Atlantis

[ShadowSot]

Shadowsot, were you talking ancient cities?

Yes, actually.

[Qoais]

Are you referring to the atomic war that supposedly took place as described in the Vedas?

When the Rishi City of Mohenjodaro was excavated by archeologists in the last century, they found skeletons just lying in the streets, some of them holding hands, as if some great doom had suddenly overtaken them.

These skeletons are among the most radioactive ever found, on a par with those found at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Ancient cities whose brick and stone walls have literaly been vitrified, that is-fused together, can be found in India, Ireland, Scotland, France, Turkey and other places.

There is no logical explanation for the vitrification of stone forts and cities, except from an atomic blast.

Futhermore, at Mohenjo-Daro, a well planned city laid on a grid, with a plumbing system superior to those used in Pakistan and India today, the streets were littered with "black lumps of glass."

These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat!

[questionmark]

These globs of glass were discovered to be clay pots that had melted under intense heat!

I suspect that you do not have that piece of information from the expedition reports.

[Qoais]

I suspect you're right. I know I nicked that from somewhere, but I've been looking all day and can't find the spot

[TheSearcher]

She tested tissue from 134 naturally preserved bodies from an excavated cemetery in the Sudan, once part of the Egyptian empire. Although from a later period, the bodies were still many centuries before Columbus discovered the Americas. About a third of them tested positive for nicotine and cocaine.

Balabanova was mystified by the presence of cocaine in Africa but thought she might have a way of explaining the nicotine. As well as Egypt and the Sudan, she tested bodies from China, Germany and Austria, spanning a period from 3700BC to 1100AD. A percentage of bodies from all these other regions also contained nicotine.

Egypt:89%

Sudan:90%

China:62.5%

Germany:34%

Austria 100%

"I continued to work on it because I wanted to be sure of my results, and after 3000 samples I, was absolutely certain that the tobacco plant was known in Europe and Africa long before Columbus."

Far from being solved, the mytery that began in Egypt was spreading. Balabanova was suggesting that an unknown type of tobacco had grown in Europe, Africa and Asia thousands of years ago. But every schoolchild knows that tobacco was discovered in the New World. She was asking for a substantial slice of botany and history to be completely rewritten. Would anyone back her up?

Dr Balabonova had told us that we might find the secret of the mysterious presence of nicotine and cocaine in Egyptan mummies in the ancient plants of Africa. Perhaps there had been drug plants which the Egyptians had used but had vanished along with their civilisation. This led to a much more basic question. Were the Egyptians, the great Pharaos and pyramid builders really users and abusers of drugs?

http://www.larryjzimmerman.com/lost/coctrans.htm

Quais, your answer is a bit besides the point. Read my answer again, if you want, the only mummies in which Balabonova ever found cocaine, regardeless of their provenance, age or culture, are the ones from the Munich Museum. The only exception being South American mummies. Does that not strike you as extremly odd? Seriously?

Besides, you use the Equinox documentary as source I noticed, well, here there is a tid bit of info that you might not be aware of :

In 1996, three samples from mummies in the Manchester Museum were tested for drugs as part of an Equinox documentary 'The Mystery Of The Cocaine Mummies'. The lab doing the tests was unidentified in the show, but in "Egypt Uncovered" by Vivian Davis and Renne Friedman was named as Medimass Labs. Manchester Museum declined to comment for this article. A search of the Manchester phone book revealed no lab by that name and further extensive searching turned up no more information about the company. So beyond the fact reported in the documentary that the mummies tested positive for nicotine, the precise levels remain unknown. (source : William Jacobs article in Fortean Times 117.)

[Qoais]

Well Searcher, all I can do is highlight the parts where it says other ancient remains and places where the remains were from. I don't think this means the bodies were all in Munich.

And if that wasn't enough, it turned out that the results from the Munich mummies were not the only evidence from the dead. The anthropologists who originally ordered the tests didn't continue the project. But Balabanova, alongside her normal research into the metabolism of drugs started requesting samples of other ancient human remains from universities. And it was then that she got more results from Egypt.

She tested tissue from 134 naturally preserved bodies from an excavated cemetery in the Sudan, once part of the Egyptian empire. Although from a later period, the bodies were still many centuries before Columbus discovered the Americas. About a third of them tested positive for nicotine and cocaine.

Balabanova was mystified by the presence of cocaine in Africa but thought she might have a way of explaining the nicotine. As well as Egypt and the Sudan, she tested bodies from China, Germany and Austria, spanning a period from 3700BC to 1100AD. A percentage of bodies from all these other regions also contained nicotine.

I didn't know this was an Equinox interview and even if I had of figured it out, I wouldn't have thought anything bad of it. I think the woman from Manchester is trying to ride on the coat tails of Balabanova then, trying to get attention for her own museum or something or to try to upstage Balabanova. Balabanova's tests did cause a furor. What other source would you like to use?

[TheSearcher]

Well Searcher, all I can do is highlight the parts where it says other ancient remains and places where the remains were from. I don't think this means the bodies were all in Munich.

And if that wasn't enough, it turned out that the results from the Munich mummies were not the only evidence from the dead. The anthropologists who originally ordered the tests didn't continue the project. But Balabanova, alongside her normal research into the metabolism of drugs started requesting samples of other ancient human remains from universities. And it was then that she got more results from Egypt.

She tested tissue from 134 naturally preserved bodies from an excavated cemetery in the Sudan, once part of the Egyptian empire. Although from a later period, the bodies were still many centuries before Columbus discovered the Americas. About a third of them tested positive for nicotine and cocaine.

Balabanova was mystified by the presence of cocaine in Africa but thought she might have a way of explaining the nicotine. As well as Egypt and the Sudan, she tested bodies from China, Germany and Austria, spanning a period from 3700BC to 1100AD. A percentage of bodies from all these other regions also contained nicotine.

I didn't know this was an Equinox interview and even if I had of figured it out, I wouldn't have thought anything bad of it. I think the woman from Manchester is trying to ride on the coat tails of Balabanova then, trying to get attention for her own museum or something or to try to upstage Balabanova. Balabanova's tests did cause a furor. What other source would you like to use?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this, respectfully . One thing I did notice though (and I think I'm not the only one that said it), is that certain plants containing nicotine were used for the embalming process, which in itself would account for the nicotine found in and on the mummies.

But like others said, back to topic, lest we get singled out by our dear mods. Any site were I could look up on Mohenjodaro? I must admit that I'm sorely lacking in knowledge about this.

[Qoais]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this, respectfully . One thing I did notice though (and I think I'm not the only one that said it), is that certain plants containing nicotine were used for the embalming process, which in itself would account for the nicotine found in and on the mummies.

But like others said, back to topic, lest we get singled out by our dear mods. Any site were I could look up on Mohenjodaro? I must admit that I'm sorely lacking in knowledge about this.

Ok, but I'd just like to repeat that the tests done on the hair shafts were proof positive that the drugs had been ingested before death.

The bit that is going to cause the crap to hit the fan, is that bit about how the place is still supposed to be loaded with radiation after all this time - after the nuclear war of the Indians as described in their vedas. (I soooo hate it when I try to go back in my notes to find stuff, and I can't )

Edited November 19, 2009 by Qoais

[TheSearcher]

Ok, but I'd just like to repeat that the tests done on the hair shafts were proof positive that the drugs had been ingested before death.

The bit that is going to cause the crap to hit the fan, is that bit about how the place is still supposed to be loaded with radiation after all this time - after the nuclear war of the Indians as described in their vedas. (I soooo hate it when I try to go back in my notes to find stuff, and I can't )

Qoais, I read up a bit on Mohenjo-Daro, found a few good sites which show plenty of pics, and good explanations. When it comes to the vitrified bricks, radioactive skeletons, etc, I only seem to find this on (sorry for the term) fringer sites and all of the sites seem to source back to the same article, namely the one from the PRAVDA.

I did some checking btw, on the contents of this article and some things made me tic a bit (besides the fact that the Pravda is not known for it's scientific correctness), the article mentions "Scientists Davenport and Vincenti". Weeeeelll, David Davenport, is a Sanskrit student and Ettore Vincenti is an italian journalist, hardly scientists, in my opinion.

This said, do you or anyone else for that matter, have some links to or books about, serious research into this matter? The first one to mention Sitchin, Von Däniken and their ilk, will be meeting the firing squad up close!

Seriously though, some more info about serious research would be appreciated.

[Harte]

I suspect you're right. I know I nicked that from somewhere, but I've been looking all day and can't find the spot

Good reason to utilize wiki.

Usually they present both sides, eventually.

The entry was edited last Dec. to include the info about skeptical views. You might try finding more recent info (shocked quartz, for example), as the investigation is still ongoing today.

Harte

[questionmark]

I suspect you're right. I know I nicked that from somewhere, but I've been looking all day and can't find the spot

All official excavation protocols (except the conservation work done in the last 10 years) are available as pdf on the net.

[Qoais]

Good reason to utilize wiki.

Usually they present both sides, eventually.

The entry was edited last Dec. to include the info about skeptical views. You might try finding more recent info (shocked quartz, for example), as the investigation is still ongoing today.

Harte

Questionmark

All official excavation protocols (except the conservation work done in the last 10 years) are available as pdf on the net

.

Are you two on union rates here or something that you couldn't give the guy a link or two?

[Qoais]

Qoais, I read up a bit on Mohenjo-Daro, found a few good sites which show plenty of pics, and good explanations. When it comes to the vitrified bricks, radioactive skeletons, etc, I only seem to find this on (sorry for the term) fringer sites and all of the sites seem to source back to the same article, namely the one from the PRAVDA.

I did some checking btw, on the contents of this article and some things made me tic a bit (besides the fact that the Pravda is not known for it's scientific correctness), the article mentions "Scientists Davenport and Vincenti". Weeeeelll, David Davenport, is a Sanskrit student and Ettore Vincenti is an italian journalist, hardly scientists, in my opinion.

This said, do you or anyone else for that matter, have some links to or books about, serious research into this matter? The first one to mention Sitchin, Von Däniken and their ilk, will be meeting the firing squad up close!

Seriously though, some more info about serious research would be appreciated.

That's why I said crap was going to hit the fan. There doesn't seem to be any scientific work saying the place is still glowing!!!!

[questionmark]

That's why I said crap was going to hit the fan. There doesn't seem to be any scientific work saying the place is still glowing!!!!

It is, but not for the reasons you think, The Chasma nuclear plant is using the water of the Indus as cooling agent... the Indus runs through near Mohenjo-Daro. Shortly after the start of Chasma all excavation and scientifically work has stopped there, except some conservation work by Pakistani teams.

You see, there is an explanation without Nibblers or prehistoric atomic explosions.

[Qoais]

Not so fast.

Let's not get our cannabis in a knot just yet. I've e-mailed this Christian Koerberl to ask him a few questions. I think what he says sounds kind of weak. We're talking 6400 sq. km. here, with a pure rate of 95-99%. Seems to me, a meteor would show more than miniscule traces in an overall area that large. But, since I'm no PhD on the subject, just figured I'd ask

ANSWER:

Hello -

Thanks for your interest in the Libyan Desert Glass. It is not an easy topic, and, yes, there are still open questions. I'll try to give you a few short answers, which I hope will help to understand what might have happened.

Earlier there were two to three main hypotheses, involving either glass meteorites, or an impact of an extraterrestrial body of some sort, or a low-temperature (local, hydrothermal) origin. Nobody has ever seen any glass meteorites, and the glass itself has the chemical characteristics (from isotope geochemistry) of terrestrial crustal rocks, so hypothesis no. 1 is impossible. Hypothesis no. 3 was disproved by the discovery of clear evidence of a high-temperature origin of the glass (at least 1800 degrees Celsius - not sure where you are from so i don't know if you calculate in Celsius or Fahrenheit), so this is impossible, too.

That leaves version no. 2, involving an impact of an extraterrestrial body. This question was more or less settled among the involved scientists over the past 10 years or so. (Which should not mean there are some holdouts, but the data are fairly clear).

You are citing a short paper that I wrote on the confirmation of the presence of extraterrestrial material in Libyan Desert Glass. There is no contradiction with the amount of extraterrestrial material, because the basic principle of an impact is that a comparatively small body impacts the earth (or any other planetary surface) with very high speed, on Earth from ca. 11-72 km/second. This releases enormous amounts of energy that lead to a rather big crater - about 20 times larger in diameter than the original meteorite/asteroid; in terms of volume the ratio is even larger. In impact breccias or melt rocks of known impact craters we usually have an admixture of extraterrestrial material that is less much than one percent (by volume), usually less than 0.1%, and such small amounts are tricky to detect, but it is possible to do this with some fancy geochemical techniques. This is what we did for the Desert Glass.

(Note, please, that a "meteor" is just the effect of a (small) extraterrestrial body traversing the atmosphere and it is mostly ionized air that we see; if anything survives, its called a meteorite when it hits the ground; small ones are decelerated in the atmosphere and fall to the ground, large ones (size of a house and up) slice through the atmosphere too fast to slow down and they hit the surface with the above mentioned hypervelocity impact speed and cause craters).

In the glass there is clear evidence of very high temperatures, in the form of various quartz modifications and dissolved zircon grains (from the terrestrial target rock). This, together with the minor traces of extraterrestrial contamination in the glass, provide rather clear evidence for the involvement of an extraterrestrial body.

Your question about the missing crater is a valid one. However, craters are not permanent objects, they are rather shallow features, and can erode very quickly. My interpretation is that the crater was there 30 million years ago but is not eroded and there is just the very bottom of the crater left. The glass has dispersed since is formation, of course - the original areas was smaller. water, wind, and sand action easily can cause such dispersion. This view is supported by the discovery of shocked minerals (which only form during meteorite impacts on Earth) in the center of the Desert Glass region (there is a publication by German scientists on this topic, and I found it, too).

There is, however, a version of the impact hypothesis that seeks to make the glass in a superheated bow shock wave just before the impact; this is in particular the view of my colleague and friend Mark Boslough from Sandia National Labs in New Mexico, USA. The jury is still out on this idea. I think there might be a component, but I am wondering why, because such shock waves would be common, there are not more similar glass occurrences on Earth.

A few years ago Mark and I were both "actors" in, and scientific advisors for, a BBC documentary on this topic; I am enclosing a summary on the contents from the BBC magazine, which also includes some science questions, in basic terms. The program was also shown on National Geographic TV in the US and around the world.

I hope this helps with understanding the complex processes that we think led to the production of the glass.

By the way, if you want to look up some information on impact processes, and also some of my publication, take a look at my webpage, link just below.

Best regards,

Christian Koeberl

Professor of Impact Research and Planetary Geology

==========================

Prof. Dr. Christian Koeberl

Head, Department of Lithospheric Research

Center for Earth Sciences, University of Vienna

Althanstrasse 14

A-1090 Vienna, AUSTRIA

Tel.: +43-1-4277-53110

Fax: +43-1-4277-9534

e-mail: christian.koeberl@univie.ac.at

pers.web: www.univie.ac.at/geochemistry/koeberl/

dept. web: lithosphere.univie.ac.at

[questionmark]

ANSWER:

Wow, here we have an answer. There are some things open to debate/research but it is slightly different than Prof. Ds answer I would say.

[Qoais]

Trying to attach the attachment he sent, but I'm not having any luck.

[Qoais]

It is, but not for the reasons you think, The Chasma nuclear plant is using the water of the Indus as cooling agent... the Indus runs through near Mohenjo-Daro. Shortly after the start of Chasma all excavation and scientifically work has stopped there, except some conservation work by Pakistani teams.

You see, there is an explanation without Nibblers or prehistoric atomic explosions.

Yeah - nature's own.

[Qoais]

I read SOMEWHERE that nature in the past, has made her own nuclear power blaster, but again, I don't know where I read it. Am still not feeling so great, so am going to have a lie down and hopefully, the answer will come to me in my sleep!

[Harte]

.

Are you two on union rates here or something that you couldn't give the guy a link or two?

LOL.

Sorry q.

I just noticed I posted that in the wrong thread.

I was talking about the crater you linked to at wiki.

You seem to want to know about Mohenjo-Daro.

Here's a link to a post by a poster that is extremely knowledgeble on that and many other subjects.

Harte

[Qoais]

Nothing like being humble eh Harte?

[TheSearcher]

LOL.

Sorry q.

I just noticed I posted that in the wrong thread.

I was talking about the crater you linked to at wiki.

You seem to want to know about Mohenjo-Daro.

Here's a link to a post by a poster that is extremely knowledgeble on that and many other subjects.

Harte

Harte you're being a smart*ss, but interesting links though

[Harte]

Harte you're being a smart*ss

This is true.

So are my posts on the subject of Mohenjo-Daro.

As well as all my other posts - to the best of my abilities, anyway.

Harte

[Hanslune]

This is true.

So are my posts on the subject of Mohenjo-Daro.

As well as all my other posts - to the best of my abilities, anyway.

Harte

I don't know Harte but the older version of you seemed to be a bit more charismatic.

[The_Spartan]

you know...he gets cockier when hes getting older....