Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
The Infidel Guy

Your reasons for being Religious/Atheist etc?

101 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

ShaunZero

So you turned into an Agnostic, rather than into a pure Atheist, as you are refusing to believe in something completely lacking any rational proof, not actually you believe that there is no God. I think this is a better option, as Atheists can be fanatics same as the believers.

In my opinion the term "Atheist" can be(And often is) used for both those that believe there is no god, and those that simply do not have a belief in any gods. I'm not here to claim things true that I actually do not know. Do I KNOW that there isn't a god? No, but I'm pretty convinced that there isn't. I have absolutely no reason to believe in god, and neither does anyone else apparantly or they would have come up with something by now.

Edited by ShaunZero
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARAB0D

In my opinion the term "Atheist" can be(And often is) used for both those that believe there is no god, and those that simply do not have a belief in any gods. I'm not here to claim things true that I actually do not know. Do I KNOW that there isn't a god? No, but I'm pretty convinced that there isn't. I have absolutely no reason to believe in god, and neither does anyone else apparantly or they would have come up with something by now.

But by name and sense Atheist DENIES God, while Agnostic simply cannot find the proofs. A-Theist, Opposing to Theism. Agnostic opposes the possibility of Absolute Knowledge to exist, so theoretically if an Agnostic comes across a rational proof of God, then it would be another story. In this sense we have to distinguish 2 meanings of the term "Atheism" - it can be a belief that there is no God, or it can be a position of an Agnostic, who also denies God but BECAUSE there is no proof. You expressed Agnosticism, which led to you having a position of Atheist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShaunZero

Label me however you want, but I give god the same probability of existing as the flying spaghetti monster. I simply have no belief in god.

Edited by ShaunZero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARAB0D

Label me however you want, but I give god the same probability of existing as the flying spaghetti monster. I simply have no belief in god.

Spaghetti monster is more real

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tiggs

...but we cannot have an infinite ANYTHING. I thought we were on the same page because we agreed on a finite universe, but claiming an infinite eternal void/vacuum/etc. just sweeps the problem under the rug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalam_cosmological_argument <--Just replace the word universe with void here. The logic doesn't really change, because as long as CHANGE is occurring within the void, as you suggested, the problem of infinite regression is still alive and well.

Infinite regression is only an issue if you continue to insist that in the beginning there must be Nothing.

However, there is no such thing as Nothing, physically, anywhere within the Universe. It does not exist. There is only vaccum, which holds the quantum foam of possibility.

If you're unable to prove that it's a physical possibility for Nothing to exist, then my reasoning still stands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aemeth

Infinite regression is only an issue if you continue to insist that in the beginning there must be Nothing.

However, there is no such thing as Nothing, physically, anywhere within the Universe. It does not exist. There is only vaccum, which holds the quantum foam of possibility.

If you're unable to prove that it's a physical possibility for Nothing to exist, then my reasoning still stands.

Hmm? I thought an infinite regression is no longer an issue once we have a definite starting point (that point being pure nothingness)

But you are right, nothingness can only exist in theory. But here is my point:

As long as the potential for change exists (or a quantum foam of possibility, as you put it), "time" must be "passing." If no change can occur, as in a theoretical state of nothingness, time is practically and philosophically irrelevant. But as long as a possibility for change, in any form, exists, you face the same philosophical problems as offered by the Kalaam arguments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beckys_Mom

But by name and sense Atheist DENIES God, while Agnostic simply cannot find the proofs.

Technically..........you are correct

But if we were all honest people, including atheists, then we are also agnostic..........because we all know there is no way to disprove or prove god...we don't

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beckys_Mom

Or if you sk me, only in the minds of his devout believers.

Prove it...go on then...prove it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARAB0D

Infinite regression is only an issue if you continue to insist that in the beginning there must be Nothing.

However, there is no such thing as Nothing, physically, anywhere within the Universe. It does not exist. There is only vaccum, which holds the quantum foam of possibility.

If you're unable to prove that it's a physical possibility for Nothing to exist, then my reasoning still stands.

You can also see it as Peano axioms in theory of Numbers. If all Natural Numbers are "existing in appropriate set of NN, then Zero is not existing in it, and yet it exists among the numbers on numeric axes and is the point where these axes intersect. Similar fashion if Everything is compared to Set of NN, then Zero is in its root, but does not exist as a part of the Set.

Absolute Vacuum does not exist in our Everything, as our Universe is evenly penetrated by various fields, but Universe as Everything can well exist as a form of Nothing oe Zero, which is not by itself belonging to it. Thus Nothing may play a role of God-Creator, while we also occur to be Gods, as it is in our perception this Creation/Universe exists - at least we are unaware of the other observers capable to see it like we do, and even if there are others, then they must be also Gods. If we all (observers) extinct there would be no one to observe the Universe, and it would technically cease to exist, because any reality can only exist as a pair of Objective and Subjective realities; so id our Subjective realities are removed from the system, then Objective reality disappears too as it cannot exist on its own. From this it follows that God-creator is non-existent and does not belong to our Reality, and instead we are here to observe the Creation, so we are not only God's images but in fact God itself, as the creation only exists in our perception, means we have created it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dying Seraph

What are your reasons for being religious (belief in a god, deity, being)?

If you were a "born again" religious person what made you choose the path of religion again?

What personal experience (if any) made you believe in god?

Why are you an Atheist? Reasons?

Peace

T.I.G

The "white light" path was not for me and a darker force of nature called to me.

Growing up with a strict Christian Father I got fed up with the bs and and hypocrisy that surrounded the "white light" paths. Not just at his church but just about all that I went to.

I believe in a God, Jesus, Lucifer and Satan, but as energy or matter that thrives within us all and around us, rather than actual deities.

LaVeyan Satanism appealed to me because it's self serving and is predominately philosophy anyway. It's about loving the god that is ones self. To me it's realistic instead of casting faith and hope into, well... :hmm:

The Luciferian path appealed to me because while it can be as self serving as Satanism it's about being the best you can be. Trying to attain greatness, in a sense. The beauty with the Luciferian path is the ability to embrace many religious views, teachings, etc. instead of tying ones self to one direction. That really apealled to me. If one day I wanna pick up the Bible and find something I can embrace or even incorporate, great! If it be Buddhist text, Catholic, philosopher, poet even JW text or other I feel I can use for the better, great! I'll take what I feel I can and use it accordingly.

:devil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARAB0D

The Luciferian path appealed to me because while it can be as self serving as Satanism it's about being the best you can be. Trying to attain greatness, in a sense. The beauty with the Luciferian path is the ability to embrace many religious views, teachings, etc. instead of tying ones self to one direction. That really apealled to me. If one day I wanna pick up the Bible and find something I can embrace or even incorporate, great! If it be Buddhist text, Catholic, philosopher, poet even JW text or other I feel I can use for the better, great! I'll take what I feel I can and use it accordingly.

:devil:

Hmmm. This sounds pretty much like Pentecostal, as Jor-el explained to me. He also reads about Baal and El much. Do Luciferites speak in tongues? Do they think personal wealth is a reward for Faith?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARAB0D
cthulhucrossing.jpg
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dying Seraph

Hmmm. This sounds pretty much like Pentecostal, as Jor-el explained to me. He also reads about Baal and El much. Do Luciferites speak in tongues? Do they think personal wealth is a reward for Faith?

A couple of things you say confuse me so I'll do my best to explain. :)

Luciferians embrace teachings that they feel benefits them. If one feels a God can benefit them on their path, who am I to say another Luciferian doesn't believe in a God or embrace Pentecostal views for that matter? But to say Luciferians are Pentecostal, is to be grossly misinformed.

You'll find many that claim Luciferianism tend to sympathize with the Lucifer mythology and embrace this figure over any other God or being. Hence Lucifer in the name. Pentecostal has to do with some other God or being not Lucifer.

Not sure if Jor-el was joking or being serious or what. Speacking in tongues? Luciferianism is about seeking enlightenment not speacking jibberish! So Tongues is out of the question unless one feels they can gain something from that I suppose. ALthough I fail to see how.

You ask, "Do they think personal wealth is a reward for Faith?" This is an individual matter. How can I possibly speack for another? In my view personal wealth is according to my actions not faith.

----

"The Order of Phosphorus is a non-profit Luciferian Magickal Order founded by Michael W. Ford. The Order sanctifies core Luciferian traits of self-discipline, spiritual excellence and the predatory pursuit of knowledge. This initiatory magickal system fuses the complexities and rewards of traditional ceremonial magick with the efficacy of Chaos Magick. Progress is self-directed and anti-heterodox, evidenced in the Order's diverse cross-section of Initiates including Theistic, Traditional and Atheistic Satanists, Gnostic Luciferians and a newly-emergent class of Left Hand Path pantheism.

"The Church of Adversarial Light, an ecclesiastical affiliation of the Order of Phosphorus, augments the culture and wisdom of the Luciferian Current without the rigors and requirements of the Phosphoric initiatory system.

"The Ordo Luciferis, as distinct from the Ordo Luciferi mentioned below, was a spiritual Luciferian group consisting of high-grade Freemasons. As testament to the intact and thriving systems of initiation in the Order of Phosphorus, the Ordo Luciferis graciously dissolved its own organization to honor and best contribute to the emminence of this Luciferian Current." Wiki A few Luciferian Groups

----

I added this stuff from wiki because it shows just how diverse Luciferianism is. There may be some that embrace Pentecostal views but could hardly be considered Pentecostals since Luciferians tend to embrace a pantheon of iealogies.

:devil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tiggs

... here is my point:

As long as the potential for change exists (or a quantum foam of possibility, as you put it), "time" must be "passing." If no change can occur, as in a theoretical state of nothingness, time is practically and philosophically irrelevant. But as long as a possibility for change, in any form, exists, you face the same philosophical problems as offered by the Kalaam arguments.

I understand the point you're making. I just completely disagree.

The Kalaam arguments are based around first cause. As such, it assumes that Time must have a finite beginning.

I think you'll find I described my vacuum as being eternal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cheo_vl

i'm gonna put it as simply as i can "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", i simply have not seen or heard anything that would make me believe in religion or god(s)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Infidel Guy

i'm gonna put it as simply as i can "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", i simply have not seen or heard anything that would make me believe in religion or god(s)

Many, like my self, have put that sentence much more simpler. Unfortunately, ignorance is bliss.

Peace

T.I.G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Finity

Atheist because I just can't bring myself to follow a religion and live how someone tells me to. The exsistance of God isn't a factor for me, real or not I wouldn't change and would still follow my own path because I feel thats what I should do :)

Edited by Finity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARAB0D

I understand the point you're making. I just completely disagree.

The Kalaam arguments are based around first cause. As such, it assumes that Time must have a finite beginning.

I think you'll find I described my vacuum as being eternal.

Clear cut. Void or nothing is eternal - it exists when and where nothing else exists. Also, Void is indestructible - as there is nothing in it to destroy. Void is non-created, as it is impossible to create nothing. And, in accordance with the view of physics, Void can form all the existing things. Also, Void or vacuum has no form, image, size or shape (this seems obvious). Therefore we have here at least 5 divine attributes - Eternal, Indestructible, Non-created, Origin of All Things Existing and Shapeless. Suspiciously parallels traditional definition of God-Creator...

Edited by marabod

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Marcus Aurelius

cthulhucrossing.jpg

Ohhhhhhhhhhh...........I want this sign.......someone steal it for me. I will seriously give you my residential address. I am a HUGE H.P. Lovecraft fan!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARAB0D

Ohhhhhhhhhhh...........I want this sign.......someone steal it for me. I will seriously give you my residential address. I am a HUGE H.P. Lovecraft fan!!!!!!!!

You need to contact Pugsly from Adams Family, he was good in pinching the signs. But do not you feel pity for the drivers who can slow down accidentally?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blood_Sacrifice
On 8/13/2009 at 6:46 PM, Emma_Acid said:

As for why I'm like this, I'm not entirely sure. Had a Quaker upbringing, but learnt at an early age that true discovery lies in science which is more wonderful than any tawdry, unimaginative "holy" book, and if you have a god, keep him to yourself. My methodist preacher grandfather taught me all of those things.

What is quaker upbringing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GlitterRose
Timothy
3 hours ago, Blood_Sacrifice said:

What is quaker upbringing?

What is a 7 year old thread?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NChSh

I went to Catholic school through 8th grade, and even served as an altar boy for several years. I've also studied anthropology, archaeology, mythology, folklore, history, religion, linguistics, biology, physics, chemistry, and astronomy for over 20 years, so I have a somewhat decent understanding of science and culture. Education, more than anything, has made me agnostic, but I always default to atheism, since while I don't know if any type of deity exists, I haven't yet found any reason to believe that one should. There are thousands of religions, from thousands of cultures. None of them match our current scientific understanding of the universe, so I have no reason to believe any reveal any sort of truth, outside of the personal experiences of the authors/shamans/mystics/etc. that created them. No god is necessary, and the idea of any sort of all-powerful being existing before existence stretches logic far beyond any reasonable limits. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WhispersInTheAttic

Religion is great. However some people can push it and be very hypocritical. I don't hate anyone for what they believe in or if they chose to be Athiest. Everyone has a right. As for me I believe because it makes me happy and I believe in life after death but that's my opinion. May have no proof but it's just something I feel inside. It's hard to put into words. I've had some weird experiences more than once and it keeps me thinking and on my toes. 

I'd never shoot down other people's opinions or tell them their wrong. Do what makes you happy. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.