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Muslims group demands full Shariah law


momentarylapseofreason
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I don't have a problem with Muslims (the nice and normal ones) But why the hell do some of them leave their country because of their ways and laws so they can have a better life then decide to make the UK like their countries... How does that even make sense?!

When they move here they should respect the laws and the way of life. They even get mosques from tax payers money?! Damn it even pi**es me of that we have to pay to keep churches etc fro the christian community. The UK needs to stop being walked all over.

Just to add, they do realise that the UK extremists (Natzi's/BNP types etc) Will all be there as well and it won't be pretty. :rolleyes:

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I don't have a problem with Muslims (the nice and normal ones) But why the hell do some of them leave their country because of their ways and laws so they can have a better life then decide to make the UK like their countries... How does that even make sense?!

When they move here they should respect the laws and the way of life. They even get mosques from tax payers money?! Damn it even pi**es me of that we have to pay to keep churches etc fro the christian community. The UK needs to stop being walked all over.

Just to add, they do realise that the UK extremists (Natzi's/BNP types etc) Will all be there as well and it won't be pretty. :rolleyes:

Gotta agree with you.

What I won't do is demonize 20% of the world's population because they have some radicals and on our side evidently there is some xenophobic needs to satisfy.

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No idea, you need to answer that, quit tap-dancing around the answer. So now what's the solution? Getting Muslims to turn into secular, logical thinking human beings. Apostasy is the answer IMO.

So, you are thinking logicly? Hm. What is logic for you?

Praying 5 times a day?

Go to church every Sunday?

Not to believe in God/Allah/Yahweh at all?

Pick one, just for funn.

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I don't have a problem with Muslims (the nice and normal ones) But why the hell do some of them leave their country because of their ways and laws so they can have a better life then decide to make the UK like their countries... How does that even make sense?!

When they move here they should respect the laws and the way of life. They even get mosques from tax payers money?! Damn it even pi**es me of that we have to pay to keep churches etc fro the christian community. The UK needs to stop being walked all over.

Just to add, they do realise that the UK extremists (Natzi's/BNP types etc) Will all be there as well and it won't be pretty. :rolleyes:

Finally a serious post without hatered but constractiv critisism. Good job, buddy.

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I don't have a problem with Muslims (the nice and normal ones) But why the hell do some of them leave their country because of their ways and laws so they can have a better life then decide to make the UK like their countries... How does that even make sense?!

When they move here they should respect the laws and the way of life. They even get mosques from tax payers money?! Damn it even pi**es me of that we have to pay to keep churches etc fro the christian community. The UK needs to stop being walked all over.

Just to add, they do realise that the UK extremists (Natzi's/BNP types etc) Will all be there as well and it won't be pretty. :rolleyes:

I'd like to see some evidence of that please. It is my understanding that all mosques are paid for by private donations! Goes to show what can be achieved when a community unites and works together for a common idealology, instead of locking the doors, drawing the curtains, and being 'entertained' by the latest instalment of coronation street or who wants to be a millionaire!

cheers

ste

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I'd like to see some evidence of that please. It is my understanding that all mosques are paid for by private donations! Goes to show what can be achieved when a community unites and works together for a common idealology, instead of locking the doors, drawing the curtains, and being 'entertained' by the latest instalment of coronation street or who wants to be a millionaire!

cheers

ste

... that, along with honor killings.

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Now, if you really had bothered to look it up, you would have discovered that science actually was thought at the time at the philosophy faculty under natural philosophy... oh yes..that was also true in Fez...durn!

Based on your criteria of 'university' which is those first to issue 'degrees.' regardless of objective subject matter or 'durn'... subjects.

I'll go with the first recognisable scientific method. :whistle:

1265 — Roger Bacon, an English monk, inspired by the writings of Grosseteste, described a scientific method, which he based on a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the manner in which he conducted his experiments in precise detail so that others could reproduce and independently test his results.

yep sounds good to me.

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Based on your criteria of 'university' which is those first to issue 'degrees.' regardless of objective subject matter or 'durn'... subjects.

I'll go with the first recognisable scientific method. :whistle:

1265 — Roger Bacon, an English monk, inspired by the writings of Grosseteste, described a scientific method, which he based on a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the manner in which he conducted his experiments in precise detail so that others could reproduce and independently test his results.

yep sounds good to me.

Goooooood, but you missed one:

"According to the majority of the historians al-Haytham was the pioneer of the modern scientific method. With his book he changed the meaning of the term optics and established experiments as the norm of proof in the field. His investigations are based not on abstract theories, but on experimental evidences and his experiments were systematic and repeatable"

They are referring to his "Book of Optics" (1021), 200 years previous to Bacon.

Source:

Rosanna Gorini (2003). "Al-Haytham the Man of Experience. First Steps in the Science of Vision", International Society for the History of Islamic Medicine. Institute of Neurosciences, Laboratory of Psychobiology and Psychopharmacology, Rome, Italy

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Goooooood, but you missed one:

Not him... almost the classic case of revisionism. Is it relevant he was a muslim? or muslim scientist.. as made out :rolleyes:

Islamic physics

Physics in medieval Islam included experimental physics, mathematical physics and theoretical physics. The fields of physics that were studied by Muslim scientists during this time also included optics and magnetism (which are both now part of electromagnetism), mechanics (including statics, dynamics, kinematics and motion), and astrophysics (see Islamic astronomy). These studies flourished in the Islamic world during the Islamic Golden Age, variously dated from the 8th century to the 16th century.

Roger Bacon, might've been an English monk, but because his method required independent verification, His faith is and was irrelevant.

... that, along with honor killings.

:lol:

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Not him... almost the classic case of revisionism. Is it relevant he was a muslim? or muslim scientist.. as made out :rolleyes:

Islamic physics

Physics in medieval Islam included experimental physics, mathematical physics and theoretical physics. The fields of physics that were studied by Muslim scientists during this time also included optics and magnetism (which are both now part of electromagnetism), mechanics (including statics, dynamics, kinematics and motion), and astrophysics (see Islamic astronomy). These studies flourished in the Islamic world during the Islamic Golden Age, variously dated from the 8th century to the 16th century.

Roger Bacon, might've been an English monk, but because his method required independent verification, His faith is and was irrelevant.

:lol:

Ah, you mean that it was more important that Bacon was a monk?

But we are digressing, the fact remains that until the 13th century Europe was in the science and technology dark age while in some Islamic countries, most notable, Morocco, Sudan, Egypt and Iran held the leading edge. I rest my case.

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Ah, you mean that it was more important that Bacon was a monk?

yes because that's what irrelevant means.. :unsure2:

But we are digressing, the fact remains that until the 13th century Europe was in the science and technology dark age while in some Islamic countries, most notable, Morocco, Sudan, Egypt and Iran held the leading edge. I rest my case.

mmmh then something happen..? weird, perhaps the European scientific method was a more effect means for producing effective technology in 'reality' than the Islamic scientific method.

No more further questions your honor. B)

Edited by Bill Hill
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So, you are thinking logicly? Hm. What is logic for you?

Praying 5 times a day?

Go to church every Sunday?

Not to believe in God/Allah/Yahweh at all?

Pick one, just for funn.

"None of the above silly wabbit"

Logic is certainly not the by-product of religion.

It is in the rejection of logic & reason that faith will continue to survive.

I'm an Agnostic who feels the existence of god cannot be proven, diproven or known.

I see you you are hopping merrily around my questions. Please Odas, come out of your rabbit hole that runs so deeply and answer the questions for a change, or better yet, you possibly already gave your answer indirectly?

It's not funny how you consistently tap dance around the questions.

I fear you answered the question already by not answering.

Do all my questions make you uncomfortable? Come on I dare you to answer them honestly :w00t:

Edited by momentarylapseofreason
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I'd like to see some evidence of that please. It is my understanding that all mosques are paid for by private donations! Goes to show what can be achieved when a community unites and works together for a common idealology, instead of locking the doors, drawing the curtains, and being 'entertained' by the latest instalment of coronation street or who wants to be a millionaire!

cheers

ste

More bad news....I'm feeling kinda Ayatollahish tonight

Study: 3 in 4 U.S. mosques preach anti-West extremism

Secret survey exposes widespread radicalism

An undercover survey of more than 100 mosques and Islamic schools in America has exposed widespread radicalism, including the alarming finding that 3 in 4 Islamic centers are hotbeds of anti-Western extremism, WND has learned.

The Mapping Sharia in America Project, sponsored by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, has trained former counterintelligence and counterterrorism agents from the FBI, CIA and U.S. military, who are skilled in Arabic and Urdu, to conduct undercover reconnaissance at some 2,300 mosques and Islamic centers and schools across the country. Read more ...

But "hey" it's free speech and they have that right. Just keep your eyes and ears peaked and ponder

http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/02/study-3-in-4-us-mosques-preach-anti.html << gotta give these Muslims credit :tu:

Edited by momentarylapseofreason
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I don't like Moslem's. One of the worst things to happen in this country was to allow uncontrolled immigration of its followers.its a shame we cant rewind the clock.

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I just found out about this. Apparently the group involved are a small group of jerk-offs who got about 20 guys to protest the return of British troops a while back. I would be shocked if they got more than 200 protesters, never mind 5000 (hell, I'd be surprised if the protest even makes it to Downing Street before fizzling out).

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I don't like Moslem's. One of the worst things to happen in this country was to allow uncontrolled immigration of its followers.its a shame we cant rewind the clock.

I certainly do not dislike all Muslims! And that's just wrong!

It is the ideology and opinion of Muahammad that I do not embrace nor respect.

Harmless & benevolent believers deserve our protection-beliefs do not.

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I certainly do not dislike all Muslims! And that's just wrong!

It is the ideology and opinion of Muahammad that I do not embrace nor respect.

Harmless & benevolent believers deserve our protection-beliefs do not.

I don't like any of them, full stop.

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This is an excellent article!

THE ONLY PROBLEM IS IT WAS WRITTEN IN 1990. Since that time we have been rudely awakened :unsure2:

A Clash of Civilizations

THE origins of secularism in the west may be found in two circumstances -- in early Christian teachings and, still more, experience, which created two institutions, Church and State; and in later Christian conflicts, which drove the two apart. Muslims, too, had their religious disagreements, but there was nothing remotely approaching the ferocity of the Christian struggles between Protestants and Catholics, which devastated Christian Europe in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries and finally drove Christians in desperation to evolve a doctrine of the separation of religion from the state. Only by depriving religious institutions of coercive power, it seemed, could Christendom restrain the murderous intolerance and persecution that Christians had visited on followers of other religions and, most of all, on those who professed other forms of their own.

There was no need for "Separation of Church and State" in Islam

Muslims experienced no such need and evolved no such doctrine. There was no need for secularism in Islam, and even its pluralism was very different from that of the pagan Roman Empire, so vividly described by Edward Gibbon when he remarked that "the various modes of worship, which prevailed in the Roman world, were all considered by the people, as equally true; by the philosopher, as equally false; and by the magistrate, as equally useful." Islam was never prepared, either in theory or in practice, to accord full equality to those who held other beliefs and practiced other forms of worship. It did, however, accord to the holders of partial truth a degree of practical as well as theoretical tolerance rarely paralleled in the Christian world until the West adopted a measure of secularism in the late-seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

At first the Muslim response to Western civilization was one of admiration and emulation -- an immense respect for the achievements of the West, and a desire to imitate and adopt them. This desire arose from a keen and growing awareness of the weakness, poverty, and backwardness of the Islamic world as compared with the advancing West. The disparity first became apparent on the battlefield but soon spread to other areas of human activity. Muslim writers observed and described the wealth and power of the West, its science and technology, its manufactures, and its forms of government. For a time the secret of Western success was seen to lie in two achievements: economic advancement and especially industry; political institutions and especially freedom. Several generations of reformers and modernizers tried to adapt these and introduce them to their own countries, in the hope that they would thereby be able to achieve equality with the West and perhaps restore their lost superiority.

In our own time this mood of admiration and emulation has, among many Muslims, given way to one of hostility and rejection. In part this mood is surely due to a feeling of humiliation -- a growing awareness, among the heirs of an old, proud, and long dominant civilization, of having been overtaken, overborne, and overwhelmed by those whom they regarded as their inferiors. In part this mood is due to events in the Western world itself. One factor of major importance was certainly the impact of two great suicidal wars, in which Western civilization tore itself apart, bringing untold destruction to its own and other peoples, and in which the belligerents conducted an immense propaganda effort, in the Islamic world and elsewhere, to discredit and undermine each other. The message they brought found many listeners, who were all the more ready to respond in that their own experience of Western ways was not happy. The introduction of Western commercial, financial, and industrial methods did indeed bring great wealth, but it accrued to transplanted Westerners and members of Westernized minorities, and to only a few among the mainstream Muslim population. In time these few became more numerous, but they remained isolated from the masses, differing from them even in their dress and style of life. Inevitably they were seen as agents of and collaborators with what was once again regarded as a hostile world. Even the political institutions that had come from the West were discredited, being judged not by their Western originals but by their local imitations, installed by enthusiastic Muslim reformers. These, operating in a situation beyond their control, using imported and inappropriate methods that they did not fully understand, were unable to cope with the rapidly developing crises and were one by one overthrown. For vast numbers of Middle Easterners, Western-style economic methods brought poverty, Western-style political institutions brought tyranny, even Western-style warfare brought defeat. It is hardly surprising that so many were willing to listen to voices telling them that the old Islamic ways were best and that their only salvation was to throw aside the pagan innovations of the reformers and return to the True Path that God had prescribed for his people.

The Struggle of Fundamentalists against Secularism and Modernism

ULTIMATELY, the struggle of the fundamentalists is against two enemies, secularism and modernism. The war against secularism is conscious and explicit, and there is by now a whole literature denouncing secularism as an evil neo-pagan force in the modern world and attributing it variously to the Jews, the West, and the United States. The war against modernity is for the most part neither conscious nor explicit, and is directed against the whole process of change that has taken place in the Islamic world in the past century or more and has transformed the political, economic, social, and even cultural structures of Muslim countries. Islamic fundamentalism has given an aim and a form to the otherwise aimless and formless resentment and anger of the Muslim masses at the forces that have devalued their traditional values and loyalties and, in the final analysis, robbed them of their beliefs, their aspirations, their dignity, and to an increasing extent even their livelihood.

There is something in the religious culture of Islam which inspired, in even the humblest peasant or peddler, a dignity and a courtesy toward others never exceeded and rarely equalled in other civilizations. And yet, in moments of upheaval and disruption, when the deeper passions are stirred, this dignity and courtesy toward others can give way to an explosive mixture of rage and hatred which impels even the government of an ancient and civilized country -- even the spokesman of a great spiritual and ethical religion -- to espouse kidnapping and assassination, and try to find, in the life of their Prophet, approval and indeed precedent for such actions.

The instinct of the masses is not false in locating the ultimate source of these cataclysmic changes in the West and in attributing the disruption of their old way of life to the impact of Western domination, Western influence, or Western precept and example. And since the United States is the legitimate heir of European civilization and the recognized and unchallenged leader of the West, the United States has inherited the resulting grievances and become the focus for the pent-up hate and anger. Two examples may suffice. In November of 1979 an angry mob attacked and burned the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan. The stated cause of the crowd's anger was the seizure of the Great Mosque in Mecca by a group of Muslim dissidents -- an event in which there was no American involvement whatsoever. Almost ten years later, in February of 1989, again in Islamabad, the USIS center was attacked by angry crowds, this time to protest the publication of Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses. Rushdie is a British citizen of Indian birth, and his book had been published five months previously in England. But what provoked the mob's anger, and also the Ayatollah Khomeini's subsequent pronouncement of a death sentence on the author, was the publication of the book in the United States.

alot more here:

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/rage.html

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There's a difference between true Muslims and people who identify themselves as Muslims.

Which are more trustworthy? True Muslims or people that claim they are Muslim.

I like Muslims that embrace free speech, contribute to the household of which we all share, show joy in being here, don't threaten us, don't scream offense to get their way and can assimilate fairly well and appreciate modern democracy (and still be Muslim).

Edited by momentarylapseofreason
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From the book "The River War" wrote in 1899 by Sir Winston Churchill aged 25.

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

110 years later it still rings true today. the religion is perverted.

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Which are more trustworthy? True Muslims or people that claim they are Muslim.

I like Muslims that embrace free speech, contribute to the household of which we all share, show joy in being here, don't threaten us, don't scream offense to get their way and can assimilate fairly well and appreciate modern democracy (and still be Muslim).

I think you just answered your own question. ;)

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I don't like any of them, full stop.

good for you now go cry in the corner.

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good for you now go cry in the corner.

:D don't be silly. someone doesn't agree with you on the internet, oh diddums.

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"None of the above silly wabbit"

Logic is certainly not the by-product of religion.

It is in the rejection of logic & reason that faith will continue to survive.

I'm an Agnostic who feels the existence of god cannot be proven, diproven or known.

I see you you are hopping merrily around my questions. Please Odas, come out of your rabbit hole that runs so deeply and answer the questions for a change, or better yet, you possibly already gave your answer indirectly?

It's not funny how you consistently tap dance around the questions.

I fear you answered the question already by not answering.

Do all my questions make you uncomfortable? Come on I dare you to answer them honestly :w00t:

What was the question again?

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