Muslims group demands full Shariah law

[questionmark]

Yes, but this discussion is about Islam. There was no reason to bring up Christianity. That's a common tactic used by Islamic apologists. Every time someone points to something evil in the Quran/Hadiths/Sira, or something bad Muslims have done (eg Hindu genocide), all the apologists do is say something along the lines of, "So what? Christians were responsible for the Inquisition/Crusades" and end the discussion.

Wrong, there is a reason and that is the good old holier than thou crap being spilled all over this thread. And there is where I say that all better start cleaning in front of their own doors instead of criticizing in others what some themselves are tired of doing.

Besides, as I pointed out, Islam is no better or worse than Christianism or Judaism, the difference is more or less brain amputated followers.

[KidInTheHall]

Never been to the UK but I've always been happy to have them as our friends, I'd hate to see anything like this actually happen. Kick their asses out UK, you're too good for their bull****!

USA <3's UK

Edited October 18, 2009 by KidInTheHall

[momentarylapseofreason]

Wrong, there is a reason and that is the good old holier than thou crap being spilled all over this thread. And there is where I say that all better start cleaning in front of their own doors instead of criticizing in others what some themselves are tired of doing.

Besides, as I pointed out, Islam is no better or worse than Christianism or Judaism, the difference is more or less brain amputated followers.

Maybe you have a point.

How so?

Is a non-religious person allowed to examine & criticize an Ideology?

Edited October 18, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[questionmark]

Maybe you have a point.

How so?

Islamic countries have been leading in science and humanity until the middle ages while Christians were behaving just like the Islamists do today. Now the table has turned. Same story, different place.

[momentarylapseofreason]

Islamic countries have been leading in science and humanity until the middle ages while Christians were behaving just like the Islamists do today. Now the table has turned. Same story, different place.

They were leading in thses until Islam came along. Look what became of them except for oil rich countries.

Why are they here in the west if islam has served them so well.

The Christians in Europe are nothing like the Christians in the U.S.

They are not the same but they have similarities (Judaism, Christianity, Islam)

I feel threatened by the spreading of Islam and the Evangelicals in the U.S.

It's all insane and dangerous

I think Islam is argued more down here in this section because it's so political in it's nature

Edited October 18, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[questionmark]

They were leading in thses until Islam came along. Look what became of them except for oil rich countries.

Absolutely wrong, while Europe sank into darkness the light was in Persia and Egypt, both Islamic since the 5th century.

They kept the whole ancient Egyptian, ancient Greek and ancient Roman heritage alive. In Europe monks were out and about burning and destroying.

Try finding something about the Abbasids also known as the "Islamic Golden Age" and compare that to the Christian (un)civilization of the time.

[momentarylapseofreason]

Absolutely wrong, while Europe sank into darkness the light was in Persia and Egypt, both Islamic since the 5th century.

They kept the whole ancient Egyptian, ancient Greek and ancient Roman heritage alive. In Europe monks were out and about burning and destroying.

Try finding something about the Abbasids also known as the "Islamic Golden Age" and compare that to the Christian (un)civilization of the time.

Well that was then -this is now?

Then why are they in such crappy circumstances? (most of them)

Tell me all the positives of Islam for myself

Again I ask, how has Islam served them?

Again as a woman and secular thinking person I have every right to question and be skeptical of their motives (those who take Islam very seriously)

Edited October 18, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[momentarylapseofreason]

I'm researching it QM

You are smart guy. I'll have a looky

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Haha. You do realize most of the "achievements" Islam's allegedly responsible for were either European achievements preserved by Muslims, Hindu/Buddhist achievements stolen by Muslims, or achievements made by non-Muslims who happened to be living in Islamic nations... right?

[odas]

I made a simple comment without looking for a debate and you went off on it.

I don't have to say a word to make you look bad...you're doing very well on your own.

You do realize that people who like to critisize without giving a clear solution do not like to be critisized, Mich?

You go girl. I do not like radical views on any side.

[questionmark]

Haha. You do realize most of the "achievements" Islam's allegedly responsible for were either European achievements preserved by Muslims, Hindu/Buddhist achievements stolen by Muslims, or achievements made by non-Muslims who happened to be living in Islamic nations... right?

While the rest of civilization was disappearing in darkness. Besides, they did not only conserve the heritage, they developed it. Until the Europeans learned education from them and they learned fanaticism from the Europeans. And no, people like Avicenna (real name Abū Alī ibn Sīnā) actually developed medicine, alchemy and chemistry to a level that did not exist previously in the world. He was Muslim.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Until the Europeans learned education from them and they learned fanaticism from the Europeans.

Haha. You're a funny guy. Europe had long known of "education" before the Dark Ages, and Arabs had long known about fanaticism before Islam. Do you really think the reason [some/most - take your pick] Muslims are fanatic is because of the "white man" (ie Europe)? Your white guilt is... well, pitiful.

[questionmark]

Haha. You're a funny guy. Europe had long known of "education" before the Dark Ages, and Arabs had long known about fanaticism before Islam. Do you really think the reason [some/most - take your pick] Muslims are fanatic is because of the "white man" (ie Europe)? Your white guilt is... well, pitiful.

Research University and see where it comes from. And well, the exchange of cultures happened in Spain, at the end the Christians got the country back with universities and the Muslims fanatics. You can reach your own conclusions.

Edited October 18, 2009 by questionmark

[odas]

Haha. You're a funny guy. Europe had long known of "education" before the Dark Ages, and Arabs had long known about fanaticism before Islam. Do you really think the reason [some/most - take your pick] Muslims are fanatic is because of the "white man" (ie Europe)? Your white guilt is... well, pitiful.

Not so fast, Pontiac. Read and educate yourself before you conclude.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

What part of my post do do you disagree with? Do you two really believe that the reason there are Islamist fanatics is because of Europe/white people?

Really?

[momentarylapseofreason]

I'm sure there were Muslim iventors, astronomers and the like. Just like any other culture.

It is good to know that before their defeat and despite their chaotic political situation during the last decade of their reign, Sassanid Persians were experiencing their own golden age in terms of culture, arts and science and technology.

So it is obvious that some of the modern scholars conclude that the so-called Islamic golden age has only been an extension to that of the Sassanids, owing its sources of culture, political and social system to it.

We must not overlook the fact that Egypt, Arabia, Elam, Mesopotamia and Iran are perhaps the best geographical locations to develop knowledge based civilisations. The whole region is located between Europe, India and China providing excellent conditions for the exchange and transfer of knowledge. In fact, the Elamite and Mesopotamian civilisations are the eldest we know, followed by the Egyptians, Assyrans and Persians.

However, with the arrival of Islam the situation worsened and since the modernisation of the west became even more obvious.

Islam and rationalism cannot coexist and this is the reason why the islamic world never again cultivated sciences . The latest uproars in Nigeria are a symptom of the undeniable fact that islam simply fails to provide modern education to the people as well as a modern law system, healthcare and infrastructure. Instead of engineers, doctors and teachers islamic universities produce nothing but scribes who learn nothing but the Quran, memorising it over and over, without any sense and absolutely useless!

.Excerpts from BS Murthy's Puppets of Faith: theory of communal strife -

" In the current glut the Musalmans are in everywhere, they are prone to reminisce about the past glories of the Islamic architecture and science. If by ‘Islamic’, they mean Arabic, we may note that the Musalmans of Arabia, by and large, including Muhammad, were illiterate and lived in tents for the most part. And the mosque cum private quarters that Muhammad got it built for him and his wives in Medina was not an architectural wonder by any stretch of imagination.

Indeed, the so-called Islamic achievements were owing to the contributions of those nations with advanced cultures such as Mesopotamia, Persia and Egypt that Islam appropriated for itself with brute force. It is another matter that Islam, in time, reduced all of them into mediocrity."

"As though to sustain the five prayer regimen of Islam, Muhammad had continued his campaigns of plunder that satiated the need as well as the greed of his followers. Edward Gibbon for this reason described Islam as the profitable religion of the Arabs, and as it spread across the globe, the Caliphs, and the despots, who followed, kept up the precedent set by their Prophet. Of course, till all that could be plundered from the subdued nation was plundered."

http://www.lulu.com/content/471529

Edited October 18, 2009 by momentarylapseofreason

[momentarylapseofreason]

So how does the so-called "Islamic" Golden Age make anything better now?

Most Muslim countries are in shambles now

[momentarylapseofreason]

You do realize that people who like to critisize without giving a clear solution do not like to be critisized, Mich?

You go girl. I do not like radical views on any side.

So what's your solution? Why aren't Muslims themselves solving the problem?

Why don't these people stay in their own coutries and fight for Reason?

Let's hear your solution.

We are criticizing intolerance and are therefore intolerant. Alrighty then......

[Bill Hill]

While the rest of civilization was disappearing in darkness. Besides, they did not only conserve the heritage, they developed it. Until the Europeans learned education from them and they learned fanaticism from the Europeans. And no, people like Avicenna (real name Abū Alī ibn Sīnā) actually developed medicine, alchemy and chemistry to a level that did not exist previously in the world. He was Muslim.

sorry but that is crap.

If you actually research it, it's mainly made up of biased revisionist claptrap..

ie..

Islam advised Muslims to find ways of using the stars. The Qur'an says: "And it is He who ordained the stars for you that you may be guided thereby in the darkness of the land and the sea." On the basis of this advice Muslims began to develop better observational and navigational instruments,

develop better equipment based upon the teachings of islam. please..

There are also several cosmological verses in the Qur'an (610-632) which some modern writers have interpreted as foreshadowing the expansion of the universe and possibly even the Big Bang theory

modern writers huh?

[Bill Hill]

However, with the arrival of Islam the situation worsened and since the modernisation of the west became even more obvious.

yep.

[odas]

So what's your solution? Why aren't Muslims themselves solving the problem?

Why don't these people stay in their own coutries and fight for Reason?

Let's hear your solution.

We are criticizing intolerance and are therefore intolerant. Alrighty then......

To find a solution one has to find the reason for the status quo.

Now tell me why so many muslims from Pakistan and Arabia end up in UK?

Let me know what you think and we will take it from there.

[hetrodoxly]

Islamic countries have been leading in science and humanity until the middle ages while Christians were behaving just like the Islamists do today. Now the table has turned. Same story, different place.

Your just looking for blind puppies here, Muslim hordes invaded the holy land long before the crusaders tried to take it back, you should know and i believe you do? the "dark ages" is now considered nonsense, Persia, Iraq etc. could of lead the world in technology, it was Islam that stopped them in their tracks and kept them in the middle ages, most of the knowledge learned by Islam came from the Greeks & Egyptians and translated for them by Europeans, on another note you never hear people say Christians invented or discovered anything, Muslims invented nothing, Persians did though imagine what they could have done.

[questionmark]

Your just looking for blind puppies here, Muslim hordes invaded the holy land long before the crusaders tried to take it back, you should know and i believe you do? the "dark ages" is now considered nonsense, Persia, Iraq etc. could of lead the world in technology, it was Islam that stopped them in their tracks and kept them in the middle ages, most of the knowledge learned by Islam came from the Greeks & Egyptians and translated for them by Europeans, on another note you never hear people say Christians invented or discovered anything, Muslims invented nothing, Persians did though imagine what they could have done.

Could you please point me to any advancement in Science or technology between the 8th and 13th century that happened in Europe?

[Bill Hill]

What went wrong then?

Allah er decide to stop giving them scientific inventions?

[questionmark]

What went wrong then?

Allah er decide to stop giving them scientific inventions?

No, as I said before we got the science from them and they took our (the European) fanaticism with them. We advanced and they regressed to date shakers and camel drivers.

Now we have the camel drivers demanding we go back to inquisition times.