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eqgumby

Health care an earned right?

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MissMelsWell

You think America is the only place on the planet that works?

What has Universal Health Care got to do with employment?

Actually, when you look at it from an American perspective it has everything to do with employment. Currently, by law, the companies we work for in the USA have to provide us with medical plans and those plans are paid in part or in total by the company we work for. If we are out of work... we are out of medical insurance unless we're independently wealthy and can afford $1000 (likely more) a month premiums. Since most people have to have somewhere to live and food to eat, we can't get health unless we give up our homes and food. Kick 'em when they're down. I'm lucky, I'm healthy and have no medical conditions to consider... but I could get hit by a bus tomorrow... if I am... bye bye house... I'd lose it. The crap of that is if it happened and I lost my house, I couldn't find another place to live that was lower in cost than my current home.

I'm an advocate of Universal Health Care so we DON'T have to worry about employment issues... So we have SOMETHING if there's an issue... It doesn't have to be much, hell... I'd be happy with catastrophic coverage, although others in my situation would still be in trouble if that's all they had. A diabetic would be in real trouble for example... They wouldn't go untreated in the USA, but they would lose everything but their health. Home, vehicles, destroyed credit ratings, everything...

I have a friend that had a ruptured appendix while he was out of work... he's now 170K in debt, has moved in with his great aunt, went back to work and the judgement for the payment is more than half his blue collar paycheck... now he can't afford his child support payments and is about to get garnished for that too... at which point he will have NO money.. nothing. When his aunt dies, he'll be on the streets with no hope of recovery.... all because he appendix burst and he wound up in the hospital for 3 weeks. That's totally inhumane.

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momentarylapseofreason

Actually, when you look at it from an American perspective it has everything to do with employment. Currently, by law, the companies we work for in the USA have to provide us with medical plans and those plans are paid in part or in total by the company we work for. If we are out of work... we are out of medical insurance unless we're independently wealthy and can afford $1000 (likely more) a month premiums. Since most people have to have somewhere to live and food to eat, we can't get health unless we give up our homes and food. Kick 'em when they're down. I'm lucky, I'm healthy and have no medical conditions to consider... but I could get hit by a bus tomorrow... if I am... bye bye house... I'd lose it. The crap of that is if it happened and I lost my house, I couldn't find another place to live that was lower in cost than my current home.

I'm an advocate of Universal Health Care so we DON'T have to worry about employment issues... So we have SOMETHING if there's an issue... It doesn't have to be much, hell... I'd be happy with catastrophic coverage, although others in my situation would still be in trouble if that's all they had. A diabetic would be in real trouble for example... They wouldn't go untreated in the USA, but they would lose everything but their health. Home, vehicles, destroyed credit ratings, everything...

I have a friend that had a ruptured appendix while he was out of work... he's now 170K in debt, has moved in with his great aunt, went back to work and the judgement for the payment is more than half his blue collar paycheck... now he can't afford his child support payments and is about to get garnished for that too... at which point he will have NO money.. nothing. When his aunt dies, he'll be on the streets with no hope of recovery.... all because he appendix burst and he wound up in the hospital for 3 weeks. That's totally inhumane.

How do you feel about mandatory health insurance coverage/ cost being adjusted percentage-wise to the (combined) income of families that live in one household?

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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MissMelsWell

Because there's already no unemployment pay within the US?

Two completely separate issues, Daniel.

again, not entirely... our unemployment is also paid through a type of insurance plan. When we are employees of a company, a certain amount is taken out of our paychecks and placed into a fund run by the state. We receive unemployment benefits based on what we made for a salary when we were working. I top out the benefit receiving maximum payment anyone can receive. Even with my low cost of living which I deliberately planned for, I still can't really make ends meet... I'm industrius though adn sell jewelry I make for that little extra I need to get by.

I'd be happy if the state would remove just a bit more from my paycheck, like they do for unemployment benefits, to cover basic health care while I'm out of work. That doesn't happen now. We have a government program called COBRA.. however it's SO expensive that you can't afford it on your unemployment benefits. It's stupid and useless! (and it's only good for 90 days I believe).

My sister is a doctor... she's all for universal health care... even as a DOCTOR she still has to pay HUGE dollars for her kids insurance... she's just as mad as I am. Of course, not all doctors will feel the way she does.. most of her patients are geriatric or permanently disabled who are on medicare or medicaid anyway... she's paid her wages by that system. Admittedly, she makes a decent living, but it's not extravagant by any stretch of the imagination.

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danielost

if your going to make health care a right. then all citizens have a right to it no matter how rich.

let's just hope they don't put a smokers lung into someone who needs a lung transplant. oh wait too late.

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MissMelsWell

How do you feel about mandatory health insurance coverage/ cost being adjusted percentage-wise to the (combined) income of families that live in one household?

sure, as long as they're talking about the income of "now" rather than the previous year, which is what a lot of the suppliment programs that are available do.

I think I'm more of an advocate for taking medical insurance out of our paychecks to fund a resource much like unemployment or even something like a temporary medicare.

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momentarylapseofreason

I hate when people say, as they often do, "tough!! life is not fair..... get over it!" That's so passive, weak and heartless!

Is this not what we have the power to change?

We can't stop or end all injustice, but we can try like hell.

First you recognize the problem. Then you point it out or make others aware of that problem. Then you plan how to solve it. Then you implement the steps for that change. Then you watch what the results are. If the problem isn't solved, then you try something else but you don't give up or wimp out.

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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momentarylapseofreason

sure, as long as they're talking about the income of "now" rather than the previous year, which is what a lot of the suppliment programs that are available do.

I think I'm more of an advocate for taking medical insurance out of our paychecks to fund a resource much like unemployment or even something like a temporary medicare.

Sounds good but i think that should be set according to income. I have no problem paying more than others. I just want to be able to afford it, even if i possibly have less junk because of it. i'm just grateful that I and others are all covered. Your health is so precious.

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MissMelsWell

Sounds good but i think that should be set according to income. I have no problem paying more than others. I just want to be able to afford it, even if i possibly have less junk because of it. i'm just grateful that I and others are all covered. Your health is so precious.

oh sure, that's what unemployment insurance is too... you pay a percentage of what you make into that fund... I paid more than most people did, so my benefits are maximum that you can receive. People who paid a lower percentage, receive less.

But, when it comes to health care, everyone who paid in would have to receive the same benefit, which is where this all starts to stumble I'm sure.

you know I can't even go to public health clinics for things like antibiotics if let's say I contracted strep throat? I made too much last year and therefore, they'd charge me a full doctors appointment fee and I'd get no prescription coverage either. No break. If I were out of work for a full tax year, THEN I'd get free care. But not free drugs.

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momentarylapseofreason

oh sure, that's what unemployment insurance is too... you pay a percentage of what you make into that fund... I paid more than most people did, so my benefits are maximum that you can receive. People who paid a lower percentage, receive less.

But, when it comes to health care, everyone who paid in would have to receive the same benefit, which is where this all starts to stumble I'm sure.

you know I can't even go to public health clinics for things like antibiotics if let's say I contracted strep throat? I made too much last year and therefore, they'd charge me a full doctors appointment fee and I'd get no prescription coverage either. No break. If I were out of work for a full tax year, THEN I'd get free care. But not free drugs.

Health care should be equal in quality & benefits for all. No one life has more value than the other. Co-pays on meds should also be according to income

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Eldorado

My own belief is that in a caring civilised society, health care is a birth-right.

The strong and the rich caring for the weak and the poor is a sign of a nations greatness.

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Cadetak

We can have armies but not health care...that's kind of funny. Seeing as both primarily have to do with the safety, security, and health of citizens...yet one is viewed as absolutely necessarily and the other is one big mess of a debate.

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Fluffybunny

I have worked since I was 12. Seriously...my first job was in a liquor store stocking beer and alcohol in Los Angeles. I worked all through school, and at the age of 14 I was on my own due to family issues, my mom had drug addiction problems. I worked at a gas station pumping gas at night and went to school during the day, and I had to pay rent at a friends place when I was in high school, as I didn't have a typical parental arrangement that most kids have, I took care of myself.

I have always worked. My wife has always been self employed. She was a broadway actress, then went on to do some training stuff, then finally ended up in the business world. She too was always responsible for herself. Neither of us have family left.

So here it is that I dedicate myself to helping save lives. I work hard to get good at my job, and I help a lot of people at my own risk. I love it. It is my life. One day a guy crashes his semi into the river road I live on, and in trying to extricate his 350 pounds before we were washed away I blew out two discs and crushed nerves along the way.

One would assume that no matter what the injury, once you get hurt on the job saving someones life, you get covered...but no, not always. I strained the muscles in my back ten years ago putting in sod(minor strain mind you), so my own insurance said; "previous injury, you have been hurt before...so sorry..." leaving me paralyzed in one leg from the crushed nerve being impinged upon by L-5 blowing out of where it was supposed to be. My small department did the best they could, and ended up changing insurance companies over it, but it ended up falling to my own insurance to cover it.

So here I am 4 surgeries(and multiple treatments) later with medical bills for the treatments that the insurance company decided they were not going to cover. In total we are looking at a couple hundred thousand dollars in debt. We lost our home, sold our car to pay medical bills, ebayed everything of worth we don't use for work to make ends meet, and are running about as lean as two people can run....no tv. no cable, no eating out, no nothing...

The sad part is that if you were to look at my insurance policy, you would think it was good. We pay for the things we felt we needed and left out the things we didn't and, we did pretty well. Unfortunately when a company has the right to say "no" to a given procedure, or they will cover the procedure 100% (at up to -lets say- $5000.00) when the actual bill is actually more like five times that amount by the time anesthesia and the hospital room are calculated in. So you will get home from the hospital and start getting $20,000 bills and have the insurance company say "hey, we have paid 100% on that claim...the rest is yours..."

It just seems pretty crazy to be as successful a country we are, to have as much money as we do, and to have a total willingness on so many peoples parts to not provide what so many other countries do...at some level or another. I can understand that people would be p***ed that here comes some person who never paid into the system, and they come along and break a leg and use $25,000 of it to get better...that would suck for sure. You know what sucks more? a hardworking firefighter who has paid into the system his whole life ending up having to push a shopping cart with all of his worldly goods in it because he made a stupid mistake and got injured.

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SilverCougar

do you really think they care about our stories? I don't think they do. They just see it as more taxes that burdens them, when forgetting that some day their private insurance will tell them "No" some day and they'll be where we are.

*shrugs* one thing I've learned is that you'll have better luck debateing or discussing things like this with a brick wall.

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Kimi81

Oh, and by the way, I even went out and tried to get a job with Starbucks last month so I could have some insurance and an income that's at least a bit more than my unenjoyment check... they wont' hire me because I'm way over qualified for the job. Nevermind that I worked for them for FIVE years in the 80s and early 90s. I can't even get a job as a frickin' clerk anywhere because all my work experience for the last 15 years is as a developer in the high tech industry... yes, a 6 figure job. I'm po'd because I planned for this kind of scenario... lose my job, make sure my lifestyle is supportable on a very small income, then I can work anywhere and still make the bills and have insurance. No DICE. No one will hire someone for a 30K a year job who was previously making 110K a year. I've learned that the HARD way.

As of today, I'm considering selling my house and opening my own small retail business... nevermind that even if I do that... I still won't have health insurance for probably years until the business is turning a great profit.

:no:Ouch, tough break!!What you are going through now is my worst nightmare.......it's just a reminder that this can happen to any of us. That's why I do all I can to make sure that if I loose my 6 figure job I can still make it, but life is so unpredictable. That is why I don't look down on anybody for they're finacial situations.!! I think everyone in our Country should have affordable health care. You should not have to die because you are to poor to avoie treatment for something. Even though thats how the system operates now, it's not right :wacko: Health care reform is way overdue!

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Kimi81

I have worked since I was 12. Seriously...my first job was in a liquor store stocking beer and alcohol in Los Angeles. I worked all through school, and at the age of 14 I was on my own due to family issues, my mom had drug addiction problems. I worked at a gas station pumping gas at night and went to school during the day, and I had to pay rent at a friends place when I was in high school, as I didn't have a typical parental arrangement that most kids have, I took care of myself.

I have always worked. My wife has always been self employed. She was a broadway actress, then went on to do some training stuff, then finally ended up in the business world. She too was always responsible for herself. Neither of us have family left.

So here it is that I dedicate myself to helping save lives. I work hard to get good at my job, and I help a lot of people at my own risk. I love it. It is my life. One day a guy crashes his semi into the river road I live on, and in trying to extricate his 350 pounds before we were washed away I blew out two discs and crushed nerves along the way.

One would assume that no matter what the injury, once you get hurt on the job saving someones life, you get covered...but no, not always. I strained the muscles in my back ten years ago putting in sod(minor strain mind you), so my own insurance said; "previous injury, you have been hurt before...so sorry..." leaving me paralyzed in one leg from the crushed nerve being impinged upon by L-5 blowing out of where it was supposed to be. My small department did the best they could, and ended up changing insurance companies over it, but it ended up falling to my own insurance to cover it.

So here I am 4 surgeries(and multiple treatments) later with medical bills for the treatments that the insurance company decided they were not going to cover. In total we are looking at a couple hundred thousand dollars in debt. We lost our home, sold our car to pay medical bills, ebayed everything of worth we don't use for work to make ends meet, and are running about as lean as two people can run....no tv. no cable, no eating out, no nothing...

The sad part is that if you were to look at my insurance policy, you would think it was good. We pay for the things we felt we needed and left out the things we didn't and, we did pretty well. Unfortunately when a company has the right to say "no" to a given procedure, or they will cover the procedure 100% (at up to -lets say- $5000.00) when the actual bill is actually more like five times that amount by the time anesthesia and the hospital room are calculated in. So you will get home from the hospital and start getting $20,000 bills and have the insurance company say "hey, we have paid 100% on that claim...the rest is yours..."

It just seems pretty crazy to be as successful a country we are, to have as much money as we do, and to have a total willingness on so many peoples parts to not provide what so many other countries do...at some level or another. I can understand that people would be p***ed that here comes some person who never paid into the system, and they come along and break a leg and use $25,000 of it to get better...that would suck for sure. You know what sucks more? a hardworking firefighter who has paid into the system his whole life ending up having to push a shopping cart with all of his worldly goods in it because he made a stupid mistake and got injured.

Reading stuff like this just makes me even more dismayed that everyday middle class Americans are protesting healthcare reform just because they don't agree with the political party of the Administration bringing it :hmm: . This type of thing can happen to anyone at anytime. I don't see how we have billions of dollars to fight useless wars, and provide reform to foriegn countries when right hear in the US hard working, everday people are drowning in debt paying medical bills for illneses and injuries they have suffered due to no fault of their own :no:

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MissMelsWell

no.gifOuch, tough break!!What you are going through now is my worst nightmare.......it's just a reminder that this can happen to any of us. That's why I do all I can to make sure that if I loose my 6 figure job I can still make it, but life is so unpredictable. That is why I don't look down on anybody for they're finacial situations.!! I think everyone in our Country should have affordable health care. You should not have to die because you are to poor to avoie treatment for something. Even though thats how the system operates now, it's not right wacko.gif Health care reform is way overdue!

That's a little fatalist... in the US you won't die because you can't be denied life saving treatment... BUT you might lose everything you worked for and you might spend the rest of your life running from creditors. I certainly have a friend or two that are in that situation.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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eqgumby

Don't prisoners get free health care? They earned it by murdering, stealing and raping.

I agree, that's pretty crappy, isn't it?

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MissMelsWell

I agree, that's pretty crappy, isn't it?

It's not crappy that prisoners get health care at a basic level... what's crappy is that they get it and I DON'T! So a basic human right? Yes, a constitutional right? Not really... should it be? Possibly.

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MissMelsWell

ha, i just got a wonderful letter from the unemployment office... apparently, they want me to apply for nearly 10 different openings they have on their job board... nevermind that they're ALL $8.50 per hour... that's less than I make on unemployment and those people aren't going to hire me anyway--I have no line cook experience, and in fact I'm more prone to setting dinner on fire than I am cooking something edible. LOL.

Still no job, still no health coverage.

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Pseudo Intellectual

They get health care because it's the government's responsibility to keep the prisoners alive. It's international law.

And you get health care, too. Just not health insurance.

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IamsSon

First of all, in this country everyone gets health care. Emergency Rooms cannot turn you down. Now, it IS basic health care and it may end up not being enough to combat all life-ending illnesses, but you will get treatment. Not everyone gets insurance, but that is not a right.

For those of you who immediately start crying about how people are whining about paying more taxes, the question is, who gives you the right to other people's money?

I've gone without health insurance, and yes, it's incredibly scary that you or your child might get sick and not be able to pay or that you will lose your house and everything you own. But it is MY responsibility, no one else's. Life is not fair, and it is selfish to think that other people should have to give up their hard-earned wages to cover your responsibilities.

I really can't understand how people who espouse evolution suddenly want to make sure no one suffers the effects of their decisions. If you believe in evolution, then you know that it is best if those who can't provide for themselves and their offspring be removed (even if you are the one who can't provide), and also that the offspring of someone like that also not have the opportunity to reproduce such inferior genes.

If you're not a believer in evolution and you are religious or even a Christian, then you know it is your responsibility to provide, not the government's and you also know that forcefully taking from someone to give it to someone else is theft. Saying it's taxes is just a way of justifying theft.

Edited by IamsSon

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MissMelsWell
If you're not a believer in evolution and you are religious or even a Christian, then you know it is your responsibility to provide, not the government's and you also know that forcefully taking from someone to give it to someone else is theft. Saying it's taxes is just a way of justifying theft.

I WANT to provide, I always have provided... but why you can't provide, then what? I WANT to work, I spend 8 hours a day looking for something, anything, that will keep my MEAGER lifestyle afloat and provide health care. No one will hire me because I'm overqualified for a lot of jobs, and my field where i am qualified isn't hiring. Rock, hard place. Luckily, at this point I'm not taking charity from friends or family, nor am I taking anything other than the unemployment I'm due (because I paid for it already), I'm sustaining myself because I planned. Unfortunately, no amount of planning could get me health insurance... not at the $800+ a MONTH it would cost me out of pocket, in cash. You know that kind of premium is the same I pay for my MORTGAGE? That's insanity, that's criminal.

I WANT to pay extra taxes so people like myself, and ALL people in this country have care that doesn't DESTROY their lives because their appendix burst when they were out of work. That's inhumane. Even prisoners are treated more humanely.

I normally love your posts, and consider you a friend, but that post was pretty much over the top. Wanna pay my premiums for me? A good christian would help a fellow christian who's down and out. Maybe you could cover my hospital bill if I get hit by a city bus later today... you know, so I could have a home to come back to when I get out of traction?? That would be great, thanks.

Edited by MissMelsWell

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Startraveler
For those of you who immediately start crying about how people are whining about paying more taxes, the question is, who gives you the right to other people's money?

Article I, Section 8, paragraph 1 of the United States Constitution, coupled with the 16th amendment to the Constitution.

This one irrefutably is a right.

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momentarylapseofreason

First of all, in this country everyone gets health care. Emergency Rooms cannot turn you down. Now, it IS basic health care and it may end up not being enough to combat all life-ending illnesses, but you will get treatment. Not everyone gets insurance, but that is not a right.

Yes, health coverage is a right! If you don't have yor health then you have nothing! That makes it a right.But it should not cost you all that you have worked for!!!

For those of you who immediately start crying about how people are whining about paying more taxes, the question is, who gives you the right to other people's money?

I see some of my money as other people's money right from the beginning. If something happens to me they also give up some of their money. It works both ways not just one way. It's there for you also, just in case. We can't all be millionaires, can we? Its like a commmunity fund to help others. We are one nation under ............

I've gone without health insurance, and yes, it's incredibly scary that you or your child might get sick and not be able to pay or that you will lose your house and everything you own. But it is MY responsibility, no one else's. Life is not fair, and it is selfish to think that other people should have to give up their hard-earned wages to cover your responsibilities.

And you call yourself a Christian? Do you think this is how Jesus would be? You are the one being selfish! The Republican party certainly is the selfish party.

I really can't understand how people who espouse evolution suddenly want to make sure no one suffers the effects of their decisions. If you believe in evolution, then you know that it is best if those who can't provide for themselves and their offspring be removed (even if you are the one who can't provide), and also that the offspring of someone like that also not have the opportunity to reproduce such inferior genes.

I don't see how people are so "pro-life" at the same time don't respect children once they are born and complain about their hard earned dollars supporting them in any way shape or form. Besides Illness is not just do from bad genes. People can get sick from pollution/environment/from work/accidents. Besides everyone gets old and therefore eventually ill

If you're not a believer in evolution and you are religious or even a Christian, then you know it is your responsibility to provide, not the government's and you also know that forcefully taking from someone to give it to someone else is theft. Saying it's taxes is just a way of justifying theft.

Well obviously we are a Christian Nation so why aren't ya all providing anything except preaching, judging, complaining about government and maybe/sometimes helping only your own or people in your Church. (I speak of the conservatives-the ones that conserve all the money they can

Edited by momentarylapseofreason

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danielost

I have worked since I was 12. Seriously...my first job was in a liquor store stocking beer and alcohol in Los Angeles. I worked all through school, and at the age of 14 I was on my own due to family issues, my mom had drug addiction problems. I worked at a gas station pumping gas at night and went to school during the day, and I had to pay rent at a friends place when I was in high school, as I didn't have a typical parental arrangement that most kids have, I took care of myself.

I have always worked. My wife has always been self employed. She was a broadway actress, then went on to do some training stuff, then finally ended up in the business world. She too was always responsible for herself. Neither of us have family left.

So here it is that I dedicate myself to helping save lives. I work hard to get good at my job, and I help a lot of people at my own risk. I love it. It is my life. One day a guy crashes his semi into the river road I live on, and in trying to extricate his 350 pounds before we were washed away I blew out two discs and crushed nerves along the way.

One would assume that no matter what the injury, once you get hurt on the job saving someones life, you get covered...but no, not always. I strained the muscles in my back ten years ago putting in sod(minor strain mind you), so my own insurance said; "previous injury, you have been hurt before...so sorry..." leaving me paralyzed in one leg from the crushed nerve being impinged upon by L-5 blowing out of where it was supposed to be. My small department did the best they could, and ended up changing insurance companies over it, but it ended up falling to my own insurance to cover it.

So here I am 4 surgeries(and multiple treatments) later with medical bills for the treatments that the insurance company decided they were not going to cover. In total we are looking at a couple hundred thousand dollars in debt. We lost our home, sold our car to pay medical bills, ebayed everything of worth we don't use for work to make ends meet, and are running about as lean as two people can run....no tv. no cable, no eating out, no nothing...

The sad part is that if you were to look at my insurance policy, you would think it was good. We pay for the things we felt we needed and left out the things we didn't and, we did pretty well. Unfortunately when a company has the right to say "no" to a given procedure, or they will cover the procedure 100% (at up to -lets say- $5000.00) when the actual bill is actually more like five times that amount by the time anesthesia and the hospital room are calculated in. So you will get home from the hospital and start getting $20,000 bills and have the insurance company say "hey, we have paid 100% on that claim...the rest is yours..."

It just seems pretty crazy to be as successful a country we are, to have as much money as we do, and to have a total willingness on so many peoples parts to not provide what so many other countries do...at some level or another. I can understand that people would be p***ed that here comes some person who never paid into the system, and they come along and break a leg and use $25,000 of it to get better...that would suck for sure. You know what sucks more? a hardworking firefighter who has paid into the system his whole life ending up having to push a shopping cart with all of his worldly goods in it because he made a stupid mistake and got injured.

if you didn't you should have sued.

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