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AROCES

Poll: Obama Seen as Greater Failure than Bush

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AROCES
How would they know?

When the agents arrest you for lovers quarrrel on the phone or something.

It is pretty clear, no court order is needed when suspected terrorist are believe to be plotting an attack.

What you are so worried about basically is nonsense, you really think there are enough agents to randomly listen to 100 million people on the phone each day? :blink:

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AROCES
Our individual liberties are the most sacred rights we have. The Patriot Act, whether well intended or not, violated those sacred rights.

The only ones who will benefit from what you are fighting for are criminals and terrorist. They are the ones who actually wouild support your cause if they can openly.

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Dr. D
When the agents arrest you for lovers quarrrel on the phone or something.

It is pretty clear, no court order is needed when suspected terrorist are believe to be plotting an attack.

What you are so worried about basically is nonsense, you really think there are enough agents to randomly listen to 100 million people on the phone each day? :blink:

And everyone who had their phones tapped were arrested? Phone calls are monitored electronically, only in high profile cases are they monitored by individual agents and when monitored electronically, key words trigger recording. If you mention a key word in a common conversation yes, your phone could be compromised.

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WoIverine
A new CNN poll shows that more Americans consider the first six months of President Barack Obama's administration worse than the same time period of his predecessor, former President George Bush.

When asked whether they thought the first six months of Obama's tenure in office has been a success or a failure, 37 percent responding to the poll released Friday said they believe it was a failure. After Bush's first six months in office, a similar CNN poll from August of 2001 showed only 32 percent considered it to be a failure.

Those who said the first half year of the Bush administration was a success polled at 57 percent in 2001, while Obama polled at 51 percent.

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_f.../07/245354.html

That is actually kind of sad considering the mass of democrats now serving under Obama. You'd think he'd be able to get things done faster. However, it has only been 6 months, so I can see either side of it. The town hall meetings hosted by some of his cronies don't currently seem to be generating much positive publicity for his administration either.

Edited by SpiderCyde

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churchanddestroy
The only ones who will benefit from what you are fighting for are criminals and terrorist. They are the ones who actually wouild support your cause if they can openly.

That is completely false! All of America benefits because our rights are protected.

Hell, I'm very conservative, as is my father before me, and we both agree that the Patriot act is the most asinine and blatant undermining of individual liberties since the income tax. You must be completely off your rocker to approve of the Patriot act. Our challenge as Americans is to fight the good fight while remembering that we have rights to uphold while we fight. Its a challenge, but a challenge we must rise to none the less. Failure to do so makes us no better than the oppressive regimes and states we march against.

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Pseudo Intellectual
Failure to do so makes us no better than the oppressive regimes and states we march against.

Really? Are you sure? The PATRIOT Act makes us no better than al-Qaeda?

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Mr  Honeybadger
That is completely false! All of America benefits because our rights are protected.

Hell, I'm very conservative, as is my father before me, and we both agree that the Patriot act is the most asinine and blatant undermining of individual liberties since the income tax. You must be completely off your rocker to approve of the Patriot act. Our challenge as Americans is to fight the good fight while remembering that we have rights to uphold while we fight. Its a challenge, but a challenge we must rise to none the less. Failure to do so makes us no better than the oppressive regimes and states we march against.

Agree 100 %. But seeing as how both the Democrats and Republicans now support the Patriot Act ( the Dems only now do because Obama and Pelosi rule ), the Patriot Act might sadly may be here for good.

Talk about thumbing your nose at the Constitution. The Patriot Act does just that.

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The Silver Thong
Really? Are you sure? The PATRIOT Act makes us no better than al-Qaeda?

That is not what he ment and you know that. The patriot act was an attack on the American constitution by Americans. So in a way it is worse than al-qaeda as they made America betray itself.

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WoIverine
That is not what he ment and you know that. The patriot act was an attack on the American constitution by Americans. So in a way it is worse than al-qaeda as they made America betray itself.

I totally agree...it seems like the Constitution has been under fire ever since. Grrr.

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AROCES
And everyone who had their phones tapped were arrested? Phone calls are monitored electronically, only in high profile cases are they monitored by individual agents and when monitored electronically, key words trigger recording. If you mention a key word in a common conversation yes, your phone could be compromised.

Wrong, how many of the 100 million on the phone would say something that may consist of any terrorist language?

If you are the fighting terrorist isn't just common sense to just target certain individuals to wire tap AFTER you have established a reason to?

I'd fire anyone who would set a alarm for someone merely uttered the name of Bin Laden on the phone.

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AROCES
That is completely false! All of America benefits because our rights are protected.

Hell, I'm very conservative, as is my father before me, and we both agree that the Patriot act is the most asinine and blatant undermining of individual liberties since the income tax. You must be completely off your rocker to approve of the Patriot act. Our challenge as Americans is to fight the good fight while remembering that we have rights to uphold while we fight. Its a challenge, but a challenge we must rise to none the less. Failure to do so makes us no better than the oppressive regimes and states we march against.

I still travel and go where I want to, say what I want to, choose the kind of life I want and the career I want, I never notice any agents following me in the mall or anywhere, call friends and relative across the oceans, have visitors come here from other countries.

I say chill out, the Patriot Act really is not interested in taking your freedom away from you, they got more important things to worry about like another 9/11.

Edited by AROCES

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AROCES
That is not what he ment and you know that. The patriot act was an attack on the American constitution by Americans. So in a way it is worse than al-qaeda as they made America betray itself.

Show us then more than 3,000 American body bags beacuse of Patriot Acts.

Show us then proof of anyone's liberty been denied because of Patriot Act.

The thing is you rather see another 9/11, just beacsue you think some agent will listen to you on the phone.

Unless, you into something that will give those agents a reason to wiretap you.

Edited by AROCES

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Pseudo Intellectual

I believe the reason you oppose the Patriot Act is because you hate America and wish it ill.

There. I said it. Feel free to flame me to hell for 10 pages.

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Dr. D
Wrong, how many of the 100 million on the phone would say something that may consist of any terrorist language?

If you are the fighting terrorist isn't just common sense to just target certain individuals to wire tap AFTER you have established a reason to?

I'd fire anyone who would set a alarm for someone merely uttered the name of Bin Laden on the phone.

Roger Triburn, former NSA agent, published the list of trigger words that initiate eavesdropping on a private telephone. "Rewson, SAFE, Waihopai, INFOSEC, ASPIC, MI6, Information Security, SAI, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Privacy, Information Terrorism, Terrorism Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive Information, Offensive Information Warfare, The Artful Dodger, NAIA,SAPM, ASU, ASTS, National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, SAO, Reno, Compsec, JICS, Computer Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, RSP, ISS, JDF, Ermes, Passwords, NAAP, DefCon V, RSO, Hackers, Encryption, ASWS, CUN, CISU, CUSI, M.A.R.E., MARE, UFO, IFO, Pacini, Angela, Espionage,USDOJ, NSA, CIA,S/Key, SSL, FBI, Secert Service, USSS, Defcon, Military, WhiteHouse,Undercover, NCCS, Mayfly, PGP, SALDV, PEM, resta, RSA,Perl-RSA, MSNBC, bet,AOL TOS, CIS, CBOT, AIMSX, STARLAN, 3B2, BITNET, SAMU, COSMOS, DATTA, Furbys, E911, FCIC, HTCIA, IACIS, UT/RUS, JANET, ram, JICC, ReMOB, LEETAC, UTU, VNET, BRLO, SADCC, NSLEP, SACLANTCEN, FALN, 877,NAVELEXSYSSECENGCEN,BZ, CANSLO, CBNRC, CIDA, JAVA, rsta, Active X, Compsec 97,RENS, LLC, DERA,JIC, rip, rb, Wu, RDI, Mavricks, BIOL, Meta-hackers, ^?, SADT,Steve Case, Tools, RECCEX, Telex, Aldergrove, OTAN, monarchist, NMIC,NIOG, IDB, MID/KL,NADIS, NMI, SEIDM, BNC, CNCIS, STEEPLEBUSH, RG, BSS, DDIS, mixmaster, BCCI,BRGE, Europol, SARL, Military Intelligence, JICA, scully, recondo,Flame,Infowar, FRU, Bubba, Freeh, Archives, ISADC, CISSP, Sundevil,jack,Investigation, JOTS, ISACA, NCSA, ASVC, spook words, RRF,1071, Bugs Bunny, Verisign, Secure, ASIO, Lebed, ICE, NRO, Lexis-Nexis, NSCT,SCIF, FLiR, JIC, bce, Lacrosse, Flashbangs, HRT, IRA, EODG, DIA, USCOI, CID,BOP, FINCEN, FLETC, NIJ, ACC, AFSPC, BMDO, site, SASSTIXS, NAVWAN, NRL, RL, NAVWCWPNS, NSWC, USAFA, AHPCRC, ARPA, SARD, LABLINK, USACIL,SAPT, USCG, NRC, ~, O, NSA/CSS, CDC, DOE, SAAM, FMS, HPCC, NTIS, SEL,USCODE, CISE, SIRC, CIM, ISN, DJC, LLNL, bemd, SGC, UNCPCJ, CFC, SABENA, DREO, CDA,SADRS, DRA, SHAPE, bird dog, SACLANT, BECCA, DCJFTF, HALO, SC, TA SAS, Lander, GSM, T Branch, AST, SAMCOMM, HAHO, FKS, 868, GCHQ, DITSA, SORT,AMEMB, NSG, HIC, EDI, benelux, SAS, SBS, SAW, UDT, EODC, GOE, DOE, SAMF, GEO, JRB, 3P-HV, Masuda, Forte, AT, GIGN, Exon Shell, radint, MB, CQB, TECS, CONUS, CTU, RCMP, GRU,SASR,NZSAS, GSG-9, 22nd SAS, GEOS, EADA, SART, BBE, STEP, Echelon, Dictionary,MD2, MD4, MDA, diwn, 747, ASIC, 777, RDI, 767, MI5, 737, MI6,757, Kh-11, EODN, SHS, ^X, Shayet-13, SADMS, Spetznaz, Recce, 707, CIO, NOCS, Halcon, NSS, Duress, RAID, Uziel, wojo, Psyops, SASCOM, grom, NSIRL,D-11, DF, ZARK, SERT, VIP, ARC, S.E.T. 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Meade, SEAL Team 6, Honduras ,PLO, NSA, terrorist, Ft. Meade, strategic, supercomputer, Honduras, BATF, Treasury,class struggle, smuggle, M55 M51, Physical Security Division, Room 2A0120, OPS, 2A, 688-6911(B),963-3371(s)., Security Awareness Division, (M56), Field Security Division, (M52), Al Amn al-Askari, Supreme Assembly of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, (SAIRI), Binnenlandse, Veiligheidsdienst, Komitet, Gosudarstvennoi, Bezopasnosti, Federalnaia, sluzhba, besopasnosti, GCHQ, MI5, Kill the president."

Supposedly, the same program searches e-mail messages for trigger words so I will probably be getting a visit soon.

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AROCES
Agree 100 %. But seeing as how both the Democrats and Republicans now support the Patriot Act ( the Dems only now do because Obama and Pelosi rule ), the Patriot Act might sadly may be here for good.

Talk about thumbing your nose at the Constitution. The Patriot Act does just that.

The Democrats support it now since from the beginning when it was formed the Bush Administration made sure everything is legal and does not have to be shut down by any judges or lawyer. Why do you think there is an Attorney General?

Now many are wondering why the Democrats went along with it, it is because from the start they know everything is within the law but election is election so they were saying it's illegal and blah blah blah. After the election the Democrats then said, :P

Edited by AROCES

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AROCES
Roger Triburn, former NSA agent, published the list of trigger words that initiate eavesdropping on a private telephone. "Rewson, SAFE, Waihopai, INFOSEC, ASPIC, MI6, Information Security, SAI, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Privacy, Information Terrorism, Terrorism Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive Information, Offensive Information Warfare, The Artful Dodger, NAIA,SAPM, ASU, ASTS, National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, SAO, Reno, Compsec, JICS, Computer Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, RSP, ISS, JDF,

Supposedly, the same program searches e-mail messages for trigger words so I will probably be getting a visit soon.

Precisely my point, thousand would utter those words everyday.

Now do you have the manpower to check it all?????? Dont tell me its the computer for at the end a human being needs to look at them.

Edited by AROCES

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The Silver Thong
Show us then more than 3,000 American body bags beacuse of Patriot Acts.

Show us then proof of anyone's liberty been denied because of Patriot Act.

The thing is you rather see another 9/11, just beacsue you think some agent will listen to you on the phone.

Unless, you into something that will give those agents a reason to wiretap you.

Hey man I thought you cared about the constitution.............. Oh thats right it's just a piece of paper.

Your a **EDIT** Aroces you to Pseudo Intellectual... get a grip guys your looking like a bunch of scared old ladies trying to cross the street. Your paranoia is founded to an extent due to 9/11 but lets keep it real. As far as saying I want harm to come to the U.S. You couldn't be more wrong. Now put down your **EDIT** and the paranoia might leave ya alone.

Funny but it seems that the ones hating the US are you two, go figure :hmm:

**Tone it down, Thong.**

Edited by aquatus1
Inflamatory

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Dr. D
Precisely my point, thousand would utter those words everyday.

Now do you have the manpower to check it all?????? Dont tell me its the computer for at the end a human being needs to look at them.

Again, it is not done with manpower . . . . it is a program entered into telecommunications that trigger computers to record.

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Pseudo Intellectual

You're calling me paranoid? You're the one who's saying the US government wants to spy on every American.

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AROCES
Hey man I thought you cared about the constitution.............. Oh thats right it's just a piece of paper.

You a dolt Aroces you to Pseudo Intellectual... get a grip guys your looking like a bunch of scared old ladies trying to cross the street. Your paranoia is founded to an extent due to 9/11 but lets keep it real. As far as saying I want harm to come to the U.S. You couldn't be more wrong. Now put down your crack pipes and the paranoia might leave ya alone.

Funny but it seems that the ones hating the US are you two, go figure :hmm:

Nope, we are merely figthting back against those who wants to destroy us.

While folks like you are more concern about the boogey man and when another bomb blows up, you simply go, opppss!

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AROCES
Again, it is not done with manpower . . . . it is a program entered into telecommunications that trigger computers to record.

And what do you do with those thousand and thousand of triggers? See, at the end someone breathing have to look at it, right?

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thebluevalentine

I really don't think this is fair to Obama. Nothing happened in Bush's first 6 months that would indicate his true legacy. Why should we only be giving the new president, who's dealing with all the fallout among other things, six months to make or break his whole four-year term? It's completely unrealistic.

I think that this is potentially America getting too impatient. "Yes we can" has become, "We're trying, but you have to give us some time" and nobody wants to wait for that. Not only that, but this issue with Health Care - people are saying that if he doesn't get it approved, if he doesn't stick it, then his whole term will be nothing, because everyone will remember him as just another president. This is totally untrue.

I don't know, those are my thoughts.

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AROCES
I really don't think this is fair to Obama. Nothing happened in Bush's first 6 months that would indicate his true legacy. Why should we only be giving the new president, who's dealing with all the fallout among other things, six months to make or break his whole four-year term? It's completely unrealistic.

I think that this is potentially America getting too impatient. "Yes we can" has become, "We're trying, but you have to give us some time" and nobody wants to wait for that. Not only that, but this issue with Health Care - people are saying that if he doesn't get it approved, if he doesn't stick it, then his whole term will be nothing, because everyone will remember him as just another president. This is totally untrue.

I don't know, those are my thoughts.

Bush went thru the same thing, just part of tthe game I guess.

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Migzilla

I happen to like Obama, since he's our president. However, it was pretty clear that he had socialist tendencies before he was even elected. He wanted to change America, and that's exactly what he's doing.

That's why I didn't vote for him. Still, I think we would complain about any leader.

Migzilla

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Cradle of Fish
I happen to like Obama, since he's our president. However, it was pretty clear that he had socialist tendencies before he was even elected. He wanted to change America, and that's exactly what he's doing.

That's why I didn't vote for him. Still, I think we would complain about any leader.

Migzilla

Why do you think you elect a president exactly?

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