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Blair to be named EU President 'within weeks'


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Actually I was point to how much people really know about the EU. People in the UK certainly don't as the media makes crap up about it.

So you're implying that the british people don't really know enough about the E.U. to make an informed decision.

In which case why would we want to be part of a quango of nations that make rules that affect us when we don't know enough about them?

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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http://ec.europa.eu/...h/fl_245_en.pdf

hmm...'Flash Eurobarometer' funded by....European Commission

p.s. now how about another referendum...best out of 3. afterall it's still only 1 all, doubt it somehow now they.ve got the answer they wanted. Ah well, that democracy for ya.

And that these guys paid for the disinformation campaign that led to the Irish no lat time does not make you think?

The principal anti-Lisbon campaigner was a new group called Libertas, founded by Pro-U.S.Republican Declan Ganley, whose company Rivada Networks http://www.rivada.com/about/keypersonnel/declanjganley.htm has on its board people who served the US

military, and others such as Don De Marino, who worked for the Reagan and Bush Senior

Administrations. Ganley has described his views about Europe in

http://www.fpri.org/ww/0405.200312.ganley.euconstitution.html

http://www.fpri.org/enotes/20030311.ganley.europedirection.html

He would prefer a Europe that was pro-US and that was free to have pan-European political parties that could elect a US style-president, and do US-style things in the world to make it a ‘free and safe place’.

FPRI: Who are they? The Foreign Policy Research Institute is a Neo-Con US support

group for the Bush Administration, the American Military Complex, which looks for support for the War in Iraq. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040510/press/3

Source

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Former minister Gisela Stuart says Lisbon Treaty would create 'democratic deficit'

Gisela Stuart, the Labour MP who helped draw up the controversial EU Lisbon Treaty has warned that it puts the nature of British democracy at stake.

The former health minister, said the treaty breached a fundamental principle that voters should be able to remove politicians who are in power.

Miss Stuart sat on the committee which devised the original EU constitution, and which later became the basis of the Lisbon Treaty.

Miss Stuart said the treaty would create a "democratic deficit" if passed.

"The nature of democracy is really at stake," she said.

"My basic test of democracy is: can I get rid of them? By casting a vote, you can change the people who are in control of you."

The former law lecturer and MP for Birmingham Edgbaston added: "Lisbon does not give you, as a citizen, the means to control the executive or the politicians who decide on your behalf, and that's the hurdle it fails on."

Well, this lady should know a thing or two about it.

link :- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/state-of-europe/6209155/Former-minister-Gisela-Stuart-says-Lisbon-Treaty-would-create-democratic-deficit.html

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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As you see, the question posed to the Irish electorate was about the Treaty of Lisbon, but they voted on all kinds of stuff except that.

Do you honestly believe that they voted on the Treaty this time?

Not that there will be a Post Referendum survey sponsored by the European Commission this time around, as they no longer need an excuse for a third vote - but if there was, I'm certain that it would say that the Irish electorate thought they were voting on whether or not the EU would cut off it's funding.

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The former law lecturer and MP for Birmingham Edgbaston added: "Lisbon does not give you, as a citizen, the means to control the executive or the politicians who decide on your behalf, and that's the hurdle it fails on."

Damm true, that would have only happened if the Constitution would have passed, but that failed with the same disinformation campaign that caused the first Irish No. Now you have to settle for second best and hope that some day Constitution II is written.

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Do you honestly believe that they voted on the Treaty this time?

Not that there will be a Post Referendum survey sponsored by the European Commission this time around, as they no longer need an excuse for a third vote - but if there was, I'm certain that it would say that the Irish electorate thought they were voting on whether or not the EU would cut off it's funding.

Be it as it may, this time they voted more in their interest than falling for the campaign controlled by American neo-cons.

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post-39751-125460307704_thumb.jpg

Barroso the European Union Commission President said "Now that all Member States have democratically approved the Lisbon Treaty," , "I hope that the necessary procedures for its entry into force can be completed as quickly as possible in Poland and the Czech Republic. Today was indeed a great day for the European Union."

yea right.

post-39751-125460339979_thumb.jpg

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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When and where was that photo taken, Osama bin laden seems to be in drag standing to Browns right.

Now that all Member States have democratically approved the Lisbon Treaty,

is Barrosso having a laugh, hes winding us up,

Edited by stevewinn
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So you're implying that the british people don't really know enough about the E.U. to make an informed decision.

In which case why would we want to be part of a quango of nations that make rules that affect us when we don't know enough about them?

Because it funds many major projects in the UK, provides businesses with better trade over Europe and provides excellent science and education initiatives. Are you suggest that ignorance of little Engladers is a reason to leave the EU?

Edited by Mattshark
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The total gross cost to the UK of EU membership in 2008 they estimate at around £65,000,000,000* - including:

£28 billion for business to comply with EU regulations,

£17 billion of additional food costs resulting from the Common Agricultural Policy

£3.3 billion - the value of the catch lost when the Common Fisheries Policy let other countries fish in our territorial waters

£14.6 billion gross paid into the EU budget and other EU funds

In 2008 we will "benefit" from £5.2 billion of EU spending in Britain (spent out of our money). This is usually deducted from our gross contribution to give a net cost. However £2.4 billion of this is for agricultural subsidies

Much of the rest of the money we receive from the EU budget has to be spent on projects approved by the EU. Bizarrely, the rules say that these must be projects which would not otherwise be funded by public money. In other words - things which our own Government does not want to do. So we'd be much better off if we kept our own money, and did not have the agricultural subsidies or EU projects. We could devise a much more effective system of our own to support our farmers. We could hardly devise a less effective one.

The total budget for EU 'administration' alone is £34 billion. The European Commission claims on its website to employ 25,000 staff. The true figure, according to an Open Europe study in August 2008, is 170,000. Nearly 10,000 of these receive over £54,000 pa - over twice as many as in the whole of Whitehall.

Britain's new EU Commissioner, Baroness Ashton, will get £750,000 for just one year's service - including £200,000 in salary, £250,000 in "transitional payments" on leaving her post, and a raft of perks. She will also get an annual pension of £8,000 pa for one years service - twice what a UK pensioner gets for a lifetime of work.

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Be it as it may, this time they voted more in their interest than falling for the campaign controlled by American neo-cons.

The Neo-Con angle I wasn't aware of. That does make the entire thing much more interesting.

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The total gross cost to the UK of EU membership in 2008 they estimate at around £65,000,000,000* - including:

£28 billion for business to comply with EU regulations,

£17 billion of additional food costs resulting from the Common Agricultural Policy

£3.3 billion - the value of the catch lost when the Common Fisheries Policy let other countries fish in our territorial waters

£14.6 billion gross paid into the EU budget and other EU funds

In 2008 we will "benefit" from £5.2 billion of EU spending in Britain (spent out of our money). This is usually deducted from our gross contribution to give a net cost. However £2.4 billion of this is for agricultural subsidies

Much of the rest of the money we receive from the EU budget has to be spent on projects approved by the EU. Bizarrely, the rules say that these must be projects which would not otherwise be funded by public money. In other words - things which our own Government does not want to do. So we'd be much better off if we kept our own money, and did not have the agricultural subsidies or EU projects. We could devise a much more effective system of our own to support our farmers. We could hardly devise a less effective one.

The total budget for EU 'administration' alone is £34 billion. The European Commission claims on its website to employ 25,000 staff. The true figure, according to an Open Europe study in August 2008, is 170,000. Nearly 10,000 of these receive over £54,000 pa - over twice as many as in the whole of Whitehall.

Britain's new EU Commissioner, Baroness Ashton, will get £750,000 for just one year's service - including £200,000 in salary, £250,000 in "transitional payments" on leaving her post, and a raft of perks. She will also get an annual pension of £8,000 pa for one years service - twice what a UK pensioner gets for a lifetime of work.

All very nice...and how much money flows back, that otherwise would not, because Britain is member of the EU?

Fact is that all the plus on the British trade balance comes from the EU, the trade with non-EU countries is negative, as this nice graph shows:

199.gif

Ah yes, the Source

Edited by questionmark
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All very nice...and how much money flows back, that otherwise would not, because Britain is member of the EU?

Fact is that all the plus on the British trade balance comes from the EU, the trade with non-EU countries is negative, as this nice graph shows:

199.gif

Ah yes, the Source

hmm...lovely graph. that would be months along the bottom & billions up the side, plus a jagged solid line & a dotted not so jagged line. nice.

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CIVITAS

Institute for the Study of Civil Society

Background Briefing

The Costs and Benefits of the European Union

Would we be better off if we left?

If the UK were to leave the EU, there would be no net loss of jobs or trade. In addition, we would be between £17 billion and £40 billion per year better off, possibly more. These are the findings of A Cost Too Far?, published by Civitas.

Prime Minister Blair often claims that 60 per cent of the UK’s trade and three million jobs ‘depend on’ our EU membership. Closer analysis reveals this to be a highly misleading claim.

Sixty Per Cent of Our Trade? The first problem with Mr Blair’s statement is that it refers to ‘goods’ and not ‘goods and services’. In 2002, 59 per cent of UK exports of ‘goods’ were exported to the other 14 EU countries. However, it is more usual to count exports of both ‘goods and services’ and, in 2002, UK exports of goods and services to the EU comprised about 52 per cent of the UK total. This figure needs to be adjusted for the Rotterdam-Antwerp distortion. These two huge ports serve as transit points for goods on their way to other parts of the world, but the official figures assume that goods sent there are going to the EU. After adjustment, 48 per cent of UK exports of goods and services go to the EU.

Full report :- http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/EUFactsheet.php

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Lets just say this, the UK has nothing to lose if it was to pull out of the European Union. anyone who thinks otherwise are plant pots

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we trade at a deficit with the EU, 75% of our laws made by bureaucrats in Brussels. we pay more in than what we get out. dictated to with stupid EU legislation. we must be mad, just mad to continue.

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we trade at a deficit with the EU, 75% of our laws made by bureaucrats in Brussels. we pay more in than what we get out. dictated to with stupid EU legislation. we must be mad, just mad to continue.

Apart from the fact that we have a even bigger deficit with non-EU nation, large funding with objective 1 for British cities left to rot by our own government, science funding, educational work, business dealings and the fact that a lot of those laws we had anyway.

We are nothing as a nation with out Europe.

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I'd say , leave EU and join EFTA... Gain all the benefits of trade and not having to follow Brussel like some lapdog...

Just found this by accident: British reaction to the creation of the EEC was mixed and complex. Consequently France vetoed British membership fearing that the Anglo-Saxons planned a federal super-state modeled on the USA

The irony :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association#Political_History

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Please sir, can I have a bigger, more unaccountable Government with lots more rules..

I need to be told what to do.

Thanks.

plus I don't need to change my money when I go on holiday.. burp

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I'd say , leave EU and join EFTA... Gain all the benefits of trade and not having to follow Brussel like some lapdog...

Just found this by accident: British reaction to the creation of the EEC was mixed and complex. Consequently France vetoed British membership fearing that the Anglo-Saxons planned a federal super-state modeled on the USA

The irony :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association#Political_History

Eh....the French have a lot of blame to go around these days...they blamed the banking crisis on Anglo-Saxon banking....they only get paranoid concerning their allies.... ^_^

seax B)

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im guessing the vote is still being counted? haven't seen one small thing about a New EU president on our news.......you would think even the build up to this would make our news.....since this guy (tony blair i think?) will be as big as Obama except for the East

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Apart from the fact that we have a even bigger deficit with non-EU nation, large funding with objective 1 for British cities left to rot by our own government, science funding, educational work, business dealings and the fact that a lot of those laws we had anyway.

We are nothing as a nation with out Europe.

I expected that from you, that's the sort of defeatist attitude we don't need. disgusting to say the least.

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We're nothing as a nation with Europe.

Like they care... 've must look after the UK'... yeah right.

Most of them hate us; the Greeks, Spanish, French and Germans..

Because we side with America and make em speak english ah ho ho haa haa! :lol:

Bonjour? γειά σου?

No, :no: sorry I don't understand, have you got mental problems? it's 'hello'

Speak English Europe ah hhaaa HAAA...

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heh, you did not check whose propaganda you are divulging before you posted, innit?

In that case whose propoganda is this :-

Former minister Gisela Stuart says Lisbon Treaty would create 'democratic deficit'

Gisela Stuart, the Labour MP who helped draw up the controversial EU Lisbon Treaty has warned that it puts the nature of British democracy at stake.

The former health minister, said the treaty breached a fundamental principle that voters should be able to remove politicians who are in power.

Miss Stuart sat on the committee which devised the original EU constitution, and which later became the basis of the Lisbon Treaty.

Miss Stuart said the treaty would create a "democratic deficit" if passed.

"The nature of democracy is really at stake," she said.

"My basic test of democracy is: can I get rid of them? By casting a vote, you can change the people who are in control of you."

The former law lecturer and MP for Birmingham Edgbaston added: "Lisbon does not give you, as a citizen, the means to control the executive or the politicians who decide on your behalf, and that's the hurdle it fails on."

Hey, but when has a little thing like Democracy stopped this govenment....innit.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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