Health care an earned right?

[Mr Honeybadger]

I do home school, via a public charter.....which happens to be about the best education a kid could get, now a days, short of living with college professors....

The kicker is this: its gov't. funded public education..............in the state of CA which is the worst educational system in the US in my opinion.....

There is no reason we shouldn't have universal health care....

I respect your opinion and share your positive views on home schooling. But I just think that there is so much that can be done to clean-up and "fix" our current health care system and promote free-market competition. I just hate to see government get it's dirty hands in even deeper in the health care industry. Sorry but I often see government intervention as a problem more often than being a solution to anything.

[Caesar]

That 46 million number — which to be exact, is actually 45.7 million — comes from the U.S. Census Bureau, which releases estimates of the uninsured yearly. That estimate is for 2007, and the data were released in 2008. (The 2008 data are scheduled for release on Sept. 10, 2009.)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/18/barack-obama/number-those-without-health-insurance-about-46-mil/

It's even worse because so many have lost their jobs

How much of that number makes up people that make over 75k a year, teens and illegal aliens?

[SQLserver]

Do you really think the US public education system is even remotely okay?

No, but how would privatizing it make it any better?

The problem here is NOT the government: It is the general anti-educational, anti-intellectual feel that too many Americans have.

Sheri, I disagree with you on homeschooling. A child needs an educational curriculum planned by experts and taught by people who know what they are doing, not to mention certain social skills and interactions. Parents, and home school in general, cannot provide any of these.

[Splodgenessabounds]

Forget it. Pseudo's post already answered.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Splodgenessabounds

[Splodgenessabounds]

How much of that number makes up people that make over 75k a year, teens and illegal aliens?

Take out non-US citizens and the number drops to about 35.7 million.

[SQLserver]

Wow... I found this article from CSM:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0609/p02s13-usgn.html

Only 69.2% of students even graduate high school!

That's... shocking. I have never known a high school drop out(Perhaps maybe a few IN high school, but none I can name), and very few people I know did not go to college, or aren't planning to.

[Caesar]

About 10.2 million illegal immigrants.

14 million people who are eligible for public health-care.

about 10 million of the 'uninsured' have household incomes of more than $75,000

source and full article

[ninjadude]

But I just think that there is so much that can be done to clean-up and "fix" our current health care system and promote free-market competition.

exactly what the health care reform bills do.

[Caesar]

Wow... I found this article from CSM:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0609/p02s13-usgn.html

Only 69.2% of students even graduate high school!

That's... shocking. I have never known a high school drop out(Perhaps maybe a few IN high school, but none I can name), and very few people I know did not go to college, or aren't planning to.

At one time about 25% of students in Detroit graduate from high school, but then again they lead the way in crime and unemployment also.

[ninjadude]

How much of that number makes up people that make over 75k a year, teens and illegal aliens?

So... they're not entitled to healthcare? is that your position.

[Caesar]

So... they're not entitled to healthcare? is that your position.

Why give it to them if they make over 75k a year, are eligible for public health-care programs but have yet to enroll or they are illegal immigrants?

[MissMelsWell]

No, but how would privatizing it make it any better?

The problem here is NOT the government: It is the general anti-educational, anti-intellectual feel that too many Americans have.

Sheri, I disagree with you on homeschooling. A child needs an educational curriculum planned by experts and taught by people who know what they are doing, not to mention certain social skills and interactions. Parents, and home school in general, cannot provide any of these.

DON'T EVEN go there.. don't derail this important issue to homeschooling.. that happens in FAR too many threads around here. But I will get my word in here on it--you're dead wrong. My proof is a college educated, post grad student who's at work right now at Xbox as a lead test engineer, after work she'll be joining her friends for a night out for fun. not stupid, not socially retarded, not anti-intellectual... in fact, she'd run intellectual rings around 99% of people. Homeschooled (actually unschooled) K-12, Evergreen State University alumni.

[Wickian]

I believe health care is a privilege. It's not the government's responsibility to make sure you get your check-ups or are guaranteed a surgery. There's a little something called personal responsibility that people need to be aware of.

I am well aware there are plenty of situations where not having health insurance is simply out of your hands, but like it or not life isn't fair and to blame the government because of this fact is wrong.

If they want to create a public option to help their citizens, I'm all for it as long as they remove that "penalty tax" for those who choose not to participate.

[ninjadude]

Why give it to them if they make over 75k a year, are eligible for public health-care programs but have yet to enroll or they are illegal immigrants?

No one is giving anything. They would have to pay premiums. To answer your question, a society has a vested interest in the good health of its citizens.

[ninjadude]

I believe health care is a privilege. It's not the government's responsibility to make sure you get your check-ups or are guaranteed a surgery. There's a little something called personal responsibility that people need to be aware of.

I am well aware there are plenty of situations where not having health insurance is simply out of your hands, but like it or not life isn't fair and to blame the government because of this fact is wrong.

If they want to create a public option to help their citizens, I'm all for it as long as they remove that "penalty tax" for those who choose not to participate.

Health care reform is not making sure you get checkups or gauranteeing surgery.

No one is "blaming" the government.

The public option is not to help the citizens but to provide an alternative insurance policy that one must pay premiums to use.

[MissMelsWell]

I believe health care is a privilege. It's not the government's responsibility to make sure you get your check-ups or are guaranteed a surgery. There's a little something called personal responsibility that people need to be aware of.

I am well aware there are plenty of situations where not having health insurance is simply out of your hands, but like it or not life isn't fair and to blame the government because of this fact is wrong.

If they want to create a public option to help their citizens, I'm all for it as long as they remove that "penalty tax" for those who choose not to participate.

I belive it's everyone's right to be healthy. People who work for corporations get health insurance that's at least semi-affordable. Taht's known. It's people who are self employed or out of work that really suffer. Know how scary it is for someone to start a new business because health care is so cost prohibitive and often even unattainable? sorry, I'm not that kind of risk taker really and no one else should have to be. Know how many small business owners go without health care insurance? TONS. More than you realize... they gamble with their lives every single day.

We do need alternatives to what we have now. I should be able to have health care... why shouldn't I? My tax dollars went to pay for a collassally stupid war I wanted nothing to do with. How about my tax dollars go to pay to keep every single person in this country alive and healthy and contributing? EVERY other civilized nation has it EXCEPT the USA. That's just sad and pathetic on the part of this country. But it's not exactly teh first sad and pathetic thing this nation has done in recent years.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Hey, I have an idea. Let's kidnap Obama, Pelosi and Reid, and demand that the government give every single person in the world all the health insurance and health care they could ever want.

[Mr Honeybadger]

Hey, I have an idea. Let's kidnap Obama, Pelosi and Reid, and demand that the government give every single person in the world all the health insurance and health care they could ever want.

Ha. I like your way of thinking.

The problem is that when you kidnap someone, you do it with the hope that they are worth enough to someone to get some ransom in return. I'm not liking your chances with these three

[MissMelsWell]

Hey, I have an idea. Let's kidnap Obama, Pelosi and Reid, and demand that the government give every single person in the world all the health insurance and health care they could ever want.

Do comments like that help or are they pro-active?? No. Got any SOLUTIONS? Got any better ideas? What we have now CLEARLY doesn't work...

[+Sherapy]

No, but how would privatizing it make it any better?

The problem here is NOT the government: It is the general anti-educational, anti-intellectual feel that too many Americans have.

Sheri, I disagree with you on homeschooling. A child needs an educational curriculum planned by experts and taught by people who know what they are doing, not to mention certain social skills and interactions. Parents, and home school in general, cannot provide any of these.

SQL, I agree, I think its up to the home schooling parent to do what ever they need to do to ensure they know what a quality curricula is and adeptness in social skill is easily reproduced..what is probably more important is how does the child feel about being the "other"......

..........I do have concerns with filtering a world view through the bible and giving a distorted view of reality to a child....as in the long run it hurts the child's potential, but eventually one finds this out anyways.....

for us this is working very well, a charter that offers a curricula that is up to date and based on the latest in scientific datum.....

We are one of the few charters or schools for that matter in my state that is of the quality it is.....

So far the downside to this is intellectual inequality with ones peers....my son had a difficult time adapting to the immaturity and ignorance of his peers for a time........

He has adjusted by having older friends....

so far that is what I have seen as far as a downside....

[Pseudo Intellectual]

What we have now CLEARLY doesn't work...

And yet the overwhelming majority is satisfied with it, and a plurality favor it over Obama's plan.

[momentarylapseofreason]

How much of that number makes up people that make over 75k a year, teens and illegal aliens?

Looking back to Obama's statement, though, he said nearly 46 million Americans don't have insurance. Actually, the census data include noncitizens. The Census Bureau breaks out that information and reports that 9.7 million of the uninsured are noncitizens. So the number of Americans without insurance is actually closer to 36 million.

I bet they have not contacted every american either, so there are more than 36 million.

Besides what's the diffrence? That's an awful lot of people!

And how do you anwser the constitution that everyone should have food, shelter & medical care?

[ninjadude]

And yet the overwhelming majority is satisfied with it, and a plurality favor it over Obama's plan.

Have you ever paid for your health insurance? Have you seen the increases over the last ten years? Have you seen the increase for this year? Have you ever had a "pre-existing condition"? have you even ever been in a hospital? do you have a chronic illness that needs constant care? Have you been kicked from your parents plan?

thought not.

[momentarylapseofreason]

And yet the overwhelming majority is satisfied with it, and a plurality favor it over Obama's plan.

I'm not as satisfied as some of you because I was spoiled with the health care system in Germany. Alot of you don't know anything better. Maybe I don't have the best coverage? Dunno

And your statement is half-true according to politfact

Edited October 17, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[Caesar]

Looking back to Obama's statement, though, he said nearly 46 million Americans don't have insurance. Actually, the census data include noncitizens. The Census Bureau breaks out that information and reports that 9.7 million of the uninsured are noncitizens. So the number of Americans without insurance is actually closer to 36 million.

I bet they have not contacted every american either, so there are more than 36 million.

Besides what's the diffrence? That's an awful lot of people!

And how do you anwser the constitution that everyone should have food, shelter & medical care?

I would put the number of those that fall threw the cracks at about 15 million.