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AROCES

Obama Healt Plan to cover 12 million Illegals

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AROCES

By: David A. Patten Article Font Size linked-image linked-image

On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/health_ca.../19/237484.html

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yeoman7894
By: David A. Patten Article Font Size linked-image linked-image

On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/health_ca.../19/237484.html

I fail to see the relevance here...if 12 million illegal immigrants have already crossed the border into the United States, then it seems as if there was already an incentive to be here. I would be more concerned by the impending failure of the Mexican government due to the corrupting and criminal activities of drug cartels within its borders. But that isn't good source material for a discussion of American politics, is it? Since diplomacy is a bad option when faced with the opportunity to launch a military assault against a faceless organization of civilian criminals who are capable of eluding capture and capable of anonymous attacks, I guess we will go to war with Mexico if that happens, huh?

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jordiver

Most of the european countries have this system working from long ago, its just a way to show we are a developed country and that the system can and must care for everyone first, then ask for the money. Its just another step to make any country better, and ensuring everyone has at least a minimum of health care provided by the goverment. If you still have the money to take a private health care, youre entitled to use it. There is no bad side to this although you wanna find it.

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Wickian
Most of the european countries have this system working from long ago, its just a way to show we are a developed country and that the system can and must care for everyone first, then ask for the money. Its just another step to make any country better, and ensuring everyone has at least a minimum of health care provided by the goverment. If you still have the money to take a private health care, youre entitled to use it. There is no bad side to this although you wanna find it.

It's the fact that a lot of people will be, forcibly, paying for the healthcare of a non-citizen. Just the prospect of having to pay money for everyone else upsets me.

I'm big on "you leave me alone I leave you alone" in both positive and negative aspects. I shouldn't have to pay for someone else' medical bills just like they shouldn't have to pay for mine. The government has no business forcing people into this. If they were to offer an optional healthcare plan that you could choose to not be a part of, then I would support that.

I guess people's stances on this issue comes down to whether you consider doctors to be a "right" or a "privilege." I consider them a privilege.

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__Kratos__
Most of the european countries have this system working from long ago, its just a way to show we are a developed country and that the system can and must care for everyone first, then ask for the money. Its just another step to make any country better, and ensuring everyone has at least a minimum of health care provided by the goverment. If you still have the money to take a private health care, youre entitled to use it. There is no bad side to this although you wanna find it.

And they're already bleeding us dry through other public services and hospitals that are by law can't refuse them through er's are shutting down along the border because of costs. We can't help the world, and that's a sad fact. We should look out for our own first and not be looking to the needs of leeches. If you just keep on helping and not care about the money, the money is going to disappear and then what? We're a craphole country but at least we had a good decade of service?

Europe has it's own problems with affording these costs, it's bleeding them dry just as much.

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zitro1987
Most of the european countries have this system working from long ago, its just a way to show we are a developed country and that the system can and must care for everyone first, then ask for the money. Its just another step to make any country better, and ensuring everyone has at least a minimum of health care provided by the goverment. If you still have the money to take a private health care, youre entitled to use it. There is no bad side to this although you wanna find it.

We simply can't afford it and many people here wouldn't be happy to pay for illegal immigrants

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IronGhost

But the Obama plan does not offer health insurance to illegals -- and Obama himself does not favor this:

Obama says his health plan won't include undocumented immigrants

Phoenix Business Journal - by Mike Sunnucks

Some liberal and left-wing groups are pushing for possible universal health insurance plans to cover the more than 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S..

But Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's campaign Friday said his universal health plans do not extend to undocumented immigrants.

The Progressive Democrats of America and some Democratic congressional members want to see universal insurance programs, if enacted, to include illegal immigrants.

They want that concept included in the Democratic Party platform for the 2008 elections, and also favor federal legislation for that goal. Obama spokeswoman Sharon Gilson said Friday Obama's health plans would not extend to undocumented migrants in the U.S..

There are an estimated 47 million persons on the U.S. without health insurance. Illegal immigrants and their U.S.-born children make up 8.3 million of that uninsured number, according to the Center for Immigration Studies.

Read more here...

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/07/21/d...

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AROCES
But the Obama plan does not offer health insurance to illegals -- and Obama himself does not favor this:

Obama says his health plan won't include undocumented immigrants

Phoenix Business Journal - by Mike Sunnucks

Some liberal and left-wing groups are pushing for possible universal health insurance plans to cover the more than 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S..

But Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's campaign Friday said his universal health plans do not extend to undocumented immigrants.

The Progressive Democrats of America and some Democratic congressional members want to see universal insurance programs, if enacted, to include illegal immigrants. They want that concept included in the Democratic Party platform for the 2008 elections, and also favor federal legislation for that goal. Obama spokeswoman Sharon Gilson said Friday Obama's health plans would not extend to undocumented migrants in the U.S..

There are an estimated 47 million persons on the U.S. without health insurance. Illegal immigrants and their U.S.-born children make up 8.3 million of that uninsured number, according to the Center for Immigration Studies.

Read more here...

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/07/21/d...

Saying it is far diffrent from actually doing something to insure it.

Here is the Democrats dilemma on it and what they are doing, they fear if they restrict illegals they will hear it from some minority groups but at the same time they know Americans will not like it as well. So Obama will say it will not include illegals but the bill has no enforcement on it. Problem solved politically but the solution will create a bigger problem that tax payers has to shoulder at the end.

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AROCES
I fail to see the relevance here...if 12 million illegal immigrants have already crossed the border into the United States, then it seems as if there was already an incentive to be here. I would be more concerned by the impending failure of the Mexican government due to the corrupting and criminal activities of drug cartels within its borders. But that isn't good source material for a discussion of American politics, is it? Since diplomacy is a bad option when faced with the opportunity to launch a military assault against a faceless organization of civilian criminals who are capable of eluding capture and capable of anonymous attacks, I guess we will go to war with Mexico if that happens, huh?

So it does not bother you to shoulder the failure of your neighbor?

I tell you what, why don't you pay double whatever taxes you are paying now and show your true heart and compasion not thru the evil rich.

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AROCES
Most of the european countries have this system working from long ago, its just a way to show we are a developed country and that the system can and must care for everyone first, then ask for the money. Its just another step to make any country better, and ensuring everyone has at least a minimum of health care provided by the goverment. If you still have the money to take a private health care, youre entitled to use it. There is no bad side to this although you wanna find it.

No bad side for you are not paying for it. :tu:

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IronGhost
Saying it is far diffrent from actually doing something to insure it.

Here is the Democrats dilemma on it and what they are doing, they fear if they restrict illegals they will hear it from some minority groups but at the same time they know Americans will not like it as well. So Obama will say it will not include illegals but the bill has no enforcement on it. Problem solved politically but the solution will create a bigger problem that tax payers has to shoulder at the end.

Obama is a shrewd and intelligent politician, to be sure.

Of course, we must remember who is responsible for the illegal immigrant problem in the the first place -- private American business owners who want to maximize their profits by employing dirt-cheap illegal labor. That's why George W. Bush favored amnesty for illegal immigrants, and that's why the American Chamber of Commerce favors keeping the illegals here -- Both W. and business-friendly Chamber types have the philosophy: "If it's good for business, it's good for America."

The situation is also fraught with complexities -- it may actualy save us all money by extending coverage to illegals.

Let's say you are a doctor working in an emergency room. An illegal laborer comes in -- he was working at the local turkey plant, doing his job of gutting turkey's, which is work few Americans are willing to do.

Anyway, the illegal suffers a massive laceration on the job and is bleeding heavily -- he is taken to a local emergency room -- if you are the emergency room doctor, do you check his visa first, or do you treat him?

You probably treat him -- when you discover he can't pay, you just raise prices for the rest of the legal, covered patients to make up for the loss. If the illegal was covered, his cost would not be passed on to the other patients at that hospital.

True, we would still be paying for coverage with taxes, but it would probaby be not as much as the scenario I describe would cost.

I'm not saying I faver covering ilegals, necessarily -- but I think the situation is not as cut-and-dried as everyone makes it out to be.

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AROCES
Obama is a shrewd and intelligent politician, to be sure.

Of course, we must remember who is responsible for the illegal immigrant problem in the the first place -- private American business owners who want to maximize their profits by employing dirt-cheap illegal labor. That's why George W. Bush favored amnesty for illegal immigrants, and that's why the American Chamber of Commerce favors keeping the illegals here -- Both W. and business-friendly Chamber types have the philosophy: "If it's good for business, it's good for America."

It's one issue I disagree with the Bush Administration, but that is a continuation of a failed policy.

The situation is also fraught with complexities -- it may actualy save us all money by extending coverage to illegals.

Let's say you are a doctor working in an emergency room. An illegal laborer comes in -- he was working at the local turkey plant, doing his job of gutting turkey's, which is work few Americans are willing to do.

Anyway, the illegal suffers a massive laceration on the job and is bleeding heavily -- he is taken to a local emergency room -- if you are the emergency room doctor, do you check his visa first, or do you treat him?

Whoever he is working for will pay for the job accident, besides I have no problem with getting someone taken care of in such accident.

We can do that without Universal Health Care.

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Startraveler

It should be clarified that this is an enforcement issue. The House bill doesn't endorse health care for illegal aliens:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

How this is enforced is fair game for debate but if anyone is attempted to misrepresent this bill as explicitly offering health care to illegal immigrants, please don't.

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AROCES
It should be clarified that this is an enforcement issue. The House bill doesn't endorse health care for illegal aliens:

How this is enforced is fair game for debate but if anyone is attempted to misrepresent this bill as explicitly offering health care to illegal immigrants, please don't.

Like I said, Democrats are trying to please both ends. The Bill says no illegal, but they dont like anything added to assure it. That way the minority groups gets satisfied as well for it is easy to get free healthcare still, all you need is a drivers license which other state allow illegals to have.

See the deception of it?

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yeoman7894
So it does not bother you to shoulder the failure of your neighbor?

I tell you what, why don't you pay double whatever taxes you are paying now and show your true heart and compasion not thru the evil rich.

I am the failed neighbor, how else do you think I have the time to sit around all day reading and responding to your drivel?

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AROCES
I am the failed neighbor, how else do you think I have the time to sit around all day reading and responding to your drivel?

Alright, I like your honesty there. LOL :lol: .

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blinky
Alright, I like your honesty there. LOL :lol: .

yeah but Mr. Obama has been handed the do-nothing approach of the previous administration, locking him into HAVING to do something - that was the plan, and you either fell for it too, or are complicit in throwing everything at him but the kitchen phqng sink

blink

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