as saying that UFOs don't exist.

[vukxfiles]

I think doing a serious research on paranormal is really frustrating to legitimate scientist types. It doesn't fit into any kind of scientific principle we know. And there's no way to measure them and verify it. Chances are, they won't get any verifiable results in any time frame. And we don't know how that will improve our lives. And of course, most people out there will be scornful about the research on paranormal.

Personally, paranormal is certainly not in the priority when it comes to scientific inquiry.

So why waste time making "debunking" the paranormal a priority, why not just leave it alone, and continue with classic science.

[ambelamba]

So why waste time making "debunking" the paranormal a priority, why not just leave it alone, and continue with classic science.

Sure, I leave it alone. Actually I never bothered to disprove it. I don't bother with paranormal because it gives me unnecessary stress and headache.

[+HerNibs]

Part of my post from your other thread.

Not sure if you realize this or not but YOU ARE A SKEPTIC of Atlantis, Atmospheric beasts, most Ghosts, Demonic Possession. Welcome, we have cookies.

If you carefully read many of the crypto threads you will see that very often a skeptic will post a logical explanation or post a simple observation that doesn't support the "OMG 11!!!1 DO U C WHAT I SEE?!?1"

Those of us who have been involved in this for a while (not just this board but interested in the area) see a pattern form.

1. Film/see amazing picture or statement on the internet regarding a cryptid/ghost/psychic/religion.

2. Post picture or link in forum with "what do you guys think?"

3. Skeptic posts "looks like a bear with mange", "dust", "reflection", etc. along with the "OMG!!11" posts or with a simple and plausible explanation. (USING SCIENCE TO COME TO THE CONCLUSION)

4. Believers freak (not all) and for some reason take it personally that not everyone is convinced by the same information. It's like when the example is critically examined and explained the believer behaves like some one just told them that they have a small penis, they are ugly and their girlfriend is cheating on them.

I also don't understand your gripe with science. Without science you would still be dying at a very early age or being sacrificed to the moon for the harvest.

Science is the method used not an all powerful thing out there judging what is right and wrong.

Science is what told the world that a coelacanth was found otherwise we would have "Hubert, the Really Cool Fish".

I want people to find solutions to todays issues rather than just looking forlorn and saying "Gee, if Atlantis hadn't sunk itself with the giant magic crystal, things would be soooo much better." I would rather people use science to follow the evidence to explore more of the amazing history of humanity. I don't want my money and time wasted on an argument based on maybe, could have meant, really might say, etc. that has produce NO evidence.

I certainly don't want the pilot of the next plane I am in to believe in atmospheric beasts. I want him to utilize science so that if he sees a strange looking cloud or there is a smear on the outside of the window he doesn't think that we are being attacked by giant rods so he must ditch us into the ocean to save us all.

Ghosts, gods, demons, etc all fall into my same thought process.

I want the world to use critical thinking. To not just believe what they read, are told or see. Poke at it, prod at it, use skeptisism to find out what it is.

Otherwise we will be flung back into the dark ages where anyone who questions the current superstition is burned at the stake.

Skeptics using science gave us what you have today. "Beliefs" with no questions and debunking would have kept us ignorant and in the dark.

Nibs

[vukxfiles]

Dude, I already read that on my previous topic. It doesn't explain to my why intelligent people tend to debunk instead of ignore. What do they care if ordinary people believed in this stuff. No matter what they do, the paranormal will exist forever. It's just peoples' fascination and fear of the unknown, an instinct that will never be erased from our DNA.

[+HerNibs]

Dude, I already read that on my previous topic. It doesn't explain to my why intelligent people tend to debunk instead of ignore. What do they care if ordinary people believed in this stuff. No matter what they do, the paranormal will exist forever. It's just peoples' fascination and fear of the unknown, an instinct that will never be erased from our DNA.

Otherwise intelligent people spend millions of dollars on "paranormal" things. They don't seek medical attention for something that could be healed or helped but they will go to a psychic healer, exorcist, etc.

Regarding cryptids - millions of dollars and man hours are spent researching a mythical animal that has no solid evidence to support it. The majority of the "experts" or "researchers" have no solid background in conducting biological and scientific research. They expell false and unscientific BS that sound a little bit convincing but can't stand up to the lightest skeptical investigation.

It's a waste of money that most people can't afford. Waste of time that could be put to better use.

It perpetuates a false sceintific method and poor reasoning.

If that is allowed to continue unchecked, like I said in the previous post, we will end up as superstitious cave dwellers once again.

Nibs

[Stormcrow]

That little part of my soul that died on the previous topic has yet to be revived with the posting of this one. In fact, I think another little part just died from the sheer inability to understand the point of this topic.

All you're trying to do is say that skepticism is stupid, that you think it's a waste of time, and are unwilling to discuss. You just want to push your thoughts on others without so much as trying to understand what others are saying.

A pointless topic, imo.

[antediluvianfates]

Jason KB said it all. What sets apart those who are believers and those who are skeptics? Are believers wasting their lives as well? It should be part of our nature to question the unknown....why is it portrayed as so wrong?

[SkepticalScarecrow]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with skepticism, nor is it a 'waste of time' (Though to echo someone else, not all skeptics are debunkers) Magical thinking can lead to very sad ends. For example-People who are killed during an excorsism, when the only thing wrong with them was medical and not supernatural. Or parents who think taking their child to a psychic will cure them, only to have the child die of a very treatable illness/disorder.

People are free to believe, just as people are free to not believe without proof. Neither is a waste of time. This forum is a place for both believers and skeptics to debate, it'd be rather boring if everyone agreed with eachother you know.

[village_idiot]

I posted a similar topic on the Spirituality vs Skepticism board, and made a mistake for thinking that all skeptics are debunkers. My basic thought here is how debunkers are skeptics, they do not believe in paranormal phenomena. But why do they waste their time trying to disprove these things? In my understanding, if a person doesn't believe in something, why waste his time studying it and trying to disprove it? Why not just ignore the subject and go on with your life?

In my opinion, I've noticed alot of debunkers moving into the 'no scientific proof' response to almost every subject if they cannot administer their own proof. It's what I'd like to call the 'mule syndrom'; you know you're going to lose the argument so you find an easy scapegoat. So are they wasting their time? For the most part, yes.

As for skepticism...there is nothing wrong with being sceptical of things. I mean, let's face it, you don't want to be the gullible moron who buys into everything right?

[Mattshark]

In my opinion, I've noticed alot of debunkers moving into the 'no scientific proof' response to almost every subject if they cannot administer their own proof. It's what I'd like to call the 'mule syndrom'; you know you're going to lose the argument so you find an easy scapegoat. So are they wasting their time? For the most part, yes.

As for skepticism...there is nothing wrong with being sceptical of things. I mean, let's face it, you don't want to be the gullible moron who buys into everything right?

The problem is that you don't have to provide evidence against something is there is no evidence for it. You can for example prove there is no invisible tap dancing cat on nose can you? It is the burden of proof and that is ALWAYS on those who make the claim, it is a logical fallacy to ask someone to prove something doesn't exist or doesn't happen. If you can back a claim up with worthwhile evidence the claim has absolutely no value what so and can be dismissed as such.

[Stormcrow]

You can for example prove there is no invisible tap dancing cat on nose can you?

But there is a tap dancing cat on my nose!

[Lolipopkid]

Dude, I already read that on my previous topic. It doesn't explain to my why intelligent people tend to debunk instead of ignore. What do they care if ordinary people believed in this stuff. No matter what they do, the paranormal will exist forever. It's just peoples' fascination and fear of the unknown, an instinct that will never be erased from our DNA.

Some people need to find real explanations to things that seem unexplainable. Humans strive to learn we always have and this is why we continue to evolve as we always have. We once thought that stars were Gods and such, with our constant inquiry we discovered what they truly are. This is how we learn and honestly skeptics and their mind frame of connecting the dots is how we discover new things on a day to day basis.

[vukxfiles]

I realise that investigation of the paranormal is a waste of money, but whose forcing scientists to waste their money???

That's why I'm saying it's better for them to leave it alone, and not waste their time on it. Why waste time and money trying to disprove something that doesn't even have enough evidence to exist? Why not spend that time and money on the advancement of technology? It's not like us believers are making the world a bad place. If people want to pay psychic healers, that's their problem. They're not changing the world. It's the scientists who change the world, so why waste time debunking when they can do better and more useful things?

[vukxfiles]

I realise that investigation of the paranormal is a waste of money, but whose forcing scientists to waste their money???

That's why I'm saying it's better for them to leave it alone, and not waste their time on it. Why waste time and money trying to disprove something that doesn't even have enough evidence to exist? Why not spend that time and money on the advancement of technology? It's not like us believers are making the world a bad place. If people want to pay psychic healers, that's their problem. They're not changing the world. It's the scientists who change the world, so why waste time debunking when they can do better and more useful things?

[aquatus1]

I realise that investigation of the paranormal is a waste of money, but whose forcing scientists to waste their money???

That's why I'm saying it's better for them to leave it alone, and not waste their time on it. Why waste time and money trying to disprove something that doesn't even have enough evidence to exist? Why not spend that time and money on the advancement of technology? It's not like us believers are making the world a bad place. If people want to pay psychic healers, that's their problem. They're not changing the world. It's the scientists who change the world, so why waste time debunking when they can do better and more useful things?

The problem here is your perception of how scientists actually go about "changing the world".

The entire thrust of scientific discovery, the very basis of research methodology is "debunking".

A scientist, any scientist, is going to do everything within his power to debunk his own theories, to disprove his own explanation of any given phenomena, paranormal or otherwise. That is how science works. Only the theories that can withstand "debunking" survive in the scientific communities.

Scientists who work on the paranormal work on it because they believe there is something there to work on. They want to discover the rules and forces that govern the paranormal. They discover these the same way scientists have discovered other things. They make theories and try and debunk them. Along the way, psychic healers and the like get debunked. Scientists aren't out specifically to get them; these frauds are simply in the way.

[Mattshark]

The problem here is your perception of how scientists actually go about "changing the world".

The entire thrust of scientific discovery, the very basis of research methodology is "debunking".

A scientist, any scientist, is going to do everything within his power to debunk his own theories, to disprove his own explanation of any given phenomena, paranormal or otherwise. That is how science works. Only the theories that can withstand "debunking" survive in the scientific communities.

Scientists who work on the paranormal work on it because they believe there is something there to work on. They want to discover the rules and forces that govern the paranormal. They discover these the same way scientists have discovered other things. They make theories and try and debunk them. Along the way, psychic healers and the like get debunked. Scientists aren't out specifically to get them; these frauds are simply in the way.

You sure you're not a closet scientist aquatus?

[vukxfiles]

But skeptics also used to say that there are no rocks in the sky, and slowed down the discovery of meteors and comets.