Puma Punku

[Mattshark]

There will be no thruths for the masses. Anything 'discovered' will never contain truths of any value because anything of value is always withheld. From CNN to NASA, you can't trust anything they say at all that you couldn't deduce from simple facts that you or your neighbor is aware of.

So how many scientific papers have you read?

[TheSearcher]

The dates are not important really to my conjecture (and I firmly dispute them anyway).

The Sarsen and Bluestone at Stonehenge are displayed at the entrance to the site, and visitors are encouraged to touch them to feel the effect - it is very noticeable.

Your comment about the uranium in granite interests me though.

My main point also is this:

Is it feasible that the ancients had the time and resources to produce 'luxury architecture'?

I know that we do today. We produce 'folly architecture' and modern art as two examples. A lot of our architecture indicates an exhuberent culture where art and architecture sometimes merge. Is this likely that our ancients built things out of these sentiments, or is it more likely that to them architecture was far more practical and purposeful?

I tend toward the latter, but I will leave you to form your own judgements.

I think that the ancients had the time and resources to create what you call luxury architecture, but the notion itself is a product of our time. Look at the ancient constructions and you'll notice a merger of art, functionality and architecture. They might not have build out of the same sentiment as us, but the overall effect is the same. They are a product of different times and a different frame of reference as opposed to us.

Things we find, as you call it, architectural luxury, would have been something totally different to them. That's how I see it anyway. You can't compare the notions of our time with the notions of ancient times, as we and our way of thinking are a product of our respective times.

Edited September 2, 2009 by TheSearcher

[KennyB]

Zoser, The aliens that built all the megalithic structures did not see fit to inform their slaves (us) as to their motives. If you were hooking a horse to a wagon, would you explain to him why? They had powers we still don't understand. For one, they could cut, work and lift stones as if they were styrafoam. They didn't leave any information on how and why they did this. KennyB

[Abramelin]

Zoser, The aliens that built all the megalithic structures did not see fit to inform their slaves (us) as to their motives. If you were hooking a horse to a wagon, would you explain to him why? They had powers we still don't understand. For one, they could cut, work and lift stones as if they were styrafoam. They didn't leave any information on how and why they did this. KennyB

Why would these superior aliens need slaves?

[TheSearcher]

Why would these superior aliens need slaves?

Because Sitchin said so?

[Abramelin]

Exactly: because HE said so.

He was thinking along the lines we humans think.

If it were real aliens, he would have no clue at all about how they think.

[Lightingbird]

Very interesting place. I'm planning on visiting there next summer hopefully. Personally, I do not think aliens had anything to do with it. I think humans are far more able to do things that we can imagine. Although it is interesting.

[hortie]

Why would these superior aliens need slaves?

HEY HEY HEY who the hell DOESNT need slaves... lol really?

[hortie]

So how many scientific papers have you read?

How many of them have YOU read? And whos to say that these papers are 100% truth? That no one wanted to withhold information? And some science has been proven incorrect. In this particular case of Puma Punku its best guessing, and theories to determine how this city was created. Thus... mystery. Aliens? i dunno, possible, ancient civs being way more advanced than we think, sure whynot?

If you found a temple of gold would you say it never existed and keep the gold for yourself, or tell the world of the temple of gold and never see a penny? Never underestimate self motivations and fact changers in this coml;icated world.

Edited September 13, 2009 by hortie

[Abramelin]

HEY HEY HEY who the hell DOESNT need slaves... lol really?

Yeah, really.

You don't have an answer to that one, eh?

Superior aliens, with all those fancy anti-gravity machines with which they let huge rocks fly through the air...

Superior aliens who came from god knows what solar system.

Superior aliens, with an intelligence that makes us look like ants in comparisson.

"Beam me up, Scotty !!"

[TheSearcher]

Yeah, really.

You don't have an answer to that one, eh?

Superior aliens, with all those fancy anti-gravity machines with which they let huge rocks fly through the air...

Superior aliens who came from god knows what solar system.

Superior aliens, with an intelligence that makes us look like ants in comparisson.

"Beam me up, Scotty !!"

Erm "Beam me up, Scotty !!" that exact wording was actually never said in Star Trek, just for info.

And yes, if the aliens where technologically so superior, why would they need slaves. Robotic labor and machines are more efficient, easier to maintain and never require rest of any kind.

[Lightingbird]

Erm "Beam me up, Scotty !!" that exact wording was actually never said in Star Trek, just for info.

And yes, if the aliens where technologically so superior, why would they need slaves. Robotic labor and machines are more efficient, easier to maintain and never require rest of any kind.

Well I can think of many reasons why they might have needed slaves. The biggest reason is that, who knows how advanced they are exactly. Sure they can travel the stars but might not have the machines or robotics to do it for them. Maybe if they did it was damaged or something. Maybe they wanted to try and culture and help advance early man. I can think of many other reasons why they did this. Finally, why would they have to be slaves? They might have thought they were Gods.

[crystal sage]

thanks zoser for your kind words in the other thread.... much appreciated...

puma punku is indeed something outside the realm of our 'traditional' understanding

though all the anomalies are mind boggling... i find these artifacts... 'cant think of an adjective'

how did they achieve that????

havent checked the video links in this thread....

but here is another link.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy59Dk6hxPU skip to 6:39

cherio

More of the ancient poured concrete theories?

http://weeklyworldnews.com/alien-alert/6766/puma-punku/

and... some levitation theories..

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=25009&sid=cdf47a46fb7461d0b4593db458703be0

[questionmark]

Well I can think of many reasons why they might have needed slaves. The biggest reason is that, who knows how advanced they are exactly. Sure they can travel the stars but might not have the machines or robotics to do it for them. Maybe if they did it was damaged or something. Maybe they wanted to try and culture and help advance early man. I can think of many other reasons why they did this. Finally, why would they have to be slaves? They might have thought they were Gods.

In plain English: They most probably forgot their ACME super-build-it-all machine at home and had to borrow some bronze chisels and wood hammers from the locals. They also forgot their ACME super-levitation-machine and therefore had to borrow some slaves to carry the rocks around...who then built ramps to pile one stone on top of the other...

But the locals did not have the culture nor the knowledge to build such things...

ehm...did you come up with this all by yourself?

[Lightingbird]

In plain English: They most probably forgot their ACME super-build-it-all machine at home and had to borrow some bronze chisels and wood hammers from the locals. They also forgot their ACME super-levitation-machine and therefore had to borrow some slaves to carry the rocks around...who then built ramps to pile one stone on top of the other...

But the locals did not have the culture nor the knowledge to build such things...

ehm...did you come up with this all by yourself?

It was an assumption. Just like yours

[Mario Lemieux]

Very odd indeed. Among all the people trying to explain how humans did this, I have yet to see a way 440 ton blocks, with perfect drill holes, cut shapes, etc are put perfectly together, without a slight crack for a hair.

I'd have a hard time beliving given the tools they had at their time ( the ones we know of at least) that modern human beings could re-create such a feat. Much like the great pyramids.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Mario Lemieux

[Lightingbird]

Very odd indeed. Among all the people trying to explain how humans did this, I have yet to see a way 440 ton blocks, with perfect drill holes, cut shapes, etc are put perfectly together, without a slight crack for a hair.

I'd have a hard time beliving given the tools they had at their time ( the ones we know of at least) that modern human beings could re-create such a feat. Much like the great pyramids.

I agree with you. I'm just trying to be as logical as possible before I stick with the alien guess. Is there no way that early man could have drilled holes? Why would it be impossible to move those huge slabs with several hundred men? Is this just over all possible.

[Swede]

I agree with you. I'm just trying to be as logical as possible before I stick with the alien guess. Is there no way that early man could have drilled holes? Why would it be impossible to move those huge slabs with several hundred men? Is this just over all possible.

I applaud your approach. So let's put things to the test. And you can do this.

First, get to know your lithic materials (tech talk for rocks). They are not all the same. The hardness on the Mohs scale can vary significantly. Study this.

So, get your hands on some softer material, say limestone. And get a harder material. Maybe basalt or dolerite. Now start pecking away. Pick a hammerstone of a mass that you can manipulate without excessive fatigue. One to three pounds for experimental purposes. Select the "high points" on your subject material and reduce them. Bang, bang, bang. Whisk away the dust and continue. Do this for an hour or two. Yes, actual work! See what you've accomplished! Pretty cool! Now multiply this activity by hundreds or thousands of men working all day.

Drilling holes? Pick your primary material. Now, utilizing a harder lithic that has a fairly "fine" point (knapped or found), peck a depression into your primary material. It doesn't have to be too deep. 1/2 inch or so will do. Now get a hardwood branch or dowel of the approximate diameter you wish your hole to be. Round off the tip. Place a moist slurry of sand and water into the depression you have created. Place your dowel on top of the slurry and spin back and forth between your palms. Clean, adjust, repeat. There are a number of little tricks to this that you will learn along the way, but this should get you started.

So, I challenge you and some of the other posters. Apply the above on a small scale, experimental basis. And report back to the forum. I can rail on this all day, but "objective" and new experimenters will add a worthy dimension to the discussion.

Those who are not willing to put themselves to the effort of executing such experiments are in no position to postulate. And cheap excuses don't count.

[questionmark]

So, I challenge you and some of the other posters. Apply the above on a small scale, experimental basis. And report back to the forum. I can rail on this all day, but "objective" and new experimenters will add a worthy dimension to the discussion.

Those who are not willing to put themselves to the effort of executing such experiments are in no position to postulate. And cheap excuses don't count.

Heh...like they are really interested in seeing that it actually can be done...

[TheSearcher]

I applaud your approach. So let's put things to the test. And you can do this.

First, get to know your lithic materials (tech talk for rocks). They are not all the same. The hardness on the Mohs scale can vary significantly. Study this.

So, get your hands on some softer material, say limestone. And get a harder material. Maybe basalt or dolerite. Now start pecking away. Pick a hammerstone of a mass that you can manipulate without excessive fatigue. One to three pounds for experimental purposes. Select the "high points" on your subject material and reduce them. Bang, bang, bang. Whisk away the dust and continue. Do this for an hour or two. Yes, actual work! See what you've accomplished! Pretty cool! Now multiply this activity by hundreds or thousands of men working all day.

Drilling holes? Pick your primary material. Now, utilizing a harder lithic that has a fairly "fine" point (knapped or found), peck a depression into your primary material. It doesn't have to be too deep. 1/2 inch or so will do. Now get a hardwood branch or dowel of the approximate diameter you wish your hole to be. Round off the tip. Place a moist slurry of sand and water into the depression you have created. Place your dowel on top of the slurry and spin back and forth between your palms. Clean, adjust, repeat. There are a number of little tricks to this that you will learn along the way, but this should get you started.

So, I challenge you and some of the other posters. Apply the above on a small scale, experimental basis. And report back to the forum. I can rail on this all day, but "objective" and new experimenters will add a worthy dimension to the discussion.

Those who are not willing to put themselves to the effort of executing such experiments are in no position to postulate. And cheap excuses don't count.

That's the kind of stuff I used to come up with as a kid, since my dad would never let me use his tools, when I was a wee lad. As my dad would say : Try to come up with a good solution for the problem, try it and then show me. If I like it, you can use one of my tools." It was his way to teach me and my brother analytical thinking and to find solutions to any given problem with a minimum of tools.

We used different materials of course, but the idea stays the same. If you don't know, just try till you find a way it works. You'll most likely found the way the ancients did it.

[mcrom901]

More of the ancient poured concrete theories?

http://weeklyworldnews.com/alien-alert/6766/puma-punku/

and... some levitation theories..

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=25009&sid=cdf47a46fb7461d0b4593db458703be0

[Swede]

questionmark and Searcher - Yes, the basic realities of past cultures do seem difficult for some to accept. As I've mentioned in a post of some time ago, modern cultures do not always acknowledge the labor-intense aspects of prior periods and their combination with different temporal viewpoints. Use what you've got and set to work. If it takes six months (or whatever), so be it. Time clocks were remarkably scarce!

And, as you roughly allude to Searcher, experimental archaeology can be most revealing/insightful. As an example, to speed hole drilling, combine the process described above with the application of a bow drill. Quite a surprising improvement in efficiency utilizing documented technology. Nothing real shocking about it.

[Lightingbird]

I applaud your approach. So let's put things to the test. And you can do this.

First, get to know your lithic materials (tech talk for rocks). They are not all the same. The hardness on the Mohs scale can vary significantly. Study this.

So, get your hands on some softer material, say limestone. And get a harder material. Maybe basalt or dolerite. Now start pecking away. Pick a hammerstone of a mass that you can manipulate without excessive fatigue. One to three pounds for experimental purposes. Select the "high points" on your subject material and reduce them. Bang, bang, bang. Whisk away the dust and continue. Do this for an hour or two. Yes, actual work! See what you've accomplished! Pretty cool! Now multiply this activity by hundreds or thousands of men working all day.

Drilling holes? Pick your primary material. Now, utilizing a harder lithic that has a fairly "fine" point (knapped or found), peck a depression into your primary material. It doesn't have to be too deep. 1/2 inch or so will do. Now get a hardwood branch or dowel of the approximate diameter you wish your hole to be. Round off the tip. Place a moist slurry of sand and water into the depression you have created. Place your dowel on top of the slurry and spin back and forth between your palms. Clean, adjust, repeat. There are a number of little tricks to this that you will learn along the way, but this should get you started.

So, I challenge you and some of the other posters. Apply the above on a small scale, experimental basis. And report back to the forum. I can rail on this all day, but "objective" and new experimenters will add a worthy dimension to the discussion.

Those who are not willing to put themselves to the effort of executing such experiments are in no position to postulate. And cheap excuses don't count.

Deal I think I will try this. I'll update when I get the stones.

[Lightingbird]

Not going to lie. Everytime I look at these images, it is an amazing thing to look at. The reality is that either this is man made in a way that would probably surprise most or it was something else. That something else being, well...

[Swede]

Deal I think I will try this. I'll update when I get the stones.

Great! We will await to hear of your accomplishments. Use good science. Document, document, document. Material types, weights, shapes, time, depth of material removed, etc., etc.

Have fun!