fullywired Posted July 28, 2009 #76 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Christians wrong about heaven says Anglican Bishop, read it here http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1710844,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted July 28, 2009 Author #77 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Christians wrong about heaven says Anglican Bishop, read it herehttp://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1710844,00.html Interesting... So, as I understand, Christians actually follow Dante and Michelangelo, rather than Christ! Not saying they 180 degrees deviate from the Bible. I just love Anglican church, it is absolutely most scandalous church in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted July 28, 2009 #78 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Interesting... So, as I understand, Christians actually follow Dante and Michelangelo, rather than Christ! Not saying they 180 degrees deviate from the Bible. I just love Anglican church, it is absolutely most scandalous church in the world.Wonders will never cease, it seems. It's nice to read the truth about Bible teachings, for a change. Bishop Wright tells it as it is about heaven, hell, souls and "born again" aka resurrection. *For the most part* he's right. Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor-el Posted July 28, 2009 #79 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Wonders will never cease, it seems. It's nice to read the truth about Bible teachings, for a change. Bishop Wright tells it as it is about heaven, hell, souls and "born again" aka resurrection. *For the most part* he's right. Karlis This must one of those days when miracles happen... the bible actually winning out over tradition from a traditionalist, no less.... I'm impressed!!! It also falls exactly into what I've been saying regarding a New heavens and New earth.... Edited July 28, 2009 by Jor-el Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted July 28, 2009 Author #80 Share Posted July 28, 2009 This must one of those days when miracles happen... the bible actually winning out over tradition from a traditionalist, no less....I'm impressed!!! It also falls exactly into what I've been saying regarding a New heavens and New earth.... It does, at least according to that fellow - differently from the silly housewife, who dreams of "sitting on the cloud and talking" But personally it gives no hope for me, as these new heavens and new earth do not appeal to me anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted July 29, 2009 #81 Share Posted July 29, 2009 It does, at least according to that fellow - differently from the silly housewife, who dreams of "sitting on the cloud and talking" But personally it gives no hope for me, as these new heavens and new earth do not appeal to me anyhow.Marabod, what is your understanding of the "new heavens and new earth"? Reason I'm asking is because I'm curious as to why that does not appeal to you.Regards, Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted July 29, 2009 Author #82 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Marabod, what is your understanding of the "new heavens and new earth"? Reason I'm asking is because I'm curious as to why that does not appeal to you.Regards, Karlis I do not have any understanding, and this is why I started the thread. I was presented with a concept, echoed in this article which Fullywired posted. if you want the concept itself - read the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted August 2, 2009 #83 Share Posted August 2, 2009 It would seem to me that heaven is a giant cube, and they've made a little story around it to give folks some hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor-el Posted August 2, 2009 #84 Share Posted August 2, 2009 It would seem to me that heaven is a giant cube, and they've made a little story around it to give folks some hope. As a matter of fact you are correct, the dimensions given of the Holy City we call the New Jerusalem is in fact cubic. Since the dimensions are within the framework of the story, then one accepts it all or refuses it all, there are no halfway measures.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted August 2, 2009 Author #85 Share Posted August 2, 2009 As a matter of fact you are correct, the dimensions given of the Holy City we call the New Jerusalem is in fact cubic. Since the dimensions are within the framework of the story, then one accepts it all or refuses it all, there are no halfway measures.... So, all entire life and huge efforts of the believers are only... to get sent into a cube??? Whats wrong with a Zoo cage then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jor-el Posted August 2, 2009 #86 Share Posted August 2, 2009 So, all entire life and huge efforts of the believers are only... to get sent into a cube??? Whats wrong with a Zoo cage then? Hmmm, I'd say that heaven is not for everyone, that might include you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted August 2, 2009 Author #87 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Hmmm, I'd say that heaven is not for everyone, that might include you... In practical sense what you think of Heavens includes only 1 person - yourself. Due to the lack of independent evidences. But in this particular case I am wondering, if the Heaven is "a cube in which all would be good", and this is all what is known or suggested, then how can it be a powerful drive which keeps person actively trying to achieve this good cube through the entire life? See what I mean? And this is AFTER the death - while we know that "God is only for living people", same way as Good and Bad only make sense as evaluations of someone's physical perception, so only a material person can feel that the Cube is good, not some abstract spirit, while a material person would sure be unable to live happily when locked in a cube, parallelepiped, sphere, cone or any other specific shape! This simply makes no sense. For those outside you, I mean; to me it looks like your Personal subjective god pronised to place you in a cube after your death - but i leave it with you, as my personal God promised to put me in the coffin after I die, and a coffin is of a funnier shape than a cube (unless I grow really fat by that time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markprice Posted August 2, 2009 #88 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Heaven is a cube? That's only for squares. Heaven is infinite...otherwise it would be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysticOnion Posted August 3, 2009 #89 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Well I'd say its a cube but an infinate multidimensional cube that you can't get out of no matter how hard you try - thus giving the illusion of infinate space - kind of like being inside a cubical mirror.. reflecting for eternity except there's no barriers and you can go wherever you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted August 3, 2009 Author #90 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Well I'd say its a cube but an infinate multidimensional cube that you can't get out of no matter how hard you try - thus giving the illusion of infinate space - kind of like being inside a cubical mirror.. reflecting for eternity except there's no barriers and you can go wherever you like. Infinity of the Everything suggests infinity of existing dimensions - thus adding only one more is only a first iteration, first step to infinity. We operate in 3d - and dream of 4d as Heavenly Cube... But why necessarily a cube? There is so many 3d shapes, and all have extensions into the other dimensions. The simplest shape, is however a point, a dot, a nothing. A cube has to many dots combined in it for it to be Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metacast Posted August 4, 2009 #91 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) this excerpt describes some of my veiws on heaven. I personally see heaven as a consciousness thats founded in love-doubling over love, and this if present means heaven becomes a home and way of everflowing life and relating to life the same.. errr. difficult The Gate of Heaven After I said that, one of the Pharisees who was won came forward and said: “Lord and Master, since You have now said that the gate of Heaven stands wide open for all of us, would it then not be possible that we all could see with our eyes the opened gate of Heaven so that we somehow could form an idea of how Heaven looks like from the inside? Because through the opened gate we surely will be able to see a small part of it.” I said: “How long will I have to be with you and suffer your materialistic attitude? For who is the gate to the true Kingdom of Heaven? I am the gate, the way and Heaven Myself. He who listens to Me, believes in Me, and loves the Father in Me above all, will walk through the right gate of all life the light way to the Kingdom of the Heavens that is created spiritually out of My pure love in the lightest and most living form out of My wisdom. Do not look up or down with your fleshly eyes if you want to perceive the true sight and the nature of Heaven which is the Kingdom of God, but direct the eyes of your mind at your inner awareness of love. There you will see Heaven, even everywhere, no matter in which place you will be in My creations, be it on this Earth or on another, this does not matter, because the view of Heaven will form itself out of the foundation of your life, just like it is formed by My word and by your good works. Only by means of your own Heaven will you be able to come in My eternal and infinite great Heaven. Remember this well, all of you: God’s Kingdom will not display any outer splendor and will also not come to you in an outer image and form, but it is in your deepest inner being and exists in the spirit of pure love for God and for fellowman and in the truth of the resulting life of the soul. For he who does not have or is aware of any love for God or fellowman in himself does also not have life in himself and no resurrection, which is Heaven in man, and consequently also no life within, but only the judgment and the resulting eternal death, instead of the only true and perfect life in Heaven. In a certain way the souls of the evil ones continue also to live after death, but they are only apparently alive, just like all matter and just like the life of certain animals who sleep during the whole long winter in a subterranean hole and who are totally passive. If you look at this now a little closer, you hopefully will not say to Me anymore: ‘Lord, show us the gate of Heaven and by that also a little of Heaven itself, or show us also Hell, so that we, being warned by its sight can restrain ourselves more easily from all sins.’ He who asks that, I will have to call a fool. Every human being has either Heaven or in the worst case, Hell completely in him and can view everything in himself. However, he who carries Hell in himself, is deaf and blind in his mind. Only now and then will his conscience remember him, otherwise he would not be aware of Hell in himself, for a soul who has become infernal is already as good as completely dead by the judgment of all his matter. But a soul who by his good works according to My will, carries Heaven in him, can also view in himself Heaven on a clear daylight, and from time to time also during the night in clear visions. For visions are given to man to have a certain communion with the world of the spirits, with the lower ones as well as with the higher ones, according to how much or how little of the true Heaven that the soul has build and in fact has created by his good works according to God’s will. Thus, walk according to My commandments, then you will easily and quickly be aware of the nature of Heaven in yourself. Did all of you also understand this very well?” The Jews, Romans, Egyptians and Indians said: “Yes, Lord and Master, and we thank You from the deepest of our heart for Your teaching to us, who are still very blind and deaf, despite that You have given us so much and such a great light. Therefore, we also ask You to have patience with our still great weaknesses. But we will from now on surely do our best, so that Your holy light that has been given to us will shine increasingly brighter in us.” http://www.jakoblorberbooks.com/excerpts/the-gate-of-heaven/ Edited August 4, 2009 by ADbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARAB0D Posted August 4, 2009 Author #92 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Does it mean in general that we must believe in anything which we cannot see, or only to some selected parts of what we cannot see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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