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MARAB0D

:innocent: What is Heavens?

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MARAB0D

I guess we've heard enough about the Hell. Say, the discussion of the stick is over, and we have taken this option of our future for consideration... Now, it is the time to hear about the carrot. Can someone, experienced in the Bible, explain what exactly are we given for our obedience and love? How do religious people visualise Heavens, what do they expect to see in it?

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Holy Cross
I guess we've heard enough about the Hell. Say, the discussion of the stick is over, and we have taken this option of our future for consideration... Now, it is the time to hear about the carrot. Can someone, experienced in the Bible, explain what exactly are we given for our obedience and love? How do religious people visualise Heavens, what do they expect to see in it?

Heaven is another world in which spirits are it is not a physical world it is a spirit world. Yes you can see people there but it is more spirited then the earth is and is what you may say is difficult to image. Look at it this way before you come to the earth or born a spirit is in the spirit world waiting to be put in your body on earth when you are born to bring life into the body. God teaches the spirits in heaven and then puts them on the earth to test them out and see if they will follow what he taught them. So in a way earth is a vacation trip and once your time is done on earth you return to your place of origin with god. But if you dont follow god and instead follow satan then you go to the evil sprited world of satan. its your choice basically either do goods things and go to heaven or do bad things and go to hell.

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MARAB0D
Heaven is another world in which spirits are it is not a physical world it is a spirit world. Yes you can see people there but it is more spirited then the earth is and is what you may say is difficult to image. Look at it this way before you come to the earth or born a spirit is in the spirit world waiting to be put in your body on earth when you are born to bring life into the body. God teaches the spirits in heaven and then puts them on the earth to test them out and see if they will follow what he taught them. So in a way earth is a vacation trip and once your time is done on earth you return to your place of origin with god. But if you dont follow god and instead follow satan then you go to the evil sprited world of satan. its your choice basically either do goods things and go to heaven or do bad things and go to hell.

Do you have some references? All I know is that people must resurrect (according to Nicene Creed), means they must acquire back their physical bodies... Like Christ did - unless you suggest Thomas was putting his fingers into a Spirit?

Means they go to Heavens not as spirits, but in their flesh, same as to Hell. So, this is the reson I am wondering what the Heavens is Heavens? Would they have jobs there? What would they eat except caviar, oysters and bananas. What would be a social system, allowing them to eat their bread in sweat, like God ordered in Genesis? Capitalism? Socialism? Communism? Something else? Would they have sex and procreate there? Would there be prostitutes like those who followed Jesus? What would the life look like there? Would there be money? Would there be laws? Would there be tax returns?

When you say "spirits" - this is not Christian, this is Buddhist! Or Pagan. If they resurrect and do not have a body like Jesus had - would this be a fake resurrection? A lot of questions I have!!!

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Karlis
I guess we've heard enough about the Hell. Say, the discussion of the stick is over, and we have taken this option of our future for consideration... Now, it is the time to hear about the carrot. Can someone, experienced in the Bible, explain what exactly are we given for our obedience and love? How do religious people visualise Heavens, what do they expect to see in it?
There is a general misunderstanding concerning heaven and salvation.

The promise is not that the "saved and resurrected" will inherit heaven, or live in heaven. The promise is that they will possess and live on Planet Earth.

Strange as it may sound to most people, this is what the Bible teaches, :tu:

Karlis

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MARAB0D

LOL, Karlis - I am too dumb to sort out what it teaches myself, as it is a lot of things I cannot understand. I only hear that I would go to Hell id I do not urgently start to believe, and I would go to Heavens in alternative case. So, all I want is to have a property inspection before buying it.

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markprice

There is a lot of good land up there, according to Enoch.

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MARAB0D
There is a lot of good land up there, according to Enoch.

I presume so, as it surely must be worth to get in it, this Heavens. What I am surprised with is that I do not see here the crowds of preachers, which immediately fill the forum when you ask "what is Hell?"...

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Leonardo

It is my understanding that what Karlis has suggested is what the bible promotes, that 'Heaven' is the Kingdom of God for those resurrected dwelling on Earth. In this sense, 'Heaven' is both a place (Earth) and a state of being (living under the Kingship of God). I'm not sure about Islam, but I believe both Christianity and Judaism reflect this reinterpretation?

There is obviously a lot of confusion about Heaven as the earlier biblical myths regarding where God dwells (and where those who live according to God's will abide with God) reflect the other early beliefs (in other religions) that this dwelling place is somewhere 'in the sky' (Yahweh was a storm god, after all). In the later versions of the mythology this was reinterpreted to distance the belief from it's beginnings so as to appear less a derivative (and primitive) religion.

The Word of God is inviolate, but apparently this only applies to non-believers.

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MysticOnion
It is my understanding that what Karlis has suggested is what the bible promotes, that 'Heaven' is the Kingdom of God for those resurrected dwelling on Earth. In this sense, 'Heaven' is both a place (Earth) and a state of being (living under the Kingship of God). I'm not sure about Islam, but I believe both Christianity and Judaism reflect this reinterpretation?

There is obviously a lot of confusion about Heaven as the earlier biblical myths regarding where God dwells (and where those who live according to God's will abide with God) reflect the other early beliefs (in other religions) that this dwelling place is somewhere 'in the sky' (Yahweh was a storm god, after all). In the later versions of the mythology this was reinterpreted to distance the belief from it's beginnings so as to appear less a derivative (and primitive) religion.

The Word of God is inviolate, but apparently this only applies to non-believers.

Yes I agree with Karlis on the definition of Heaven. I think it was described as a New Jerusalem and its called the Heavenly Jerusalem of St. John and I think its even described in revelation. Check out this link.

http://www.thehope.org/RHJ4.htm

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PN8RdHF...lt&resnum=5

You could take it I suppose that the Heavenly Jerusalem is a city within Heaven - OR that it it IS Heaven.

Personally I see it as a description of a Giant Cube.. or Qabalah.

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MARAB0D
Yes I agree with Karlis on the definition of Heaven. I think it was described as a New Jerusalem and its called the Heavenly Jerusalem of St. John and I think its even described in revelation. Check out this link.

http://www.thehope.org/RHJ4.htm

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PN8RdHF...lt&resnum=5

You could take it I suppose that the Heavenly Jerusalem is a city within Heaven - OR that it it IS Heaven.

Personally I see it as a description of a Giant Cube.. or Qabalah.

Do you mean Kaaba?

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MysticOnion
Do you mean Kaaba?

No I mean Qabalah. Tree of life is cubical... described very well as a heavenly city.

Though interestingly Kaaba and Qabalah are very similar. And Kaaba is a Giant cube.

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MARAB0D
No I mean Qabalah. Tree of life is cubical... described very well as a heavenly city.

Though interestingly Kaaba and Qabalah are very similar. And Kaaba is a Giant cube.

I never heard of a cubical tree... But, again, I do not read much of this stuff, never was interested until recently ran into these missionaries here. Strange, but no one came here to educate us on Heavens.

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shine on you crazy diamond

according to islam, heaven will be a paradise, a place of peace and relaxation. it is the opposite of hell, which will be a place of torment and suffering. there are many verses in the quran which explain it as "gardens under which rivers flow", free of the corruptions we know here on earth. it is the ultimate reward for righteous behavior and true faith.

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MARAB0D
according to islam, heaven will be a paradise, a place of peace and relaxation. it is the opposite of hell, which will be a place of torment and suffering. there are many verses in the quran which explain it as "gardens under which rivers flow", free of the corruptions we know here on earth. it is the ultimate reward for righteous behavior and true faith.

Paradise - no problem. What exactly people do in this paradise is what I am after. Zoo is also a paradise for some species.

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MysticOnion
I never heard of a cubical tree... But, again, I do not read much of this stuff, never was interested until recently ran into these missionaries here. Strange, but no one came here to educate us on Heavens.

Qabalah is a cubical tree. Its a lot more than that as well - and I don't think you're the only one who hasn't got a clue about it - there might be one or two on here who've never heard of it either.

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MARAB0D
Qabalah is a cubical tree. Its a lot more than that as well - and I don't think you're the only one who hasn't got a clue about it - there might be one or two on here who've never heard of it either.

Can you make some references? I mean to some prophetic writing, not just to some "researchers".

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shine on you crazy diamond
Paradise - no problem. What exactly people do in this paradise is what I am after. Zoo is also a paradise for some species.

they chillax, yo! in all seriousness, i couldn't tell ya, as i'm not living in paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

but according to compiled hadith and collected works of various religious scholars, khawaja mohammad islam writes in 'the spectacle of death', pp. 382-383:

Whatever we learn and understand about the things of Heaven by listening or reading about them is far less than the actual; in reality, when we go into Heaven, we shall find those things loftier and of much greater magnitude than we had imagined. This will be so because, in the first place, there will be many more blessings in Paradise in addition to those which have been mentioned in the Quran and Hadith. Secondly, because full knowledge regarding a blessing can only be gained through vision and enjoyment, and not from only hearing about it. Hence in this world one cannot fully comprehend the reality and the delight of the bounties of Paradise. According to a tradition reported by Hadrat Abu Huraira (may God be pleased with him), the Prophet of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) observed: "The Magnificent Lord says: I have prepared for My pious people things unseen and unheard of and things which are beyond the comprehension of man". Thereafter the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: "Wouldst thou confirm what I have said? Read this verse from the Holy Quran: So no soul knows what refreshment of the eye is hidden for them."

all we know is that it is good. anything else is speculation.

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shine on you crazy diamond

pardon my ignorance, but is this qabalah to judaism what sufism is to islam? kind of like mystery schools that branch off from the original teachings?

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MARAB0D
they chillax, yo! in all seriousness, i couldn't tell ya, as i'm not living in paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

but according to compiled hadith and collected works of various religious scholars, khawaja mohammad islam writes in 'the spectacle of death', pp. 382-383:

all we know is that it is good. anything else is speculation.

Same as in Christianity - no details. I only started this thread because they come in their numbers and threaten to non-believers with Hell. None of them though has any comprehensive idea of what Hell is... Same relates to Heaven. All say it is good in it, but what is good for one is not always good for the other...

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Manszilla
It is my understanding that what Karlis has suggested is what the bible promotes, that 'Heaven' is the Kingdom of God for those resurrected dwelling on Earth. In this sense, 'Heaven' is both a place (Earth) and a state of being (living under the Kingship of God). I'm not sure about Islam, but I believe both Christianity and Judaism reflect this reinterpretation?

There is obviously a lot of confusion about Heaven as the earlier biblical myths regarding where God dwells (and where those who live according to God's will abide with God) reflect the other early beliefs (in other religions) that this dwelling place is somewhere 'in the sky' (Yahweh was a storm god, after all). In the later versions of the mythology this was reinterpreted to distance the belief from it's beginnings so as to appear less a derivative (and primitive) religion.

The Word of God is inviolate, but apparently this only applies to non-believers.

Not hardly, Yahweh is clearly distinct from numerous Els and Baals of the surrounding religions. These were the true storm gods, fertility gods, and mountain gods. Yahweh was never narrowed in likeness.

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shine on you crazy diamond
Same as in Christianity - no details. I only started this thread because they come in their numbers and threaten to non-believers with Hell. None of them though has any comprehensive idea of what Hell is... Same relates to Heaven. All say it is good in it, but what is good for one is not always good for the other...

then if you like fire, seek after hell. if you like water, then seek after heaven. the only knowledge we have is limited and you see this. why would anyone have anything to offer that you don't already know yourself? only God knows all that was, is, and will be.

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MysticOnion
Can you make some references? I mean to some prophetic writing, not just to some "researchers".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Qabalah

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Hermeticism/Qabalah.htm

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Qabalah

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&r...Codex&meta=

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ukzu-4Z...lt&resnum=3

I don't know if any of these are any good to you. If you want to know more just look up anything by Aleister Crowley or Dion Fortune - who were experts in Hermetic Qabalah.

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MARAB0D
then if you like fire, seek after hell. if you like water, then seek after heaven. the only knowledge we have is limited and you see this. why would anyone have anything to offer that you don't already know yourself? only God knows all that was, is, and will be.

I am not seeking anything at the moment except for the clarification of what some people recommend to seek. If I promise you to deliver kjehvhblwebrvlkjb you would ask me what it is! Same with the Heavens.

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MARAB0D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Qabalah

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Hermeticism/Qabalah.htm

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Qabalah

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&r...Codex&meta=

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ukzu-4Z...lt&resnum=3

I don't know if any of these are any good to you. If you want to know more just look up anything by Aleister Crowley or Dion Fortune - who were experts in Hermetic Qabalah.

I already looked in Malny Hall's Encyclopaedia. Not all "secret teachings" are representing some knowledge, many simply belong to the religious sects. In esoteric sense there is no trees and no shapes, as this is all just temporary illusion derived from Nothing, all I can do is to check the local market for cubic carrots.

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