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The Infidel Guy

Your reasons for being Religious/Atheist etc?

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IamsSon

I believe this universe was created by and maintained through the will of a being so powerful and creative that whether he is or not in reality omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient he is as far as we're able to comprehend. I believe this being has a purpose for the universe(s) he created and that for his own reasons he has chosen to take an intimate interest in the lives of humanity. I do not consider myself religious, I consider myself to be spiritual.

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Spankster
I believe this universe was created by and maintained through the will of a being so powerful and creative that whether he is or not in reality omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient he is as far as we're able to comprehend. I believe this being has a purpose for the universe(s) he created and that for his own reasons he has chosen to take an intimate interest in the lives of humanity. I do not consider myself religious, I consider myself to be spiritual.

Why do you believe this IamsSon ? What made you draw that conclusion ?

And what possible purposes could their be to create the universe ? (Im not saying you know, but i cant even think of an example "purpose" that would give context to the point, what kind of purpos, or purposes would you propose may be likely?)

And if your not religious why the sig ? LOL, am i missing a joke ?

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Emma_Acid
In addition, with my background in software design, I find myself drawn to the idea that the Universe is merely a computer simulation.

Read Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument?

"The Simulation Argument is perhaps the first interesting argument for the existence of a Creator in 2000 years."

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Spankster
Read Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument?

"The Simulation Argument is perhaps the first interesting argument for the existence of a Creator in 2000 years."

I find this argument interesting, but just as annoying as the religious arguments.

If i ask, what is the nature of the universe, or how was the universe created, or simply what is the universe ? And someone answers "God" created it, or "Its a simulation". My immediate interest moves to OK, who the hell made him, or that, or them........

I dont like answering a question with an answer that breeds way more questions than the original point. then again, that doesnt mean it shouldnt be taking seriously. Its just that if humanity proved we were indeed in a simulation, i would be, and feel no more or less comfortable and satisfied with lifes mysteries.

Edited by Spankster

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Tiggs
Read Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument?

"The Simulation Argument is perhaps the first interesting argument for the existence of a Creator in 2000 years."

I think it's fair to say I'm pretty familiar with it.

I personally interviewed him late last year for a documentary I'm making on the subject. He's a seriously intelligent guy.

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Lt_Ripley
The following summarises my position:

1. A personal God, being a God with which it is possible to have a personal relationship, by definition, must interact with reality.

2. In every scientific study ever, no evidence of this interaction has been found - even in cases where it would implicity be found, such as studies on the effectiveness of prayer.

3. Therefore, the necessary evidence required in order for a personal God to exist is missing.

If an impersonal God exists - then so be it. Attempting to interact with it, in any way, is impossible by definition.

On the other hand, I believe there is more to this Universe than any of us will ever know. I find the concept of karma appealing, as I deeply wish that some form of universal justice existed. Having pondered quantum physics for some time, I also find the concept of a force that pervades everything appealing.

In addition, with my background in software design, I find myself drawn to the idea that the Universe is merely a computer simulation.

I label myself an Athiest for convenience, mostly. It's much easier than having to explain that I'm mostly Athiest with really lax Buddhist / Jedi / Hacker tendancies.

I agree with your points !

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FurthurBB
What are your reasons for being religious (belief in a god, deity, being)?

If you were a "born again" religious person what made you choose the path of religion again?

What personal experience (if any) made you believe in god?

Why are you an Atheist? Reasons?

Peace

T.I.G

My family is made up of almost every religion on earth, except Quakers, Mennonites, and Mormons. Having such a mix of religions in my family caused me to be interested in religion, but, not be religious. By the time I went to university and studied biology I was already an atheist, but, it showed me that there is no need for a god/goddess/gods at all.

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Emma_Acid
I think it's fair to say I'm pretty familiar with it.

I personally interviewed him late last year for a documentary I'm making on the subject. He's a seriously intelligent guy.

That's pretty awesome. Keep me updated on the progress of your doc, sounds ace.

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IamsSon
Why do you believe this IamsSon ? What made you draw that conclusion ?

I find it to be the most reasonable option. The universe is one of cause and effect, therefore, the existence of the universe itself must be the effect of a cause.

And what possible purposes could their be to create the universe ? (Im not saying you know, but i cant even think of an example "purpose" that would give context to the point, what kind of purpos, or purposes would you propose may be likely?)

I think one possible purpose could be to create an environment where He can train intelligent beings on the impact of decisions. Every decision we make impacts not just the one making the decision, but those around the one making the decision, and at times, even those not directly interacting with the one making the decision.

And if your not religious why the sig ? LOL, am i missing a joke ?
I do not consider my personal relationship with God to be a religious activity, I do not practice any rituals or activities which are intended to make me more worthy of His love.

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Spankster

Cool, thanks for the clear up IamsSon.

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IamsSon
Cool, thanks for the clear up IamsSon.

Anytime. :tu:

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Dr. Peter Venkman

I'm a Buddhist. I know that doesn't qualify as religion for some, and in the way I practice I wouldn't necesarrily consider it religion either. I believe in Karma, Rebirth,etc... I cannot say if that is what really happens. However, these metaphysical aspects take a back seat to the practical application of the Eightfold Path, the 5 Precepts, meditation etc...

That being said, I started as a Southern Baptist. (YEEEEE HAWWWW!!!!) I later moved with my father who is a Unitarian. None of it ever sat right with me. In my teens I studied Gardnerian Wicca. I found it to be quite beautiful, and identified with it in many ways, and still do. Ultimately I gained nothing from it though. It was like... living a joke. A lie. wound up feeling the same as Christianity to me. It wasn't until I met a Chaplain in the Marine Corps that I was introduced to Buddhism. I was talking to him about how I felt about God etc... (Hey, that's his job right) I listened to the same Jesus is our lord and savior spiel I'd heard all my life and told him.. I just don't know. he asked Don't know what? I said.. I don't know if it matters.. whether or not there is a God. (It's a longer story than that, but this was the turning point) He told me I may be more comfortable with Buddhism than anything else, and gave me the names of some books to check out. I didn't explore Buddhism until many years later though.

Now, I comfortably can say... I do not know if there is a God, and I don't care whether there is or isn't. That simple realization truly freed me. This tug of war back and forth between believers and nonbelievers... waste of time imho. Entertaining at times, but ultimately nothing more. Certtainly nothing to get upset over lol. What happens when I die? Don't know. Don't care. I'll deal with it when I die ya know? I'll deal with life right now.

:) There ya go!

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Skim Milky

Call it genetic disposition, but belief has always been a part of who I am. At the end of the day, it's a conviction of certainty fueled by the blend of heart and mind. It's very obvious, from an empirical sense, that nothing spiritual can exist. This is an idea I've tried to live, but failed. It's difficult even to describe, but being a product of my perception and nothing more, I sense some type of transcendent consciousness that endorses ideas of love, an appreciation of life, and a spirit of giving that is reinforced by feelings of joy when we serve these purposes. The only traces of a "God" I can judge is through the residue of these aspects of existence. A purely scientific view of life, for me, leaves me cold, angry, indifferent, and selfish. Call it a survival mechanism if you wish...this is who I am. Granted, I won't pretend to understand all of the details of a spiritual existence like some religions do. Ignorance can truly be bliss. An honesty with yourself on what you know and what you don't is essential to being comfortable with your existence.

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Lt_Ripley
Call it genetic disposition, but belief has always been a part of who I am. At the end of the day, it's a conviction of certainty fueled by the blend of heart and mind. It's very obvious, from an empirical sense, that nothing spiritual can exist. This is an idea I've tried to live, but failed. It's difficult even to describe, but being a product of my perception and nothing more, I sense some type of transcendent consciousness that endorses ideas of love, an appreciation of life, and a spirit of giving that is reinforced by feelings of joy when we serve these purposes. The only traces of a "God" I can judge is through the residue of these aspects of existence. A purely scientific view of life, for me, leaves me cold, angry, indifferent, and selfish. Call it a survival mechanism if you wish...this is who I am. Granted, I won't pretend to understand all of the details of a spiritual existence like some religions do. Ignorance can truly be bliss. An honesty with yourself on what you know and what you don't is essential to being comfortable with your existence.

good to see you back . haven't seen you in a while !

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momentarylapseofreason

Agnostics are the best!!!!!....well, we need cheerleaders too, don't we?

Gimme an A!!! .......gimme a G!!.........gimme an N!!!!

Too bad that so many people have been manipulated (usually unnoticed by themselves,that they instead, have been "guided", a kinder/self-flattering way to perceive it) into black & white thinking, when actually, the world is so colorful!

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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stargazer123
What are your reasons for being religious (belief in a god, deity, being)?

If you were a "born again" religious person what made you choose the path of religion again?

What personal experience (if any) made you believe in god?

Why are you an Atheist? Reasons?

Peace

T.I.G

I'm getting too old to remember how I arrived where I am. :D I am currently without religion but believe in Buddhist philosophy although I was raised Jewish/Catholic and was once a southern baptist and born again Christian and it was what many would refer to as an "NDE" that originally pushed me away from religion on a different path. I believe there is something more than just what we see in bodies, what it is I don't know and I can't define it either all I know is that I can never go back to religion and I can never believe there is absolutely nothing else than what I have seen and been told.

Edited by stargazer123

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Spankster

Hey Dr Peter Venkman,

First, may i congradulate you on the best Avatar on the board :tu:

And second of all, good post. I like when a person see's their religion the way you do. You seem to have put some really decent thought and time into it instead of just believing what mummy and daddy say.

However one bit struck me:

What happens when I die? Don't know. Don't care.

I guess just because iv never heard anyone say it before LOL. Had i never heard of, or been introduced to any organised religions im guessing i'd feel the same, however due to my paranoid personality, and un-stoppable thought processes, i am constantly forced to ponder the possibility, and the "what if" scenario's about death and religion. (Especially monotheistic, ibrahimic religions). I cant stop my overactive and annoying mind from wondering about the possibilities.

I am potentially, very concerned about those infinatesimally small, but terrifying possibilities. I can think of no greater horror than to die and discover muslims, christians and jews had been right all along. I dont want to be part of that existance, and if they ARE right i have no hope and have been doomed since birth. Especially if Orthodox, Catholic, or Shia Islamic ideologies are right.

Infact, in these cases, i despise being a part of this universe and feel physically ill when i think about it.

I cant not worry about what happens after we die. If im right, im wormfood, re-enter earths biosphere and life goes on for everyone else. I am more than happy with that. If im wrong, the consequences are the most evil, unfair, violent and sickening prospects imaginable. I cant afford not to worry.

Worst thing is, if im right. I'll never know. If they are right, i'll never stop suffering. Irony is, im a good person who helps his loved ones, donates to charity, and respects his fellow man as equals. But my belies (which i cant control) could see me suffer for eternity whilst a repentant child mollestor and murderer bathes in gods glory for eternity.

I really do feel sick when i look at things this way.

Edited by Spankster

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Aemeth
I really do feel sick when i look at things this way.

I am surprised you aren't all-in on Pascal's wager...

If i ask, what is the nature of the universe, or how was the universe created, or simply what is the universe ? And someone answers "God" created it, or "Its a simulation". My immediate interest moves to OK, who the hell made him, or that, or them........

NOTE TO EVERYONE WHO USES THIS ARGUMENT:

It sucks.

As an atheist, you MUST explain how the universe could come about naturally, or at least admit that it defies the rules of logic.

As a theist, you are NOT required to explain how God came about. "God" plays by different rules than nature. Namely, we can't understand God. That is why He is God.

Regardless of whether or not you think the above answer is a cop-out, it is true nonetheless.

And props to everyone who has said they don't care if God exists. You have truly escaped this dumbass matrix of paradoxical philosophy that I am stuck in :(

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Spankster
I am surprised you aren't all-in on Pascal's wager...

I cant possibly. I categorically do not believe in God. Therefore cant even begin to adhere to this ideology.

NOTE TO EVERYONE WHO USES THIS ARGUMENT:

It sucks.

As an atheist, you MUST explain how the universe could come about naturally, or at least admit that it defies the rules of logic.

As a theist, you are NOT required to explain how God came about. "God" plays by different rules than nature. Namely, we can't understand God. That is why He is God.

Regardless of whether or not you think the above answer is a cop-out, it is true nonetheless.

Hmmm, I dont know if your saying what i said sucks, or if your saying people who use the god/simulation argument sucks ??? Would you clarify exactly what sucks dude ? Cheers.

And props to everyone who has said they don't care if God exists. You have truly escaped this dumbass matrix of paradoxical philosophy that I am stuck in :(

Depends, again, who's right and who's wrong. They, and i could all be setting ourselves up for an existance of nothing but agony and torment if certain people are to be believed.

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Tiggs
As an atheist, you MUST explain how the universe could come about naturally, or at least admit that it defies the rules of logic.

Fair enough.

The big bang, initiated by Vacuum Energy.

In the big scale of things, this Universe is just a temporary blip in the vacuum.

As a theist, you are NOT required to explain how God came about. "God" plays by different rules than nature. Namely, we can't understand God. That is why He is God.

Regardless of whether or not you think the above answer is a cop-out, it is true nonetheless.

Actually, you are required.

Let me give you a start.

For example, The Abrahamic religions believe that man was created in God's image.

We know from various pieces of evidence that the current form of man has evolved over millions of years. We also know that the makeup of the Earth's environment, such as it's gravity, pressure and atmosphere have dictated the form that man has taken.

As an Abrahamic Theist, you are at the very least required to explain how God came into existance with a bodyshape that requires an environment similar to the Earth to fashion when he exists outside of both Time and Space. Not to mention how he popped into existance with a single set of sexual reproductive organs.

If you're unable to, that should tell you something.

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Spankster

OWCH TIGGS !

You beat me too it man !!!

I was settin him up for that very point LOL. GAH !

Good man good man. And good post.

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Emma_Acid
As an atheist, you MUST explain how the universe could come about naturally, or at least admit that it defies the rules of logic.

We don't currently know, but that doesn't mean we have to throw out all known science, shrug our shoulders and say "god did it." We may never know, but there are a lot of theoretical models bouncing around, none of which defy the rules of logic.

*edit - thanks Tiggs, better answer than I could have given.

As a theist, you are NOT required to explain how God came about. "God" plays by different rules than nature. Namely, we can't understand God. That is why He is God.

Sorry, that sucks. "God" isn't the default answer for everything until science comes up trumps. God in the OT sense (utterly perfect, sees/hears/knows everything for all eternity - pretty much a first amongst deities) is clearly the invention of sexually repressed Iron Age Jews who needed a tribally uniting theocratic law that couldn't be questioned.

If "God" plays by different rules, why does "He" (funny that, outside of nature yet still has a gender) care whether men have sex with each other, whether you work on a sunday, or if your meat is slaughtered in a certain way.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say "God is jealous, you must obey him or he gets angry", and then say "but he's outside nature and we can't understand him." Really? You make it sound like you understand his wishes pretty well.

Regardless of whether or not you think the above answer is a cop-out, it is true nonetheless.

No, it is nonetheless called "making the rules up as you go along." It is only "true" in that it is written in a 4000 year old book of questionable authority. That is the only grounds you have on which to make that statement.

And props to everyone who has said they don't care if God exists. You have truly escaped this dumbass matrix of paradoxical philosophy that I am stuck in :(

Its pretty easy y'know. Look at the effect faith has on civilisation. Look at the real differences between moderation and fundamentalism. Look at the nature of Islam and whether or not we will ever have world peace. And then look at the supposed up sides to religion, and realise that whether God exists really doesn't matter; the future of mankind in the shadow of fundamentalists who aren't scared of death and posses long range nuclear weapons is overwhelmingly more important than the ridiculous philosophical non-arguments of what "God" actually "wants."

There is more at stake than a tawdry promise of "eternal life." Wake up, priorities need sorting.

Edited by Emma_Acid

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Spankster

And to add to what Emma said if i may,

Lets not let religious people away with being lazy. I dont accept that people have belifs "Just because". You wanna have a debate ? Then start debating. Using that excuse whats the point in this part of the board existsing.

God did it magically, simply, cleanly and with no traceable evidence other than the love we all feel in our hearts ? PFFT ! Pull the other one. I'll never let anyone away with an answer "Just because".

God, if it exists, exists within realms of discovery. Or if you sk me, only in the minds of his devout believers.

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Dr. Peter Venkman
Hey Dr Peter Venkman,

First, may i congradulate you on the best Avatar on the board :tu:

And second of all, good post. I like when a person see's their religion the way you do. You seem to have put some really decent thought and time into it instead of just believing what mummy and daddy say.

However one bit struck me:

I guess just because iv never heard anyone say it before LOL. Had i never heard of, or been introduced to any organised religions im guessing i'd feel the same, however due to my paranoid personality, and un-stoppable thought processes, i am constantly forced to ponder the possibility, and the "what if" scenario's about death and religion. (Especially monotheistic, ibrahimic religions). I cant stop my overactive and annoying mind from wondering about the possibilities.

I am potentially, very concerned about those infinatesimally small, but terrifying possibilities. I can think of no greater horror than to die and discover muslims, christians and jews had been right all along. I dont want to be part of that existance, and if they ARE right i have no hope and have been doomed since birth. Especially if Orthodox, Catholic, or Shia Islamic ideologies are right.

Infact, in these cases, i despise being a part of this universe and feel physically ill when i think about it.

I cant not worry about what happens after we die. If im right, im wormfood, re-enter earths biosphere and life goes on for everyone else. I am more than happy with that. If im wrong, the consequences are the most evil, unfair, violent and sickening prospects imaginable. I cant afford not to worry.

Worst thing is, if im right. I'll never know. If they are right, i'll never stop suffering. Irony is, im a good person who helps his loved ones, donates to charity, and respects his fellow man as equals. But my belies (which i cant control) could see me suffer for eternity whilst a repentant child mollestor and murderer bathes in gods glory for eternity.

I really do feel sick when i look at things this way.

So don't look at things that way.

Like I said, I have my beliefs. I believe in Nirvana, enlightenment, whatever ya wanna call it, same thing... But, like I said earlier, those are my beliefs, I can't tell you that's how it is, but I have a hunch. What is more important to me, is how I live my life. That's the key, my life. Not after my life. I haven't died yet, there's not much I can do about it lol. Through practical application of the Eightfold path in my life. I have a better outlook on it. It's not mystical. Spiritual maybe in a loose sense, but ultimately... just common sense. Works for me, may not work for someone else! Other people are comfortable with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc... Atheism for that matter... We're all just tryin' to get through the day lol.

Edited by Dr. Peter Venkman

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InnerSpace
I am potentially, very concerned about those infinatesimally small, but terrifying possibilities. I can think of no greater horror than to die and discover muslims, christians and jews had been right all along. I dont want to be part of that existance, and if they ARE right i have no hope and have been doomed since birth. Especially if Orthodox, Catholic, or Shia Islamic ideologies are right.

Infact, in these cases, i despise being a part of this universe and feel physically ill when i think about it.

I cant not worry about what happens after we die. If im right, im wormfood, re-enter earths biosphere and life goes on for everyone else. I am more than happy with that. If im wrong, the consequences are the most evil, unfair, violent and sickening prospects imaginable. I cant afford not to worry.

Worst thing is, if im right. I'll never know. If they are right, i'll never stop suffering. Irony is, im a good person who helps his loved ones, donates to charity, and respects his fellow man as equals. But my belies (which i cant control) could see me suffer for eternity whilst a repentant child mollestor and murderer bathes in gods glory for eternity.

I really do feel sick when i look at things this way.

Some great postings in here. :tu:

Spankster, I like your insight and can very much relate with regard to the 3 major religions, although I give little thought or fear that they 'might' be right. lol

I've been on both sides of the fence and in between, and oi...I'm like you, if they are right...then I'd rather have nothing to do with this Universe, and would rather be dead.

Here is my analogy of at least 3 belief systems...

Garden website:

Do Not Force Your Tree Into Competition With Other Plants

This is not a tree. It is a wisteria vine that successfully won the battle for survival against a beautiful live oak.

tree_dont12.jpg

The dead trunk is all that is left of the oak. In this case, the owner cut off the tree crown and has allowed the wisteria to live.

In many cases trees can not compete with an aggressive plant that can completely control all nutrients and light.

Many plants can take advantage of their spreading habit (many are vines) and have the ability to overwhelm the most vigorous tree.

>>>>>You can plant spreading shrubs and vines but keep them away from your trees.

Source

Religion, when left unattended and not pruned back...becomes invasive/deadly and will squeeze the life out of anything it comes in contact with.

It doesn't even have to be a living organism for it to take over....Grandparenting_Wisteria1-1.jpg

Strength in numbers when necessary..."a threefold cord is not easily broken" Ecclesiastes 4:12 KJV-Bible (Source)

DSC08393-757687-1.jpg ~ ~ ~ wisteria-0905-2592-long-live-pit-1.jpg

...it's 'beauty' deceiving.

wisteria_sinensis.jpg ~ Oh the irony...lol ~ wisteria_at_nymans_gardens_west_sus.jpg

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