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Lottie

US should adopt same human rights standards as the

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thebarman
Again I apologize if I offended anyone, it was a poor attempt at humor.

later

SC

Seriously SC I'm not offended, once you had said it was a sarcastic comment I apologised.

I had thought when I first read it that it could be written sarcastically but the opening line-

"I know I'll get slammed for this"

led me to believe that it was serious, without this statement the whole post then has a sarcastic tone.

But you're right we're well off topic now so this is the last I'll mention of it

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stillcrazy

Seriously SC I'm not offended, once you had said it was a sarcastic comment I apologised.

No need,

subject closed.

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KayEl

A great deal of the resentment against the US from the middle east stems from the constant meddling and support Israel recieve from the states while they ethnically cleanse the Palistinians
.

Perhaps it is because Palestinians are blowing themselves up along with the Israels?

Your view on this is exactly my point. If Israel was located in Europe and all these European countries are hostile toward them, we would be crying racism and anti-semitism. But it is the Middle East. Their brand of anti-semitism is excused. Oh that's right. Only Whites can be racist. We are so against South Africa's practice of apartheid, where is the outrage toward the Middle East's intolerance toward everybody whose do not share their culture and religion? It is one thing if they keep it to themselves, but to carry it over to other countries?

The heterosexual white man is not the enemy, as the radical feminists, gay rights, and PC liberals like you to think.

And get one thing straight here: Israel never attacked. They reacted. They have a right to defend themselves. If the Palestinians behave, Israel wil not need to "cleanse" them. Then again, like other Arab countries were so kind to the Palestinian to begin with.

Once again, some skulls are thicker than others.

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Seraphina

Perhaps it is because Palestinians are blowing themselves up along with the Israels?

Perhaps because the Iraelis are occupying their country, have violated more human rights laws than Iraq, and the Palestinians want them out? I'm not excusing the acts of terrorism from a group that is an extreme minority....but it does not justify the acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing being carried out under the order of the Iraeli government and military. My point of veiw has nothing to do with them being Jewish (I'm not all that fond of the Islamic religion...fundamentalist as it is, I see it as being quite dangerous), but from what I see of their treatment of their neighbours.

Your view on this is exactly my point.

And your veiw is a perfect example of the sound bites and political jargon revailing in the states that leads to much of the resentment they recieve. Earlier this week, Israil blatantly violated the geneva convention...when the Palistinian government asked for help from the US (the self appointed mediators in this affair) they recieved half hearted voices of concern, and no action whatsoever.

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KayEl

What Palestinian lands?

Israel is not occupying any lands that belongs to the Palestinians. Let's get that point straight first. There was never any Palestinian state. If your definition of a Palestinian state is that the Palestinian just happened to be living there, then Jordan should be a Palestinian state. But no, they threw hundred and thousands of them out of the country.

That is okay. Of course, it is okay for them to eat each other.

And why shouldn't the Palestinian recieved half hearted repsonse from the US. Every time Israel want to talk peace, some nutjob Palestinian have to blow himself up. Palestinian do not want peace. They want Israel out of there. The Israelis are willing to let the Palestinian live in their country providing they behave themselves.

And your veiw is a perfect example of the sound bites and political jargon revailing in the states that leads to much of the resentment they recieve.

Huh? Please elaborate what resentment directed at whom and from whom.

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Stamford

Every time Israel want to talk peace, some nutjob Palestinian have to blow himself up. Palestinian do not want peace. They want Israel out of there. The Israelis are willing to let the Palestinian live in their country providing they behave themselves.

Whilst I agree that their are elements amongst the Pallestinians who will never accept Israel and will continue their bombing of civilians, this is a two edged sword.

The Israelis shelled a protest march yesterday, killing at least 10 people, many of whom were children.

I have also just read the report of two children shot in the head whilst feeding birds on their roof.

This is way off topic, true, but I cannot sit here and read the kind of one-sided rubbish that is constantly spouted about how the pallestinians bring this on themselves; however, after reading most of your thinly-veiled rascism KayEl, why am I suprised?

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wunarmdscissor

here here stamford

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stillcrazy

This is way off topic, true, but I cannot sit here and read the kind of one-sided rubbish that is constantly spouted about how the pallestinians bring this on themselves; however, after reading most of your thinly-veiled rascism KayEl, why am I suprised?

here here stamford

Agreed.

It seems that The U.S. gets knocked alot for it's human rights violations, but little is said about Israel's consistent terror tactics against the palastinian people.

I think Kayel, your forget that Israel, had no claim to the land either. They had to form a jewish state.

The biggest problem I see in the middle east, is that human life is worthless according to the two predominate religious cultures. The hate between the Jews and the Muslims goes back two thousand years. Toss in the U.S. which was founded on Christian ideals, and you'll never have any peace.

What it boils down to in it's simplest terms, as long as you have three religions claiming it's okay to kill in the name of god, there will never be a day of peace on the entire planet.

BTW just to stay on topic, the sadistic acts of a few, in any country, does not give anyone the right to condemn the entire people of said country. Every tree as it's bad fruit, but does not make the rest of the fruit garbage.

Later

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KayEl

after reading most of your thinly-veiled rascism KayEl, why am I suprised?

Hey, it is not my fault that these nutcases happened to be "non-white". It would be like during World War 2...we can't fight the Japanese, it would be racist to do so. Of course, those who are confronted with the ugly truth are often the first to cry racism in order to deflect.

Edited by KayEl

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Fluffybunny
Hey, it is not my fault that these nutcases happened to be "non-white".

From my point of view, there are "nutcases" of all colors in your neighborhood.

You have a unique perspective in that you are in Israel and have been educated there. I can understand how you would come to your opinions of Palestinians, but it appears to me that the fault lies on both sides of the fence.

I have no idea how to fix it, but I don't think anyone in the area can claim morale high ground...

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Stamford

Of course, those who are confronted with the ugly truth are often the first to cry racism in order to deflect.

Hmmm, seems to me Israel defends its actions by demonising all Palestinians as terrorists.

The simple fact is that, with the exception of a few, the US and UK forces in Iraq have behaved impeccably; the same cannot be said of Israel's.

Once again, sorry this is off-topic, but how anyone can defend shooting children is beyond me.

Sure, maybe terrorists carry out attacks against Israeli Security Forces from refugee camps and thus put innocent civilans at risk; sure, Pallestinian children do throw rocks at Israeli Tanks. The same thing happened to us in Northern Ireland, but we didn't respond by levelling whole neighbourhoods and shelling marchers.

I levied the rascist comment at you becuase on numerous occassions your posts are simply that...sorry but if the shoe fits....

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stillcrazy

Stamford,

thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif

Very well stated.

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Mekorig

just a note.

I know thanks to a very secure source (a friend of mine that lives in Israel because of work) that the isreali palestinians are trated like 2nd class citizen, whit less oportunities of higher education, work or living condition....if that is the multicultural democracy that Kyel says that exist in Israel..... whistling2.gif

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stillcrazy

Mekorig, this is nothing new, and it's not just Israel. Many countries like germany, france india, Saudia Arabia, and a whole long list of other countries do likewise.

Again, it's nothing new.

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wunarmdscissor
thumbsup.gif Again stamford well put thumbsup.gif

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KayEl

Once again, sorry this is off-topic, but how anyone can defend shooting children is beyond me.

Like Israeli children were not killed as a result of terorrists.

As for racism...

What if Nick Berg was Black and the three men cutting his head off were White?

That would be no doubt that the world would be crying for blood.

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Seraphina

Like Israeli children were not killed as a result of terorrists.

True, Israeli children ARE killed by acts of terrorism from an extremist minority in Palistine, lashing out at the hostile occupation of their land.

They are not killed by the order of the Palistinian government. They are not killed by a brutal, tyranical, ruthless military under the control of that government, which seems to be hell bent on slaughtering everyone in the locality who isn't of the same relgion as they are.

The violence from Palistine is a minority...the violence from Israeli is government supported, military enacted, indiscriminate, and barbaric. The only difference between terrorists on one side, and terrorists on the other is that one side uses bombs, the other side users tanks and helicopter gunships.

Our opinion of the situation in the middle east has nothing to do with race, colour, religion, or anything else....the fact that you keep screaming about it suggest you care far more about the colour of someone's skin than we do.

Edited by Seraphina

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bathory

i was under the impression that Arafat had links to most of those extermist groups?

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KayEl

Exactly, Bathory!

Seraphina, Israel is not occupying Palestinian land. It never belongs to them to begin. And furthermore, Israel is not hostile toward the Palestinian until they started terrorist attacks.

The Palestinians attacks Israel first. Israel is at fault for giving them as good as they gave (and then some, when you attack someone unprovoked, you deserved ten times what you dish out!).

Our opinion of the situation in the middle east has nothing to do with race, colour, religion, or anything else....the fact that you keep screaming about it suggest you care far more about the colour of someone's skin than we do.

You are hiding your head in the sand if you think that a lot of people are reluctant to speak out and act against the Middle East because they will be labeled racists.

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Seraphina

Seraphina, Israel is not occupying Palestinian land. It never belongs to them to begin.

It certainly didn't belong to the Irailis. They had to create a jewish state after land was handed to them (and was, by the way, taken from the Palistinians) Palistine may not have been a recognised country, but it was a recognised protectorate. Israel stole their land from them, simple as that, and are now killing them.

The Palestinians attacks Israel first. Israel is at fault for giving them as good as they gave (and then some, when you attack someone unprovoked, you deserved ten times what you dish out!).

How is Israel justified in slaughtering innocent men woman and children who have commited no crime whatsoever for the acts of an extremist minority!? Did Britain ride in to Ireland and randomly shoot people in the streets for acts of terrorism from the IRA?

I'm not supporting acts of terrorism...in my opinion, terrorists should be killed...however, they should not be used as an excuse to brutally murder civilians, which in turn simply creates more and more terrorists wanting revenge.

I'm very tired of this rosy, innocent picture that continues to be painted of Israel...at least the violence from Palistine comes in the form of a few extremists, the violence from Israel is directly from the military and government. It makes my head spin that some people see justification in a supposed democratic power, backed by the United States, slaughtering civilians in droves in the hope of killing the one peson out of a thousand that they're looking for.

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Stamford

As for racism...

What if Nick Berg was Black and the three men cutting his head off were White?

That would be no doubt that the world would be crying for blood.

What are you on about KayEl?

I couldn't care less if the man was pink, blue or green!!

What happened to him was horrific and I think the whole world would have been revulsed by what they saw whatever his colour.

Just so happens I am also horrified by the deaths of innocent children, whose pitiful existances warrent little column inches because we are bombarded by them so much they are begining to lose their meaning.

I think that while their are questionable acts being commited in Iraq, they are small change in comparison to what the Israelis are doing.

I think if the US and UK behaved this way we would be even more demonised than we already are; I find it ironic that it is the US's blind support of Israel that allows them to continue to flaut the UN and the Geneavor Convention on a daily basis.

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KayEl

...at least the violence from Palistine comes in the form of a few extremists, the violence from Israel is directly from the military and government.

Seraphina, terrorists do not walk around with signs that said they are terorrists. And don't talk to me about the innocent children, the ones who throw rocks and grow up to hate Israel and the West. Better kill them now than let them grow up and kill us later. Sounds harsh, these people have no respect for life, thus we will show them the same.

And it makes MY head spin that you do not realize that it is the military and the Israeli government's DUTY to protect their citizens at whatever the cost!

Palestine do not want peace. If they do it would have happened already.

I couldn't care less if the man was pink, blue or green!!

And Stamford, kudos to you that you couldn't care less. But unfortunately what I said is the truth. If the killers were White, there would no conspiracy theories about the video being fake, and there will be an effort you wouldn't believe to track them down. There will be no attempt to "understand" their motivations.

I haven't seen this video, but I recommend that everybody watch it. It will remind you just what we are dealing with here. These people do not deserve civility. They are a hateful lot that has contributed nothing to the world except heartbroken families.

Edited by KayEl

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Stamford

Better kill them now than let them grow up and kill us later.

It would appear that there is no hope then if that is your attitude to the situation; still, at least we now see that you not only condone the killing of children, but actually support it.

Seems to me that both sides are guilty of programming their children to hate.

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Falco Rex

I haven't seen this video, but I recommend that everybody watch it

I have seen it, and trust me, everybody shouldn't see it..It's the single most disturbing thing I've ever watched and I'll never forget it. While I admit that it makes me want to kill the men who were a part of such a despicable act, I don't see how this adds up in your mind to justify wholesale slaughter in the Middle-East..

Killing someone "before" they can become a terrorist is just as bad as being a terrorist. If we want to be percieved as moral paragons it's up to us to act the part,not become worse than the enemy we fight..

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KayEl

And that what the terrorists are counting on....

They are hoping that they will attack and we will stay our hands because, boo hoo hoo...they are oppressed and we have to understand that they have a differnent religion and cultural values than we do.

Baloney.

I don't care what religion you belonged to or what belief system you subscribe to. The moment they started to infringe on my safety and the safety of my fellow citizens, I draw the line.

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