GH and GHI:

[Wookietim]

It's on here in Australia, we've just seen the start of GHI (First few eps of season 1) and season 4 of GH.

Does it go down here from now on?

Well, let me respond to that in two ways :

1. How many TV shows can you think of that don't go down in quality after 4 years? I can think of only a handful over the course of the entire run of TV ("The Simpsons" took about 15 years to start coasting, but it even happened to that show).

2. GH started out as a laughable idea for a show - let's face it, it has no believability to begin with...

[ReconMarine]

Well, let me respond to that in two ways :

1. How many TV shows can you think of that don't go down in quality after 4 years? I can think of only a handful over the course of the entire run of TV ("The Simpsons" took about 15 years to start coasting, but it even happened to that show).

2. GH started out as a laughable idea for a show - let's face it, it has no believability to begin with...

There is much to believe or to "think" about with GH and GHI...

The original concept and it seems a revival in recent weeks has been to debunk, not to sensationalize...

I thought last nights episode was one of the best in awhile.

While there was nothing spectacular about the episode, it was an honest one.

Semper Fi

[SilverCougar]

And they've had honest ones all along. I can see how so many would think alot of the evidence is faked. Especialy if you're skeptical to begin with. And given that it's been shown time and time again that you can't always believe what you see on TV.. *shrugs*

Are they fakeing? I don't know. And I'm not going to be nitpicky about it, nor am I going to swallow it whole and think that it's proof possitive they found hauntings. Do I believe in ghosts? Yep. Grew up in a house that I can swear is haunted. Doors opening up to let the dogs in and out, cupboards opening and closeing on their own. My locked bedroom door flinging open and hitting me in the face. Sure, you don't have to believe it, and I don't ask you too. It's all personal experiances that this boils down to.

My guess is if you *REALLY* want to find out how GH works, go on a hunt with them.

Edited September 11, 2009 by SilverCougar

[sinewave]

Their methods are not at all scientific. They make pretty much every mistake that can be made if they were really doing science. The camera is always on their faces and not where they are looking. A good example is in one episode one of the girls, the heavier one (Kristen?) stops cold and slack jawed staring at something off to the left of camera. She holds this position gaping for close to 30 seconds and the camera guy never turns to look. Either he is a very disciplined professional who is immune to the shock and surprise emoted by the girl or he knew there was nothing there to see. I suspect it is all theatrics. Roto Rooter ain't gonna pay if no one watches.

[SilverCougar]

Not like there's an *exact* scientific field when it comes to finding ghosts..

[sinewave]

Not like there's an *exact* scientific field when it comes to finding ghosts..

They use NO science much less exact science. That is essentially because the paranormal has no apparent compatibility with science in the first place. That does not justify however, a haphazard approach. TAPS expect to be taken seriously yet they ignore scientific method at EVERY juncture.

* No controls are applied to any testing but we are expected to accept their EVP and EMF "evidence" is genuine and not tainted by environmental sources.

* They make no effort to map or secure the buildings ahead of time allowing for tainting and deception.

* They get the back story up front which will tend to color their perception and setup expectations.

* Multiple teams often "work" at the same time allowing for crosstalk.

* They do their baseline measurements DURING the investigation.

* The entire investigation is squeezed into a single session often running to the wee hours when people will just not be at their best.

* They rely on low grade audio and video equipment for nearly all evidence gathering. Cheap equipment is likely to create its own evidence.

* They do not seem to understand the principles behind the operation of their testing equipment nor do they understand possible sources of interference.

* They do not always aggressively investigate when "evidence" presents itself. For example, when a clearly human form appears on the FLIR 25 feet ahead them they tend to stand there and say "Wow, what the frig?" and rewind the tape instead of going after the target. There is little or no urgency to seek the truth.

Edited September 16, 2009 by sinewave

[SilverCougar]

*shrugs* Again.. if you don't find how they perform satisfactory.. then the best way is to go to them about it, get their answers.. and maybe even go on an investigation.

Thought it's not always one session. They've returned to a couple places once or twice more (sadly mostly for a special or something) And many times a follow up team will go back to a few homes that are asking for another session with no problems. It's just not covered by SciFi. No problem really. Just because we don't see a follow up investigation doesn't mean they don't happen.

Name me one search team that *DOESN'T get back story upfront first? It's called knowing all possibilities and getting all information needed. If I was going into a house on a search team I would *deffinatly* want to know the history and back story to that place. Just so I'd also know what to look for. And *a lot* of the time, they can look for something specific and debunk it. (case in point.. knowing about verious faucets that "turn on" all their own. They knew to look for that and then could work on debunking it.. which they have)

And crosstalk is always called out to make sure it was the other team. You'll note that smaller houses and places, they send one team in at a time. Bigger places, they try their hardest to make sure both teams are as far from eachother as possible. And if they hear a noise that they can't explain away, and know that there's another team in.. they walkie them to find out where they are. And more times then not, it is figured out what is done to make that noise.. and can debunk something that the owner made claim to them in their back story session.

They rely on the technology availible to them, and what they can get. (granted I do look at the K2 meter quite doubiously)

Actually their tech mangers know the equiptment quite extensivly. Hells Barry is extreamly expert with what he brings on their investigations.

And yes.. they do actually try to go after whatever they see in the flier. it's just difficult to tell that they're trying to follow whatever passes through it's field of vision because of how it's showing on the screen. And they do rely on the cameras. However alot is lost in editing much of the time. SO! Again I say... talk to them, go on an investigation with them if you really want to know what's up and how they truly operate.

[sinewave]

*shrugs* Again.. if you don't find how they perform satisfactory.. then the best way is to go to them about it, get their answers.. and maybe even go on an investigation.

Name me one search team that *DOESN'T get back story upfront first? It's called knowing all possibilities and getting all information needed. If I was going into a house on a search team I would *deffinatly* want to know the history and back story to that place. Just so I'd also know what to look for. And *a lot* of the time, they can look for something specific and debunk it. (case in point.. knowing about verious faucets that "turn on" all their own. They knew to look for that and then could work on debunking it.. which they have)

They rely on the technology availible to them, and what they can get. (granted I do look at the K2 meter quite doubiously)

Actually their tech mangers know the equiptment quite extensivly. Hells Barry is extreamly expert with what he brings on their investigations.

Going with them does not seem like an option and I don't believe they do any "investigations" that are not for Syfy anymore.

We are talking about GH and GHI here but all of the TV paranormal people use flawed methods namely getting the back story up front. That is simply bad science.

They apply technologies in ways which they were not intended. While there is nothing empirically wrong with that, they use no controls to disqualify bad data. The KII is simply an EMF detector like the ones used by electricians and electrical engineers.

I disagree. The tech managers might know how to setup the video and audio equipment but they do not understand electromagnetic phenomena. For example, they they only detect apparent EM spikes they don't qualify them. An instantaneous measurement of flux density at a single point does not reveal anything. Was it AC or DC? Which direction was it moving? What was the duration. If it was AC what frequency? Was it truly local or was it also detectable outside the building? As for Barry, well he would likely not sell as many books or conference tickets if he did not seem like such an expert. He builds his castles right on the beach along with the rest of them.

Edited September 16, 2009 by sinewave

[sam12six]

I still watch each week hoping they'll catch that creepy EVP that says, "New episodes of Eureka every Friday night on SYFY!!"

[Wookietim]

*shrugs* Again.. if you don't find how they perform satisfactory.. then the best way is to go to them about it, get their answers.. and maybe even go on an investigation.

One does not have to physically be present in order to realize bad science and bad practices when one sees them...

[ReconMarine]

One does not have to physically be present in order to realize bad science and bad practices when one sees them...

Ok so they were in the records room....

And they saw the "ghost" image.

Why did the video go from being crystal clear during the evidence review, to dirty and grainy during the reveal? And it wasn't shown in the GREEN NV, it became B/W..... The Green was much more credible to me in the beginning as well.

And I thought it looked very much like a person walking in a hoodie with a zippered front, but then when it came close to the left side of the screen it looked as if it were two people side by side.

I think it was a reflection of Grant and Jay off of something as they moved across the room.

As far as some people over the last page talking about using the equipment out of it's specified use....

I am a Licensed Master Electrician and I have always had an issue with some of the things said or done in the show:

1. Grant calling MC Cable = Metal Clad electrical cable ROMEX.....that burns my *** every time. ROMEX is a vinyl insulator covering a drypaper wrap that covers graded insulated conductors. Here is a picture of both:

MC Cable:

ROMEX:

2. As I have mentioned before When they have used the EMF or K2 meter which is designed to detect electromagnetic fields in the electrical environments. The fields are generated when an electrical device becomes active. The device can generated a field when a Hot water tank kicks on, a AC unit fan kicks on, rooftop exhaust fans kick on, etc, etc..... any kind of start/stop device can create an EMF field when it is engaged from a dead position.

And several times we have seen Jay lay the K2 on the main junction box of a hot water tank, or the main disconnect for the HVAC units......bad science.

3. Kill the power...... Why not just remove all question, and kill the power? Honda's whisper series generators produce more than enough power for them to run their equipment at constant unvaried rates, for less than 1,000 dollars, not to mention the 3rd generation power inverters that can produce the same power straight from their tech van.

4. More static cameras. I have to say one thing I love about the Ghost Adventure guys is that Zack believes in his X's he sets up cameras all over the place. Set them up and let them go....

5. Secure the environment... You have from 5 to 6 investigators, production staff of at least 5 (one camera man per 2 investigators, sound man, producer), you have more than enough people on site to secure the locations. New Orleans and the Queen Mary were fiasco's of bad planning.

Now as far as the TAPS Hunts go, they are MONEY MAKERS..... there is going to be another at he Stanley hotel with Chris Williams and several others, but the cost is outrageous.

Semper Fi

[sinewave]

Yes, I have heard him call metal clad wire (BX and Greenfield) ROMEX on a few occasions. He clearly has no clue. I'm guessing he isn't really a plumber either.

Killing the power is just a start. You also have to account for any local EMF weather. We are surrounded by it all the time and it should be excluded from any meaningful measurements.

Recon Marines are OK by me. Semper Fi

Edited September 20, 2009 by sinewave

[faceyourfear35]

I am curious as to where exactly the info came about Grant being a substance abuser or appearing to be under the influence of something. Is there a link to site or something?. Ty

[sinewave]

I am curious as to where exactly the info came about Grant being a substance abuser or appearing to be under the influence of something. Is there a link to site or something?. Ty

I think it was purely speculative on the part of the poster and not a statement of fact.

[faceyourfear35]

I think it was purely speculative on the part of the poster and not a statement of fact.

Ic I just wan't sure what exactly it had to do with the show is all. Anyhow happy posting people.

[ReconMarine]

I am curious as to where exactly the info came about Grant being a substance abuser or appearing to be under the influence of something. Is there a link to site or something?. Ty

It came from my personal experience as a trained substance abuse coordinator and councilor for my division while in the military.

Semper Fi

[ReconMarine]

Tonights episode....

Just not very earth shattering for me.

Although in the pre-premiere repeats they showed the "final straw" episode with Brian. I would like to have known more about the details of his "lies", wouldn't you? Could they have had anything to do with previous cases and investigations? Not to mention his "toxic" relationship..... Could that have caused his exit from GHI as well?.

Semper Fi

[MarkINSIGHT198]

This all has to go back to how conspiracy theories, One man starts something and it turns into one HUGE jumbled mess. Of course people are going to debate weither or not things are real or not, thats human nature. My group is apart of the TAPS family and have been featured on the show and knowing what I know about Jason and Grant, they tell you the truth weither you like it or not. I mean, looking back in this post your starting to compare "Ghost Hunters" (An actual paranormal group) to "Ghost Adventures" (A camera crew, who by chance got lucky). ITS A TELEVISION SHOW PEOPLE!!! ENTERTAINMENT!!!

Grant looks fatiqued just like all of us after we have been up for 2 days.

You have to see how there production schedule is to understand how all of us would look if we were committed to something like that.

[MarkINSIGHT198]

No one will ever know about Brian, Recon. Nor is it anyone else's business to know except those invovled. Sounds like you view it from the stand point of a SOAP OPERA. Which its not...I think people who actually investigate, rather than just watch the show, have different view points on things.

[Wookietim]

Grant looks fatiqued just like all of us after we have been up for 2 days.

You have to see how there production schedule is to understand how all of us would look if we were committed to something like that.

Every person (And it's accentuated by TV after a few years) starts to look a bit drawn out after a few years straight of work... Whether or not GH is being honest or not (And I don't think they are), just making a TV show week after week is going to start making a person look fatigued. And if they are being even 50% honest, Grant has a lot of other things going on in his life at the same time as he participates in a weekly shown...

Let's put it this way - look at any actor at the start of their TV show... then compare their look later after starring on it for 5 years... Every person looks tired after that.

[ReconMarine]

No one will ever know about Brian, Recon. Nor is it anyone else's business to know except those invovled. Sounds like you view it from the stand point of a SOAP OPERA. Which its not...I think people who actually investigate, rather than just watch the show, have different view points on things.

If we were not intended to be caried along for the ride and included in the "personal issues", then Jason nor Grant would have allowed or participated in the NUMEROUS "soap opera" moments in the 5 season of the program.....

They chewed Brian out week after week on TV, they offered him up as a liar in their own words, they allowed him to be depicted as an idiot time and again...

Not to mention that TAPS devoted a substantial portion of one magazine issue and the cover to "Brian's Paranormal CRASH"...

Yeah no built in soap opera there was it?

Not just wih Brian, but other issues as well......

Jason's wife, blowing out about his time away from home in the beginning and the mounting costs.

Chris Williams domestic violence with her former spouse.

Steve and the former investigator who was forced to leave because of their blooming relationship (I forget her name).

Steve's innate phobias, bugs, spiders, flying....etc.

Jason and Grant brought those aspects of involvement into the program......not the viewers. If they had not wanted viewers to opine about the various issues, they should not have introduced them.

And on the other note....

How is it that the TAPS Ghost Hunters are any more or less qualified to perform investigations than the Ghost Adventure crew is?

Since they both visit many of the same locations, and in fact gather some of the same evidence, how can one be considered "good", while the other is just "lucky"......BS.

Semper Fi

Edited September 25, 2009 by ReconMarine

[ReconMarine]

Every person (And it's accentuated by TV after a few years) starts to look a bit drawn out after a few years straight of work... Whether or not GH is being honest or not (And I don't think they are), just making a TV show week after week is going to start making a person look fatigued. And if they are being even 50% honest, Grant has a lot of other things going on in his life at the same time as he participates in a weekly shown...

Let's put it this way - look at any actor at the start of their TV show... then compare their look later after starring on it for 5 years... Every person looks tired after that.

Actually Grant looked worse between seasons 2 and the beginning of season 4, I believe he might have gone to get some help.... which is a good thing if so.

Semper Fi

[SilverCougar]

Curious.. if you dislike it so much, why do you watch it? If it's for humour, then why toss up this huge fit about it?

[Purple Pisces]

Curious.. if you dislike it so much, why do you watch it? If it's for humour, then why toss up this huge fit about it?

Couldn't have said it better myself!!

[sinewave]

Tonights episode....

I would like to have known more about the details of his "lies", wouldn't you? Could they have had anything to do with previous cases and investigations? Not to mention his "toxic" relationship..... Could that have caused his exit from GHI as well?.

Semper Fi

I suspect all of that personal stuff is just filler and either scripted or staged by the producers to lend a feel of authenticity to the show. Advertisers love conflict in "reality" TV. It is good for business.