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Could Yahweh have been a volcano god?


ChloeB

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The tribe of the Levites, with whom Moses was associated, was another matter altogether. They worshiped a thundering, fierce god, whose location was either Mount Horeb, or Mount Sinai. Very likely the two mountains are one and the same -- there is no proof either way. Was this god the same Yahweh, the God of Abraham? Very possibly. If not, the two entities, Yahweh of Abraham and the warrior god of the Levites were combined into one impressive entity that Moses, very likely a full-blooded Levite himself, had adopted as his own God. That is proven by the fact that later, only the Levites acted as priests toYahweh in the various Temples.

The Israelites had to physically leave Egypt to worship Yahweh. They could not, under any circumstances, worship Him in Egypt, because they could not even see him there. Exodus is very specific as to what they had to see: "They took their journey from Succoth and encamped at Etham, in the edge of the wilderness. The Lord Yahweh went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night (Exodus 13:21)." This is a clear and simple description of an active volcano- - smoke by day, fire by night.

Then, to fully prove this assumption, they gathered around this mountain, and were told that they were never to climb or touch it, on danger of death. "Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever touchesth the mount shall be surely put to death (Exodus 19:12)." The mountain must have been dangerously hot to the touch. The passage continues: "And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord Yahweh descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly." Another clear description of an active volcano. And at this emotionally impressive location Moses gave the Israelites a Code of Law, and reforged a covenant which was to become the basis for the development of monotheism.

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Exodus 19:16 (King James Version)

16And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

Exodus 20:18 (King James Version)

18And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.

Deuteronomy 4:11 (King James Version)

11And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness.

Deuteronomy 4:12 (King James Version)

12And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.

Deuteronomy 9:21 (King James Version)

21And I took your sin, the calf which ye had made, and burnt it with fire, and stamped it, and ground it very small, even until it was as small as dust: and I cast the dust thereof into the brook that descended out of the mount.

Psalm 11 (King James Version)

6Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

Psalm 18 (King James Version)

7Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.

8There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.

Psalm 50 (King James Version)

3Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 89 (King James Version)

46How long, LORD? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire?

Psalm 97 (King James Version)

3A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.

4His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled.

5The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

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Was Yahweh a storm god?

Many passages in the Deuteronomic corpus instructed Israel that Yahweh, not Baal, held the power over water, storm, and prosperity in the land and were thereby launching a literary attack against Baalism.

...

In the Hebrew Bible, Baal is referred to more than any other Canaanite deity: a total of seventy-six times—eighteen times in the plural and fifty-eight times in the singular, the latter always accompanied by the definite article.12 M. J. Mulder observes, "the OT does not reveal whether another unknown divine name lies hidden behind the name Baal, e.g., Hadad. However, it does confirm the impression made by the Ugaritic texts that it has in mind Baal par excellence, the god of storm and fertility."13 The strong denunciation of Baal in the Old Testament lends itself to the notion that the Baal cult had deeply penetrated Israelite culture. Otherwise the issue would not have unleashed such a vehement literary attack against Baalism, best represented in the Deuteronomic History.

...

The Lord told the Israelites that if they were obedient, they could possess the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 11:8). He also told them that if they kept his commandments, he would give rain in its proper season (Deuteronomy 11:14). However, he also warned, "Beware not to be lured away to serve other gods. . . . For the Lord's anger will be kindled against you, and he will shut up the skies so that there will be no rain and the ground will not yield its produce; and you will soon perish from the good land" (Deuteronomy 11:16—17). As the Israelites left the desert and entered Canaan, they entered a lavish agricultural territory unknown to them. When an unpredictable climate was encountered and their faith was tried, some may have asked their Canaanite neighbors something like, "What do you do to insure the fertility of the land?" This seems to have led many Israelites into false worship, which culminated in their embracing Baalism and eventually led them into exile.

....

{my comments: the following is a comparison of the Hebrew text and the Ugaritic text. I did no research on this so I know nothing about Ugaritic text but present this information since it reveals Yahweh in full water god mode.}

And she said unto the men, I know that the Lord has given you the land and that your terror has come upon us, for all the inhabitants of the land are melting because of you. For we have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea for you . . . And when we had heard these things, our hearts melted, and there did not arise again spirit in any man, because of you; for Yahweh is your God, he is God in heaven and earth beneath. (Joshua 2:9—11)19

Drive Sea from his throne, River from the seat of his dominion. You shall swoop in the hands of Baal, like an eagle in his fingers. Strike the head of Prince Sea, between the eyes of Judge River. Let Sea sink and fall to the earth. And the stick swoops in Baal's hands like an eagle in his fingers. It strikes the head of Prince [sea], between the eyes of Judge River. Sea sinks, falls to the earth, his joints fail, his frame collapses. Baal pounces and drinks Sea, he destroys Judge River. (KTU 1.2.IV:19—27)21

...

Yahweh confused them (Amorites) before Israel, and smote them with a great smiting at Gibeon, and pursued them towards the ascent of Beth-horon, and the Lord smote them until Azekah and Makkedah. And it came to pass in their fleeing before Israel they were descending at Beth-horon, Yahweh threw upon them great stones from heaven until Azekah, and they died; there were more who died from the (hail) stones than who died because of the sword of the Israelites. (Joshua 10:10—11)

The word of a tree

The whisper of a stone

murmur of heaven with earth

the deep with the stars

stones of lightning which heaven does not know

a matter which people do not know

and the multitude of the earth do not understand

I will execute, and I will reveal it in the midst of my mountain, the godly Zephon. (KTU 1.3.III:22—29)

...

And Gideon said to God, "If you really expect to deliver Israel by my hand, as you have said, Behold, I will set a fleece of wool on the threshing floor; and if dew falls only on the fleece and all the ground stays dry, I will know that you will deliver Israel through me, as you said you would." And it was so; for he rose up early the next day and he squeezed the fleece and wrung out the dew out of the fleece, a bowlful of water. Then Gideon said to God, "Do not be angry with me if I speak just once more. Please let me prove only this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew." And God did so that night; for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all of the ground. (Judges 6:36—40)

Seven years shall Baal fail,

Eight the rider of clouds

There shall be no dew, no rain

No surging of the deeps,

Neither the goodness of Baal's voice. (KTU 1.19.I:42—46)

http://mi.byu.edu/publications/papers/?paperID=8&chapterID=66

I myself believe God is master of all elements and behind all of Nature but I can understand how in antiquity if everyone within a region was a polytheist then suddenly there was an introduction of monotheism (I am not claiming Yahweh is the first deity to have a monotheistic following either) that at first this new deity would seem like another among many. They would ascribe polytheistic qualities towards it and think of this deity in polytheistic terms.

Within ancient Israelite society the debate continued no doubt for centuries between whether Jews would develop into a monotheistic society or continue polytheistic trends.

This could mean that God truly is just another deity who got a swell head, or whose followers did, or it could mean that Moses and Abraham actually communed with the Creator and it just took time for some to absorb this and accept that One deity could be behind it all.

The most ancient of man would have seen nature in its full clarity, exposed to it much more than modern men, in their eyes everything would have seen vivid and sharp. Reductionism might have come into play so that one god was behind the lightning and another was behind bodies of water yet they might not have known that bodies of water lead to clouds which lead to lighting and it is all connected the whole of this world.

Edited by Rosewin
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Was Yahweh a storm god?

I myself believe God is master of all elements and behind all of Nature but I can understand how in antiquity if everyone within a region was a polytheist then suddenly there was an introduction of monotheism (I am not claiming Yahweh is the first deity to have a monotheistic following either) that at first this new deity would seem like another among many. They would ascribe polytheistic qualities towards it and think of this deity in polytheistic terms.

Within ancient Israelite society the debate continued no doubt for centuries between whether Jews would develop into a monotheistic society or continue polytheistic trends.

This could mean that God truly is just another deity who got a swell head, or whose followers did, or it could mean that Moses and Abraham actually communed with the Creator and it just took time for some to absorb this and accept that One deity could be behind it all.

The most ancient of man would have seen nature in its full clarity, exposed to it much more than modern men, in their eyes everything would have seen vivid and sharp. Reductionism might have come into play so that one god was behind the lightning and another was behind bodies of water yet they might not have known that bodies of water lead to clouds which lead to lighting and it is all connected the whole of this world.

It seems to me that Yahweh could have been an amalgamation of several of the primary deities as groups merged whereas today we would know better than to deify a volcanic eruption or storms, but lacking the knowledge we have now about how these things work, the causes, they called them gods which monotheists eventually combined into one.

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I would not say 'we know better' since many pagans still might use the energies of a volcano or a storm but they certainly understand science but also might have an 'experience' with their chosen deity. After all some see all of the Universe as God and still worship God.

I agree though totally with your statement and found the volcano god angle quite interesting. Good find.

Edited by Rosewin
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I would not say 'we know better' since many pagans still might use the energies of a volcano or a storm but they certainly understand science but also might have an 'experience' with their chosen deity. After all some see all of the Universe as God and still worship God.

I agree though totally with your statement and found the volcano god angle quite interesting. Good find.

Sure, I can relate to that. I can't help but be moved by a beautiful sunset or even a simple rainbow and wonder if there isn't some bigger than ourselves out there responsible. To me they were all coming from the same place, some chose to separate God into different aspects, some into one encompassing it all.

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Even if I believed it was just randomness responsible for the sunset and rainbow I would just want to worship Randomness.

Edited by Rosewin
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I think the Volcano God makes a lot of sense and those passages do seem to point in that direction as much of it does once you start thinking about God as a volcano...nice topic. The pillar of smoke by day part makes alot of sense then...burning bushes, sacred mountains...all very volcanic activities, Hephaestus being the chief creator in Greek myth, God of volcanoes, so why not God as well...I reckon that's it, he is a volcano God. I'm going to check this out more, thanks.

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Having had the Thera volcano around 1600BC the volcanic and seismic activity around the Aegean, Turkey and also down the Rift Valley fault through Canaan would have rumbled, how scary would that have been for everyone having seen what happened on Thera/Santorini, the destruction that caused throughout the area and the end of the cultures there, that would have been a very powerful thing to be frightened of, harness that fright of that power and what a tremendously powerful God you have indeed. I like this theory of God being a volcano, it works really well, especially since it sits well with Greek myth of Hephaestus seeding creation.

Edit to add:

Freud took it that the god Yahweh whose name was attached to the new cult was originally a Midianite volcano god. For what it is worth that element of his speculation seems now to be generally accepted by biblical scholars.

http://heresiarch.org/talkgod.php

Edited by The Puzzler
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Having had the Thera volcano around 1600BC the volcanic and seismic activity around the Aegean, Turkey and also down the Rift Valley fault through Canaan would have rumbled, how scary would that have been for everyone having seen what happened on Thera/Santorini, the destruction that caused throughout the area and the end of the cultures there, that would have been a very powerful thing to be frightened of, harness that fright of that power and what a tremendously powerful God you have indeed. I like this theory of God being a volcano, it works really well, especially since it sits well with Greek myth of Hephaestus seeding creation.

Edit to add:

Freud took it that the god Yahweh whose name was attached to the new cult was originally a Midianite volcano god. For what it is worth that element of his speculation seems now to be generally accepted by biblical scholars.

http://heresiarch.org/talkgod.php

That is really interesting about Freud. I was reading a book that had maybe about 5 pages of this about the volcano, and I thought it made a lot of sense too, but I don't have a lot of information on it so I was hoping to get some feedback here. One thing it did mention in this book that I forgot to mention was about the name Yahweh and it mentioned that the word yahveh in Sanskrit means overflowing, possibly suggestive of lava from a volcanic eruption.

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That is really interesting about Freud. I was reading a book that had maybe about 5 pages of this about the volcano, and I thought it made a lot of sense too, but I don't have a lot of information on it so I was hoping to get some feedback here. One thing it did mention in this book that I forgot to mention was about the name Yahweh and it mentioned that the word yahveh in Sanskrit means overflowing, possibly suggestive of lava from a volcanic eruption.

Right, sounds like it would make sense too. Seems it is a popular opinion too by those in the know, Freud and Biblical scholars... I am very glad you bought it to my attention, being a Puzzler that is certainly an important puzzle piece I needed! :tu: Yahweh a volcano God, how did I miss it????? :blink:

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Right, sounds like it would make sense too. Seems it is a popular opinion too by those in the know, Freud and Biblical scholars... I am very glad you bought it to my attention, being a Puzzler that is certainly an important puzzle piece I needed! :tu: Yahweh a volcano God, how did I miss it????? :blink:

Let me know if you come across anything else.

Here's a couple more verses I didn't include earlier:

Exodus 24:17 (King James Version)

17And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 5:4 (King James Version)

4The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

Edited by ChloeB
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Freud took it that the god Yahweh whose name was attached to the new cult was originally a Midianite volcano god. For what it is worth that element of his speculation seems now to be generally accepted by biblical scholars.

http://heresiarch.org/talkgod.php

I am glad you brought up this Midianite volcano god because I found some more information.

Some scholars think that the Mt. Sinai in the Bible was actually Mt. Bedr in northwestern Saudi Arabia. The biblical Moses’ father-in-law was a priest in Midian, which is in Saudi Arabia. When the biblical Moses had his burning bush experience, it is likely that it was in Midian. The Midian culture at that time worshiped a mountain god called Jahve.

My link

Jahve

Babylon English-Turkish

jahve

i. yehova

German Turkish Buyuk Sozluk

Jahve

; Jahwe s. Jehova

My link

Edited by ChloeB
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  • 3 years later...
 

Thought I might give some input on this old topic rather opening up a new topic. Here are some articles you might consider reading :

Newsvine:

Mountain GOD Worship: Yahweh, God of the Mountains.

Yahweh: The Worshiping Of A Volcano Fire God Of War

I have updated the articles with new information to which goes over some deeper details of the origins of Yahweh, and mount Sinai..

However, I really don't like the new Newsvine face lift as it's hard to see what are links and what are not links.. So you might find them easier to read on Wordpress.com here:

http://thejackelscol...ire-god-of-war/

http://thejackelscol...-the-mountains/

Cheers!

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  • 1 year later...

Good thing I used the search feature, because I was going to start a thread with this:

The Volcanology of God?

Some verses in the Old Testament sounds like Volcano worship?

Exodus 13

21 By day the Lord went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night. 22 Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.

Exodus 19

9 The Lord said to Moses, “I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you.” Then Moses told the Lord what the people had said.

12 Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, ‘Be careful that you do not approach the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death. 13 They are to be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on them. No person or animal shall be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they approach the mountain.”

16 On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. 17 Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. 18 Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently. 19 As the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.

20 The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up 21 and the Lord said to him, “Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish. 22 Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.”

Exodus 20

18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”

20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”

21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.

Exodus 24

15 When Moses went up on the mountain, the cloud covered it, 16 and the glory of the Lord settled on Mount Sinai. For six days the cloud covered the mountain, and on the seventh day the Lord called to Moses from within the cloud. 17 To the Israelites the glory of the Lord looked like a consuming fire on top of the mountain. 18 Then Moses entered the cloud as he went on up the mountain. And he stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights.

Deuteronomy 4

11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.

15 You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire.

24 For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

36 From heaven he made you hear his voice to discipline you. On earth he showed you his great fire, and you heard his words from out of the fire.

Deuteronomy 5

4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the Lord and you to declare to you the word of the Lord, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

6 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

22 These are the commandments the Lord proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.

23 When you heard the voice out of the darkness, while the mountain was ablaze with fire, all the leaders of your tribes and your elders came to me. 24 And you said, “The Lord our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a person can live even if God speaks with them. 25 But now, why should we die? This great fire will consume us, and we will die if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any longer. 26 For what mortal has ever heard the voice of the living God speaking out of fire, as we have, and survived? 27 Go near and listen to all that the Lord our God says. Then tell us whatever the Lord our God tells you. We will listen and obey.”

Deuteronomy 9

3 But be assured today that the Lord your God is the one who goes across ahead of you like a devouring fire. He will destroy them; he will subdue them before you. And you will drive them out and annihilate them quickly, as the Lord has promised you.

10 The Lord gave me two stone tablets inscribed by the finger of God. On them were all the commandments the Lord proclaimed to you on the mountain out of the fire, on the day of the assembly.

15 So I turned and went down from the mountain while it was ablaze with fire. And the two tablets of the covenant were in my hands.

19 I feared the anger and wrath of the Lord, for he was angry enough with you to destroy you. But again the Lord listened to me. 20 And the Lord was angry enough with Aaron to destroy him, but at that time I prayed for Aaron too. 21 Also I took that sinful thing of yours, the calf (Golden Calf) you had made, and burned it in the fire. Then I crushed it and ground it to powder as fine as dust and threw the dust into a stream that flowed down the mountain.

Micah 1

3 Look! The Lord is coming from his dwelling place;

he comes down and treads on the heights of the earth.

4 The mountains melt beneath him

and the valleys split apart,

like wax before the fire,

like water rushing down a slope.

6 “Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of rubble,

a place for planting vineyards.

I will pour her stones into the valley

and lay bare her foundations.

7 All her idols will be broken to pieces;

all her temple gifts will be burned with fire;

I will destroy all her images.

Since she gathered her gifts from the wages of prostitutes,

as the wages of prostitutes they will again be used.”

Psalm 18

2 The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;

my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge,

my shield and the horn[c] of my salvation, my stronghold.

7 The earth trembled and quaked,

and the foundations of the mountains shook;

they trembled because he was angry.

8 Smoke rose from his nostrils;

consuming fire came from his mouth,

burning coals blazed out of it.

9 He parted the heavens and came down;

dark clouds were under his feet.

10 He mounted the cherubim and flew;

he soared on the wings of the wind.

11 He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him—

the dark rain clouds of the sky.

12 Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced,

with hailstones and bolts of lightning.

13 The Lord thundered from heaven;

the voice of the Most High resounded.[d]

14 He shot his arrows and scattered the enemy,

with great bolts of lightning he routed them.

15 The valleys of the sea were exposed

and the foundations of the earth laid bare

at your rebuke, Lord,

at the blast of breath from your nostrils.

Psalm 50

3 Our God comes

and will not be silent;

a fire devours before him,

and around him a tempest rages.

Psalm 89

46 How long, Lord? Will you hide yourself forever?

How long will your wrath burn like fire?

Psalm 97

2 Clouds and thick darkness surround him;

righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.

3 Fire goes before him

and consumes his foes on every side.

4 His lightning lights up the world;

the earth sees and trembles.

5 The mountains melt like wax before the Lord,

before the Lord of all the earth.

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