Labyrinth of Egypt

[mcrom901]

i came across this information through a project camelot interview.... since my earlier thread was covering other subjects & that it was moved.... thought of starting this new one...

Latest update!!!

September 19, 2009

The fabled Labyrinth may well have been exposed over the past few days. During the excavation works led by Dr. Zahi Hawass, and based on ground penetrating radar scans, the first stones of what seems to be one of the entrances to this massive Labyrinth can be seen in new pictures that were just made a few days ago.

The alleged Hall of Records is what many archeologists as well as historians and scientists hope to find. According to ancient scripture this room with ancient artifacts and superior knowledge of a forgotten culture would be safeguarded in this room. Finding this room may well change many of the current interpretations of our human evolution and beyond to lost knowledge about our planetary system…

The excavation works don’t come too early as an underground river containing contaminated water runs through the location where earlier GPR scans have found the Hawara Labyrinth. Much of the items that were stored in the Labyrinth, or any of its sacred rooms, may already have been damaged by this water. The first priority of Hawass excavation mission is to drain the Labyrinth and deviate the river around the area. This in itself will prove a big challenge but with such a big potential reward, finding the Hall of Records, nothing should be spared to reach the goal.

These are the images that came from the excavation site clearly showing an underground structure:

[mcrom901]

The mission of the Mataha-expedition was, besides preservation, to research the quarry theory by Petrie based on his finding of a great artificial stone surface (304meter on 244meter). Petrie interpreted the enormous artificial stone plateau he discovered at the depth of several meters, as the foundation of the labyrinth, concluding that the building itself was totally demolished, as a stone quarry in the Ptolemaic period. However, the “foundation” impenetrated by early expeditions, never lost the possibility of being the roof of the Labyrinth, described by Strabo as a great plain of stone. The Mataha – expedition research goal was to confirms the presence of archaeological features at the labyrinth area south of the Hawara pyramid of Amenemhet III.

The Mataha-expedition discovered the lost labyrinth of Egypt at Hawara.

A colossal temple described by many classic authors like Herodotus and Strabo, to contain 3000 rooms full of hieroglyphs and paintings. A legendary building lost for 2 millenia under the ancient sands of Egypt. Bringing the highest level of technology to unlock the secrets of the past. The sand of Hawara was scanned earlier this year (February-March 2008) by the Belgian Egyptian expedition team. Although ground penetrating techniques have been used by archaeologists for years, the Mataha-expedition (Mataha = labyrinth in Arabic) was the first to apply this technology at Hawara, to solve the enigma born in the Renaissance for once.

Mataha Expedition: Labyrinth of Egypt at Hawara

The conclusion of the Hawara geophysic-survey is officially released by the Egyptian authorities at the workshop in Cairo organized by the NRIAG on 11 of August 2008. This took place in the presence of some members of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, a representative of UNESCO, professors of international Universities, researchers of Cairo based archaeological institutes and a small selection of specialized archaeological press.

Before taking off with the conclusion, it needs to be said that the presented geo-archaeological results about the Labyrinth were received with positive scepticism by archaeologists and alike, who still prefer to believe actual excavation as confirmation of the discovery, without touching the integrity of the geophysic team professionalism. This feeling of doubt was expected like geophysic technics are new in the field of archaeology. Till very recently geophysics were namely only used by the military and oil industry. All geophysic results regarding the groundwater and the geologic situation, are in contrast fully taken for granted by all parties, and even formed the actual start of the existing preservation master plan for the Hawara archaeological site, by the Egyptian government and the Supreme council of Antiquities.

The mission of the Mataha-expedition was, besides preservation, to research the quarry theory by Petrie based on his finding of a great artificial stone surface (304meter on 244meter). Petrie interpreted the enormous artificial stone plateau he discovered at the depth of several meters, as the foundation of the labyrinth, concluding that the building itself was totally demolished, as a stone quarry in the Ptolemaic period. However, the “foundation” impenetrated by early expeditions, never lost the possibility of being the roof of the Labyrinth, described by Strabo as a great plain of stone.

The Mataha – expedition research confirms the presence of archaeological features at the labyrinth area south of the Hawara pyramid of Amenemhet III. These features covering an underground area of several hectares, have the prominent signature of vertical walls on the geophysical results. The vertical walls with an average thickness of several meters, are connected to shape nearly closed rooms, which are interpreted to be huge in number. Consequently, the geophysic survey initiated with the cordial permission of Dr. Zahi Hawass the president of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, and conducted by the National Research Institute of Astronomy and Geophysics (Helwan, Cairo) with the support of Ghent University, can now officially verify the occurrence of big parts of the Labyrinth as described by the classic authors at the study area. The Labyrinth data are acquired mainly from 2 scanned surfaces at the labyrinth area south of the pyramid. One scan survey of 150m by 100m on the right site of the Bahr Wahbi canal, and one on the left site (80m by 100m). Two considerations regarding the conclusion. Seen the survey provided only two big puzzles, the total size and shape of the labyrinth can not yet been concluded. Secondly, the data of the labyrinth are accurate, because of the exceptional dimensions of the structure, but the geophysic profiles still need some filtration to give more details. Groundwater affected the consistency of the survey. The partial defacement of the data is due to the high salinity of the shallow subsurface water and the seasonal fluctuation of this level. So we recommend also another episode of geophysical survey after the dewatering project to enhance the outcome to great extent.

In the upper ground zone above the water level, walls appear at the shallow depth ranging between 1,5 to 2,5 meters. These decayed mudbrick features are very chaotic and show no consistent grid structure and can be comfortably related with the historic period of the Ptolemaic and Roman times. A period in which is known, that the labyrinth area was used as a cemetery, and probably also changed to a living area in the Byzantine period. Underneath this upper zone, below the artificial stone surface appears (in spite of the turbid effect of the groundwater) at the depth of 8 to 12 meters a grid structure of gigantic size made of a very high resistivity material like granit stone. This states the presence of a colossal archaeological feature below the labyrinth “foundation” zone of Petrie, which has to be reconsidered as the roof of the still existing labyrinth. The conclusion of the geo-archaeological expedition encounters in a scientific way the idea that the labyrinth was destructed as a stone quary in Ptolemaic times and validates the authenticity of the classical author reports. The massive grid structure of the labyrinth is also out of angle by 20° to 25° from the Hawara pyramid orientation. An analysis shifting the contemporary idea of the labyrinth as funerary temple and its supposed construction age, but on the other hand it hardens Herodotus accuracy, who described the nearby pyramid to be at the corner of the labyrinth. It might even be considered that the remains of the labyrinth run unaffectedly underneath the canal, which crosses the total Hawara area. Like the scanned Labyrinth sections on both sides of Bahr Wahbi canal have similar and parallel grids on the geophysical results.

From a preservative view of the Hawara archaeological site, humanity is now facing a great challenge. The water level, which raised dramatically since the last decades, is detected at a depth of about 4-5 meters below the ground surface at the labyrinth area. Drowning the whole site completely in the corrosive salty water, which agressively destructs the stones of the labyrinth on a great scale. Making environmental protection directly the utmost necessity. UNESCO committee members publicly considered after the official release of the research conclusion at the workshop in Cairo, to mark the total Hawara site “world heritage”, as the first UNESCO step towards the launch of an international safeguarding campaign. This should be a great honour en help, like Hawara not only contains important Middle Kingdom to late Roman antiquities, but also the greatest wonder of the classical world. With the words of Herodotus “surpassing even the great pyramids of Giza”.

In contrast to many sites, which become vulnerable to illegal excavations and theft after the release of their discovery, the Labyrinth is contradictory protected from illegal human activity by the saline water that destroys it. A situation we can not push towards a next generation without presenting an empty box, like all hieroglyphic texts as described by the classic others will be very soon lost forever, eaten out by salt crystals.

An archaeological rescue operation as never seen before will therefore have to be organized, to raise the necessary media attention, experts, technology and funds to start the drainage, protection and the total excavation of the labyrinth of Egypt. The Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities expressed their great devotion and responsibility by announcing the start of the actual renovate master plan for the site, but as a the labyrinth affects the whole world, we are responsible to work together with this great country that bears already the heavy weight to preserve and protect the remains of a giant civilization. A fantastic country with great people, that is reaching a warm hand to the rest of the world to share this new discovered global human heritage.

The Mataha-Expedition team therefore directs the need for any kind of support to all man. We believe that humanity reached the point of civilization to be able to work unconditional together at high efficiency with the honorary aim to protect and discover the colossal stone book that the ancients built with an unimaginable effort of love, to communicate with us from the deep black of time.

Mataha-Expedition website: http://www.mataha.org/

Herodotus' Egyptian Labyrinth

Even more generally, labyrinth might be applied to any extremely complicated maze-like structure. Herodotus, in Book II of his Histories, describes as a "labyrinth" a building complex in Egypt, "near the place called the City of Crocodiles," that he considered to surpass the pyramids in its astonishing ambition:

It has twelve covered courts — six in a row facing north, six south — the gates of the one range exactly fronting the gates of the other. Inside, the building is of two storeys and contains three thousand rooms, of which half are underground, and the other half directly above them. I was taken through the rooms in the upper storey, so what I shall say of them is from my own observation, but the underground ones I can speak of only from report, because the Egyptians in charge refused to let me see them, as they contain the tombs of the kings who built the labyrinth, and also the tombs of the sacred crocodiles. The upper rooms, on the contrary, I did actually see, and it is hard to believe that they are the work of men; the baffling and intricate passages from room to room and from court to court were an endless wonder to me, as we passed from a courtyard into rooms, from rooms into galleries, from galleries into more rooms and thence into yet more courtyards. The roof of every chamber, courtyard, and gallery is, like the walls, of stone. The walls are covered with carved figures, and each court is exquisitely built of white marble and surrounded by a colonnade.*

* Source: Peck, Harry Thurston (chief editor). "Hieratic Papyrus. (Twentieth Dynasty.)" in the Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities, published 1898, page 29.

During the time of Sir William Smith, the remains of the "Labyrinthus" (as he calls it) were discovered "11 1/2 miles from the pyramid of Hawara, in the province of Faioum." As professor Smith states in the Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities (1870), the Labyrinthus was likely modified and added upon "at various times. The names of more than one king have been found there, the oldest" name being that of Amenemhat III. "It is unnecessary to imagine more than that it was monumental, and a monument of more than one king of Egypt."

In 1898, the Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities described the structure as "the largest of all the temples of Egypt, the so-called Labyrinth, of which, however, only the foundation stones have been preserved."

[Cynical Sounds]

Honestly I don't think there will be alot left the area has suffered heavy flooding and the entrance of the near by pyramid still lies under a considerable amount of water I think its likely large sections will be either very badly damaged or completely destroyed.

The alleged Hall of Records is what many archeologists as well as historians and scientists hope to find. According to ancient scripture this room with ancient artifacts and superior knowledge of a forgotten culture would be safeguarded in this room. Finding this room may well change many of the current interpretations of our human evolution and beyond to lost knowledge about our planetary system…

I've never heard of the hall of records could u link me to a translation of the scriptures that claim there is superior knowledge from ancient civilizations?

Edited October 16, 2009 by Spend

[Pax Unum]

According to ancient scripture this room with ancient artifacts and superior knowledge of a forgotten culture would be safeguarded in this room.

could you supply a credible link to this 'ancient scripture' that supposedly mentions artifacts, superior knowledge and a forgotten culture? this sounds like a lot of BS...

[jaylemurph]

could you supply a credible link to this 'ancient scripture' that supposedly mentions artifacts, superior knowledge and a forgotten culture? this sounds like a lot of BS...

Speaking of credible, I'm not aware of any credible historian or archaeologist hoping to find a "hall of records" in that area. I think the fringe are again referring to the vast army of fungible, party line archaeologists and historians that only exist in CT fantasy and that they use in place of any real academic community.

--Jaylemurph

[jules99]

Im sure credible archaeologists and historians wouldnt want to locate records that turned our current view of history on its head. Think of all the rewriting...The unlearning...The headache

[drakonwick]

Im sure credible archaeologists and historians wouldnt want to locate records that turned our current view of history on its head. Think of all the rewriting...The unlearning...The headache

Are you serious? If any credible archaeologists or historians found any evidence that differs from the current understanding on what has been found on egypt, they would gladly send out the new information. Of course though, this would require further studies on the new findings, but this is how science works.

[jules99]

Are you serious? If any credible archaeologists or historians found any evidence that differs from the current understanding on what has been found on egypt, they would gladly send out the new information. Of course though, this would require further studies on the new findings, but this is how science works.

Hi Moro Bumbleroot;

There are Egyptian artifacts held in museums that defy current understanding of how they were made.

http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/hrdfact3.php

Some artifacts imply a level of technical sophistication on behalf of the maker that modern science seems reluctant to allow credit for. I think these artifacts may contradict our current understanding of technology available in ancient Egypt.

Scientists,credible or otherwise are human also, and not above having there own agenda's..and like any other person, if they have a lot to lose (like professional pride or standing),having enjoyed acceptance could not relish the thought of being proven wrong. Who would?

[maximaldecimal]

I think the records are implied by Herodotus by the intricate carvings on the wall. All of which could be constreud as records of a variation. It will be most stimulating to see if they can find anything thats still viable down there. It would be a shame if all that art and culture was washed away over the years.

[Swede]

Hi Moro Bumbleroot;

There are Egyptian artifacts held in museums that defy current understanding of how they were made.

http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/hrdfact3.php

Some artifacts imply a level of technical sophistication on behalf of the maker that modern science seems reluctant to allow credit for. I think these artifacts may contradict our current understanding of technology available in ancient Egypt.

Scientists,credible or otherwise are human also, and not above having there own agenda's..and like any other person, if they have a lot to lose (like professional pride or standing),having enjoyed acceptance could not relish the thought of being proven wrong. Who would?

To say that certain artifacts "defy current understanding" may be a bit of a mis-perception. Please see below. Be sure to note the supporting evidence incorporated into the artifacts themselves.

http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/modren_stone_vases.html

http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_slabbing_saws.html

http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/Tomb_3111.html

[cladking]

To say that certain artifacts "defy current understanding" may be a bit of a mis-perception. Please see below. Be sure to note the supporting evidence incorporated into the artifacts themselves.

Well... ...you do have to accept that the intricately carved

greywacke object from Sabu's grave is a "ceremonial bowl".

[Swede]

Well... ...you do have to accept that the intricately carved

greywacke object from Sabu's grave is a "ceremonial bowl".

Chuckle! Not to be argumentative, but, as noted in the text, even that interpretation is subjective. The exact function of the metasiltstone object is a topic that is subject to debate. With that said, its unique qualities, its association with other funerary items, and the nature of the burial itself, would tend to imply that it may have had religious implications.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Swede

[+DieChecker]

The fabled Labyrinth may well have been exposed over the past few days. During the excavation works led by Dr. Zahi Hawass, and based on ground penetrating radar scans, the first stones of what seems to be one of the entrances to this massive Labyrinth can be seen in new pictures that were just made a few days ago.

I'll be more hopeful when I read of explorations of the underground chambers. Right now those pics look like a disused well that was covered up to protect domestic animals.

The alleged Hall of Records is what many archeologists as well as historians and scientists hope to find. According to ancient scripture this room with ancient artifacts and superior knowledge of a forgotten culture would be safeguarded in this room. Finding this room may well change many of the current interpretations of our human evolution and beyond to lost knowledge about our planetary system…

There have always been rumors of hidden chambers, because... well... because the Egyptians built underground hidden chambers. I thought the term "Hall of Records" originated from Edgar Cayce back in the early 20th century.

Till very recently geophysics were namely only used by the military and oil industry.

It should be a simple matter to determine if there is any underground mazeworks in the area, especially if they are only a few meters underground. The air, or water, in these tunnels will change the way the heat leaves the ground, either holding it, water, or loosing it quicker, air, such that any aerial IR photography or satalite image will show some weird outlines that will be the tunnels. If the tunnels are more then a dozen meters down then this won't work, but then the labyrinth would represent a work of stone greater then the Great Pyramid, and that I think would be apparent from ancient records, if it were true.

I hope this is true, but I fear that even if it is, anything in the network of rooms will have long been destroyed by the saline water. Wall carvings, friezes and any wood or paper will be totally destroyed. The only hope would be precious metals. If it is a big as is said, it will be a ripe fruit to be plucked by robbers. There will need to be hundreds of guards.

[mcrom901]

I'll be more hopeful when I read of explorations of the underground chambers. Right now those pics look like a disused well that was covered up to protect domestic animals.

well.....

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15184925

[kmt_sesh]

To say that certain artifacts "defy current understanding" may be a bit of a mis-perception. Please see below. Be sure to note the supporting evidence incorporated into the artifacts themselves.

http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/modren_stone_vases.html

http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_slabbing_saws.html

http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/Tomb_3111.html

When you read something on the web to the effect of "defy current understanding," you can almost always be certain that it is much more than a bit of a misperception. It is something written either by someone with grandiose tendencies or by someone who does not understand the manufacture of material culture in the ancient Near East. In either case, it's not to be taken seriously. Quite honestly, all of the objects on this web page, while indeed beautiful, are standard fare from ancient Egypt. None is a unique example. Their methods of manufacture are well understood for the most part--if one takes the time to conduct proper research in manufacturing techniques (by which I mean closing your web browser and turning to the literature written by the experts who understand this stuff).

The "labyrinth" is another thing much distorted on the internet. This archaeological site is well understood and has been carefully excavated for many, many years. It dates to the Middle Kingdom. Given the distorted descriptions Herodotus gives of this particular site and others in the vicinity, it's quite plausible he never actually visited it himself but was writing from second-hand accounts.

It's amazing how quickly the answers come when people exercise at least a wee bit of common sense.

[Swede]

When you read something on the web to the effect of "defy current understanding," you can almost always be certain that it is much more than a bit of a misperception. It is something written either by someone with grandiose tendencies or by someone who does not understand the manufacture of material culture in the ancient Near East. In either case, it's not to be taken seriously. Quite honestly, all of the objects on this web page, while indeed beautiful, are standard fare from ancient Egypt. None is a unique example. Their methods of manufacture are well understood for the most part--if one takes the time to conduct proper research in manufacturing techniques (by which I mean closing your web browser and turning to the literature written by the experts who understand this stuff).

The "labyrinth" is another thing much distorted on the internet. This archaeological site is well understood and has been carefully excavated for many, many years. It dates to the Middle Kingdom. Given the distorted descriptions Herodotus gives of this particular site and others in the vicinity, it's quite plausible he never actually visited it himself but was writing from second-hand accounts.

It's amazing how quickly the answers come when people exercise at least a wee bit of common sense.

kmt_sesh - I fully agree. One of the essential components of archaeological research is context/association. All to often we see cases where a single object is isolated from its primary context and then touted as some sort of mind boggling anomaly. Qualified interpretation of a site is consistently based on the assessment and inclusion of all the physical, environmental and cultural aspects that may be present. This is a factor that would appear to be overlooked (deliberately or otherwise) by far to many fringe "authorities".

I find the Great Pyramid/water pump hypothesis equatable. No parallel support, no need, no corroborating evidence. And no extant evidence of hydrological wear or sedimentation. Interesting.

[kmt_sesh]

kmt_sesh - I fully agree. One of the essential components of archaeological research is context/association. All to often we see cases where a single object is isolated from its primary context and then touted as some sort of mind boggling anomaly. Qualified interpretation of a site is consistently based on the assessment and inclusion of all the physical, environmental and cultural aspects that may be present. This is a factor that would appear to be overlooked (deliberately or otherwise) by far to many fringe "authorities".

I find the Great Pyramid/water pump hypothesis equatable. No parallel support, no need, no corroborating evidence. And no extant evidence of hydrological wear or sedimentation. Interesting.

All good points, Swede. Unfortunately many fringe fans choose to mistrust "qualified interpretation," which I simply don't understand. They see cabals and conspiracies in every corner, and so they hide in the dark rather than choosing the enlightenment that proper research bestows. It's not just silly, but sad. All the information is out there, but I suppose it's easier and requires less intellectual commitment to look at an object about which you know nothing and say, "Oh, look, it's proof of alien intervention" or "lost civilization" or "forgotten advanced technology," or whatever falderal seems most fanciful.

The water-pump idea is nonsense. I cannot begin to imagine how anyone would take this seriously. Believing this about the Great Pyramid is a particularly dramatic example of an uninformed and pitifully anachronistic opinion.

My, it seems I'm in a mood today!

[questionmark]

My, it seems I'm in a mood today!

Ok, seeing that you have it under control I am taking the day off...

[kmt_sesh]

Ok, seeing that you have it under control I am taking the day off...

Not so fast there, questionmark. I have the day off and am just sitting here entertaining myself while my laundry is churning away, so I'm going to be heading out soon. You've already punched in, so you're stuck for the full eight-hour shift. We can't leave the fringies unsupervised, after all.

[Harte]

I cannot begin to imagine how anyone would take this seriously. Believing this ... is a particularly dramatic example of an uninformed and pitifully anachronistic opinion.

Many say the same about Cubs fans! LOL

Harte

[zoser]

Not so fast there, questionmark. I have the day off and am just sitting here entertaining myself while my laundry is churning away, so I'm going to be heading out soon. You've already punched in, so you're stuck for the full eight-hour shift. We can't leave the fringies unsupervised, after all.

Are you certain that you as well as Abe, QM, JM, are not the fringe now? Orthodox Ancient History seems so discredited these days, while original thinking more open minded folk seem to be on the ascendancy! Maybe you represent the Neanderthals of Archaeological Science! LOL

Edited October 19, 2009 by zoser

[drakonwick]

Are you certain that you as well as Abe, QM, JM, are not the fringe now? Orthodox Ancient History seems so discredited these days, while original thinking more open minded folk seem to be on the ascendancy! Maybe you represent the Neanderthals of Archaeological Science! LOL

Thats interesting! I would honestly like to know where you got that information. Or is it just more or less of your on opinion?

[kmt_sesh]

Are you certain that you as well as Abe, QM, JM, are not the fringe now? Orthodox Ancient History seems so discredited these days, while original thinking more open minded folk seem to be on the ascendancy! Maybe you represent the Neanderthals of Archaeological Science! LOL

Discredited by whom? By fringe authors? No one takes them seriously in the first place, so no one of serious intent turns to them for answers. On their colorful web pages fringies like to try to poke at orthodox history, but the internet is not truly a legitimate research tool so, again, no one takes them seriously.

I tell you this in all honesty and sincerity, zoser, and I've mentioned it many times here at UM: in the 20-plus years I've been studying the Near East and have been exposed to fringe literature along the way, not once have I seen a fringe author present a single argument that could upset or rewrite any precept of orthodox historical research. I'm serious--not even once.

Being open minded is one thing. That's fine. Historians are every bit as open minded as anyone else, but they frame their work based on extant evidence, which the fringe hides from at all costs. Fringe writers do not write about historical fact; they write science fiction.

[kmt_sesh]

Many say the same about Cubs fans! LOL

Harte

Hey, I'm no fan of the Cubs or the lemmings they call fans, so ridicule them all you want.

[lightly]

Hey, I'm no fan of the Cubs or the lemmings they call fans, so ridicule them all you want.

hi kmt_sesh... did you remember to take your laundry our of the dryer? okeydoke.