Poll: Obama Seen as Greater Failure than Bush

[The Silver Thong]

Saddam did not only pay people to die but to target and kill innocent people, the U.S. didn't send people to die!

Bull Schitt !!!! The U.S. damn well did send people to die and you know that. Or is war a thing in your mind where only the boogy man gets killed. Of course the U.S. sent people to die and to deny that is an insult to those that were sent to there death for a BS cause. All American soldiers that have died in Iraq are suicides, planned suicides not by ones own thinking but there leaders. So maybe we should say that BS war that killed 4000+ Americans was murder.

Acid just posted a reply that I was not sure how to take but then it sank in and I get it. You however do not.

[acidhead]

I know this is not going to be a very popular thing to say but it is something that needs saying. One of the grave errors in international affairs is the ability to ignore the history and culture of a people of a different heritage and belief system and to evaluate it by the standards of our culture and our beliefs.

The concept of self sacrifice as portrayed by suicide bombers is historic and not exclusive to Arabs. The Jews used suicide attacks against the Romans, mainly the Zealots and Sicarii. If we want to be honest, a significant percentage of recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor sacrificed themselves to eliminate the enemy's stronghold. The WWII kamikaze cannot be ignored.

In the Moslem culture, children have a responsibility to honor and provide for their parents. When one becomes a suicide bomber, therefore, parents have not only lost a child but have lost much of the security for their futures. When Hussein sent checks to these families in honor of their "martyr children," it was translated by the Western World as sponsoring terrorism but within the Arab world, it was subsistence far more than a reward.

Which was right? Who can legitimately say?

I agree with that statement.

My statements are not very popular... doesn't stop me from expressing my opinion.

Indigenous people from all over the planet have been sacrificed and nearly if not wiped out everywhere western colonists have gone.

Thats a fact.... and it continues today under the umbrella of fighting The never-ending War on Terrorism.

_____________

Here is another fact....

Most people in the western civilization DO NOT take care of their parents when they get older.

That is the exact OPPOSITE of what most people in developing countries or indigenous people in those areas do.

Hell.. most people in the westernized world are born into this debt based economy and never fully comprehend that immediate family comes first before yourself.

The y2 generation has been conditioned to believe that they deserve everything that everybody else around you has.

I'm not blaming individuals for this... no... i'm stating the obvious truth that we live in a lala land full of destractions and fantasy.

[ExpandMyMind]

Its a fact that he gave money to suicide bomber famalies. and many people in Isreal died. like the bus attack by Izat Jarradat, the shop attack by Fuad Isma’il Ahmad al-Hurani, the Zion Square attack by Usama Muhammad Id Bahr and Nabil Mahmud Jamil Halbiyyah all recieved checks by Saddam

Iraqi Support for and Encouragement of Palestinian Terrorism

dr.d said it better than i ever could. i suggest you read and take in what he wrote.

[Caesar]

Bull Schitt !!!! The U.S. damn well did send people to die and you know that. Or is war a thing in your mind where only the boogy man gets killed. Of course the U.S. sent people to die and to deny that is an insult to those that were sent to there death for a BS cause. All American soldiers that have died in Iraq are suicides, planned suicides not by ones own thinking but there leaders. So maybe we should say that BS war that killed 4000+ Americans was murder.

Thats pure nonsense I was in the military and was sent to Kosovo are you saying I was sent to die? no solders are sent to die. solders that died in Iraq were not suicides. a suicide is when one kilss him or herself not when they die in a war zone by enamy solders/terrorists ied attacks. 4000+ Americans was murder... only in your warped world!

[acidhead]

Thats pure nonsense I was in the military and was sent to Kosovo are you saying I was sent to die? no solders are sent to die. solders that died in Iraq were not suicides. a suicide is when one kilss him or herself not when they die in a war zone by enamy solders/terrorists ied attacks. 4000+ Americans was murder... only in your warped world!

murder? is that what the military describes a combat related death on foreign soil?

I thought it was recorded as KIA or Killed by IED.... and are these dead soldiers families compensated for their family members military combat related death?

Still waiting for somebody, preferably in the military to answer this.

*********

Maybe Rush Limbaugh can answer:

The text below, which went into email circulation in April 2002, has been confirmed by Rush Limbaugh as an accurate transcription of a monologue he delivered on his radio show March 11, 2002.

I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the September 11th casualty and those who die serving the country in uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th. Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.

If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million. If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000, direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people that are getting an average of $1.185, million up to $4.7 million, are complaining that it's not enough.

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11th families are getting.

In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well. You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad.

********

..huh.... that was enlightening..... weird...

If its true.... CAN ANYBODY VERIFY THIS?.... than Saddam definitely paid better compensation packages than the American government

Edited August 15, 2009 by acidhead

[The Silver Thong]

Thats pure nonsense I was in the military and was sent to Kosovo are you saying I was sent to die? no solders are sent to die. solders that died in Iraq were not suicides. a suicide is when one kilss him or herself not when they die in a war zone by enamy solders/terrorists ied attacks. 4000+ Americans was murder... only in your warped world!

Wrong.

When you join the military and the govenment sends you to a BS war you better expect people to die. Your government new that Americans would die in Iraq or are you saying the U.S. government promised a nice clean war?

Your government murderd U.S. soldiers by sending them to a place they had no right to be in. Yes I call it murder. Or yes sucide for following such a BS pile of crap. The U.S. is slicing it's own throat for god sake.

[Caesar]

murder? is that what the military describes a combat related death on foreign soil?

I think by the context of the poster I was quoting, he was talking about the U.S. mudered the U.S. solders

I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the September 11th casualty and those who die serving the country in uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th. Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.

If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million. If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000, direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Who payed the victims of the 9/11 attacks? insurance companies, the government, and charitable groups

[Caesar]

Wrong.

When you join the military and the govenment sends you to a BS war you better expect people to die. Your government new that Americans would die in Iraq or are you saying the U.S. government promised a nice clean war?

People do die in wars but they don't send them to die. the U.S, was involved in many wars such as WWII the goal was to remove Hitler from power along with other goals but they were not sent to die.

Your government murderd U.S. soldiers by sending them to a place they had no right to be in. Yes I call it murder. Or yes sucide for following such a BS pile of crap. The U.S. is slicing it's own throat for god sake.

Well thats your opinion against mine, I think I already posted my thoughts on this.

[acidhead]

I think by the context of the poster I was quoting, he was talking about the U.S. mudered the U.S. solders

Who payed the victims of the 9/11 attacks? insurance companies, the government, and charitable groups

I was way off on the $300 000 figure...

found it on the RAND website: http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9087/index1.html

Killed or Seriously Injured Civilians.

The attacks killed 2,551 civilians (i.e., non-emergency-response personnel) and seriously injured another 215. The vast majority of these victims and their families sought compensation through the VCF. This group received a total of $8.7 billion in benefits, or an average of $3.1 million per recipient. Sixty-nine percent of the benefits came from the government, 23 percent from insurance, and 8 percent from charities.

Emergency Responders.

The attacks killed or seriously injured approximately 425 emergency responders. This group received a total of $1.9 billion in benefits, or about $1.1 million more on average than a civilian with similar economic loss. Most of these funds (about three-quarters) came from the government, and the remainder came from charities.

Businesses.

Businesses in New York City, and especially those in Lower Manhattan, suffered major property damage, disrupted operations, and loss of customers. Businesses received a total of $23.3 billion in compensation, about 75 percent of which came from insurance.

Other Categories.

Residents of Lower Manhattan, workers, those who suffered from emotional trauma, and those who were injured from exposure to smoke, dust, and debris released during the collapse and cleanup of the World Trade Center also received compensation. The benefits that could be quantified for these groups total approximately $3.5 billion, most of which came from government programs. Total compensation for mental health care and for respiratory injuries due to environmental exposure would be higher if the benefits paid by employer-provided health plans or employee-assistance plans could be quantified.

The distribution of these payments across groups caused some of those who were interviewed for this study to raise questions regarding equity. Because the VCF based its benefit amounts on projected lifetime earnings, award sizes were higher for those with higher projected lifetime incomes. Some victims’ family members wondered why the lives of those who made less money were less valued than those who made more. Other stakeholders wondered why the victims of the 9/11 attacks received awards that far exceeded those paid out after previous incidents, such as the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Interviewees did not dispute the tragic losses of those families whose loved ones died in the attacks, but some felt that a higher share of resources should have gone to other victim groups, such as workers and small busin

[Caesar]

I was way off on the $300 000 figure...

found it on the RAND website: http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9087/index1.html

Killed or Seriously Injured Civilians.

The attacks killed 2,551 civilians (i.e., non-emergency-response personnel) and seriously injured another 215. The vast majority of these victims and their families sought compensation through the VCF. This group received a total of $8.7 billion in benefits, or an average of $3.1 million per recipient. Sixty-nine percent of the benefits came from the government, 23 percent from insurance, and 8 percent from charities.

Emergency Responders.

The attacks killed or seriously injured approximately 425 emergency responders. This group received a total of $1.9 billion in benefits, or about $1.1 million more on average than a civilian with similar economic loss. Most of these funds (about three-quarters) came from the government, and the remainder came from charities.

Businesses.

Businesses in New York City, and especially those in Lower Manhattan, suffered major property damage, disrupted operations, and loss of customers. Businesses received a total of $23.3 billion in compensation, about 75 percent of which came from insurance.

Other Categories.

Residents of Lower Manhattan, workers, those who suffered from emotional trauma, and those who were injured from exposure to smoke, dust, and debris released during the collapse and cleanup of the World Trade Center also received compensation. The benefits that could be quantified for these groups total approximately $3.5 billion, most of which came from government programs. Total compensation for mental health care and for respiratory injuries due to environmental exposure would be higher if the benefits paid by employer-provided health plans or employee-assistance plans could be quantified.

The distribution of these payments across groups caused some of those who were interviewed for this study to raise questions regarding equity. Because the VCF based its benefit amounts on projected lifetime earnings, award sizes were higher for those with higher projected lifetime incomes. Some victims’ family members wondered why the lives of those who made less money were less valued than those who made more. Other stakeholders wondered why the victims of the 9/11 attacks received awards that far exceeded those paid out after previous incidents, such as the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Interviewees did not dispute the tragic losses of those families whose loved ones died in the attacks, but some felt that a higher share of resources should have gone to other victim groups, such as workers and small busin

I think Congress was right to have the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund and Bush was right to approve the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund bill, maybe we should question Kenneth Feinberg since it was his job for the payments?

[acidhead]

I think Congress was right to have the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund and Bush was right to approve the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund bill, maybe we should question Kenneth Feinberg since it was his job for the payments?

wow... they sure received a lot of money eh?... compared to the military compensation.... it doesn't even come close.

[Caesar]

wow... they sure received a lot of money eh?... compared to the military compensation.... it doesn't even come close.

Nope and I agree it wasn't fare then again your dealing with the U.S. Government.

[acidhead]

Nope and I agree it wasn't fare then again your dealing with the U.S. Government.

I'd like to see the huge corporations compensate soldiers for their service.... you know... the way they compensate their executives by means of bonuses.

These truly are the people benefiting from their over sea business deals.

They should be footing the bill.

The public and the soldiers who die for their deals should know who exactly they are fighting for.

They should be investigated more thoroughly as to who and exactly who the players are they are dealing with.

Transparent over sea business deals would help tremendously.

They are the people reaping the massive amount of money that goes into the deals.

Back in the western world we simply consume the products they dealt.

[The Silver Thong]

People do die in wars but they don't send them to die. the U.S, was involved in many wars such as WWII the goal was to remove Hitler from power along with other goals but they were not sent to die.

Well thats your opinion against mine, I think I already posted my thoughts on this.

I'll make sure my Grandfather thanks you for showing up

[Startraveler]

Yeah hindsight is always 20/20. I’ve been reading Startravelers post to gain a better insight of the particulars of the healthcare reform plan being put forth now. Even though I feel it’s not a good time to do so, even with reassurances that the healthcare reform proposal doesn’t add new debt to the already soaring federal deficit.

I think President Obama’s intentions are good, but he has realize that he’s new and folks need to get used to him being in “the chair” and also allow more time for the economy to stabilize first before doing anything that gives the outward appearance of adding more government programs.

There are some other things going on in this thread but I want to hit this point. Stardrive, can you clarify whether you're worried about the politics of this (i.e. people being less receptive to this idea right now) or the actual policy/economic impacts of passing this plan during this recession? I ask because many of the key provisions don't really start going into effect until 2013--the changes the bill makes aren't instantaneous.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Startraveler

[Dredimus]

Are those groups part of the military ? aka Blackwater and what do they do really as I could post some pretty damning things about them. Yes Blackwater is a terrorist group just one you happen to agree with sponsored by guess who?

I worked for blackwater for 2 years after I got out of the military... are you calling me a terrorist? Don't let the actions of a few cloud your judgment. I really do not appreciate that remark. ALOT of the blackwater guys are former military. Yes, they had issues with some young guns and unstable personnel, but like I said, don't let the actions of a few make you decide on all of us... I cant even type straight right now... your little remark has pretty much sickened me...

[acidhead]

I worked for blackwater for 2 years after I got out of the military... are you calling me a terrorist? Don't let the actions of a few cloud your judgment. I really do not appreciate that remark. ALOT of the blackwater guys are former military. Yes, they had issues with some young guns and unstable personnel, but like I said, don't let the actions of a few make you decide on all of us... I cant even type straight right now... your little remark has pretty much sickened me...

Let me get this straight.... you are former military.. former Blackwater.. AND a sole internet post is pushing you over the edge to the point you cannot type straight?

you serious?

[Dredimus]

Let me get this straight.... you are former military.. former Blackwater.. AND a sole internet post is pushing you over the edge to the point you cannot type straight?

you serious?

You don't know where my edge is, for starters. And secondly, I dont recall anyone calling you a terrorist. I have given most of my life to this country, as has most of my family. I'll be damned if some one is going to call me a terrorist for what I have done.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Dredimus

[acidhead]

You don't know where my edge is, for starters. And secondly, I dont recall anyone calling you a terrorist. I have given most of my life to this country, as has most of my family. I'll be damned if some one is going to call me a terrorist for what I have done.

What have you done?

[Dredimus]

What have you done?

Which MOS do you wanna hear about? 11b? 21b? 68w? Ive given my life to this country since I was 17 years old, I argued with my parents every day until I got a signature. 127 Jumps, Sapper Qualified and Ranger Qualified. Any specifics you would like to know about? Send me a message with your question.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Dredimus

[Lt_Ripley]

You don't know where my edge is, for starters. And secondly, I dont recall anyone calling you a terrorist. I have given most of my life to this country, as has most of my family. I'll be damned if some one is going to call me a terrorist for what I have done.

why aren't I buying this ? oh yeah !!! it's the internet !!

Edited August 16, 2009 by Lt_Ripley

[Dredimus]

why aren't I buying this ? oh yeah !!! it's the internet !!

I have no need for you to "buy" it Ripley. I don't have to prove myself to any one here.

[acidhead]

I worked for blackwater for 2 years after I got out of the military... are you calling me a terrorist? Don't let the actions of a few cloud your judgment. I really do not appreciate that remark. ALOT of the blackwater guys are former military. Yes, they had issues with some young guns and unstable personnel, but like I said, don't let the actions of a few make you decide on all of us... I cant even type straight right now... your little remark has pretty much sickened me...

Just curious..

What kind of issues are you familiar with that Blackwater had with some young guns and unstable personnel?

[Dredimus]

Just curious..

What kind of issues are you familiar with that Blackwater had with some young guns and unstable personnel?

I had come across alot of guys that were coming out of the physical security that were under the impression they were rambo, those that would pull the trigger without thinking on it or even being ordered. I do think BlackWater International should have set down a more strict guideline as far as mentally testing these young men. Most of us that had come from different segments of the government were already familiar with the surroundings because we had been there before, but these other guys were regular joes (mostly young guys that had been working in the physical security field for companies such as Wackenhut or Pinkerton) who thought that they were nothing but bad *** simply because they had a weapon in their hand. These types cause trouble in situations that they arent comfortable in. They rarely ask questions (because they know it all of course) and they hardly ever heed the warnings of those that have been around the block a time or 3.

[Caesar]

why aren't I buying this ? oh yeah !!! it's the internet !!

Hey you didn't have to use my picture! thanks Lt Ripley!