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AROCES

Poll: Obama Seen as Greater Failure than Bush

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Migzilla
Why do you think you elect a president exactly?

Given that many of his views seemed socialistic during the election, it seems (of course, it's an assumption) that phrases like "changing America" should raise an eyebrow (and it did for many people). I'm just pointing out that he's been clear on that fact that he wants to implement radical changes in America since the election, and that's what he's doing.

No complaints here. I just think that if people weren't so busy hating Bush, they may have thought twice about voting for Obama.

I'll save my complaints and/or compliments for when his term ends.

Migzilla

Edited by Migzilla

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Migzilla
Why do you think you elect a president exactly?

I don't think I answered your question. I guess I'm just suprised to hear people bash Bush, vote for someone who resembles a Socialist, and then complain about the job he's doing.

It just makes me wonder why people voted for him in the first place. I guess what people really wanted was someone who was as unlike Bush as possible.

Migzilla

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Drego

Migzilla -

I don't claim to have a lot of economic knowledge, nor do I fully understand the current financial crisis, but could you please explain to me one thing: What is so terrible about Socialism?

I'm not a socialist any more than I am a capitalist, but I would really like to understand why, in some people's minds, the word 'Socialism' is synonymous with 'Anti-American...'

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Pseudo Intellectual

I'll let Churchill explain:

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

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DieChecker
The Congressional Budget Office has projected that the policies laid out in 0bama's first budget would require an additional $9 trillion in borrowing over the next decade.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-b...apitol-briefing

wapoobamabudget1.jpg

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-d...it-in-pictures/

WHO is the greater monster?

Edited by DieChecker

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Mr  Honeybadger

Socialism totally kills personal drive and innovation. If someone chooses to bust their butt through multiple years of schooling to become a doctor, then they should be rewarded by the opportunity to make alot more money than someone who would rather take an easier path in life. Plus it's the epitome of a nanny-state government.

Socialism is a totally unachievable fantasy because not everyone is created equal. The over achieving to the lazy. And everyone in between.

It's the over achieving capitalists who are willing to take big risks that have been the innovators in our society. Certainly not the government.

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WoIverine
Supposedly, the same program searches e-mail messages for trigger words so I will probably be getting a visit soon.

Where did you find this? It's very interesting, I noticed one word in general that stands out.

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Drego
I'll let Churchill explain:

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

:yes: Interesting quote, though, that sounds more like communism than socialism, to me.

Edited by Drego

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Cradle of Fish
Socialism totally kills personal drive and innovation. If someone chooses to bust their butt through multiple years of schooling to become a doctor, then they should be rewarded by the opportunity to make alot more money than someone who would rather take an easier path in life. Plus it's the epitome of a nanny-state government.

That's not socialism, that's communism.

It's the over achieving capitalists who are willing to take big risks that have been the innovators in our society. Certainly not the government.

I know, how dare they try to tear down capitalist pioneers such as Lucky Luciano, John Gotti and Bernie Madoff.

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Caesar
I happen to like Obama, since he's our president. However, it was pretty clear that he had socialist tendencies before he was even elected. He wanted to change America, and that's exactly what he's doing.

That's why I didn't vote for him. Still, I think we would complain about any leader.

Migzilla

I think the media really covered him much better then many other presidents. I didn't see anything critical on him and I still don't. unless its Fox News. they give him so much free air time and so many members of the media have joined his administration.

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Caesar
I know, how dare they try to tear down capitalist pioneers such as Lucky Luciano, John Gotti and Bernie Madoff.

I think the poster ment legal pioneers ;)

The American people have to pay usury on their own money. not even the Mafia could have dreamed up a bigger scam.

Edited by Caesar

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Drego
Socialism totally kills personal drive and innovation. If someone chooses to bust their butt through multiple years of schooling to become a doctor, then they should be rewarded by the opportunity to make alot more money than someone who would rather take an easier path in life. Plus it's the epitome of a nanny-state government.

Socialism is a totally unachievable fantasy because not everyone is created equal. The over achieving to the lazy. And everyone in between.

It's the over achieving capitalists who are willing to take big risks that have been the innovators in our society. Certainly not the government.

Again, that sounds more like communism, but I agree. That kind of society is not one in which I would want to live. However, I believe Socialism would work in some areas of society.

I've had it described to me in a post in another forum and after reading that one post, I felt more educated on socialism than ever before (not that that says a lot.)

Anyway, here are some parts of that post:

The predominant principle of socialism is that a worker owns his own labor. Whereas the opposite, capitalism, is where a capitalist will pay you X amount per hour for your labor. True socialism would mean as a contributor to any given work, you would want a % of the profits rather than a fixed wage.

So socialism is all about the people, rather than the individual. Unfortunaetly in both systems control is centralised, and that's where the corruption sets in.

Each system has it's merits and flaws. But these flaws are pretty much all related to abuse in govt.

Currently we have a mixed system. Where you see lobbyists and back handers controlling govt, thats the weakness of capitalism. Where you see people living off social services, thats the weakness of socialism.

...

Communism is extreme socialism, just as fascism is extreme capitalism.

Ulitmately we are in a mixed society, but it leans a little too far to the right, mostly due to unfounded slandering of Social efforts, and intervention of the free markets...

Socialism would work if the govt limited it to basic human rights that we all need, and capitalism would work if the govt just set out laws to stop corps infringing/profitting on basic human rights.... and stopped trying to manipulate markets artificially.

It's a yin-yang situation, we need balance, not absolutes in either direction.

Edited by Drego

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SRCivic98
Ok, again, to be fair to both sides:

1. We are just talking about the first six months, not two entire presidential terms.

and

2. The tasks at hand that Obama is facing right now are a completely different monster than what Bush faced 8 years ago.

So lets all go back to our respective corners, and wait patiently like adults. If Obama screws up, fine, there is another election in 3 and a half years. If he doesn't, good for him. Whether Republican or Democrat, and I don't care which, I would be very happy to see a politician keep his promises as best he or she can.

that pretty much hits the nail directly on the head. It doesn't matter which side of politics you're on, just so long as you stop acting like all the rest and actually take care of something that you promise to do or at least do something to help your fellow man / woman / child out of the dumps for your own reasons other than just for the sake of elections or popularity. and like you also said, the poll is only talking about THE FIRST SIX MONTHS!!!! So don't think that the next 3 1/2 years are going to be the same or better! Just sit back and get ready for the worse so when it happens you'll be ready and if it don't then at least you know you've got the things you needed when you need them. But here's a little indication about where we're headed. National Health Care was introduced during the 1920's and 1930's as well...then came the Great Depression which we're heading into now. two, taxes here on states sales tax went up to eight cents on every dollar and everyone in this local counties are almost completely unemployed! AGAIN I SAID ALMOST. Three - the papers here and the people are all hearing that taxes on gasoline is going to be raised by the state and the federal government. Four - (More information on this would be great) The federal government is going to try and pass a bill called the Performace Tax Act. Which will make it possible to tax the radio stations for all the songs they play, how long they stay on air, and even tax the singers local and celebrities for every song they put out or have played on the radio a certain amount of time. So yeah you can take your "we live with such a great government" and shove it!

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InHuman

Stay classy Acroces.

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Dr. D
Precisely my point, thousand would utter those words everyday.

Now do you have the manpower to check it all?????? Dont tell me its the computer for at the end a human being needs to look at them.

You said yourself that there would be very few needing human attention but that doesn't mean that thousands more telephones would be compromised to discover that few.

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The Silver Thong
Nope, we are merely figthting back against those who wants to destroy us.

While folks like you are more concern about the boogey man and when another bomb blows up, you simply go, opppss!

So you want to spend billions of dollars looking under rocks, saying peak a boo. You want fear to rule what you have? A true American would not confine other Americans to pursue a magic man and change the constitution in such a pursuit.

If you fear being blown up and have to look over your shoulder ever 10 seconds because Bush said so than you have lost. You Lost and America lost as the Bush doctrine has said so and wiped his butt with you constitution.

You want to be an American and stand up, than do so as I see you as a weak little man that needs weapons on bad foreign policy and the destruction of your beliefs to enforced bad foreign policy.

If you want to become a country such that rejects the world and feel you have all the right to do so, MOVE as the U.S. can not do that. You want a nation that follows one set of rules, that will never happen. Your closed mind will be your down fall as you want yesterday but as we all know that can't happen.

There are many I want to comment on but I would hate to flood UM with rationality.

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InHuman

So sadly it seems there are people STUPID and SCARED enough to listen to lunatics like Palin.

There was an angry dad on fox awhile ago, Mike Sola (?).. he son has cerebral palsy and was struggling with cancer I believe..

Anways, this man is adment that if the public option goes through his son and people like him (disabled, old) won't get proper care. he says the plan is going to FORCE death upon americans.

He also threatended someone who (alledgedly) called his house in the middle of the night to retaliate for when Mike yelled (also on camera) at a townhall about how his son wasn't going to get care.

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AROCES
Stay classy Acroces.

You mean be like you? :huh:

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InHuman
You mean be like you? :huh:

Sorry, I'm not ready to be a father figure.

To much responsibility in shaping the minds of angry irrational children.

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AROCES
You said yourself that there would be very few needing human attention but that doesn't mean that thousands more telephones would be compromised to discover that few.

A few, so why listen to thousands and thousands. You are merely making this all up.

Those doing the job will not waste their time as you insist they are doing, once you established enough reason then you use the wire tap when neccessary.

You dont use the wire tap to search for terrorist, you use it as a tool once you established reason to do so.

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AROCES
Sorry, I'm not ready to be a father figure.

To much responsibility in shaping the minds of angry irrational children.

I can tell you do spend much of your time with children.

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InHuman
I can tell you do spend much of your time with children.

You're working hard on that class I loaned ya.

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AROCES
So you want to spend billions of dollars looking under rocks, saying peak a boo. You want fear to rule what you have? A true American would not confine other Americans to pursue a magic man and change the constitution in such a pursuit.

See, that is what the left made you believe. An idiotic way of protecting yourself by looking under every rock and wasting time and effort instead of just pin pointing the unusual rocks.

If you fear being blown up and have to look over your shoulder ever 10 seconds because Bush said so than you have lost. You Lost and America lost as the Bush doctrine has said so and wiped his butt with you constitution.

You folks had it your way for years that led to 9/11, quite clear the pretend, downplay or assume the terrorist will not strike again did not happen.

You want to be an American and stand up, than do so as I see you as a weak little man that needs weapons on bad foreign policy and the destruction of your beliefs to enforced bad foreign policy.

If you want to become a country such that rejects the world and feel you have all the right to do so, MOVE as the U.S. can not do that. You want a nation that follows one set of rules, that will never happen. Your closed mind will be your down fall as you want yesterday but as we all know that can't happen.

There are many I want to comment on but I would hate to flood UM with rationality.

when the left, socialist or terrorist are annoyed then it is a good policy

Edited by AROCES

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AROCES
You're working hard on that class I loaned ya.

Feel free to get credit for yourself whatever, for no one else will do it for you..

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The Silver Thong
A few, so why listen to thousands and thousands. You are merely making this all up.

Those doing the job will not waste their time as you insist they are doing, once you established enough reason then you use the wire tap when neccessary.

You dont use the wire tap to search for terrorist, you use it as a tool once you established reason to do so.

If one wire tape and I mean one wire tape were to stop a 9/11 event then I would be for it. However, breaching your constitution to get that one wire tape that tips you off to another 9/11 and it's prevention happens than cool and good for the patriot act. However the patriot act was built out of fear and if you so choose to live in fear so be it. The rest should not. The war on terror was and is a joke.

The patriot act is nothing more than trying to prevent a hurricane, impossible. You welcome a bill that takes away liberties in case of a hurricane? How do you prevent that? Prevention is madatory but paranoia, nope don't want to live that way.

InHuman.... I hope they read your post and mine. You have an insight that truly inspires what I think of the youth and I commend you on that.

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