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Chauncy

Archeological Suppression in New Zealand

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Mattshark

So has anyone actually got evidence of suppressed archaeology or is this now just an excuse to be racist?

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Professor Buzzkill

[quote name='Mattshark' date='23 April 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1271980586' post='3387562

So has anyone actually got evidence of suppressed archaeology or is this now just an excuse to be racist?

Who is being racist? Is it racist to speak the truth? Who carved pictures in rounded stones? Who set up standing stones that have obviously been standing for longer then 800 years?

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lightly

hi Professor , standing stones? older than 800 years?? and.. people are said to have arrived when???

.. if you would please?.

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Mr Supertypo

Who is being racist? Is it racist to speak the truth? Who carved pictures in rounded stones? Who set up standing stones that have obviously been standing for longer then 800 years?

the truth is never racist, but (some retarded) people are. So shame on them.

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jmccr8

Hello Astrios,

I see that you have been a member here for 5yrs,I don't know how actively you have read posts in the threads in this forum.I have been here for about 6 months and have read throught threads hat are several years old and I think if you took the time you would find that you have gravely underestimated the participants of this forum.Yes there have been a few posters that have expressed negative conotations and many of the other posters have stepped in to voice their concerns to such limited veiws.I would suggest that you take the time to read through some of the threads and familiarize yourself with what is actually said here.jmccr8

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Paracelse

Here in America there's some evidence that the Pheonicians , Romans, and Celts all established trade contacts if not built some small towns. Rather than trying to supress the information as they seem to be doing over there in New Zealand, our Archeologists completely ignore any mention of it. A kind of" If we ignore it ,it will disappear" attitude. There are no land claims to worry about in regards to these, so I can't understand why there's been no critical evaluation of the evidence..

Those evidences would changes the country's history, therefore it's easier to ignore hoping it would go away. When I lived in Colorado, I've heard of Viking graves near Limon (Eastern part of the state) but couldn't find anything in books or elsewhere.

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Paracelse

Here's a link from my State. I didn't even know this was here!

<a href='http://www.celts.ws/AmStonehenge/map.html' target='_blank'>American Stonehenge</a>

Your link is about some nudist colony :P

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Paracelse

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i mean i live in the supposedly "free'' country of america, and yet the government has so much control over peoples daily lives....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I know what your saying dude. The way this power and control is maintained and increased is through the media of course. And also by with holding factual events of our past. If all the established leaders of the world one day opened their vaults and disclosed all that they know about our past, our world view would change dramatically! They fear this change because it will undermine their level of power and control and profit!

The best way to control a civilization as diverse as ours they must with hold truths, prevent realization and promote ignorance or apathy. Tell me if this sounds true?...A rule of thumb to follow when it comes to government disclosure of our archaelogical history, is that any information that has the potential to undermind power and control and profit will most certainly be suppressed. Any information that has the potential to increase power and control and profit will be reported on constantly indeed incessantly to till it is considered a norm.

Totally true, the best way to keep a population "inline" is the creation of "A" history, Pharaohs knew it, Hitler did it, Vatican practiced it for nearly 17 centuries (PS: At the council of Nicaea in Turkey in 325, JC was voted god by a minority of 15. something % and the 84.something % were condemned as heretics for believing he was a man. Arian was condemned for that). And it still holds today.. yet for thinking like that you find yourself holding the "title" of stupid conspiracy theorist. How trivial.

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jmccr8

Hello Astrios,

To be perfectly frank I am the least likely to give you the information that you are asking about.With respect to the dna study of the Olmecs they were a very culturally diverse society.I went and looked at a thread that Abramelin started some months back "Did ancient Native American seafarers cross the Atlantic".There was some interesting information as to the halogroups in there and I would suggest you read through pages 12 through 15.If you are truely interested in some productive interaction I would think that with respect to the genetic research that Swede,Cormac,Abramlin,Harte,Copasetic or some of the others would be more than capable of giving you current scientific evidence.

With respect to the religeous simularities/differences,Puzzler has devoted a great deal of time researching myths and religion in and around the ancient mediterainian.I am sure that SlimJim would be helpful to you as well.As for me I was raised as a chatholic in a small rural community and there was some fighting between the leftfooted and rightfooted bog trotters but when it came down to it the was little difference between us,satuday night we'ed go out and sow our wild oat and sundady we'ed go to church and pray for a crop failure.jmccr8

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Mattshark

Who is being racist? Is it racist to speak the truth? Who carved pictures in rounded stones? Who set up standing stones that have obviously been standing for longer then 800 years?

Is there evidence of archaeological suppression is also what I asked, I still have seen none.

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Mattshark

Those evidences would changes the country's history, therefore it's easier to ignore hoping it would go away. When I lived in Colorado, I've heard of Viking graves near Limon (Eastern part of the state) but couldn't find anything in books or elsewhere.

I think it is beyond unlikely that any of it is true, and there really is ZERO evidence of Romans, Celts and Pheonicians in the America's. Vikings, yes, but nothing in Colorado.

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jmccr8

Hello Astios,

A quick search on wiki shows that as I seemed to recall that there were several cultures that has either serpent symbolism or worship present in their cultures.They are as follows:

Babylon

Norse mythology

Hittite

Egyptians

Greeks

Sumerians

Minoans

There is also the use of the serpent in alot of Celtic art and jewelery

As I stated earlier that there are others that a far more knowledgable in these areas and I am sure that if you were to ask for their input they would be more than willing to share their knwledge on the subjects with you I had previously posted their names to you and I will add that with respect to Kmt_sesh who has devoted many years of study to near east cultures you will find more than ample resource to investigate your quieries.

I might also add that in my previous post to you that in the thread that I gave note to you will see that they show immigration patterns from Asia,Polynesia,Africa,Mediterainian cultures and there is some debatable hologroupX migrations as well.As far as I know no-one is denying that these groups are a part of the Olmec culture as it was a vast and diverse society.There is on the West coast of the Ameriacas several migrations as well some have indicated Semetic and Phonician migrations as well given the finds of artifacts there.

On anouther note I will say that I have had many North American Natives try to tell me how I have taken away their way of life as I am white,my only response to them is that I have lost all of my cultural identity by being raised here as my family comes from Ireland,Scotland,and Brittany.I have never had the experience of knowing my people in their own environment,heard their language[to any real extent]smelled the foods,experienced their humor or culture so when it come to losing one's identity I have a hard time being sympathetic with some one who can practice their religion,practice their traditions,freely speak their own language.I hope that you will take this into concideration next time that you speak so harshly against white people as many of us come from occupied countries and are not independant soverign states.jmccr8

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Mr Supertypo

Whatever the western government is surppressing about archaeology, it is because those findings might put shame on the western civilization not the other way around. You should rejoice your political correctness, for once the truth came out,

Dude do you have any evidence about this so-called conspiracy or not?

Uintil now I only see emotive rants from your side, and no matter how entertaining they can be, they provide no evidence.

you will miss the good old days of political correctness.

Why? im curious...

Edited by ~C.S.M~

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Salami Swami
:geek::hmm:

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warp10

Hi all

Astrios the first race to worship a supreme serpent were the Uru of Australia, ther,e are thousands of references to the Uru in polonisien cultures and other cultures the Australian Aborigines refer to the Uru as the pale or white skinned culture/spiritial heroes this is well documented.

the word Uru in moroi means from the WEST and while your at it check out the name for the morie/ polonisien culture hero mask, this is just the start the amount of references to the Uru in Australia, pacific and beyond is absolutly remarkable, you will be stunned!.

cheers warp10

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jmccr8

Hello Astrios,

After reading your post I went and looked some more,yes you are partially right with respect to the serpent being concidered as evil.However there is more to it than what you have shown,the Ouroboros or Uroborus is an ancient symbol depicting a serpent or dragon swallowing its own tail and forming a circle.It often represents a self-refexivity or cyclicality,especially in the sense of something constantly recreating itself,the eternal return.

It has been important in religeouand mythological symbolism,but it has been used in alchemical illustrations,where it symbolizes the circular nature of thealchemists opus.It is also associated with Gnosticism and Hematicism.

The notion of a serpent/dragon eating its own tail can be traced back to Egypt to 1600bc.The pyramid of Unas 2375-2345bc,heiroglyphs on the west wall gable of the sarcophacus chamber can be read"A serpent is entwined by a serpent"and"The male serpent is bitten by the female serpent,the female serpent is bitten by the male serpent,Heaven is enchanted,earth is enchanted,the male behind mankind is enchanted"

The earliest known symbol of snakes twining around an axial rod[ningishzida]is from Sumeria.

Norse

The legend of Ragnar Lodbrok-The Geatish King Herraud gives a small lindworm to his daughter Dora? town-hart after which it grows into a large serpent which encircles the girls bower and bites its tail.The serpent is slain by Rognar who marries Dora.Ragnar later has a son with anouther woman named Kraka and this son is born with the image of a white snake in one eye.This snake encircles the iris and bit itself on the tail,and the son was named Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye.

I saw many other references regaurding the skake biting its tail some witth reference to the milky way and other celetial significance.There a also reference in christianily that are not related to evil but rather to the cycle of man.As well there are stories that relate to the serpent being a gaurdian to the tree of life and some that descibe a serpant eating the roots to a tree of life.

I am a novice with getting around in the internet and have only in the last 6 months spent any time in this forum,my knowledge in these areas is miminal to say the least which is why I encourage you to interact with some of the more knowledgable contrbuters here.I will look around for answers to some of your questions but I will be slow and I cannot state with any certanty that what I come up with will hold any merit.I joined this forum in the hopes of learning more myself and have found it quite benificial.

Personally I believe that man has been here much longer than we are presently aware of but I do not let that cloud my willingness to learn from those that have spent the time and expense to educate themselves in these matters.

My areas of learning have been in other interests that were relevant to my chosen profession and some hobbies that are similar to my trade.I have also spent sometime studying human interaction as I deal with dispute resolution in my trade although much of the human"sciences and philosophy"are not concidered science in this forum.jmccr8

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jmccr8

Hello Astrios,

I have done some more reading and I am giving you an exerpt from wiki

Serpent worship was well known in ancient Europe.There does not appear to be much ground for supposing that the Roman god Aesculapius was a serpent god in spite of his connection with serpents.On the other hand,we learn from Herodotus of a great serpent which defended the citadel at Athens.The Roman genius loci took the form of a serpent where a snake was kept and fed milk in the temple of Potrinpos,an old Slavonic god.On the Ibernian Peninsula there is evidence that before the introduction of christianity,and perhaps more strongly before the invasions of the Romans,serpent-worship was a part of local religion.To this day there are numerous traces in popular belief,especially in Germany,of respect for the snake,which seems to be a survival of ancestoral worship.

There is also a site at www.sacred-texts.com/etc/wos/index.htm that has a very indepth veiw of serpent worship by the Greeks and some of the other mediterrainian cultures.It is "The Worship of the Serpent" by John Bathurst Deane

At this site he discusses the Temple of Bacchus,Draco the first king of Athens and much more that shows a very wide spread practice of serpent worship.

At this time I should also state that the Celts,Arians and most fo the mediterainian cultures are Indo-European and that the likelihood that there are simularities in certain belief systems is not an unlikely possibility so that the simularities and founding roots for these cultures could have originated anywhere as we are constantly uncovering new dimensions to migrations and historical evidence.Much of the known world has been affected by floods,volcanic activity,tetonic plate shift and ice ages.This is part of the reason that I feel that man has been around much longer that science allows for today.As time passes and research and technology andvance I believe that we will find more than we can possibly imagine at present.jmccr8

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jmccr8

Hello Astrios,

I will be breif as I have my grand-daughter with me and we still have to watch a movie and have a popcorn party before she goes to bed.I have been raise as a christian and therefore have never been indoctrinated into the faith of my ancestors,and having not been raisein the counties of my ancestors I am highly suspect of newage practitioners of and outlawed religion as there is no assurance as to the validity of the rights and rituals.I believe in a god I don't have an affiliation with any organized religion and the likelihood that at any time in the future that my voice will be joining in with the chior is unlikely.I can tell you that I understand how I feel when I take something that I can see and create in my mind and give it a reality to create it with my hands and give it dimension and substance makes me feel like god and it is by knowing this that I understand God.Back at you later.jmccr8

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Swede

astrios - Interesting concept. However, how would your presentation incorporate/reconcile the genetic/ethnographic/archaeological evidence as it pertains to Native American cultures with the cultural and spiritual significance of the eagle to said cultures?

.

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cerberusxp

rolleyes.gif Thats sad.

Read Forbidden Archeology: The Hidden History of the Human Race by Michael A. Cremo, Richard L. Thompson

The book is kinda expensive but worth it. Some of it speculation but all of it is very interesting. thumbsup.gif

You'll LOVE this OOPARTS @ s8aint

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Mr Supertypo

The fact is that you are entertaining the political correctness,on which you can blame for incompetency.

Dude, you wrote this

you will miss the good old days of political correctness

were I asked you...why? I didnt get any answer on this.

I asked you also about some evidence but got only more rants from you, but no facts (see below).

But if you do not entertain it, how cares? You think the world cares but in fact it is only your media making this stuff up. The truth is out there, that nobody dares to publish DNA test results of remains found on their territory including the olmecs. Ignoring the obvious(above evident connections) while blame the obscure(political correctness), that is rather truly entertaining for me. :lol:

So in the end you dont have anything, than just your mere opinion (witch is based on your fantasy, rather than reality).

So since I am a nice guy, im going to ask you again (maybe you missed my question) DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDENCE? yes or no?

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jmccr8

Hello Astrios,

I can understand where your comming from with what you have outlined.For the Indo- europeans much Has been lost though warring,it was a common prractice to destroy temples and learning centers.In doing so the victors erected or modified temples imposed their religion and social structures and standards.Given that there may or may not have form of writing at that time,ultlimately any continuation of any unaccepatable religious activity would be held and recorded verbally in secret.Over time these oral traditions may have ended up as myth or folklore,I am sure that this is readily appearant to you comming from a country that has expressed religious freedom in its recent past.

The onset of christianity under Roman rule did little to change this as it became a very key ingredient in Roman conquest.The Catholic Chuch has plagued the known world with reliious domination,political agenda,and financial control from everything from banking to countries.I might ask at this time how may of the ancient religions are actively practiced on a woldwide scale openly and in the same form that they were practiced 10,000yrs ago?What could we resonably assume to be the number of practitioners of these religions?I would suggest that the numbers in most cases would be so low that they would be percieved as a cult or a secret society which is what they would essentially have been due to the persicutions that have existed over the last 1,000-2,000yrs.

I belive that it was De Ethica writen by Aristotle that through his process of analysis he basically describes christianity long before it actually became a reality.You can read through St.Thomas Aquinas's interpetation of Aritstotle if you find Aritstotle difficult to follow.I do believe that Jesus was a real person(although that can be a hottly contested possition in this forum)and that he did have a message,as I also believe that he was extensively educated for that time in history.However it is not my belief that he intended to start a new religion,and in this sense we may be in some agreement,as I feel that his intent was to lead the people back to an older uncorrupted for of their faith.All of the religions in the middle-east are dirived from the Ancient Sumerian religion and it had been bastardized and corrupted through every culture that adopted and modified it for their personal use.With the Jews the Scrbibes,Pharasis,and Priests all had vested financial and political interests,and when the Roman empire eventually converted to christianity They relieved the powerful in the jewish faith of a great burden and between them and the romans were able to obscure the real significance of what Jesus was trying to bring out.I t also gave the Roman Empire their greatest weapon/gift to the world as the Chatholic Churuch has been effective in changing the world in ways that no war could they were the iron velvet.Till later jmccr8

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SlimJim22

Indo-european cultures entertained much more freedom of religion than ancient chinese. India was the worse and Greece the best. Many that were destroyed after wars were alien legacies. For example, the Alexandria Library. Religions from ancient greek, roman, hindu civilizations were not totlly destroyed. However, in China, worship of serpent deities were banned by Confucius around 500BC, which considered serpent and phoenix cults as " 怪力乱神 " or in English " as weird ideas for unruly gods." The ethnic religions in China before and after 500BC were vastly different, before the time ethnic chinese practiced serpent/phoenix cults, but after it, all over China was imposed with Confucius ideals and serpent gods were replaced with emperors icons. And the icons of dragon had since then became privilege of noble class. It is why I suggested to differentiate the difference between the religion pertaining to creation and the religion pertaining to absolute power. Amerindians inherited the most original form of serpent cults, while the chinese people turned to worship emperors deification: Yu Huang.

Hinduism was one of the richest source of indo-european myth, India itself was not subjected to long destructive wars. The hindu nobles used to indulge themselves in corruptive way of life, thus led their religion into moral decadence while presevring many originalities. One must be wise enough to reconstruct the original aspects of a religion, the heritage was laid right under piles of rubbish before your eyes.

As far as I have found, neolithic indo-aryan people worshiped swastika. many later deities were related to this symbolism. Swastika according to my interpretation, means the power of nature.

Christianity is like Confucius for the chinese. They preach virtues right beside some purposely contrived ideas to serve their interest. But, Europe has underwent many radical religious revolution thus successed in keeping moving forward than any other could do. Theosophy was just like another revolution of belief system in the west, with connection to older pagan legacies worldwide. The wrong thing in theosophy is to consider white people as the civilizer of the world. Whatever promising revolution humans ever tried, it is always the weakness within humans that bring down their own premises.

Under christianity, europeans can think about creation and god around a book, but chinese were only allowed to memorize poems and Confucian essays which have little thing to do with creation. The emperors were everything to chinese after Confucius. Christianity encompass a huge area of human ideology, from creation to alchemy, and mysticism. It redefined Aristotle and Platos ideas and produced ideals that are awe inspiring though many times europeans committed crime under the name of their god. Along with aryan supremacy, these are all falsehood that people willingly commit themselves to. Blaming the religion is just another excuse. People will struggle to get the things when they need them. I believe white aryan and mongoloids share the same ancestry in the very long past. Not untill we can face to our own weakness and decide to remedy the wrongs, we are not qualified ti inherit the sacred legacy. I am a spiritualist, a friend to all religions. Christian works are among my most frequent read along with buddhism. I know by my mind that the lost legacy is to be recovered through balance and peace. Nobody can claim them alone.

Very well said. 500bce was an interesting time as you also have the rise of greek philosophy and buddhism at this time and maybe even a high point of Mayan culture. The serpent was traditionally a symbol of wisdom though over time it seems to have become many things that are usually secret. I think in the ancient world Sumeria and the indus valley culture were the melting pot so to speak with fusion between African, semitic, caucasian and indo aryan groups. This is how I think myths became so diverse yet kept some symbols the same. Europe since christ is a different story but you still have the fusion of ideas just now working in the opposite direction. The result is that there seem to be layer on layer of tradition, some true some false but at the heart of it is the spread and opposition to the serpent or phoeni cults. Primarily because they mean change and the establishment don't like change. The serpent means many things but perhaps most important is the nature of cyclic existence. Christianity relies on a linear view but in so doing it disempowers the serpent. It hasn't stopped the serpent from being demonized even further though. In overstating the emphasis I think the establishment has slipped up and people are starting to see that reality is cyclic.

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jmccr8

Thank you SlimJim,

I appreciate your input as you are better versed in these areas than I am.Astrios has propsosed an interesting position and I was hoping that you and Puzzler as well as some of the others would give him some assitance.

Astrios,

I would also like to add that Abramelim has an intersting thread running on Doggerland.If you are familiar with this area of paleo-mesolithic development in Northern Europe that it illustrates the social and religious development of a lost culture.In stating such then without documentation it is very difficult to assess who these people were and what their religious beliefs were.This is not an isolated instance of our understanding of what actually were the belief systems of other cultural groups throughout Europe prior to the Roman influence.I had only used the mediterrainian area of European development to give you some discussion in this matter as it is the best recorded due to the interactions of cultures in the last 10,000yrs that I could readily access.I realize that it does not relect the older cultures that moved north after the last iceage nor does it reflect on theories of other culture such as doggerland that may have moved south,east or wet of there .

There is material available on the genetics and their migrations but this does not discribe their religious belief systems,gods or rituals.There is some material available with reference to their burial practices and I have seen some that describe burial practices simular to those that you had previously submitted,however I have no dierect knowledge as to the whether these simularities also reflect a commonality in religious practices.I will look further into it to see if I can find more but it may take some time.As I said earlier some of these cultures may or may not have had a writing system and some art that has been left behind may have been a writing system that we are as of yet not familiar with.Last week I saw an article about the Picts and what had previously been concidered art is now being looked at as a form of writing or recording their history.jmccr8

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Cybele
Because, the serpent worship only find its most intense and original form within mongoloid cultures. None of the homogeneous caucasian cultures ever worship serpent: Norse, greek, roman, Hindu. Instead of wroshipping the serpents, caucasian religion always consider serpent as undesirable and evil.

Really? What about the Minoans, then?

The Snake Goddess was one of the Minoan divinities associated closely with the snake cult. She is called also Household Goddess due to her attribute of the snake, which is connected with welfare of the Minoan house. But the snake is also symbol of the underworld deity, so the Snake Goddess is related to chthonic aspects too.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/minoan_snake_goddess.html

The most popular goddess seems to be the "Snake Goddess," who has snakes entwined on her body or in her hands. Since the figurine is only found in houses and in small shrines in the palaces, we believe that she is some sort of domestic goddess or goddess of the house (a kind of guardian angelin many regions of the world, including Greece, the household snake is worshipped and fed as a domestic guardian angel).

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/MINOA/RELIGION.HTM

What do you think of these cultures' serpent worship? I doubt these cultures are very connected to East Asians and Native Americans:

African mythology

In Africa the chief centre of serpent worship was Dahomey. but the cult of the python seems to have been of exotic origin, dating back to the first quarter of the 17th century. By the conquest of Whydah the Dahomeyans were brought in contact with a people of serpent worshippers, and ended by adopting from them the beliefs which they at first despised. At Whydah, the chief centre, there is a serpent temple, tenanted by some fifty snakes. Every python of the danh-gbi kind must be treated with respect, and death is the penalty for killing one, even by accident. Danh-gbi has numerous wives, who until 1857 took part in a public procession from which the profane crowd was excluded; a python was carried round the town in a hammock, perhaps as a ceremony for the expulsion of evils. The rainbow-god of the Ashanti was also conceived to have the form of a snake. His messenger was said to be a small variety of boa. but only certain individuals, not the whole species, were sacred. In many parts of Africa the serpent is looked upon as the incarnation of deceased relatives. Among the Amazulu, as among the Betsileo of Madagascar, certain species are assigned as the abode of certain classes. The Maasai, on the other hand, regard each species as the habitat of a particular family of the tribe.

Ancient Near East

Before the arrival of the Israelites, snake cults were well established in Canaan in the Bronze Age, for archaeologists have uncovered serpent cult objects in Bronze Age strata at several pre-Israelite cities in Canaan: two at Megiddo,[7] one at Gezer,[8] one in the sanctum sanctorum of the Area H temple at Hazor,[9] and two at Shechem.[10]

In the surrounding region, serpent cult objects figured in other cultures. A late Bronze Age Hittite shrine in northern Syria contained a bronze statue of a god holding a serpent in one hand and a staff in the other.[11] In sixth-century Babylon, a pair of bronzer serpents flanked each of the four doorways of the temple of Esagila.[12] At the Babylonian New Year's festival, the priest was to commission from a woodworker, a metalworker and a goldsmith two images one of which "shall hold in its left hand a snake of cedar, raising its right [hand] to the god Nabu".[13] At the tell of Tepe Gawra, at least seventeen Early Bronze Age Assyrian bronze serpents were recovered.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_(symbolism)#Serpents_in_other_religious_traditions

Edited by Cybele

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