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bc56

Implantable micro chip in Obama's Healthcare

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Neognosis

Come on, you know that was a typo and I meant to type "1000"

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danielost

Even with the worlds smallest tracking device, you simply could not put it on a chip.

Mattshark they have been using these chips in California with volunteers.

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Neognosis
No it is about people like you trying to tell everyone else how to live.

OH FOR PETE'S SAKE........THIS NONSENSE AGAIN?

Telling everyone how to live? When have I ever done that? You use your bible to back up a completely nonsensical idea, but you can't stand when someone pulls you back to reality and points out that you are mistaken. There is nothing about having to get "chipped" in the bill. NOTHING. Yet here come the bible doomsday sayers and their silly REvelations and all this nonsense... so typical.

Then when you point out that the bill has nothing in it even remotely like what they are panicking about, they think you are telling them how to live.

Ignore the fact that I have been saying for 2 years on here that they were going to do the chip thing.

AND STILL WITH THE NONSENSE! You are just DETERMINED to keep perpetuating the false story! Doesn't your holy book say something about lying?

I really don't care what you believe in, and I don't recall either asking, or saying that you couldn't have your belief in God. But you folks just NEED somethign to be outraged about, even if you have to make it up.

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President-Elect Acidhead

Well it cannot be denied that RFID chips are currently being implanted and tested.

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

Use of RFID Implants Low, Yet Concerns Still Flourish

by Zach Brennan, iHealthBeat Staff Writer http://www.ihealthbeat.org/Features/2007/Use-of-RFID-Implants-Low-Yet-Concerns-Still-Flourish.aspx

Implantable radio frequency identification chips, an innovative way to transport personal health records, can expedite physician access to clinical data in emergencies. Providers are able to scan the RFID devices, gain access to a secure database of patients' electronic health records and adjust treatments accordingly. But RFID chips are still in the infancy of their development, so the benefits of speed and up-to-date patient information come with a number of drawbacks, particularly in terms of patient safety and privacy.

"We're still at the very early stages of this technology for implantation," Ben Adida, a research scientist at Children's Hospital in Boston, said, adding, "There's a few pilot deployments but it's not a widespread thing yet, so I don't think we have any data as to what doctors are actually telling patients [or] whether the doctors are well informed or not."

Approximately 500 people nationwide are enrolled in the VeriMed Patient Identification System, which uses implantable RFID chips, according to Allison Tomek, vice president of investor relations and corporate communications for VeriChip's parent company.

In addition, only about 200 of the 5,000 hospitals in the U.S. have RFID readers, so even if a patient has an implanted RFID, it won't necessarily be available for use in an emergency setting, according to John Halamka, CIO of Harvard Medical School and CIO of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston.

The issue of RFIDs was recently highlighted on the Public Library of Science Web site, where five researchers and scientists, including Halamka and Adida, detailed the major benefits and drawbacks of RFID implants.

Benefits of RFID Implants

RFID implants have the potential to significantly advance safety by providing more thorough patient identification in an emergency department, as well as to offer patients the ability to control what types of medical information they will allow physicians to view in an emergency.

"The use of these devices has the potential to add to the safety and the appropriateness of care," according to Mark Levine, chair of the council of ethical and judicial affairs for the American Medical Association. Levine also participated in the PLoS discussion.

The devices might be particularly helpful for patients with Alzheimer's disease who cannot provide their medical history, patients prone to brief lapses of consciousness and individuals who engage in extreme sports and could be noncommunicative due to an injury, according to Halamka.

Halamka, who himself has an RFID chip, also stressed that the devices "could enable patients to establish health care identities and become the stewards of their own data," although without a universal identifier, providers cannot identify patients at all sites of care.

"I am not an evangelist for implanted RFID, but I believe it can be valuable for some patients who understand the risks and benefits," Halamka said on the PLoS Web site.

Privacy, Patient-Tracking Concerns

"Our main worry was we want to make sure that whatever the AMA tells doctors is complete," Adida said, adding, "Not just looking at the narrow slice of are you going to get infected [from the implant], or is it useful ... but there's also all these other consequences that we think people should know about."

The RFID chips use an unencrypted, 16-digit unique patient identifier that links to the EHRs. Adida and other researchers on the PLoS Web site warned that the identifier "is not protected by [HIPAA], and there are no laws that regulate how and by whom it can be read; the possibilities for privacy invasion by interdatabase linkage are vast."

Levine, however, in an interview with iHealthBeat questioned the necessity of HIPAA regulations for the identifiers. He said, "I'm not sure exactly what the need is [for more privacy protections] because [RFID chips] are not widespread and HIPAA guidelines appropriately regulate the access to the electronic medical record systems."

Adida clarified: "We're not worried about people getting to useful, underlying data, but more about the societal impact if RFID chips became widespread."

The RFID chip usually only contains an identifier number and not actual medical data, so "you use the number to look up the records in the database, but this unique number is readable by anyone ... so they can do a certain amount of tracking," Adida said.

Adida compared the ability to track individuals through RFID with how some clothing shops use tracking devices to know what their customers have purchased.

"At some Prada stores, customers who enter carrying their loyalty cards are automatically recognized with their complete profile available to customer service representatives. If you're a consenting customer, this is very useful stuff. But what if you found out that Banana Republic was using the Prada loyalty card to track you and your spending habits, too?" Adida said.

He added, "The important detail to note is that medical RFIDs are not much different from other RFIDs: their unique identifier is available to any reader in exactly the same way."

In terms of privacy, Halamka said that "it's unlikely someone would want to falsify your identity for medical treatment but likely they would try to intercept your credentials if monetary gain was possible."

Levine said he believes that physicians should not "bear sole responsibility for ensuring the safety of RFID devices."

RFID chips "do have to be monitored for inappropriate usage," but the databases containing patients' EHRs also have to be secure and interoperable, Levine said. He added, "The different databases in which this kind of information can be stored are not yet uniform in the sense of using the same data [and] the same definitions ... so having access to one database does not yet give easily transferable information."

Alternatives to RFID Chips

The current market of implantable RFID chips does not seem to give any indications whether they will become more or less widespread in the future, although pilot projects, including a two-year, 200-patient project with Alzheimer's Community Care in West Palm Beach, Fla., will continue testing their effectiveness.

Halamka said implantable RFIDs "may be useful for some people, but I suspect most people will use less invasive methods such as Web-based personal health records ... [or] placing their records on a thumb drive or wallet card or wearing a medical alert-type bracelet."

Levine added, "I could see as technology might advance, there might be more issues that would then require stronger policies regarding privacy, but at this point in time, I don't see the threat that perhaps others did."

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Neognosis

Which is probably why they need to conform to FCC guidlines, just like every other electronic device. there is NOTHING about having to get them for anyone, whatsoever.

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Corp

ever hear of the mark of the beast.

I have! I also know it have no relation to this topic at all.

Do you feel that "cranks like that person (who) disrupt the entire political system and the integrity of our republican(?) democracy" should be labeled as "more dangerous than terrorists" and perhaps, sent to prison or a re-education camp by the Federal Government?

...I think you set a world record with that leap of logic

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bc56

I have! I also know it have no relation to this topic at all.

...I think you set a world record with that leap of logic

na they still didn't beat the post saying i'm so much worse than a terrorist bc i posted on a forum

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Neognosis

No, you're not worse than a terrorist because you post on a forum. YOu're worse than a terrorist because you tell lies and spread misinformation that can cause irrational, gullible people to form erroneous opinions about important things.

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aquatus1

**ALL posters need to take a step back and calm down before they post.**

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Neognosis

I"m calm now. I just stand by the idea that people who spread innacurate rumors about important things that effect a lot of people ultimately do more damage than a terrorist attack.

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ShadowSot

na they still didn't beat the post saying i'm so much worse than a terrorist bc i posted on a forum

You are deliberately misrepresenting something to encourage open fear and paranoia.

A terrorist is so called because their actions causes terror.

At the very least, you are working on the same level, through different means. Or maybe you are simply repeating what someone else has told you, spreading the fear and nonsense.

*Edit, missed Aquatus' post. I'll keep my posts more to the topic.

Edited by ShadowSot

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President-Elect Acidhead

...I think you set a world record with that leap of logic

It was a question within a question intended for Neognosis to re-read what he said...

..so... bite me

Edited by acidhead

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danielost

Which is probably why they need to conform to FCC guidlines, just like every other electronic device. there is NOTHING about having to get them for anyone, whatsoever.

In other words not mandatory yet.

when the new healthcare systems goes into affect those on the system will then have to have them.

and i think most if not all pet clinics have readers for them. since they are already being used in cats and dogs.

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President-Elect Acidhead

I"m calm now. I just stand by the idea that people who spread innacurate rumors about important things that effect a lot of people ultimately do more damage than a terrorist attack.

Hmmmmmmmm....... i'm beginning to see the logic....

...like WMD in Iraq or the next attack might come in the form of a nuclear bomb --GW Bush

..there will be Marshall law in America 'if' the bailouts are not passed by Congress ----Henry Paulson

..carbon taxes or the planet will melt --Al Gore

...'We Need To Beat Taliban To Stop New 9/11' - ---Barack Obama in Phoenix, August 18th 2009

I agree with you fully Neognosis... these men are more dangerous than terrorists.

Edited by acidhead

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danielost

I have! I also know it have no relation to this topic at all.

...I think you set a world record with that leap of logic

1st acidhead and i are usually at odds with each other on here. so if we are agreeing with each other then there is probable a major problem in this.

The mark of the beast is called so because it was used on beasts first. in this cats and dogs.

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Neognosis

Without making commentary about hte political philosophies quoted, yes. Exactly. Add to that most of what talk show radio hosts say as well.

Edited by Neognosis

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Startraveler
Or maybe you are simply repeating what someone else has told you, spreading the fear and nonsense.

I think this is the case, given that a Google search reveals this post has appeared, verbatim, on several different discussion forums. I assume the original poster was just passing on something he heard somewhere else and wrongly assumed to be true. Indefensible but hopefully not malicious.

when the new healthcare systems goes into affect those on the system will then have to have them.

Absolutely false. I don't know of a clearer way to say this so I assume you just prefer obscurity.

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danielost

I think this is the case, given that a Google search reveals this post has appeared, verbatim, on several different discussion forums. I assume the original poster was just passing on something he heard somewhere else and wrongly assumed to be true. Indefensible but hopefully not malicious.

Absolutely false. I don't know of a clearer way to say this so I assume you just prefer obscurity.

how goes that volunteer social security number going. you know the one i had to go down to the office to get and now they give you one at birth.

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bc56

I think this is the case, given that a Google search reveals this post has appeared, verbatim, on several different discussion forums. I assume the original poster was just passing on something he heard somewhere else and wrongly assumed to be true. Indefensible but hopefully not malicious.

Absolutely false. I don't know of a clearer way to say this so I assume you just prefer obscurity.

www.abovetopsecret.com copy and paste, but people please stand up and cry, i want to hear how much chaos i'm causing all of thepeople hear. It seems like there is so much fear in this subject everyone is just so concerned.... can you sense the sarcasm. No one here is becoming chaotic or overwhelmingly fearful, its a post on a forum and to say i'm worst than a terroris or even anywhere close to them is ludacris

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Bill Hill

mirco chipped in the brain? Insane in the membrane

:lol:

Oh gawd, every time I laugh at these things, it actually happens. :cry:

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President-Elect Acidhead

how goes that volunteer social security number going. you know the one i had to go down to the office to get and now they give you one at birth.

yup...

When a westerner is born the parents name the child.

Once the child is employed by an employer or establishes a business the 'person' is issued its government tax number

Its a catch 22.... the 'person' cannot earn money legally without agreeing to this term.

Free healthcare for the poor will have a catch.... nothing is for free in the western world......... nothing.

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President-Elect Acidhead

www.abovetopsecret.com copy and paste, but people please stand up and cry, i want to hear how much chaos i'm causing all of thepeople hear. It seems like there is so much fear in this subject everyone is just so concerned.... can you sense the sarcasm. No one here is becoming chaotic or overwhelmingly fearful, its a post on a forum and to say i'm worst than a terroris or even anywhere close to them is ludacris

no... you are definitely Al-queda.... or worse.... a Ron Paul supporter.

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Mattshark

Well it cannot be denied that RFID chips are currently being implanted and tested.

Yes, they have been used in zoology for sometime now.

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bc56

no... you are definitely Al-queda.... or worse.... a Ron Paul supporter.

actually, i've heard and read about ron paul but have never actually known who he is or what he does but thx, now i have a reason to google the b****** and see what all the fuss is about

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President-Elect Acidhead

Yes, they have been used in zoology for sometime now.

Yes... pacific salmon and steelhead trout have been tagged with them for decades now.....

Human testing currently is happening as we speak........ http://www.ihealthbeat.org/Features/2007/Use-of-RFID-Implants-Low-Yet-Concerns-Still-Flourish.aspx

Edited by acidhead

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