Ouija board-Talking to a friend in Hell

[Big Chief]

Haha. You people on this site are hilarious. It puzzles me how some people would go to great lenghts to try to disprove of someone because the persons beliefs are not concurrent where theirs. Again, the friend of mines who gave me the story was not religious and is really still not religious today. He had no religious beliefs before dabbling in the ouija board... He's not even from this country... Lady Ame, the things you accuse Ms. Tissy of, you are guilty of yourself. You said Hel is some godess. That is your beliefs. Just because Ms. Tissy's beliefs are not concurrent with yours does not make her a liar. There are many atheist on the web and youtube that have re-counted near death experiences and many of their experiences were not pretty. They didn't believe in God, afterlife, hell or anything. What they saw changed their minds about life altogether. They had no belief in hell or a afterlife but what they saw changed their minds. I guess they were going crazy too.. I can link you to some of their videos but you will probably say that they were really Christians afterall trying to manipulate people into Christianity... I still don't know what my story has to do with religion. "Heaven", "Hell", "God/higher power", "Devil/Ruler of Darkness" "Angels of light", "Demons of darkness" were all written about before the Bible or any other religion came along. Those are not Christian or religious concepts. They were well written and believed by many before the first Bible was ever printed..

[Agent. Mulder]

Just noting I've read the response post but am not able to respond presently.

OP, please don't get upset, that isn't the intent, I'm not trying to "scare you", I'm 36 years old, you move a bit beyond that - well, some do.

. . . "nut... huggers"?

"your nuts". My nuts? What about my nuts. Only squirrels have nuts.

But will continue later unless someone beats me to the good full explanation though Mulder was worrying me.

wait. what was i worrying you about?

[Agent. Mulder]

Haha. You people on this site are hilarious. It puzzles me how some people would go to great lenghts to try to disprove of someone because the persons beliefs are not concurrent where theirs. Again, the friend of mines who gave me the story was not religious and is really still not religious today. He had no religious beliefs before dabbling in the ouija board... He's not even from this country... Lady Ame, the things you accuse Ms. Tissy of, you are guilty of yourself. You said Hel is some godess. That is your beliefs. Just because Ms. Tissy's beliefs are not concurrent with yours does not make her a liar. There are many atheist on the web and youtube that have re-counted near death experiences and many of their experiences were not pretty. They didn't believe in God, afterlife, hell or anything. What they saw changed their minds about life altogether. They had no belief in hell or a afterlife but what they saw changed their minds. I guess they were going crazy too.. I can link you to some of their videos but you will probably say that they were really Christians afterall trying to manipulate people into Christianity... I still don't know what my story has to do with religion. "Heaven", "Hell", "God/higher power", "Devil/Ruler of Darkness" "Angels of light", "Demons of darkness" were all written about before the Bible or any other religion came along. Those are not Christian or religious concepts. They were well written and believed by many before the first Bible was ever printed..

near death experiences are bullcrap.

and you dont have to believe in hell or heaven to envision it, you just have to know it. thats some very flawed logic of yours.

the power of the imagination is immense and can change many peoples views on what they Think, they 'saw'. it doesnt lend any credence to their story because they imagined something, then became religious. many people succumb to religion for a variety of things.

and those Are christian concepts. even though other people believed in these things first. just because you believe in something that other people did before, doesnt mean its not a concept/beleif of yours of your teaching.

[OKGH]

OK so, here's a flip side question for all the hardcore believers:

Why do you come here and do these long, semi-literate, and actively psychotic posts about whatever you felt like making up today? What is the purpose? Are you trying to convert people into a world of terrifying fear and paranoia? Are you trying to scare us into loving God and going to church? Are you just making fun of us by getting us to waste our time and then bashing us repeatedly? Or, alternatively (and far more terrifying than a made up version of a non-existent place) do you *actually and truly* believe what you are writing?

[Big Chief]

near death experiences are bullcrap.

and you dont have to believe in hell or heaven to envision it, you just have to know it. thats some very flawed logic of yours.

the power of the imagination is immense and can change many peoples views on what they Think, they 'saw'. it doesnt lend any credence to their story because they imagined something, then became religious. many people succumb to religion for a variety of things.

and those Are christian concepts. even though other people believed in these things first. just because you believe in something that other people did before, doesnt mean its not a concept/beleif of yours of your teaching.

Near-death experiences are bullcrap?? So I guess all the millions of people in the world throughout the years that have spoken and written about their near death experiences are all liars. Even atheist have had near-death experiences. Near-death experiences are not limited to religious people. Search the web and see for yourself.... There are doctors and scientist that have been studying this for years. All people are susceptible to near-death experiences.

If I wrote a book 5000 years ago about the devil and hell and it was the belief of my peoples 5000 years ago. Then all of a sudden a man comes along, discovers my book and then encorporates it into his new religion called "Christianity", how is this then a Christian concept??? Maybe, just maybe, the Christian concept was taken from earlier concepts that existed well before Christianity?? If you ask me, that would be the more logical theory in my opinion..

Edited September 13, 2009 by Big Chief

[Big Chief]

OK so, here's a flip side question for all the hardcore believers:

Why do you come here and do these long, semi-literate, and actively psychotic posts about whatever you felt like making up today? What is the purpose? Are you trying to convert people into a world of terrifying fear and paranoia? Are you trying to scare us into loving God and going to church? Are you just making fun of us by getting us to waste our time and then bashing us repeatedly? Or, alternatively (and far more terrifying than a made up version of a non-existent place) do you *actually and truly* believe what you are writing?

Well here is my flip side for all hardcore non-believers:

Why do you try to disprove someone just because they don't believe what you believe? I could care less what people believe. If you want to believe that baby's come from storks and God is trees and stones then so be it... I could care less. I thought this was a paranormal site. I gave my friends story, seeking more information on the subject and I get bashed for "proselytizing" and trying to convert people to Christianity. What nonsense? If you don't have nothing to add to the subject then puff, be gone. Those people that dabble in the ouija board extensively and knows alot about the spirit world, those are the people that I'm looking for responses from. The rest, I can care less to hear from.. Good day....

[Agent. Mulder]

Near-death experiences are bullcrap?? So I guess all the millions of people in the world throughout the years that have spoken and written about their near death experiences are all liars.

please quote me where i said that. otherwise, dont post bullcrap.

but yeah, theyre bullcrap, and nothing special or out of the norm.

Even atheist have had near-death experiences. Near-death experiences are not limited to religious people. Search the web and see for yourself.... There are doctors and scientist that have been studying this for years. All people are susceptible to near-death experiences.

ummmm, ok

doesnt matter if youre not religious and have had a near death experience. i already explained how thats totally irrelavent, and you just near to hear the idea in some cases. so i dont need to search for it at all, as it serves no purpose.

who are the docs and scientists that have been studying it though. please show me what theyve come up with.

If I wrote a book 5000 years ago about the devil and hell and it was the belief of my peoples 5000 years ago. Then all of a sudden a man comes along, discovers my book and then encorporates it into his new religion called "Christianity", how is this then a Christian concept??? Maybe, just maybe, the Christian concept was taken from earlier concepts that existed well before Christianity?? If you ask me, that would be the more logical theory in my opinion..

its a concept, because now They believe it and preach it and have worked it into Their belief, thats how.

just because a teacher teaches einsteins work, doesnt mean the teacher doesnt share, believe in and teach the same concept to people.

[Agent. Mulder]

Well here is my flip side for all hardcore non-believers:

Why do you try to disprove someone just because they don't believe what you believe? I could care less what people believe. If you want to believe that baby's come from storks and God is trees and stones then so be it... I could care less. I thought this was a paranormal site. I gave my friends story, seeking more information on the subject and I get bashed for "proselytizing" and trying to convert people to Christianity. What nonsense? If you don't have nothing to add to the subject then puff, be gone. Those people that dabble in the ouija board extensively and knows alot about the spirit world, those are the people that I'm looking for responses from. The rest, I can care less to hear from.. Good day....

no they dont.

they assume they do.

you cant really have vast knowledge of something like the spirit world. you can have opinions and know a lot about what other people have believed about the spirit world, but thats it.

[+HerNibs]

Well here is my flip side for all hardcore non-believers:

Why do you try to disprove someone just because they don't believe what you believe? I could care less what people believe. If you want to believe that baby's come from storks and God is trees and stones then so be it... I could care less. I thought this was a paranormal site. I gave my friends story, seeking more information on the subject and I get bashed for "proselytizing" and trying to convert people to Christianity. What nonsense? If you don't have nothing to add to the subject then puff, be gone. Those people that dabble in the ouija board extensively and knows alot about the spirit world, those are the people that I'm looking for responses from. The rest, I can care less to hear from.. Good day....

Here is my reasoning for "debunking" a lot of this -

I am saddened and angered when an individual sinks their hopes, dreams, money and energy into something that has no supportive evidence of it being valid. Many of these people need to look for solutions in the "real" world. Health issues can be life threatening and any charlatan that takes a penny for "healing" should be charged. Individuals with mental issues who are lured into believing that speaking to Benny the mystical Native American spirit guide will help fix all their problems that "modern medicine" can't fix should also be charged. People who deprive themselves of the healing process of grieving by communicating with their dead loved ones through frauds like Sylvia Browne are keeping themselves in an unhealthy state of perpetual denial. I don't believe in life after death (don't start with NDE's - had one, unremarkable) but IF there is life after death I certainly don't think that the departed are sending messages telling them to look in the sock drawer. It's an insult to the departed and to the livings memories of the departed.

If the paranormal ever has supportive evidence I will be the first one in line to state that I was wrong and with proper evidence I will change my mind. That is how an open mind works.

There are natural processes to life and focusing on the un-natural denies an individual a healthy growth cycle.

Listen, I really don't care if some one believes in the afterlife, ghosts, god/s or what not but when they begin using these beliefs as a reason to continue or to deny facing harsh realities then I have a problem. I have a HUGE problem when the frauds make money off of a persons fears and beliefs.

Your initial story struck me as a modern moral urban legend. I have no idea if the individual really exists and if he does if he really had this happen or even if he really believes it happened. Regardless it sounds as if some of the people involved should seek counseling BEFORE they change their lives based on what could be a lie or a hallucination.

YOU state that you have seen things moved without being touched. Great. Video? It would be a start. Having impartial scientific types document it? Better. I've tried and tried to see things like this. Attending seances, board events, haunted houses, readings, etc. NEVER saw a thing. I would LOVE to know that there is an afterlife and that someday I will see my kids after I die. I would LOVE to believe in magic.

Your snide behavior towards those that are questioning the event (IMHO) shows that you have so much wrapped up in the "belief" that any other excuse is offensive. I don't think this is a healthy attitude towards life but like I said, just my opinion.

Like I said in other posts, yes, this is Unexplained Mysteries forum, not "listen to my story and believe without question" forum.

Skepticism is healthy.

Nibs

[Agent. Mulder]

Well here is my flip side for all hardcore non-believers:

Why do you try to disprove someone just because they don't believe what you believe? I could care less what people believe. If you want to believe that baby's come from storks and God is trees and stones then so be it... I could care less. I thought this was a paranormal site. I gave my friends story, seeking more information on the subject and I get bashed for "proselytizing" and trying to convert people to Christianity. What nonsense? If you don't have nothing to add to the subject then puff, be gone. Those people that dabble in the ouija board extensively and knows alot about the spirit world, those are the people that I'm looking for responses from. The rest, I can care less to hear from.. Good day....

well, why dont you care less then? since you said you can.

[skygeneration]

1 - welcome to UM

2 - problem with that story, there is no hell (well, 99.9%). so theres the first problem on how you know its not real.

Your so sure hell doesn't exist when I know it does.

I've lived it for 18 years.

anyways I Googled the name Zetoh and it brought up some interesting stuff.

Apparently the name has surfaced more then once in a Ouija board session.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Zetoh+demon&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[+HerNibs]

Your so sure hell doesn't exist when I know it does.

I've lived it for 18 years.

anyways I Googled the name Zetoh and it brought up some interesting stuff.

Apparently the name has surfaced more then once in a Ouija board session.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Zetoh+demon&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Most of those results (first page) are Big Chief himself.

Nibs

[OKGH]

Well here is my flip side for all hardcore non-believers:

Why do you try to disprove someone just because they don't believe what you believe? I could care less what people believe. If you want to believe that baby's come from storks and God is trees and stones then so be it... I could care less. I thought this was a paranormal site. I gave my friends story, seeking more information on the subject and I get bashed for "proselytizing" and trying to convert people to Christianity. What nonsense? If you don't have nothing to add to the subject then puff, be gone. Those people that dabble in the ouija board extensively and knows alot about the spirit world, those are the people that I'm looking for responses from. The rest, I can care less to hear from.. Good day....

I don't believe I ever said what I believe. Nor have I attempted to disprove anything you have said; I have merely asked for evidence of a phenomena, which if what you say is true actually is true, should be able to be caught on tape. Nor am I a hardcore non-believer. In reality, I am a devout, confirmed, and consistently attending member of the Anglican Church. I do, in fact, believe in heaven. I believe in God. I believe, in short, most of the teachings and practices of my faith.

I put faith in bold because that's all it is. It's my personal faith, not something I would ever let influence my discussion of non faith based items. Do I believe that I have any factual proof of an afterlife? No. And as a result, I have never, nor will I ever, present my faith based beliefs as ANYTHING other than that. This is where I have issue with how people are phrasing and expressing these ideas. You're posting in the Ghosts, Hauntings & The Paranormal forum, not the Religion forum. As such, you're by default presenting theories or ideas which could likely (or hopefully) have some sort of proof attached. If you presented it merely as a story (a second hand one at that) and NOT as factual proof positive not only of an afterlife, but of a very specific Judeo-Christian mindset concerning the presence of evil and punishment, then I would imagine people would be a lot more receptive and probably not view you as a missionary using scare tactics.

Those people that dabble in the ouija board extensively and knows alot about the spirit world, those are the people that I'm looking for responses from. The rest, I can care less to hear from..

Then I suggest you find a forum more suited to your one sided needs OR get used to having the general populace of UM respond and discuss your claims. This is a multi-faceted board, one where you can't restrict who comments.

Extremely polarizing initial posts will very likely get strong and polarized responses.

[skygeneration]

Most of those results (first page) are Big Chief himself.

Nibs

Yeah that was kind of my point, but um I should have phrased it better sorry Nibs.

[+HerNibs]

Yeah that was kind of my point, but um I should have phrased it better sorry Nibs.

No worries.

I should have said Welcome to UM.

Nibs

[sir guy the seeker]

Paranormalcy, your wacked. You don't scare me at all. You have your yes men cheering you on but they are nothing more than nut huggers. Scientist today in my opinion are bafoons. They want to explain everything paranormal with scientific beliefs. You people actually believe that we're the only ones on this planet much less the universe. Your nuts. I believe spirits are real. Demons, angels, hell, heaven and other realms are real. As long as you have bafoons like yourself and scientist who want to rationally explain every paranormal behavior the thing will keep going on right under everybodies noses. The spirit world is real. And when you personally see sh!t flying around right before your eyes, you can not disprove this in no scientific way. How the hell can your brain pull a chair right from right under a human being who is sitting on it?? When you and your scientist prove this with a videotape then I will be a believer. How can your brain pick up a plastic chair and throw it at someone. When you and your scientist friend show me how this work I will be a believer?

If you can do this with your brain then why don't you and your scientist do so and show us all? Amaze us with your rational scientific beliefs.. Your scientific theories are pure bullsh!t!!! How can a wooden board make the human brain pull a chair from under another human being. Well if it can, then maybe I can get a cardboard box from the supermarket and put it on a table and then use it to channel energy to pull another chair from under another human being. How can a scientist even explain this? That's lunacy..

Maybe I can also use a piece of wood from a construction site and put it on a table and channel my energy from it and use it to pick up a plastic chair and throw it at someone that I want to throw it at. Maybe you and your scientist friends can show us all how it's done. If your so sure that your scientist are correct then let them use telekenesis to pick up a chair and throw it at you. I will be awaiting the video..

Actually i find that there is nobody who is more knowledgeable on the subject of the paranormal on these forums than paranormalcy and i am sure you would find that he has studied the subject matter thoroughly from many different angles. That doesnt mean i am his yes man or that i always agree with what he says 100 per cent he is merely sharing his thoughts and theories and adding to a rich discussion.....

[Pauly Dangerously]

So, anyone have any proof of anything yet? Video, audio?

Edited September 14, 2009 by Paul Noise

[OKGH]

So, anyone have any proof of anything yet? Video, audio?

No. And I don't think we're going to get any.

[Corp]

Well this thread took a hell of a turn. We even have someone agreeing with tissy. Though I'm still wondering how a spirit cries through a board. Does it spell it out or something?

Person: What are you doing?

Spirit: Crying.

Person: You're crying right now?

Spirit: Like a baby.

And I agree with others that the beer thing seems very out of place. Sounded like this guy was going to kick back and relax, not something I'd link with Hell.

[Sakari]

Big Chief....

Why are you getting so upset?...This board is for all views.You are getting mad at people offering answers , but in return try to "bash" their beliefs?...Contradicting isn't it?...Ok , my take....You will not like it..My parents are BIG time born agains....You mentioned some Christians say the ouiji is the devil , or whatever....Some Christians say Magicians/Illusionists ( Criss Angel ) are works of the devil....And read up on the Bible also , how many times it has been edited , and how much has been left out , and put in , changed , etc....That is a entire diferent subject though....Point on that , no one can use a religion to "prove" anything , to many of them....

So , to the Ouji board...I wanted to see if they could video tape their sessions , but you allready said " spirits" will not come out with a audience?....Hmmmmmm.....Ok , try this than , ask them to blindfold themselves during a session , and I want you to turn the board upside down , or replace it with a diferent board..I am asking you to do this for yourself , and see what happens...Do not let them know what you are doing...And keep in mind , this is to show you that this is all real , not for me to tell you it is not...Let's go with the upside down board , have the session(s) , and please come back with results.....Do the spirits still answer in the correct areas?...I am serious on this....

Back to a couple other points....Alcohol is a Sin?.....Have you seen Catholic Priests drink?...Did someone reportedley turn blood into Wine?.....Who was that?.....Oops , went to religion again....

I really want you to try what I said above with the sessions , it may open your eyes to other posibilities , or who knows , may open ours.....

And sorry about the " gang" activities in your area , My son got involved in that crap and is now serving 2 more years in Prison , he has been in since he was 18 years old , now 23.....What gang by the way?.....

P.S. You mentioned also you came here for a paranormal site , and got upset when you found other views on subjects....This would be like everyone in the entire USA only liking the Chicago Bears , every single person is a Bears fan...Not one fan for any other team , all stadiums filled with fans for the Bears , not even one to encourage the other team....Wouldn't that be a extremely boaring situation?....

If you went to a Doctor for headaches , and that Doctor told you you had 2 weeks to live , would you go get a second opinion , or just take his word for it?

You can stick your head up a bull's butt to look for a good steak, but I'll just trust the butcher...

Edited September 14, 2009 by Sakari

[Big Chief]

Well this thread took a hell of a turn. We even have someone agreeing with tissy. Though I'm still wondering how a spirit cries through a board. Does it spell it out or something?

Person: What are you doing?

Spirit: Crying.

Person: You're crying right now?

Spirit: Like a baby.

And I agree with others that the beer thing seems very out of place. Sounded like this guy was going to kick back and relax, not something I'd link with Hell.

Hmm, A spirit does not cry through a board. The spirit said "Im crying" when my friend asked "What does Satan look like?". Spirits can show emotion too you know... From what I've heard, the afterlife is not like the human living physical life, so many things that they do there you will never understand..

[Big Chief]

Big Chief....

Why are you getting so upset?...This board is for all views.You are getting mad at people offering answers , but in return try to "bash" their beliefs?...Contradicting isn't it?...Ok , my take....You will not like it..My parents are BIG time born agains....You mentioned some Christians say the ouiji is the devil , or whatever....Some Christians say Magicians/Illusionists ( Criss Angel ) are works of the devil....And read up on the Bible also , how many times it has been edited , and how much has been left out , and put in , changed , etc....That is a entire diferent subject though....Point on that , no one can use a religion to "prove" anything , to many of them....

So , to the Ouji board...I wanted to see if they could video tape their sessions , but you allready said " spirits" will not come out with a audience?....Hmmmmmm.....Ok , try this than , ask them to blindfold themselves during a session , and I want you to turn the board upside down , or replace it with a diferent board..I am asking you to do this for yourself , and see what happens...Do not let them know what you are doing...And keep in mind , this is to show you that this is all real , not for me to tell you it is not...Let's go with the upside down board , have the session(s) , and please come back with results.....Do the spirits still answer in the correct areas?...I am serious on this....

Back to a couple other points....Alcohol is a Sin?.....Have you seen Catholic Priests drink?...Did someone reportedley turn blood into Wine?.....Who was that?.....Oops , went to religion again....

I really want you to try what I said above with the sessions , it may open your eyes to other posibilities , or who knows , may open ours.....

And sorry about the " gang" activities in your area , My son got involved in that crap and is now serving 2 more years in Prison , he has been in since he was 18 years old , now 23.....What gang by the way?.....

P.S. You mentioned also you came here for a paranormal site , and got upset when you found other views on subjects....This would be like everyone in the entire USA only liking the Chicago Bears , every single person is a Bears fan...Not one fan for any other team , all stadiums filled with fans for the Bears , not even one to encourage the other team....Wouldn't that be a extremely boaring situation?....

If you went to a Doctor for headaches , and that Doctor told you you had 2 weeks to live , would you go get a second opinion , or just take his word for it?

You can stick your head up a bull's butt to look for a good steak, but I'll just trust the butcher...

Hmm, there are many true ouija sessions that I saw on youtube. There is many by this one man who has been doing ouija sessions for over 30 plus years and his sessions are on youtube. Perhaps I will just link some of the "real ones" here.. Also, I've heard and seen the fools who try to prove the ouija board as a fake. First of all, the ouija board has no real powers. It's just a piece of cardboard. You can create your own ouija board out of construction paper and it will work.. It's the contact and intent that makes it work. I believe spirits are all around us but can not communicate with us unless we intently "invite them in". The ouija board acts like that invitation for spirits to come in. That trickery you described above is non-sense. I've seen people do it on the internet and its laughable. Their only intent is to prove the ouija board as a fake so they will do everything imaginable to prove it doesn't work.

They are coming in with the pre-conceived notion that the ouija is fake and will do everything in their powers to make sure it doesn't work. First, they set up a studio with lights and cameras as if they are filming a hollywood movie. Then they bring in some people who could really care less if it works or not. Then they blindfold them and the trickery begins. While blindfolding the participants, the observers turn the board upside down and switch the board and tries all other types of tricks to get the results that they want. To prove that the ouija board is a fake. They have no real intentions of seeing if the board works so that's a false way of disproving the ouija board..

Better yet, I suggest you and the unbelievers go to a ouija session. About 3 different ones with 3 different ouija'ers who knows what they are doing. No cameras cause it's not a game or an interview. Observe the session as an outsider. Ask a few questions as an outsider. Ask personal questions about yourself and your family members that nobody knows but you. You are not playing the ouija game but just observing as an outsider and asking a few questions. That way you can not say the ouija is tapping into your subconscious because you are not the one at the table playing the game.. Ask if something can be physically moved infront of your own 2 eyes so that you can see if its real. That is how you disprove the ouija board. Don't come into the session with trickery and trying to disprove it. Come in there with a blank opinion and ask questions and see if it answers correctly or gives you some off the wall mumbo jumbo answers.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Big Chief

[Agent. Mulder]

Your so sure hell doesn't exist when I know it does.

I've lived it for 18 years.

anyways I Googled the name Zetoh and it brought up some interesting stuff.

Apparently the name has surfaced more then once in a Ouija board session.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Zetoh+demon&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

no one likes a liar.

so stop it.

[Agent. Mulder]

Hmm, A spirit does not cry through a board. The spirit said "Im crying" when my friend asked "What does Satan look like?". Spirits can show emotion too you know... From what I've heard, the afterlife is not like the human living physical life, so many things that they do there you will never understand..

that should be proof right there that it Doesnt Work.

you asked what something fictional looks like, and it replied 'im crying'. sooo, wtf is that?

from what ive heard, the after life is just like human life, and many things they do there we would understand.

so whats your point?

[GoldenArms]

That board really had a lot of **** to say.