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Chauncy

Archeological Suppression in New Zealand

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SlimJim22

Thank you SlimJim,

I appreciate your input as you are better versed in these areas than I am.Astrios has propsosed an interesting position and I was hoping that you and Puzzler as well as some of the others would give him some assitance.

Astrios,

I would also like to add that Abramelim has an intersting thread running on Doggerland.If you are familiar with this area of paleo-mesolithic development in Northern Europe that it illustrates the social and religious development of a lost culture.In stating such then without documentation it is very difficult to assess who these people were and what their religious beliefs were.This is not an isolated instance of our understanding of what actually were the belief systems of other cultural groups throughout Europe prior to the Roman influence.I had only used the mediterrainian area of European development to give you some discussion in this matter as it is the best recorded due to the interactions of cultures in the last 10,000yrs that I could readily access.I realize that it does not relect the older cultures that moved north after the last iceage nor does it reflect on theories of other culture such as doggerland that may have moved south,east or wet of there .

There is material available on the genetics and their migrations but this does not discribe their religious belief systems,gods or rituals.There is some material available with reference to their burial practices and I have seen some that describe burial practices simular to those that you had previously submitted,however I have no dierect knowledge as to the whether these simularities also reflect a commonality in religious practices.I will look further into it to see if I can find more but it may take some time.As I said earlier some of these cultures may or may not have had a writing system and some art that has been left behind may have been a writing system that we are as of yet not familiar with.Last week I saw an article about the Picts and what had previously been concidered art is now being looked at as a form of writing or recording their history.jmccr8

I was just reading about some funerary practices today. In the areas around modern day Turkey as far as Egypt and Sumer, it was customary to leave bodies exposed so that vultures and other birds could pick them clean. Maybe they wanted to maintain natures circle or they didn't want hungry grows pestering them. Anyway, I know that a similar custom was used by the celts. They would bury bodies for as long as ten years and then dig up the bones and burn them on a bonefire and this is where we get the ideas of bonfires. Quite clever really to fertilize the soil with human flesh.

As for the Picts, they are an interesting bunch. In the Black sea region around 6,000bce and may have had a prmitive language. They covered their bodies in spiral tatoos and buried their kings in cairn like structures with belongings. They are also linked to tartan even at this early stage.

Allegedky it was to the Picts that Scotia, the egyptian princess was brought to marry and hence the name Scotland and Nova Scotia. Bit odd don't you think for egyptian royalty to be taken that far north but then again it seems the picts were an ancient people. I am of the opinion that some hidden connection connected all these diverse global cultures and after the domestication of the horse they were able to extend the influence and connection as far as China and even New Zealand. Stone circles would be a good indicator but they are missing but there are other strong connections between said cultures. Dragons, phallic worship, ley lines, blue spiral tatoos or covering of ash as in Shivaism. Hard to prove any of this when the evidence is actively suppressed as in NZ.

You;ve probably considered it but try looking up the connection between finnish tri es and mongol peoples. They are thought to have common ancestors and it is from them who the caucasian gene is thought to have evolved if I'm not mistaken but then again I could be. Abe is the man in the know on this though.

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SlimJim22

Ah yes but I find it helpful to trace a root to its source. In the case of Marxism you may be surprised that he was operating on behalf of the Jesuits though he may not have realized that. The ideas of communist grew out of reductionist colonies in Paraguay run by Jesuits. Marx was schooled and financially supported by Jesuits. I don't know what this means in the grand scale of things yet it clearly means that at their source christianity and communism are not so different.

I can't disagree with your dating of the serpent cult in China and this may fit in with the city underneath the Gobi desert, Ur is it? However, as for this being the original I am not so sure. In Botswana there is evidence of serpent worship going back to 35,000 bce. So, I'm thinking that they spread into the east, the north being glacial and built Angkor Wot and it was the trade of resources and wisdom over time that led to advances. However, catastrophes sent the advanced cultures back to the primitive roots but always the serpent or the phoenix would rise to rebuild. Perhaps the stories of a lost continent in the Indian or Pacific oceans would make much more sense than a western Atlantis in terms of spreading the serpent but with lack of archeology in sensitive areas all we can do is speculate and make best guesses.

Oh yeah, the story goes that Cain or Kain was the son of Enki (the serpent) who lay with Eve. Maybe original sin although I thought that was to do with the Moon god Sin and how Enlil raped a princess or something. The thing again is that I don't know but have two alternative views that I've come across. Cain was the same as Angra Manyu and Ahriman and was sent east as a punishment for murder or there has been a mistranslation. Rather than spilling Abels blood, Kain had the serpent blood and so was higher and therefore made king. Thus he was given the east as a reward. I'm not too hot on ancient meteorology but if the north was frozen with glaciers, then one would think the south was cooler than it is today, there would be less desert and I would think that south east asia would be the optimum area for civilization to develop.

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SlimJim22

Ah yes but I find it helpful to trace a root to its source. In the case of Marxism you may be surprised that he was operating on behalf of the Jesuits though he may not have realized that. The ideas of communist grew out of reductionist colonies in Paraguay run by Jesuits. Marx was schooled and financially supported by Jesuits. I don't know what this means in the grand scale of things yet it clearly means that at their source christianity and communism are not so different.

I can't disagree with your dating of the serpent cult in China and this may fit in with the city underneath the Gobi desert, Ur is it? However, as for this being the original I am not so sure. In Botswana there is evidence of serpent worship going back to 35,000 bce. So, I'm thinking that they spread into the east, the north being glacial and built Angkor Wot and it was the trade of resources and wisdom over time that led to advances. However, catastrophes sent the advanced cultures back to the primitive roots but always the serpent or the phoenix would rise to rebuild. Perhaps the stories of a lost continent in the Indian or Pacific oceans would make much more sense than a western Atlantis in terms of spreading the serpent but with lack of archeology in sensitive areas all we can do is speculate and make best guesses.

Oh yeah, the story goes that Cain or Kain was the son of Enki (the serpent) who lay with Eve. Maybe original sin although I thought that was to do with the Moon god Sin and how Enlil raped a princess or something. The thing again is that I don't know but have two alternative views that I've come across. Cain was the same as Angra Manyu and Ahriman and was sent east as a punishment for murder or there has been a mistranslation. Rather than spilling Abels blood, Kain had the serpent blood and so was higher and therefore made king. Thus he was given the east as a reward. I'm not too hot on ancient meteorology but if the north was frozen with glaciers, then one would think the south was cooler than it is today, there would be less desert and I would think that south east asia would be the optimum area for civilization to develop.

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Cybele

Minoan religion was probably a legacy left by ancestors of amerindians when they were still in Africa.

There's no archaeological evidence to support this. Minoan civilization flourished from around 2700 to 1450 B.C. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization), long after the ancestors of Native Americans had migrated out of Africa and stopped crossing over into the Americas.

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cormac mac airt
The discovery of Olmec was made during the 1960s, but was suppressed untill 1990s.

The earliest Olmec monuments/artifacts were discovered in the mid to late 1800's. I was reading about the Olmec in the 70's, so no, nothing was suppressed until the 90's.

cormac

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cormac mac airt

Surpression: Denial of language, religion, cultural integrity.

Olmec language had been surpressed untill 2000s:

The Olmec may have been the first civilization in the Western Hemisphere to develop a writing system. Symbols found in 2002 and 2006 date to 650 BCE[53] and 900 BCE[54] respectively, preceding the oldest Zapotec writing dated to about 500 BCE.[55][56]

The 2002 find at the San Andrés site shows a bird, speech scrolls, and glyphs that are similar to the later Mayan hieroglyphs.[57] Known as the Cascajal Block, the 2006 find from a site near San Lorenzo, shows a set of 62 symbols, 28 of which are unique, carved on a serpentine block. A large number of prominent archaeologists have hailed this find as the "earliest pre-Columbian writing".[58] Others are skeptical because of the stone's singularity, the fact that it had been removed from any archaeological context, and because it bears no apparent resemblance to any other Mesoamerican writing system.[59]

There are also well-documented later hieroglyphs known as "Epi-Olmec," and while there are some who believe that Epi-Olmec may represent a transitional script between an earlier Olmec writing system and Mayan writing, the matter remains unsettled.

Finding out the relics is just the first step to surpress something. And there is still ongoing controversy over olmec religion. It i almost sure something crucial is still undercover.

If the symbols have only been recently found then they haven't been surpressed, as in, denied or ignored. Otherwise YOU'D never know about them, either. There's a term for the bold part above, it's called PARANOIA. Rather disingenuous of you to change the goalposts, as it were. You claimed the Olmec were discovered in the 60's and surpressed until the 90's, which is wrong. Now you claim that the language was surpressed until the 2000's, but your highlighted portion clearly says the symbols were found in 2002 and 2006. That's not surpression. A lack of comprehension, maybe?

cormac

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Mr Supertypo

The earliest Olmec monuments/artifacts were discovered in the mid to late 1800's. I was reading about the Olmec in the 70's, so no, nothing was suppressed until the 90's.

cormac

I agree, I read about the Olmecs during the 80's when I was a kid. And I keep finding infos about them all the way till now.

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jmccr8

Hello Astrios,

Glad to see that you are getting some interaction from some of the others here in the forum.With rpect to the burial practices I thought that this was interesting as it shows some simularity with those from China that were in you one post.

The Sungir Site Russia 26,000bc

The burial of two adolescents and the adult male were buried in two shallow graves three metres apart,dug into the permafrost beneath the living surface of the site.All three of the corpses were laid on their backs with the hands folded across the pelvises.The forth individual was represented by an isolated and poorly preserved female skull placed beside a stone slab in an area stained with red ochre,and was found overlaying the mans burial(a person sacrificed as a protector in the afterlife?).The fifth skelleton,that of a headless adult,was so poorly preserved as to be practically unrecoverable.It was found immediatly on top of the two adolescents,(a person sacrificed to serve as a protector in the afterlife?),who were buried together in a head-to-head fashion in the middle of an apparently abandonded circular dwelling structure.

The article goes on to describe the ornamentation of the two adolescents and the adult male.They go on to discuss the social importance of these individualls.If you are interested in the rest of the article I can post it later but it takes me a while as I have to write it out and then type it into a post as I still haven't been able to get this cut and paste thing to work for me.

but as we can see that at this time in history there were elaborate burials that paid homage and there must have been some religious belief system in place.I had read an article about other burial practices that showed both social and religious aspects that dated 40,000yrs ago in Austailia,and in that instance they had pacticed cremation and buried those of some significance with gifts or possibly possesions,however there is now way to know what their religion was or who their dieties were or what they were.jmccr8

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SlimJim22

Couple of questions about chinese archeology. Has there been many excavations of the alleged city in the Gobi desert? Is there even a city there?

Is the spiral design one that is found in Asia very often?

I have read that turtle veneration was popular in the americas so is this likely to have originated from China or would there be reason for it to have evolved independently?

Jade... Hmm... I am thinking. Ever seen the Wizard of Oz films?

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SlimJim22

Spiral designs have been very popular since the appearance of colored pottery. Here is one example from Yangshao Culture, 4000-3000BC

Seems like imitating oceanic life.

hemudu.bmp.jpg

And spiral design during the time of dynastic era from 1700BC-1900AD were also widely used, having a meaning of auspiciousness, and devinity. But most times, spiral design was used on depicting the vehicle of demigod beings, such as cloud carpet of devine figures, the seat of enlightened elders etc.

Here is a bronze sculpture of Taoist saint, his feet are supported by cloud carpet, with visible spiral features. And there are more such feature in chinese paintings of cranes, demigods palace etc. And the demigods were usually depicted walking among the cloud, and cloud was represented by elaborate spiral features.

taoist.jpg

The latest use of spiral design was the olympic torch, which was a elaborate decoration. According the designer, the spiral theme is called Auspicious Cloud or “ 祥云 ”in Chinese.

olympic_beijing_2008_torch.jpg

As far as I know, spiral means auspiciousness and sacredness since dynastic times, but I am not sure about how neolithic people interprete it. Maybe not too different from dynastic traditions.

Turtle worship started around 7000BC, the oldest evidence of turtle is found in Jiahu Culture, untill now, there have been 200 pieces of turtle shells excavated from the site. This is one of them:

jiahut.jpg

I am not sure if amerindians tradition of turtle worship really originated in China, maybe they were just sharing some common past outside China and had ben split onto different continent. This is a trait of ethnic spirituality,it is no necessary that they had met each other when the tradition was going on.

I have watch the film of course, I love the song " Over The Rainbow " One of the best song of the last millanium. :tu:

Do you mean the Emmeral City? Jade has poor hardness, I still do not know why people worship jade to be honest. Maybe its smoothness? I remember that some village shaman several years ago told me that jade can connect with the spirits, because spirits are attract to it, just like a spirit magnet. :ph34r:

They are some wicked pics. Cheers :tu: I particularly like the Taoist saint. I don't know as much as I'd like about Taoism but do you see a possible connection with the Tau cross at all. It crops up very often in the mysteries and I think you might like this in regards to Kain being King, Kin and relating to Asia. I see the three parts of the Tau cross as being red, white and black but above the 'T' you could put a circle so it resembles the Ankh. The colour of the circle in my mind is yellow or gold and symbolizes divinity. It is a pretty abstract idea but it jumps out at me fairly regularly.

Thanks for all the stuff on spirals, I think I will have to think on that some more. With regard to Jade I was thinking of the symbolism behind the colour green and I think you are right about spirits having some connection to it. Here is a list of all the esoteric things I link to green.

Oz - emeralds - Otherworld - yellow brick road

Peter Pan - Nevernever land - flying - fairies - not ageing

Robin hood or Robin of Od - the Green Man of the forest - druids

Osiris (green skin)- Dionysus - Underworld

Sanat Kumara - Eternal youth - Rex Mundi - Shambhalla

Al Khadir - the Green one - Sufism

That's about it for now but I am sure there could be more.

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Frostbite

Does anyone have any other sourced information? And I would like to see this 'Jonathan Gray's forbidden science' list, and where the info came from. PUBLISHED.

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WakingDream

It seems that greed and personal gain always come before truth, sad b*******.

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crystal sage

This site may prove interesting..

From the oral history of the Australian Aboriginals..

THE BEGINNING: "They say we have been here 60,000 years. But it is much longer. We have been here since the time before time began … All other peoples of the world come from us." Aboriginal Elder: Page 122 and back cover of "Voices of the First Day"

<55,000,000 years: Bundjalung Dreaming story: "The Sacred Spring." This oral account declares that "from the beginning, this land was one whole land from here to India," which was eventually separated by "just one mass of water."

6,000,000 years: Bundjalung Dreaming story: "The Fairy Emus." "A big rock stands in the sea six miles out from Byron Bay." It has been millions of years since the sea floor beside this island (Julian Rocks) was last exposed. "Nguthungulli had a cave in the rock." There is only one cave at Julian Rocks, which is located adjacent to the sea floor.

850,000 years: "HOMO ERECTUS VOYAGES CLOSER TO AUSTRALIA." Extremely convincing evidence of the presence of Homo erectus, who sailed to Flores (the second closest Indonesian island to Australia) from an unknown destination. They reached this island "between 800,000 to 900,000 years ago." According to respected archaeologist, Josephine Flood, this fact "also makes evidence for an earlier human arrival of ancient mariners into Australia easier to accept."

400,000 years: Professor Cann was confident that "mitochondrial DNA puts the origin of Homo sapiens much further back and indicates that the Australian Aborigines arose over 400,000 years ago from two distinct lineages, far earlier than any racial type."

My link

I do recall reading about a very respected Aboriginal Elder I think her name was Rose was speaking of secret Australian underground pyramids.. They wouldn't disclose their whereabouts as they were guardians of these sacred sites .

Aboriginal gives Masonic handshake on meeting first white manIn 1931 in the N.W. Kimberley¼s, Prof. A. P. Elkin, Professor of Anthropology at Sydney University came upon a tribe of Aborigines who had not met a white man before. The professor was astounded when tribal elders greeted him with Ancient Secret masonic hand signs. He was struck by the startling sematic features present in the natives. He discovered the Aborigines worshipped the sun. They also had an earth mother & Rainbow Serpent Cult. Later he discovered many of the words spoken were of Egyptian origin. This is the area of the famous Wandjina Cave Art. According to legend the Wanjina came from across the Indian Ocean in great vessels.

Source: Maggies Farm No.37 1988

This 92lb basalt rock was unearthed by Andrew Nott from a building site in North Street Toowoomba (Qld) during the digging of foundations for a factory in 1974.

The rock is carved with a solar motif with a stylistic face and heiroglyphs of serpents. Marilyn Pye bought the artifact and flew it to New York where it was identified as belonging to the most ancient Meso-American culture - The La Tolita - pre-Mayan, and estimated at 2000 BC. Due to a series of circumstances, Marilyn became aware of The Hopi Prophecies concerning the return of the true white brother", which tells of a whiter person with two helpres bringing the symbol of the sun to the Hopi. The legend says that if the three come bringing the symbol of the Sun and the Cross, the "great purification" would begin. If the symbol was not returned then the world would be destroyed by another holocaust. (The Hopi Indians believe they survived a former holocaust by retreating underground). The rock finally made it to the Hopi Indians, and the elder Grandfather David became very excited over the rock and said: "This is what we have been waiting for. There are three others to come."

***********

;) part of the 2012 scenario?

My link

Various axes, swords, jars, scarabs, rock art along with Aboriginal dreamtime from the Kimberley support the hypotheses that the Phoenicians had reached Australia. Further more they had established long-term colonies and mining operations and intermarried with the Aborigines producing "spirit-children" as the Wandjina tales sustains. If all these accounts can be confirmed then history will be rewritten, if not, then we would have exercised our imagination with a beautiful story.

:tu: One would tend to dismiss this.. but similar anomolous artifacts have been found in New Zealand as well. That can perhaps link this..

Edited by crystal sage

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SlimJim22

I agree that at 2,000bce whites had the most basic culture but am I right in thinking they descended from the Indo-iranian people. They were more advanced with Sanskrit at around this time if not before. The sumerians were probably Indo-Iranian would you agree? Then we have the semitic race that seems to have evolved out of Africa and the neara east. I'm not sure whetehr the story of Noah and the attribution of races as Hamitic, Semitic and Japhetic is help or hindrance to understanding the wider picture.

I find the suggestion of white mixing with aborigines a bit far fetched but only as much as other things I've discussed on here. The connection between white people (probably picts or scythians) and NZ I see as stronger because of the stories about stone circles and blue skinned people. I see this connection as more to do with culture tha race because from a racial perspective it is hard to see beyond an afro asiatic colonization of Oceania.

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Mr Supertypo

If I did, you will cry like a baby. You white people are lucky because of your government is keen to surpress the truth.

Suppressing the truth? Only in your dreams, and stop refering to white people as they were one giant individual. We are all individuals and you are no exception.

And now Astrioz du you have some evidence about this socalled conspiracy yes or not?

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warp10

Hi all

Astrios please spare us the false anger at the spirit children.

If you know anything about Aboriginal culture, then you would know that up until the eighties the Aboriginies were quite open about there past, I.E, the PALE/WHITE SKINNED ancestrial/ culter heros, that taught the aborigines

1/ the boomerang

2/ wommera in spear

3/astromony

4culture

5/ law, the list goes on and on but you won,t hear the Aborigines talk about the PALE/ WHITE SKINNED heros any more, it,s amazing what P.C madness and greedy land councils can accomplish, by the way these heros are called the URU, if you do your home work and open you eyes you may learn a thing or too??

cheers warp10

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Mr Supertypo

My eyes are always wide-opened, but not wellcoming apparent lies and hypocrisy.

then start at looking yourself at the mirror....where is the evidence? none...then the conspiracy of yours it's just a fantasy.

If your kind did not mix up the mongoloid natives, their cultures would thrive better than your hypocritic commercial hell, oh yea, the spirit-children!! is it your way to propagate stupidity?

and whats your way to propagate stupidity? spreading lyes about weird conspiracy and weird racial bs? and yet you show no evidence? do you know that a person who behave like this is a charlatan, Not saying you are, but they act like this.

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warp10

Hi all

Astrios you ask for proof of the Uru, simply look at Rex,s sites, or better still obtain some of his books/, but even better actually go and see the man see the thousands of pictures/ documents he has, there are thousands and thousands of NON aboriginal sites in OZ, so instead of flinging abuse, go on a field trip with him and be shown what there is in the Australian bush.

Did you know that many of the pyramidical mounds,ziggerhardt formations and other large structures he has found, are not claimed by the Aborigines, do you know why/ because THEY say themselves that these structures are NOT theres, well they used to up until P.C and land council, so before bashing rex to death find out what he has got!

cheers warp10

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jmccr8

Hello Astios,

I haven't been responding lately as I got a new toy and had to play with it for a while.I am somewhat confused with your spirit children,are you maintaining that there should be ethnic purity?I'm Irish and not just on the 14th of Ireland either,my daughter's mother is Jamacian and I find that children of blended blood to be beautiful and offer greater hope for a unified world if they are taught to love their heritage.I firmly believe that the whole truth is comprised within it's elements,in otherwords that everyone has a part of the truth and it is through learning about each other that these truths unfold.There is no one culture,religion,or group of people that can claim that they and they alone hold the lease on the past or future.jmccr8

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jmccr8

Thanks for the blessing and best wishes to you Astrios,

I am interested in hearing you position.You have implied that there was a global significance to serpent worship and this would indicate cultures that had interacted or were offshoots of an ancient culture.Either way we are talking about a culture that was mobile and the ability to travel the known world.If this is your proposal,can you show how this occured and what it's affect on the world of that time was?

As I have stated previously that I am not well versed in these areas and I find what others poster in this forum quite interesting as it gives me some insight into the history of mankind as well as some insight into the reasoning of others here.I would appreciate it if you could go into more depth with your position as it would help in understanding what you are proposing.You can pm me if you do not wish to discuss this in any depth here in the thread.jmccr8

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LCReborn

I recieved this message today from Jonathon Gray's "Forbidden Science" mailing list. Thought you guys and gals might be interested.

Robert this is one day late, but...

THE BANNED DISCOVERY

On Tuesday the 3rd of July, 2001, Terry M., a friend and three boys ranging in age from 7 ½ to 17 years, ventured into New Zealand's Waipoua forest for a bush walk and a look ast some ancient stone structures therein.

The Waipoua Forest sites were on public land, administered by the Department of Conservation. It was and is the right of all New Zealanders to hike throughout the area, with no known legal restriction posted by the Archaeological Division of DOC.

They were dismayed to find that timber felling was taking place between these ancient structures. For untold centuries these structures had survived – but now they might have an existence numbered in days.

Around 2.30 pm, they returned to their vehicle. This threatening note was tucked under a window wiper:

"You have entered this area

without prior authority and act

as thieves. The next time you do this

you will be treated as such and suffer loss."

What the discovery showed

Between the late1970s and the late 1980s, some extensive and very expensive archaeological excavations had been conducted in the Waipoua Forest.

Certain information was discovered, which could rewrite regional history overnight. It included evidence of a past Celtic presence. In New Zealand. much of the new information is astronomical in nature. Local structures also incorporate Northern Hemisphere geodetic, "ring of the Earth" navigational systems and Egyptian/ Indo European measurement standards.

Government clamp

When the significance of the Waipoua information was realised, certain New Zealand Government Departments produced an official archival document, which clearly showed an intention to withhold this archaeological information from the public for a period of 75 years.

Below is the "Embargo" document signed by Archaeologist, Michael Taylor. It states that neither the general public nor bona fide research workers were permitted to view the results of the digs until the year 2063. This archaeological information was deemed "top secret".

When a diligent researcher leaked to the public the news of this ban, many indignant people began writing to the National Archives for an explanation. They asked, why was this embargo put in place? Some questioned the legality of such imposed restrictions. Others contacted their Members of Parliament to force a release of information being withheld.

Among those who complained that they had no success in accessing the Waipoua Forest Archaeological Report were Noel Hilliam, Curator of the Dargaville Maritime Museum and Joan Leaf, Hokianga based Historian.

You see, in New Zealand, archaeological information, artefacts and skeletal evidence can be deemed secret, with knowledge deliberately withheld in the perceived interests of government policy.

Reason for the ban?

But.what was so threatening about archaeological finds that they needed to be "restricted"... How on earth could 2,000 ancient, stacked stone structures pose a threat to national security?

For a number of years, it has been taught that the original inhabitants of New Zealand were the Maori. And land ownership claims were being negotiated, based upon this assumption.

So the question arose, was the information derived from the dig threatening to the Maori claim of being the original inhabitants of New Zealand? Was it restricted on the basis that any devolution of such knowledge was disadvantageous to Maori claims of sovereignty?

And what caused Ned Nathan, head of the Te Roroa Archaeological Advisory Committee to exclaim, within earshot of witnesses, 'that's 500 years before we got here!'? This was allegedly stated as the group held in their hands a dating report.

Clamp removed

So it was that a huge body of historical information was earmarked for suppression and successfully hidden away for 8 years. It would have remained so unless someone was prepared to take up the cudgels and fight for the right to have it where it rightly belongs...in the public domain.

In 1996 researcher, Gary Cook tried without success to get a copy of the archaeological report covering the 70's-80's dig. In the end Gary had to acquire the services of a lawyer, who made submissions to the Ombudsman to force the lifting of the illegal embargo. To my knowledge, the restrictions would have remained in place until 2063, were the legalities not challenged, under law, through an incentive instigated by Gary Cook.

Life threatened

Despite the removal of the ban, everyone is dissuaded from going to visit the structures of the pre-Maori "Stone People".

In early 2000, Denis Welch, journalist for The New Zealand Listener Magazine, was told that he was not permitted to inspect the ruins.

In 1999, a film crew from Greenstone Pictures, making a documentary for TV1 titled, Who Was Here First, politely asked to film the structures. They also were refused by the Nathans and had to resort to filming Noel Hilliam's old photographs.

According to Martin Doutre, even now, visitors to the area who wish to visit the ruins, may be followed by carloads of locals who threaten them with violence if they don't leave the area. Noel Hilliam, Curator of the Dargaville Maritime Museum was warned to keep out of that archaeological forest area or his life would be in danger.

* * * * * * *

The Waipoua Forest suppression of information is but one of many attempts to dupe the New Zealand public and rob them of their true historical inheritance

Um, I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend you, but you ARE allowed to visit the site, but only with the Iwi's permission. The reason being that A Deed of Settlement between the Crown and the Iwi O Te Roroa was signed in 2005 and land that the stone structures were on within Waipoua, now sit under the ownership of Te Roroa which means this land is now private and you would need to gain permission from them in order to have access.

I have recently contacted them, and they were EXTREMELY helpful and showed no sign of aggression, the only time it is shown is when you go onto THEIR private land without prior permission. They were even kind enough to give me access to the archaeological records that are held at archives NZ, none of which have any embargo placed upon them. It is possible to view the findings without their permission, but I wasn't a member of their reading rooms, so the Iwi gave me access to their own reader card and info.

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kmt_sesh

Um, I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend you, but you ARE allowed to visit the site, but only with the Iwi's permission. The reason being that A Deed of Settlement between the Crown and the Iwi O Te Roroa was signed in 2005 and land that the stone structures were on within Waipoua, now sit under the ownership of Te Roroa which means this land is now private and you would need to gain permission from them in order to have access.

I have recently contacted them, and they were EXTREMELY helpful and showed no sign of aggression, the only time it is shown is when you go onto THEIR private land without prior permission. They were even kind enough to give me access to the archaeological records that are held at archives NZ, none of which have any embargo placed upon them. It is possible to view the findings without their permission, but I wasn't a member of their reading rooms, so the Iwi gave me access to their own reader card and info.

Welcome to UM, LCReborn. Your post is relevant and on-topic and is useful in counteracting incorrect information, but did you notice the date of the post to which you were responding? It's from over ten years ago. I'm not sure I even recognize the name of the poster who wrote it and I'm a Moderator here. All of this is to say, don't expect a reply from Chauncy anytime soon. Always double-check the date of the post to which you're responding.

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Harte

Information provided by LCReborn on this topic is still very welcome and I'm glad he posted it.

Welcome to the forum LC. Always happy to have a reasoning mind here.

Harte

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Podo

Thread revival is legitimate, I think, if something is being offered to the discussion. It certainly beats creating a whole new thread for one piece of information.

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Bavarian Raven

Oh gods it lives. It's like a zombie back from the dead. :no::gun:

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