EMF readings *question*

[She-ra]

Hello Paranormal Investigators- I have a question for my fellow ghost hunters out there.

When doing an EMF sweep of a room, at what point would you say a reading is no longer paranormal but crosses into the *seriously high EMF* category? ((that which induces paranoid fellings and so forth))

For instance, let's say we are investigating a room that hovers around .9 to 2.5 - then spikes out at about 10... would you all still consider that paranormal or has that then crossed the line into EMF disturbances from the home?

Obviously, going into a room that immediately reads 20- 30- 40- 50- and higher is nothing paranormal.

So, I guess my question is... at what point (reading on the emf) does the paranormal stop and the interference begin? If the increase is gradual (versus a spike) would that be considered a strong paranormal reading?

I hope someone can help me out here Now I have to leave but will be back in a couple hours!! Thank you♥

[sinewave]

Sorry to be a wet blanket She-Ra but the EMF thing is one of my biggest issues with paranormal investigations so this probably is not what you want to hear.

To make any meaningful determinations about EMF you really have to know what is normal for the location and what things will effect the levels at any moment. There are just too many variables and possible sources natural and man made to consider and control out. You could be picking up noise from a transformer just outside or a thunderstorm 100 miles away. You just never know. I would not consider any EMF to be paranormal evidence on its own. There is just not enough information from a simple hand held meter to make that call.

As far as EMF making people uneasy or causing physical maladies or discomfort as often stated by the TAPS team, there is simply NO medical evidence to support the claims. People work around large EM fields all the time without any il-effects. Negative reports do not come from reputable science but from alarmists and psudoscientists who feel there is a conspiracy to suppress the real evidence. We all are subjected to waves of natural and man-made EMF every day. For ghost hunters there is no practical (inexpensive) way to isolate and identify the fields encountered on a daily basis.

Edited September 8, 2009 by sinewave

[She-ra]

Thanks sinewave

Anyone else have any thoughts??

[sinewave]

Sorry She-ra. Now I've gone and spoiled it for you. I promise to shut up next time. <scurries away>

[cryptocabra]

well im new to investigating but id say if it moves or hovers in midair its paranormal but i dont know good luck

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

Shera,

You have to take into consideration... are you near a elcetrical outlet? Are you gettin this spiked reading near a pipe, or light fixture or other source of conductivity that puts out emf...

When your standing in the center of a room and you have a base reading of green (as the K2 meter has lights), and then it spikes all the way up to red, and you havent moved, and this occurs after calling your departed loved one you sense being near... Id say that is paranormal and not electrical. And it continues to do so as your asking questions... then its the real deal!

[She-ra]

Ohhhh I get to use the multiquote function! Yay!

Sorry She-ra. Now I've gone and spoiled it for you. I promise to shut up next time. <scurries away>

Ummm what did ya spoil??

well im new to investigating but id say if it moves or hovers in midair its paranormal but i dont know good luck

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thanks for that I will note it: *if it hovers mid-air, it is paranormal* okay got it

Shera,

You have to take into consideration... are you near a elcetrical outlet? Are you gettin this spiked reading near a pipe, or light fixture or other source of conductivity that puts out emf...

When your standing in the center of a room and you have a base reading of green (as the K2 meter has lights), and then it spikes all the way up to red, and you havent moved, and this occurs after calling your departed loved one you sense being near... Id say that is paranormal and not electrical. And it continues to do so as your asking questions... then its the real deal!

Right I get that hun... my question, with regards to a numbered EMF deterctor (not a KII meter) is at what point would a number be considered not paranormal. For instance because I don't think I am explaining this too well... say I have done the base readings of the room and everything checks out okay. Then I am actually investigating...and the number moves from say a .5 to .9 to 1.3 to 2.3 and so on... so it is actually starting to move higher... (normal paranormal stuff) BUT WHAT if it gets as high as 8.1 or 9.5 and 10.3?? That would typically be the start of outside interference right? So, during an instance like this, would that be MAJOR paranormal stuff or would it be like "oh crap" we found interfenece that we didn't catch at the onset of the investigation? Am I explaining myself ok here? Sheesh... sorry if I am being confusing

[cpjason]

It's more about change than the numbers. If I am standing still and I get a spike and then it gets lower again, that is paranormal assuming I have ruled out natural or normal sources of EMF already.

I use them to debunk mostly, not to find activity. I spend 90 percent of the time going around the walls to see where the wiring goes etc so I don't get any false readings.

Edited September 9, 2009 by cpjason

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

It's more about change than the numbers. If I am standing still and I get a spike and then it gets lower again, that is paranormal assuming I have ruled out natural or normal sources of EMF already.

I use them to debunk mostly, not to find activity. I spend 90 percent of the time going around the walls to see where the wiring goes etc so I don't get any false readings.

Exactly...

There is more to take into conssideration then the spike....It boils down to Did it spike because of wiring etc or paranormal...

If your not moving and it spikes from a .5 to 9 or 10, especially after asking is anyone here""come here" my bet is paranormal....

[OKGH]

EMF, to me, is more of an indicator and less of a precise science like you're asking for Shera.

I had that same question for quite a while, kindof a "black letter law" cutoff point for seeing paranormality in the EMFs. The other respondents have covered it pretty well, but to condense into a general rule:

Gauge the area. Get a feeling for the general level of EMF just floating around the room. Lets say it's 1 for ease. Note the consistent spike points (obvious stuff that produces EMF, sockets, electronic equipment, etc). Then the "art" of the EMF kicks in. As was said, a hovering/moving/responsive (if you're lucky) EMF is an *indicator* of paranormal activity (never proof). If you get a spike from 1 to suddenly 50, then it dissipates, then you might want to click on the recorder and do some EVP etc. There is, however, no set number unfortunately.

Always remember, EMF is ranked slightly higher than orb photos as far as quality of evidence on its own. It *really* needs corroborating evidence to be very useful. At least in my opinion.

As far as the fear cage discussion, I tend to agree it may be more hype than science. I can't completely discount, however, that some people are far more sensitive to high EMF and whether psychosomatically or actually have a response physically or mentally. Is it going to give you cancer? No (and I think thats where the science kicks in, for a long time people felt that living near high voltage power lines [and the resulting EMF] caused cancer or other serious diseases... this was pretty seriously debunked by science). But, again, one cannot discount the potential short term effects in specific people.

[sinewave]

It's more about change than the numbers. If I am standing still and I get a spike and then it gets lower again, that is paranormal assuming I have ruled out natural or normal sources of EMF already.

I use them to debunk mostly, not to find activity. I spend 90 percent of the time going around the walls to see where the wiring goes etc so I don't get any false readings.

A power surge or spike hitting a nearby utility transformer could give you momentary EM spike. How would you account for that? If you are only using a hand held meter you cannot by any stretch of reason attribute an EMF spike to anything paranormal.

Edited September 10, 2009 by sinewave

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

A power surge or spike hitting a nearby utility transformer could give you momentary EM spike. How would you account for that? If you are only using a hand held meter you cannot by any stretch of reason attribute an EMF spike to anything paranormal.

Oh yes, you sure can... When youve done it enough to feel them with out tany extra visual help... you can tell when it is there... It helps having the visual so others can see that way too...

It really does work, but as weve all been saying, there are some out side interferrences and you have to be aware of them.

[Pauly Dangerously]

In truth, it's just a tool that can give an investigator a sense of whether or not they want to stay in a certain area or move on. As Sinewave said, it is an impractical tool for the job, but only in so much that you are using it to say to a certainty that something is in the area. It's use is based mostly on the theory that A: Spirits exist and B: Said spirit disturbs or creates an electro magnetic field. Not exactly a great theory, but it's what people believe.

ETA: Rather basic spelling corrections.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Paul Noise

[She-ra]

Okay great Thanks for all the excellent feedback!! I will keep all of that in mind

[sinewave]

Oh yes, you sure can... When youve done it enough to feel them with out tany extra visual help... you can tell when it is there... It helps having the visual so others can see that way too...

It really does work, but as weve all been saying, there are some out side interferrences and you have to be aware of them.

So intuition plus an ambiguous physical measurement is confirmation enough? That is a pretty low standard of proof.

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

So intuition plus an ambiguous physical measurement is confirmation enough? That is a pretty low standard of proof.

No not intuition in this, a ""physical sense"" of feeling them there..... backed up by a spiikes on the meter.... even in response to questions asked.

The meter helps as a back up to show it, or whats being felt as well....

[sinewave]

No not intuition in this, a ""physical sense"" of feeling them there..... backed up by a spiikes on the meter.... even in response to questions asked.

The meter helps as a back up to show it, or whats being felt as well....

A feeling is intuition and entirely dependent on your perception therefore not valid as scientific data in this application. An EMF spike can originate from any one of a thousand different sources that are likely not being controlled out of your measurements. No effort is usually made to determine the field type (AC or DC), the frequency of the field, the direction to the source, the size of the field (was it indeed local or part of a large wave that passed through the area). I am not saying you are not detecting paranormal entities. I am saying you cannot be so sure that you are.

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

A feeling is intuition and entirely dependent on your perception therefore not valid as scientific data in this application. An EMF spike can originate from any one of a thousand different sources that are likely not being controlled out of your measurements. No effort is usually made to determine the field type (AC or DC), the frequency of the field, the direction to the source, the size of the field (was it indeed local or part of a large wave that passed through the area). I am not saying you are not detecting paranormal entities. I am saying you cannot be so sure that you are.

I totally understand what your saying....

And in this I do mean """PHYSICALLY """ felt the presence... the sourounding build up of pressure up my arm and the release when He was told to "let go" and release... Physical.... not intuitive, physical.

This was ""backed up"" by the meter....

other then this we are on the same page here...

[sinewave]

I know you are clear on my point and I respect your spiritual beliefs. You may agree that physical sensations are just as easily imagined as those of sight and sound. Everybody has been momentarily fooled by their perception from time to time. Maybe what you felt was real, I don't know. As a scientist, when you temper the observations with the fact that everyone's perception is flawed and shaped by their beliefs, then add to that the relatively undisciplined use of the EMF meter, the probability of this being valid evidence drops substantially. It may well be valid but the numbers say otherwise.

[randomhit10]

Hello Paranormal Investigators- I have a question for my fellow ghost hunters out there.

When doing an EMF sweep of a room, at what point would you say a reading is no longer paranormal but crosses into the *seriously high EMF* category? ((that which induces paranoid fellings and so forth))

For instance, let's say we are investigating a room that hovers around .9 to 2.5 - then spikes out at about 10... would you all still consider that paranormal or has that then crossed the line into EMF disturbances from the home?

Obviously, going into a room that immediately reads 20- 30- 40- 50- and higher is nothing paranormal.

So, I guess my question is... at what point (reading on the emf) does the paranormal stop and the interference begin? If the increase is gradual (versus a spike) would that be considered a strong paranormal reading?

I hope someone can help me out here Now I have to leave but will be back in a couple hours!! Thank you♥

hi She-ra....i wish i could help you on this but i am horrifically ignorant on emf protocals...but i will look into it and see if i can come up with some info that might help......

randomhit10

[WARRIOR FOR THE LIGHT]

I know you are clear on my point and I respect your spiritual beliefs. You may agree that physical sensations are just as easily imagined as those of sight and sound. Everybody has been momentarily fooled by their perception from time to time. Maybe what you felt was real, I don't know. As a scientist, when you temper the observations with the fact that everyone's perception is flawed and shaped by their beliefs, then add to that the relatively undisciplined use of the EMF meter, the probability of this being valid evidence drops substantially. It may well be valid but the numbers say otherwise.

I can totally agree with you after spending a couple years here n this site. You meet all kinds and shapes...

However Im about as normal as they come... lol 45 yrs old married 10, with him 13... and a EMS , Police dispatcher for 10 yrs... Pretty stable and boring... huh? lol.

Check out my blog if ya get a chance...

Blessings

[sinewave]

You certainly don't have to be nuts to see things but it helps.

[sam12six]

Sorry to be a wet blanket She-Ra but the EMF thing is one of my biggest issues with paranormal investigations so this probably is not what you want to hear.

To make any meaningful determinations about EMF you really have to know what is normal for the location and what things will effect the levels at any moment. There are just too many variables and possible sources natural and man made to consider and control out. You could be picking up noise from a transformer just outside or a thunderstorm 100 miles away. You just never know. I would not consider any EMF to be paranormal evidence on its own. There is just not enough information from a simple hand held meter to make that call.

I'll be an even wetter blanket. At this point, there is no scientific evidence that hauntings of any type are authentic. Before anyone jumps me for saying that, I've had an experience and I believe, but I also accept that my experience is only evidence for me.

Unless and until some technology can verifiably measure a spirit (and this would mean some clear scientific evidence that they exist), ghosts are paranormal - they aren't addressed in any way by science. The concept exists totally outside the realm of science.

This means you can make up your own rules and protocols for investigating. This is what everyone in the field does unless someone else gets them into the field or otherwise "takes them under wing", then they adopt the mentor's protocols.

As far as EMF making people uneasy or causing physical maladies or discomfort as often stated by the TAPS team, there is simply NO medical evidence to support the claims. People work around large EM fields all the time without any il-effects. Negative reports do not come from reputable science but from alarmists and psudoscientists who feel there is a conspiracy to suppress the real evidence. We all are subjected to waves of natural and man-made EMF every day. For ghost hunters there is no practical (inexpensive) way to isolate and identify the fields encountered on a daily basis.

I had to install a network jack next to the magnet of a an MRI unit (a bad place for it, but that was the only free wall space the room had). I don't know the actual gauss of the field it was putting out, but the techs said I should take off my watch and cell phone and leave them somewhere before crossing the "big red line". They said crossing the line with electronic equipment was a pretty automatic trip to replace said equipment (and crossing that line is also a near-certain death sentence for someone with a pacemaker).

I could only work for stretches of a couple of minutes before I would get light-headed and literally drop my tools. 10 minutes outside and I'd be OK to work for a couple of minutes again. Afterward, the techs told me only some people even feel the field and the results of what they feel are nearly random.

Granted, my experience is anecdotal and as subject to tricks of the mind as any other personal experience, but according to the MRI techs, the EMF field clearly affects some people, there's just no way of predicting ahead of time whether it will, or what they will feel. Now, keep in mind that 2 feet from the business end of an MRI unit is an EMF field that's probably thousands of times what someone will ever encounter in the "real world".

As I said before, the entire field of paranormal study is outside the realm of science, making it pseudoscience at the best.

[sinewave]

EMF from an MRI machine is many orders of magnitude beyond what most people would experience even in industrial settings. At those gauss levels yes, bad things can happen. My comments were in reference to EM fields associated with common sources. MRI's excluded.

Edited September 11, 2009 by sinewave

[sinewave]

A network jack next to an MRI? I can't believe that would work at all with the MRI running. The flux from a simple florescent ballast is usually enough to be a show stopper. The MRI might even be able to blow out transceivers.

Edited September 11, 2009 by sinewave