The me-first, screw-everyone-else crowd

[Startraveler]

Like any other Country, the United States had its ups and down. My personal opinion is the United states was at its greatest when Apollo 11 landed, for once the whole world was at one with one common goal and cheering as one.

It's industrial might is what makes America, not really the elected officials in the govenment.

I'm sorry, hang on. To make sure this absolutely crystal clear: your idea of America being great is a massive (and expensive) government program uniting the country in common purpose? Moreover, you're dismayed by the deindustrializing forces that gutted blue collar work in this country over the last four decades.

You sound surprisingly like a. . .liberal.

[danielost]

I'm sorry, hang on. To make sure this absolutely crystal clear: your idea of America being great is a massive (and expensive) government program uniting the country in common purpose? Moreover, you're dismayed by the deindustrializing forces that gutted blue collar work in this country over the last four decades.

You sound surprisingly like a. . .liberal.

no the liberals want to get the blue collar work in this country(for environmental reasons), but they also don't want it to go over sea.

[danielost]

I have a friend whose parents owned a large company and both were killed in an auto accident in 1957. He was the only son and inherited everything.

In 1958 he entered Harvard and as of 2006 (the last I heard of him) he was still studying at Harvard. He used the money to be a professional student and I have no idea how many degrees he holds but I have heard that it is impressive.

So here was this young millionare who used his money to study. Sounds like something one could justify, right? But today he has this vast knowledge and keeps it to himself. No one has benefitted from it and he does not seem to care if he ever uses it for a common good. It is his, after all, paid for with his money.

That is the attitude I see here from many. Rise to the top and find comfort in the belief that you have no responsibilities any anyone. And if you mention starving kids in Africa or those in need of any benefit domestically, they are the first to scream socialism.

Moreover, they are the ones who claim that this is the principle that brought greatness to the United States!

Greatness came to the United States men leaving the comfort of their plantations and estates to be leaders of a great revolution. It came from merchants loaning their ships to be converted into naval warships. It came from the wealthy placing all they had at risk to be part of a budding government.

None of it was about those sitting back and saying, "Well, I earned the money and so it is mine," or "What's wrong with being successful?"

Still, one thing is certain. With the crop of non-caring neocons we have today, the age of doing anything in the name of another person is probably forever lost.

and you want to make this friend use his knowledge to help others. thank you mr. dictator.

[bathory]

Still, one thing is certain. With the crop of non-caring neocons we have today, the age of doing anything in the name of another person is probably forever lost.

Please learn the definition of what a neocon actually is.

Is it really that hard? It'll stop you from looking like an uninformed tool shooting off buzzwords to make your point sound legitimate.

[AztecInca]

Please learn the definition of what a neocon actually is.

Is it really that hard? It'll stop you from looking like an uninformed tool shooting off buzzwords to make your point sound legitimate.

Let's keep the discussion civil thanks bathory. You do indeed have a point but we dont need to get personal and take things off-topic.

[Siara]

I have a friend whose parents owned a large company and both were killed in an auto accident in 1957. He was the only son and inherited everything.

In 1958 he entered Harvard and as of 2006 (the last I heard of him) he was still studying at Harvard. He used the money to be a professional student and I have no idea how many degrees he holds but I have heard that it is impressive.

So here was this young millionare who used his money to study. Sounds like something one could justify, right? But today he has this vast knowledge and keeps it to himself. No one has benefitted from it and he does not seem to care if he ever uses it for a common good. It is his, after all, paid for with his money.

That is the attitude I see here from many. Rise to the top and find comfort in the belief that you have no responsibilities any anyone. And if you mention starving kids in Africa or those in need of any benefit domestically, they are the first to scream socialism.

Moreover, they are the ones who claim that this is the principle that brought greatness to the United States!

Greatness came to the United States men leaving the comfort of their plantations and estates to be leaders of a great revolution. It came from merchants loaning their ships to be converted into naval warships. It came from the wealthy placing all they had at risk to be part of a budding government.

None of it was about those sitting back and saying, "Well, I earned the money and so it is mine," or "What's wrong with being successful?"

Still, one thing is certain. With the crop of non-caring neocons we have today, the age of doing anything in the name of another person is probably forever lost.

APPLAUSE

I can't believe things have reached a point where I feel like I have to tread carefully when I say things like "civilized people don't leave the poor and disabled staggering in the streets". At first this viciously selfish segment of Republicanism grew out of response to hyper Political Correctness. The dialog was:

LEFTIE: How can you be so insensitive? I'm deeply offended on behalf of [lists every minority connection he has]

RIGHTY: Oh shut up with your self congratulatory sanctimony. **** you and **** the poor.

Unfortunately, the part of this message that has survived is "**** the poor". They actually think this is a mature American attitude. It's not.

[churchanddestroy]

APPLAUSE

I can't believe things have reached a point where I feel like I have to tread carefully when I say things like "civilized people don't leave the poor and disabled staggering in the streets". At first this viciously selfish segment of Republicanism grew out of response to hyper Political Correctness. The dialog was:

LEFTIE: How can you be so insensitive? I'm deeply offended on behalf of [lists every minority connection he has]

RIGHTY: Oh shut up with your self congratulatory sanctimony. **** you and **** the poor.

Unfortunately, the part of this message that has survived is "**** the poor". They actually think this is a mature American attitude. It's not.

Hey everyone, lets focus on false dichotomies and inaccurate stereotypes of political views instead of, you know, fixing the ****ing problems.

[Siara]

Hey everyone, lets focus on false dichotomies and inaccurate stereotypes of political views instead of, you know, fixing the ****ing problems.

The problem is that political views are a big part of the problem. In my estimation a segment of the population isn't going to get health care because big business folks are tweaking fears that are based on their politics (fears that shouldn't be an issue since the government is not forcing them to change their insurance). So how can you remove politics from the issue? You can't. Politics is the thing that distorts the data so that the public can't even see it.

I WISH you could remove politics from the issue. But politics is the weapon that's being used to protect the bosses in this situation. What you're saying is, "let's try to deal with why a mugging is occurring but let's ignore the fact that the mugger has a knife".

What we SHOULD be doing is reasoning, "Okay, it's obvious to everyone that our health care system is a train wreck in progress. Other countries have successful health care systems. Let's figure out why their systems work and if we find a common element let's consider doing the same thing".

But no, that can't happen. Because of political manipulation. "Let's remove the politics". Good thinking-- while we're being ridiculously idealistic lay down our arms and have a utopian world peace.

[Siara]

Hey everyone, lets focus on false dichotomies and inaccurate stereotypes of political views instead of, you know, fixing the ****ing problems.

The stereotypes are dead on when it comes to both political extremes. I focus on them because they are the thing that's standing in the way of analyzing the data.

[+susieice]

The stereotypes are dead on when it comes to both political extremes. I focus on them because they are the thing that's standing in the way of analyzing the data.

That's very true. Too many pull a party line and never the two shall meet. Going back to the rich, no I don't envy them. At least I know my children will take care of me instead of fighting over who gets what. Increasingly there are two classes in this country, the rich and the poor and unfortuately the middle class is rapidly falling into the have nots. Anyone from the northeast can tell you that the industrialized might of this country is gone. I know from my own area that the second largest producer of steel in the world is now a casino. I don't mind paying my share of the taxes, but I don't get the tax breaks that the upper 5% get. I also don't get the perks, so I think I have the right to see them pay their fair share without complaints.

Just wanted to add, welcome back Lt. Ripley. Good topic as usual.

Edited August 9, 2009 by susieice

[preacherman76]

So let me get this striaght, even though I pay between 40 to 50% of my income on a wide range of taxes, Im selfish for not wanting to pay more? You litteraly think im saying just say F the poor?? And even though every single thing our goverment touches becomes first broke, then in debt, through heavey coruption and waste, you think the answer is to hand 1/7th of our economy, the health care system, to them?? I dont think so. You want to fix the health care system? Figure out why we Americans pay $150 bucks for the same drugs canada pays $30 bucks for. There you will find the problem.

And the fact that this administration (and every administration before him) isnt even looking at those problems should tell you all you need to know about "goverment health care".

Edited August 9, 2009 by preacherman76

[AROCES]

I'm sorry, hang on. To make sure this absolutely crystal clear: your idea of America being great is a massive (and expensive) government program uniting the country in common purpose? Moreover, you're dismayed by the deindustrializing forces that gutted blue collar work in this country over the last four decades.

You sound surprisingly like a. . .liberal.

It is crystal clear and you are attempting to make it blurry. The Apollo mission is not a PERMANENT entitlement that once created becomes a tax thirsty monster that is out of control. It lead us to the future, men are pioneers and explorer.

You rather put all effort to stay foot with the rest who are contended where they are waiting for help.

Blue collar work in this country is being destroyed by the very organization that is sauppose to protect it, it's union.

[bathory]

I like how the intellectual midgets characterize this as a case of greedy people being greedy (only 'rightwingers' are greedy btw), when the reality is, its a case of people asking a government that consistently does a shoddy job with social services to kindly stop taking their hard earned dollars and do an adequate job with the money they already give.

[Startraveler]

And even though every single thing our goverment touches becomes first broke, then in debt, through heavey coruption and waste, you think the answer is to hand 1/7th of our economy, the health care system, to them??

How does the proposed plan "hand" the health care system to the government?

It is crystal clear and you are attempting to make it blurry. The Apollo mission is not a PERMANENT entitlement that once created becomes a tax thirsty monster that is out of control. It lead us to the future, men are pioneers and explorer.

So massive government spending on certain social goals is desirable. Thank you.

[AROCES]

So massive government spending on certain social goals is desirable. Thank you.

YUP, those that pulls us forward. Not those that pulls everyone down.

[KRS-One]

YUP, those that pulls us forward. Not those that pulls everyone down.

More early english education, perhaps.

Edited August 9, 2009 by KRS-One

[AROCES]

More early english education, perhaps.

Maybe, but not your kind of english education.

[Dr. D]

and you want to make this friend use his knowledge to help others. thank you mr. dictator.

How offensive to suggest that one person might feel the compassion to help another. Forgive me for even considering such a thought. I should remember that the three of you have a different opinion. You, Aroces and . . .

Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice.

Adolf Hitler

[Agent X]

YUP, those that pulls us forward. Not those that pulls everyone down.

Which is an entirely subjective opinion.

[AROCES]

Which is an entirely subjective opinion.

Or one can easily look back.

[AROCES]

How offensive to suggest that one person might feel the compassion to help another. Forgive me for even considering such a thought. I should remember that the three of you have a different opinion. You, Aroces and . . .

Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice.

Adolf Hitler

See.

If you dont give me what I THINK you should give me then you are Hitler.

[Dr. D]

See.

If you dont give me what I THINK you should give me then you are Hitler.

However you want it, Adolph.

[Dr. D]

The case it no that the rich are not giving anything, the case is the LEFT want to dictate what should be contributed.

They claim they are for the poor, but they want others to shoulder their good intentions. How convenient, I care and will help,, now you rich give me more of your damn money.

And that is a Democrat concept? Ronald Reagan cut the tax rate for the wealthiest people in America (as the GOP ususally does) from 70% to 38%. The great conservative idea was that these rich people would invest that money that they usually paid in taxes and booster the national economy. Guess what? The rich were also conservatives and they kept their money and the nation entered its worst recession since 1932.

When Reagan entered office, he inherited a national debt of $995 billion from Carter. At the end of Bush, Sr.'s term, it had increased to $4 trillion. Clinton reversed those policies and increased the tax on the wealthy and produced the longest continued span of economic growth in national history. He also gave Bush, Jr. a surplus after paying most of Reagan's debts.

George, Jr. quickly returned to Reaganomics and rewarded the top 1% income bracket with a $630 billion tax cut.

The only investment they made with that saved money was to give it back to George in his campaign fund to the tune of $200 million.

As usual, conservatives rewarded their friends and then put the debt on everyone else.

[AROCES]

And that is a Democrat concept? Ronald Reagan cut the tax rate for the wealthiest people in America (as the GOP ususally does) from 70% to 38%. The great conservative idea was that these rich people would invest that money that they usually paid in taxes and booster the national economy. Guess what? The rich were also conservatives and they kept their money and the nation entered its worst recession since 1932.

Kept their money where??? Whoever told you that rich has bank size vaults in their house with Billions got you fooled big time.

I tell you, you do sound like a communist rebel hiding in the mountain with little education.

do you want me to explain to you where the rich money goes to?

When Reagan entered office, he inherited a national debt of $995 billion from Carter. At the end of Bush, Sr.'s term, it had increased to $4 trillion. Clinton reversed those policies and increased the tax on the wealthy and produced the longest continued span of economic growth in national history. He also gave Bush, Jr. a surplus after paying most of Reagan's debts.

Reagan was battling a Democrat congress who wont give him the cut he wanted.

Clinton on the other hand went along with the Republican Congress Contract with america and lots of democrtas in congress then was not happy with Clinton.

As you mayb have learned NOW, congress has power as well. President dont just say this and that and it is done.

[Startraveler]

Clinton on the other hand went along with the Republican Congress Contract with america and lots of democrtas in congress then was not happy with Clinton.

Someday you'll have to start backing up the claims that you make with facts to support them. I'll repeat, verbatim, what I said to you in the other thread: The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 passed without a single Republican vote. That's the bill that raised taxes on the higher income brackets, prescribed enforcement mechanisms for discretionary spending limits for fiscal year 1996 through fiscal year 1998, and extended pay-as-you-go rules through fiscal year 1998 (1998 was the first year we had a budget surplus in three decades), all of which put us on firm fiscal footing.