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phreakstep

Your God is not real.

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Saru
Back on topic please - last time i'm going to ask.

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Juicebox

whats more ridiculous, the idea or proposal of a god, or the idea that it was all an accident?

a random string of accidents that brought forth life on 1 out of 70 trillion pieces of gas and rock.

There are more STARS in the sky then grains of sand on this planet, counting the bottom of the ocean to the dunes of the sahara.

More stars then sand?! Stars are suns, possibly harvesting life on their celesital orbitee's..

please...if there is no god, tell me how we got here..and make sense.

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Dr. Peter Venkman
whats more ridiculous, the idea or proposal of a god, or the idea that it was all an accident?

a random string of accidents that brought forth life on 1 out of 70 trillion pieces of gas and rock.

There are more STARS in the sky then grains of sand on this planet, counting the bottom of the ocean to the dunes of the sahara.

More stars then sand?! Stars are suns, possibly harvesting life on their celesital orbitee's..

please...if there is no god, tell me how we got here..and make sense.

God makes sense to you?

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W Kein
whats more ridiculous, the idea or proposal of a god, or the idea that it was all an accident?

a random string of accidents that brought forth life on 1 out of 70 trillion pieces of gas and rock.

There are more STARS in the sky then grains of sand on this planet, counting the bottom of the ocean to the dunes of the sahara.

More stars then sand?! Stars are suns, possibly harvesting life on their celesital orbitee's..

please...if there is no god, tell me how we got here..and make sense.

The problem with that, is I can say that if it wasn't for a million random chance events, we wouldn't be here to ask the question.

But yeah, The "Goldilocks Universe" is certainly worthy of some thought.

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The Silver Thong
whats more ridiculous, the idea or proposal of a god, or the idea that it was all an accident?

a random string of accidents that brought forth life on 1 out of 70 trillion pieces of gas and rock.

There are more STARS in the sky then grains of sand on this planet, counting the bottom of the ocean to the dunes of the sahara.

More stars then sand?! Stars are suns, possibly harvesting life on their celesital orbitee's..

please...if there is no god, tell me how we got here..and make sense.

Well not quite as you are assuming that we are the only planet with life or the only life in the universe. Mathematically speaking the univers should have tons of life. The only thing keeping use apart is distance and time. I would never presume that we are the only life forms in the universe. Some people have a need to make oneself feel more special than we really are hence we are the only life in the cosmos.

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Raptor
whats more ridiculous, the idea or proposal of a god, or the idea that it was all an accident?

a random string of accidents that brought forth life on 1 out of 70 trillion pieces of gas and rock.

There are more STARS in the sky then grains of sand on this planet, counting the bottom of the ocean to the dunes of the sahara.

More stars then sand?! Stars are suns, possibly harvesting life on their celesital orbitee's..

please...if there is no god, tell me how we got here..and make sense.

This is one of the arguments that keeps popping up time and time again. It's funny because at first it appears to make sense, but the moment you actually think about it you'll realize that you're shooting yourself in the foot.

So we have two possible options:

1. There is not a god.

2. There is a god (or multiple gods)

Okay so we want to try and come up with explanations for these two options. Starting with number one, hmm, okay, how did the universe get here? That's a difficult question, right? Even if the big bang explains how the universe as we know it came in to existence, then well, where did the big bang come from? So that doesn't make any sense, something can't come from nothing! So option two must be correct, there must be god!

So now we've solved that mystery but - oh, wait, so then where did god come from? Huh. Well if god was always here or came from nothing, then why couldn't the universe?

At least with option one we only have to explain how the universe got here, with option two we have to explain how god appeared and how he created the universe, which is significantly more complex. Which ever way you try to view it, the godless universe is always going to be inherently simpler than one with a god.

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phreakstep
This is one of the arguments that keeps popping up time and time again. It's funny because at first it appears to make sense, but the moment you actually think about it you'll realize that you're shooting yourself in the foot.

So we have two possible options:

1. There is not a god.

2. There is a god (or multiple gods)

Okay so we want to try and come up with explanations for these two options. Starting with number one, hmm, okay, how did the universe get here? That's a difficult question, right? Even if the big bang explains how the universe as we know it came in to existence, then well, where did the big bang come from? So that doesn't make any sense, something can't come from nothing! So option two must be correct, there must be god!

So now we've solved that mystery but - oh, wait, so then where did god come from? Huh. Well if god was always here or came from nothing, then why couldn't the universe?

At least with option one we only have to explain how the universe got here, with option two we have to explain how god appeared and how he created the universe, which is significantly more complex. Which ever way you try to view it, the godless universe is always going to be inherently simpler than one with a god.

Agreed

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MARAB0D
God makes sense to you?

Objective God makes no sense while Subjective makes sense to the owner of it.

From Objective point of view God presents an unknown factor, and thus cannot fit into any rational logical chain. Mathematics does not operate with the "unknown" factors, same as Logic.

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Dr. Peter Venkman
Objective God makes no sense while Subjective makes sense to the owner of it.

From Objective point of view God presents an unknown factor, and thus cannot fit into any rational logical chain. Mathematics does not operate with the "unknown" factors, same as Logic.

Thanks Juicebox......

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Juicebox

still didn't answer my question.

All you're constantly doing is proving that you dont know the answer.

God makes more sense to me then any of the above explanations, but lets look at your "big bang".

You're telling me that If i lay some rocks in my back yard, mixed with some elements of life and smash them together that in 2,000 years theres gonna be a baseball team out there? No.

If the big bang makes so much sense, then why can't we even prove it? you can't.

my "assumption" is that we're NOT alone, not that we're the only ones here.

You all try your best to use science to explain everything, but only leaving the real answers in the dark.

You want me to prove god exists? Look at yourself.

Wheres the missing link in evolution? Wheres the connection between the living and non-living matter?

If you've got an answer, please share..if you're gonna come here and pretty much say "I dont know" using the best tongue, then try somewhere else.

My god is real.

Since it's so easy to disprove "My god" then go ahead Doc.

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Dr. Peter Venkman
still didn't answer my question.

All you're constantly doing is proving that you dont know the answer.

God makes more sense to me then any of the above explanations, but lets look at your "big bang".

You're telling me that If i lay some rocks in my back yard, mixed with some elements of life and smash them together that in 2,000 years theres gonna be a baseball team out there? No.

If the big bang makes so much sense, then why can't we even prove it? you can't.

my "assumption" is that we're NOT alone, not that we're the only ones here.

You all try your best to use science to explain everything, but only leaving the real answers in the dark.

You want me to prove god exists? Look at yourself.

Wheres the missing link in evolution? Wheres the connection between the living and non-living matter?

If you've got an answer, please share..if you're gonna come here and pretty much say "I dont know" using the best tongue, then try somewhere else.

My god is real.

Since it's so easy to disprove "My god" then go ahead Doc.

I never set out disprove your God. I asked if God made sense to you. It requires a yes or no answer. I will assume that your answer is a yes. My reply is a why?

Edit- I did not answer your question, and I apologize for not doing so. Here- My answer is that I don't really care how we were created or how we got here etc. Doesn't matter to me. Scientific theories such as the Big bang and Abiogenesis are more interesting to me than just saying "God dit it" For all we know God still did it... Those explain how he did it. Or not... another question... Why does it matter to you?

Edited by Dr. Peter Venkman

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Doug1029
whats more ridiculous, the idea or proposal of a god, or the idea that it was all an accident?

a random string of accidents that brought forth life on 1 out of 70 trillion pieces of gas and rock.

There are more STARS in the sky then grains of sand on this planet, counting the bottom of the ocean to the dunes of the sahara.

More stars then sand?! Stars are suns, possibly harvesting life on their celesital orbitee's..

please...if there is no god, tell me how we got here..and make sense.

"Accident" implies a pre-existing intent or purpose. As far as we know, everything, including time, began at the Big Bang. Nobody knows enough to say that there was an intent behind our existence; therefore, no way to know if it's all an "accident."

And: if creation requires a Creator, the what created the Creator? Is creation circular so that the Creator creates himself? Ultimately, there is no way to know.

There is no shame in admitting that we don't know. Indeed, to most questions, it is the only honest answer.

Doug

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Sherapy
"Accident" implies a pre-existing intent or purpose. As far as we know, everything, including time, began at the Big Bang. Nobody knows enough to say that there was an intent behind our existence; therefore, no way to know if it's all an "accident."

And: if creation requires a Creator, the what created the Creator? Is creation circular so that the Creator creates himself? Ultimately, there is no way to know.

There is no shame in admitting that we don't know. Indeed, to most questions, it is the only honest answer.

Doug

:tu: very well said doug..

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Dr. Peter Venkman
:tu: very well said doug..

I agree. well said! :tu:

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Raptor
still didn't answer my question.

All you're constantly doing is proving that you dont know the answer.

God makes more sense to me then any of the above explanations, but lets look at your "big bang".

You're telling me that If i lay some rocks in my back yard, mixed with some elements of life and smash them together that in 2,000 years theres gonna be a baseball team out there? No.

If the big bang makes so much sense, then why can't we even prove it? you can't.

my "assumption" is that we're NOT alone, not that we're the only ones here.

You all try your best to use science to explain everything, but only leaving the real answers in the dark.

You want me to prove god exists? Look at yourself.

Wheres the missing link in evolution? Wheres the connection between the living and non-living matter?

If you've got an answer, please share..if you're gonna come here and pretty much say "I dont know" using the best tongue, then try somewhere else.

My god is real.

Since it's so easy to disprove "My god" then go ahead Doc.

Serious question: How are you so ignorant of scientific understanding yet so sure that it is wrong?

Edited by Raptor

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Dr. Peter Venkman
Serious question: How are you so ignorant of scientific understanding yet so sure that it is wrong?

C'mon man, lets seriously discuss this. Let him answer why and possibly describe which theories don't make sense to him. If you have any insight as to why he doesn't feel science offers a reasonable theory, then explain it to him!

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Sherapy
C'mon man, lets seriously discuss this. Let him answer why and possibly describe which theories don't make sense to him. If you have any insight as to why he doesn't feel science offers a reasonable theory, then explain it to him!

agreed Doc..... :tu:

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MARAB0D
"Accident" implies a pre-existing intent or purpose. As far as we know, everything, including time, began at the Big Bang. Nobody knows enough to say that there was an intent behind our existence; therefore, no way to know if it's all an "accident."

And: if creation requires a Creator, the what created the Creator? Is creation circular so that the Creator creates himself? Ultimately, there is no way to know.

There is no shame in admitting that we don't know. Indeed, to most questions, it is the only honest answer.

Doug

I can agree with the rationality of your approach, just want to clarify that Big Bang is not a proven fact, but a concept, based on the idea that the expansion of the Universe is happening with constant linear velocity. It is only in this case we can estimate the timing of Big bang, as when we suggest that this expansion goes with non-linear velocity then depending on the functionality of this velocity changes, "Big Bang" could actually happen Infinite time ago (say, if the velocity change law is logarithmic or hyperbolic etc) - which would be the same as to say the Universe always existed.

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Raptor
C'mon man, lets seriously discuss this. Let him answer why and possibly describe which theories don't make sense to him. If you have any insight as to why he doesn't feel science offers a reasonable theory, then explain it to him!

Well there's no point in beating around the bush. I admit that I have far less patience with these matters than I should do, as a result of the sheer number of people passing through forums like these that constantly try to fight logic and reasoning with every ounce of strength that they have; but if I feel I have a chance to help out in any way then really, I'll be first in line to do so.

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shine on you crazy diamond
...ok, sooo, what kind of wrath? what happened?

its funny how you claim something is truth, but back it up with 'because i believe it. its based on nothing at all, other than my belief. but that makes it fact'.

it is difficult to explain, however, i will try: first came a feeling of dread. it wasn't fear exactly, it was the sudden realization that things were not in my hands anymore. i had a sort of childlike curiosity about what was happening to me. the world started to change, the colors seemed to become more saturated and then the whole world started to get darker. a pressure started to build up within me, it was in my back, and my neck, and then it migrated to my head, which was the most uncomfortable. my ears started to ring. then a force came from the top of me. it made my skin crawl, i felt utterly disgusting and cold and confined. i was just sitting there in my car, trying to pay attention to the road and not get into an accident. i remember laughing aloud at one point and i just said, "aw hell no!" and then everything subsided.

i pulled off at a rest stop and ran into a field. i had to take a walk. i started to observe the world around me. the sun was out, the air was warm and clean, the birds were singing and bugs were chirping. in all my life i'd never felt such peace, i'd never felt more connected to nature. i walked along a path and contemplated everything that had happened and what i was then feeling. in that moment i understood duality. i realized that i was a part of life and that i was supposed to live it.

eventually i made it back home. i went to the bookshelf and picked up the quran for the first time.

please do not put words in my mouth, or presume to know me. i believe this because i know it is truth.

if you want proof, you're going to have to hold out your hand, man. He really likes it when you sing to Him. there is physical proof in that you can feel Him reciprocating your affections. ask Him a question and He will give you guidance through signs in the world. you really can't chalk it up to coincidence when it happens multiple times everyday. if you draw closer to Him, He will make himself known. if you alienate yourself from Him too much, He will also make Himself known, which was what happened to me. i don't know what else to say. may God help you?

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shine on you crazy diamond
I once realized that god was very real. Then some failings on god's part got me to thinking: what evidence underpins belief in god? I couldn't find any or anybody who could show me any. There is no tangible evidence of anything supernatural.

Because you, I or the preacher happen to think there is a god, does not in any way demonstrate the idea as fact. If you choose to believe in God, do so; but have the integrity to admit that you do it without any supporting evidence.

And that's what is called faith.

Doug

God does not fail. mankind fails. He makes things clear to those who seek the truth and punishes those who reject it. open your eyes and look at the world around you to see tangible evidence of what happens when His law is not obeyed.

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Dr. Peter Venkman
Well there's no point in beating around the bush. I admit that I have far less patience with these matters than I should do, as a result of the sheer number of people passing through forums like these that constantly try to fight logic and reasoning with every ounce of strength that they have; but if I feel I have a chance to help out in any way then really, I'll be first in line to do so.

You have a hell of alot more knowledge than I when it comes to science. I'm your input is always appreciated man.

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Dr. Peter Venkman
it is difficult to explain, however, i will try: first came a feeling of dread. it wasn't fear exactly, it was the sudden realization that things were not in my hands anymore. i had a sort of childlike curiosity about what was happening to me. the world started to change, the colors seemed to become more saturated and then the whole world started to get darker. a pressure started to build up within me, it was in my back, and my neck, and then it migrated to my head, which was the most uncomfortable. my ears started to ring. then a force came from the top of me. it made my skin crawl, i felt utterly disgusting and cold and confined. i was just sitting there in my car, trying to pay attention to the road and not get into an accident. i remember laughing aloud at one point and i just said, "aw hell no!" and then everything subsided.

i pulled off at a rest stop and ran into a field. i had to take a walk. i started to observe the world around me. the sun was out, the air was warm and clean, the birds were singing and bugs were chirping. in all my life i'd never felt such peace, i'd never felt more connected to nature. i walked along a path and contemplated everything that had happened and what i was then feeling. in that moment i understood duality. i realized that i was a part of life and that i was supposed to live it.

eventually i made it back home. i went to the bookshelf and picked up the quran for the first time.

please do not put words in my mouth, or presume to know me. i believe this because i know it is truth.

if you want proof, you're going to have to hold out your hand, man. He really likes it when you sing to Him. there is physical proof in that you can feel Him reciprocating your affections. ask Him a question and He will give you guidance through signs in the world. you really can't chalk it up to coincidence when it happens multiple times everyday. if you draw closer to Him, He will make himself known. if you alienate yourself from Him too much, He will also make Himself known, which was what happened to me. i don't know what else to say. may God help you?

Please don't take this the wrong way man, as I don't wish to take away from your own personal experiences, but you have to understand how a person reading your story may not see any divine inspiration at work here at all.

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MysticOnion
it is difficult to explain, however, i will try: first came a feeling of dread. it wasn't fear exactly, it was the sudden realization that things were not in my hands anymore. i had a sort of childlike curiosity about what was happening to me. the world started to change, the colors seemed to become more saturated and then the whole world started to get darker. a pressure started to build up within me, it was in my back, and my neck, and then it migrated to my head, which was the most uncomfortable. my ears started to ring. then a force came from the top of me. it made my skin crawl, i felt utterly disgusting and cold and confined. i was just sitting there in my car, trying to pay attention to the road and not get into an accident. i remember laughing aloud at one point and i just said, "aw hell no!" and then everything subsided.

i pulled off at a rest stop and ran into a field. i had to take a walk. i started to observe the world around me. the sun was out, the air was warm and clean, the birds were singing and bugs were chirping. in all my life i'd never felt such peace, i'd never felt more connected to nature. i walked along a path and contemplated everything that had happened and what i was then feeling. in that moment i understood duality. i realized that i was a part of life and that i was supposed to live it.

eventually i made it back home. i went to the bookshelf and picked up the quran for the first time.

please do not put words in my mouth, or presume to know me. i believe this because i know it is truth.

if you want proof, you're going to have to hold out your hand, man. He really likes it when you sing to Him. there is physical proof in that you can feel Him reciprocating your affections. ask Him a question and He will give you guidance through signs in the world. you really can't chalk it up to coincidence when it happens multiple times everyday. if you draw closer to Him, He will make himself known. if you alienate yourself from Him too much, He will also make Himself known, which was what happened to me. i don't know what else to say. may God help you?

When all is lost thats when you find the truth. And you did. And well done to you. I thought your experience echoed some of my own in many ways.

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MysticOnion
Please don't take this the wrong way man, as I don't wish to take away from your own personal experiences, but you have to understand how a person reading your story may not see any divine inspiration at work here at all.

I do. And I don't believe in God either. Ever been there Doc? Where there really REALLY is nothing and you honestly truly could die...

What he found was life.

Which is incidentally what you find when you seek death. However he lives his life now - its in his own belief.. his own choice.. and it is so so fulfilling.

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