Atlantis

[stevemagegod]

The famous Nazca lines, made by Incas in the shape of geometrical patterns and animals is, for Von Däniken, a piece of evidence for the existence of alien astronauts. Von Däniken believes it would be impossible for the Incas to manufacture these huge shapes without advanced aerial and surveying technology. These lines may, in fact, be runways or signs made for returning astronaut "gods."

[The Puzzler]

IF Atlantis truly existed and IF Plato's story details are correct (those are two VERY big IF's!)then there is only one phenomenon which might be an explanation... crustal displacement. The theory goes (wild as it seems) that the earth's outer solid layer can "ride" on the earth's liquid core from time to time. The forces needed to do this must be enormous but other than that it would seem possible as no less a dude than Albert Einstein endorsed it as a possibility. I've seen a book which suggests that the magnetic north pole should be aligned with the true north pole and since its not, then a crustal displacement must have happened. Based on that the true North pole was once in Hudson Bay since the magnetic north has been moving from there towards our current North Pole for some time now. This shift was postulated as happening around 11,000 years ago (time of Atlatis' demise). I'll add my two cents in that at that time the ice sheets covered most of North America adding quite a bit of off-center weight. A scientist recently discovered an Iridium layer (indicating a comet or asteroid strike) in the time frame of about 11,000 years ago. He was looking for a reason why the N. American megafauna died off and wasn't buying the "hunted to extinction by humans" theory. An impact in the ice sheets might have provided that extra energy to get the shift going. Now as Jules99 pointed out all that's needed is for the water level to rise sufficiently, no continent need be subducted below another. I'll add a few more reasons why I like this theroy in the next post.

Einstein did indeed endorse this possibility and that in itself does say a huge amount to me....I am going to investigate this further and look forward to your next posts on it, glad you bought it up.

[The Puzzler]

The famous Nazca lines, made by Incas in the shape of geometrical patterns and animals is, for Von Däniken, a piece of evidence for the existence of alien astronauts. Von Däniken believes it would be impossible for the Incas to manufacture these huge shapes without advanced aerial and surveying technology. These lines may, in fact, be runways or signs made for returning astronaut "gods."

Steve, mate, I'm pretty sure we all know that here but your point is good because you have stated what I think is the case, Von Daniken BELIEVES this and also, not that I do, but many others are convinced there has been aliens here or are around... all over the world people have sworn blind they have seen aliens, so there is a real possibility that Von Daniken is actually correct, not that it appears he is but just saying...he actually could be if it boiled down to it. It is only crap for the people who don't believe aliens have been here and is anyone truly positive they have not??

[jmccr8]

Hello puzzler,i know this may be offbase somewhat,but fo many years i have wondered that just about every naval nation(us,ger,rus,britan,etc)has had submarines some for 60yrs,i am pretty sure that they have mapped most of what is available with technology and there is really not much revealed to the public openly in the media as i have noticed.it makes you wonder if they have released much to the scientific community.i know they have windows in them(ha ha)sand especialy concidering the technology today when they can use robots to extend their capabilities to go deeper.do you know of where i can go to find out more?jmccr8

[Abramelin]

The famous Nazca lines, made by Incas in the shape of geometrical patterns and animals is, for Von Däniken, a piece of evidence for the existence of alien astronauts. Von Däniken believes it would be impossible for the Incas to manufacture these huge shapes without advanced aerial and surveying technology. These lines may, in fact, be runways or signs made for returning astronaut "gods."

These lines were not made by the Incas.

Von Daniken can believe what he wants, but these lines and images can be constrcuted using simple tools, as has been demonstrated on the Nazca plain. not that long ago.

Then, the lines are far too delicate to have been used as 'runways'.

[questionmark]

These lines were not made by the Incas.

Von Daniken can believe what he wants, but these lines and images can be constrcuted using simple tools, as has been demonstrated on the Nazca plain. not that long ago.

Then, the lines are far too delicate to have been used as 'runways'.

If von Daniken seez it was the Incas he is further off his tree than I thought. There were no Incas until 1000 years after the Nazca culture had left the plain. It could be that they became the Incas at some later point(as we only know that they left the plain due to ecological changes), but by then Nazca was not more than a legend for them.

[lightly]

hi, i just want to say.. it bothers me when the long straight and WIDE Nazca lines are compared to airport runways.... for alien spacecraft. If intergalactic space 'ships' exist i seriously doubt they would have wheels or any need for 'runways' just because most flying craft we are familiar with do.

If there are space travelers i suspect they would also be time travelers, due to the Vastness of space. I can more easily imagine Inter dimensional visitors that space visitors.. just my view tho, i know people don't like to consider anything that can't be put in a box. .. a box with wheels is better yet

[Abramelin]

More about those who constructed the Nazca lines here:

Ancient Peru pyramid spotted by satellite

New remote-sensing technology reveals huge structure beneath surface

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27010998/

Lots of pictures of the dig at the site:

http://www.nazcamyst...ca_cahuachi.htm

Cahuachi is a major ceremonial center of the Nasca civilization in Peru, occupied from between AD 1-500. The site is located near the Nazca lines, and evidence clearly connects Cahuachi with the construction of the lines.

Priests [of Cahuachi] may have designed Nazca lines, expert says

http://www.azstarnet...eadlines/148052

EDITed to replace wrong link

Edited December 6, 2009 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

These lines were not made by the Incas.

Von Daniken can believe what he wants, but these lines and images can be constrcuted using simple tools, as has been demonstrated on the Nazca plain. not that long ago.

Then, the lines are far too delicate to have been used as 'runways'.

Quite right...I should have picked up on that but was more saying we all knew Daniken said those things...many apparently think the Nazca culture constructed them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazca_culture

but I remember reading that some expert said black slaves built them in the Tihuanaco culture.

Having seen then and been there Abramelin, what is your opinion on who created them?

[The Puzzler]

lol you must have read my mind, I will read the links....

[The Puzzler]

If von Daniken seez it was the Incas he is further off his tree than I thought. There were no Incas until 1000 years after the Nazca culture had left the plain. It could be that they became the Incas at some later point(as we only know that they left the plain due to ecological changes), but by then Nazca was not more than a legend for them.

Doesn't he say it was the aliens that made them? I have no idea really, I have not followed either Von Daniken or the Nazca lines that much.

Was anyone on those plains after the Nazca and before it was discovered do you know?

Edited to take out my negative comment on Daniken.

Edited December 6, 2009 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

hi, i just want to say.. it bothers me when the long straight and WIDE Nazca lines are compared to airport runways.... for alien spacecraft. If intergalactic space 'ships' exist i seriously doubt they would have wheels or any need for 'runways' just because most flying craft we are familiar with do.

If there are space travelers i suspect they would also be time travelers, due to the Vastness of space. I can more easily imagine Inter dimensional visitors that space visitors.. just my view tho, i know people don't like to consider anything that can't be put in a box. .. a box with wheels is better yet

Hi, I was sorta thinking that when Abramelin said they would be damaged by craft...I don't think they had wheels anyway if they were around.

[questionmark]

Doesn't he say it was the aliens that made them? I have no idea really, I have not followed either Von Daniken or the Nazca lines that much.

Was anyone on those plains after the Nazca and before it was discovered do you know?

Edited to take out my negative comment on Daniken.

There were isolated groups as long as the history of man in America goes. A big cultural settlement was not there after 200 AD.

[The Puzzler]

Quite a few theories out there, does anyone have an opinion on which one they go with, if any...

Toribio Mejia Xespe, a Peruvian doctor and anthropologist was the first scientist, in 1927, to show interest in what he called "great Incan ceremonial artifacts".

Michael Coe believes the Nazca Lines are sacred paths to walk by specific rites. The primary lines were an offering for elders, heaven, and mountain deities who gave them water for their fields.

Erich von Daniken suggested, in his 1968 book, Chariots of the Gods, that the lines were built by ancient astronauts as a landing strip. But the soft clay soil and layer of brown and black rocks in the Nazca desert would seem an unsuitable site for landing and were blown away by the power of rocket propulsion. The aliens left - never to return - leaving the people confused. Like in the modern cargo cults they tried to call the Gods back by drawing lines, figures and trapezes.

Robin Edgar beieved that the Nazca Figures were inspired by, and intended to be seen by, the (so-called) Eye of God that is manifested during total solar eclipses. An extraordinary series of solar eclipses coincided with the construction of the Nasca lines. Some Lines are aligned with the winter solstice, a less spectacular but more regular, death and rebirth of the Sun God.

The Code of Carl Munck - The Ancient Geomatria of Numbers --The Nazca Line ground markings locate themselves on The Code Matrix system. Nazca Lines and Archaeocryptography The ancient sites around the world are very precisely positioned on a global coordinate system in relation to the position of the Great Pyramid at Giza. The positions of the sites are given in the geometry of their construction. A very ancient system of numbers was used in the system, which we will call Gematria. Gematrian numbers are found in ancient myths and religions, including the Bible. Gematrian numbers were used in systems of weights and measures by ancient peoples, including the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Persians, the Babylonians and the Romans. The Code system uses mathematical constants, such as pi and the radian. The system also uses conventions that are still in use, such as the 360 degree circle, 60 minute degree, 60 second minute, the base-ten numbering system, the 12-inch foot, and the 5280-foot mile.

The ancient Mayans used Gematrian numbers in their very accurate timekeeping.

Maria Reiche was a German mathematician and archaeologist who was famous for researching the Nazca Lines. She believed the lines were an Astronomical Calendar indicating the direction of the rising of important stars and planetary events like sun solstices. Formations like the spider and the monkey could show star constellations like Orion and Ursa Mayor. The problem with all astronomical theories is the unknowing of the age. The direction of stars changes within centuries, explained by the precession of the equinoxes.

Reiche led a determined effort to discredit theories of extraterrestrial visitors. She argued that the Nazca Indians constructed the Lines some time between 300 BC and AD 800. In support of this possibility, some scientists have put forward ingenious ideas on how the geoglyphs could theoretically have been designed from the ground. The more important evidence, however, is that which attempts to link the Lines definitively to the Nazcan culture. Here, neither of the two key pieces of evidence survive close scrutiny.

The first piece of evidence is a series of radiocarbon dates, based on ceramic and wood remains which were left at the Lines by the Nazca people. It is claimed that this proves that the Nazcans constructed the Lines. On the contrary, the dating of these materials tells us only that the Nazcans lived in the area of the Nazca Lines. Since the Lines themselves cannot be radiocarbon dated, the possibility remains that they already existed when the Nazcan culture emerged. The second piece of evidence is the alleged resemblance of the Nazca geoglyphs to certain features found on Nazca pottery. This is an important issue because it potentially offers proof that the Nazcans had either designed the images or at least viewed them from the air. Maria Reiche died in 1998 at the age of 95. She is buried in the arid valley she loved so well.

Professor Gerald Hawkins and his group went to Nazca to prove the astronomical Theory of Maria Reiche but was unsuccessful. In 1968, a study by the National Geographic Society determined that, while some of the Nazca lines did point to the positions of the Sun, Moon and certain stars two thousand years ago, it was no more than could be expected by mere chance. In 1973, Dr Gerald Hawkins studied 186 lines with a computer program and found that only 20 per cent had any astronomical orientation - again no more than by pure chance.

Simone Waisbard stated that the drawing of Nazca are a giant astronomical calendar. Further the Nazca-line-system was used to measure the precipitation value. Figures, especially seabirds, have a connection to the meteorological prophecy system of the Nazca-Culture. Her ideas for the trapezoid formations: places for holy animals before sacrifice them, or field claims connected with filter galleries, observatories or places for ritual ceremonies of the different clans.

Alan F. Alford concluded that the Nazca-Lines was made by Negroid Slaves of the Tihuanaco Culture. After a revolution the Negroid population destroyed some figure, this is the explanation for overdrawn zigzag-formations. Later this people went in northern direction and founded Chavin and the Olmec culture.

Robert Bast linked the lines to the Flood Stories in his book A Memory of the Deluge. The animal, plant and human-shaped figures are lying together on the ground as a memorial place of the big flood.

Gilbert de Jong wrote A Nazcan Zodiac. He traveled to Nazca and measured the GGF by GPS. He obtained a length of the square side of about 54,7 Meter. In the formation he recognized a Zodiac.

Markus Reindel's Dowsing Theory says that the Nazca Figures are markers for a subterranean waterflow. Trapezoides show the broadness of the waterstream, zigzaglines show where they end, lines show into direction of the puquitos. He explain the nature of the figures by rod-dowsing (to find the subterranean water) and shamanstic flights (to overview the figures)

http://www.crystalinks.com/nazca.html

[The Puzzler]

There were isolated groups as long as the history of man in America goes. A big cultural settlement was not there after 200 AD.

Thanks for that.

[Abramelin]

Puzzler, Google "Johan Reinhard".

He was there when natives living in Chile constructed those lines in front of his eyes.

They did, performing a fertility/water rite, and worshipping the mountain gods. Well, that's what they told him.

Admitted, from what I saw (photos) the pictographs didn't look as advanced as those found on the Nazca plain.

EDIT:

<LI>Reinhard, Johan (1996) (6th ed.) The Nazca Lines: A New Perspective on their Origin and Meaning. Lima: Los Pinos. ISBN 84-89291-17-9

Edited December 6, 2009 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Even older lines and geoglyphs, in Paracas, Peru:

http://www.theepocht...5-24/29015.html

Mr. Isla said: “The principal idea is that together the three figures represent the reproduction of the human species, the continuity of life.” “According to results obtained from our studies of the Nazca geoglyphs, we can suggest that the Paracas geoglyphs were made also in the context of a religious culture related to water. The Palpa and Nazca valleys are in the middle of one of the most arid deserts of the world, where the surface water is a vital resource to develop life,” said Mr. Isla.

.

Edited December 6, 2009 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Even older lines and geoglyphs, in Paracas, Peru:

http://www.theepocht...5-24/29015.html

About those deserts soverthere...

I remember I made a trip by train to Arequipa in the south of Peru. It was a a very long trip, like 10 hours, and I was sick as a dog (in my mind there was this thought that at some point I would need to ask the help of some local shaman, omg). In the early morning the train stopped in the middle of te Atacama desert, and I asked one of the guys I travelled with what was going on. Being glued to his camera, he said he would check, and take a couple of shots. From where I sat I could see officials and soldiers (who were always present on these trains to protect the tourists; you even had to c*** with an armed soldier waiting in front of the door of the toilet).

After half an hour or so the guy with the camera came back, his face white as chalk: the train had stopped because they had seen human remains near the track, parts of limbs and arms. There was a problem, however: they did not know if it was murder or suicide..... or whether it happened recently or a thousand years ago. The remains of someone who had died a few months ago in that desert could hardly be distinguished from someone who had died there many hundreds of years ago; the almost perfect mummification process would make both look as dating from the same age, and specialists were needed to find out when the one who's remains were found actually died.

Yes, I think a water cult as explanation for those lines and geoglyphs is not that far off.

[Harte]

This supposedly wacky theory seems to explain a few anomolies such as:

Why are the ice sheets of the last ice age predominantly on North America (the farthest ice sheets in Siberia are maybe 700 miles closer to the North Pole)?

The theory isn't "supposedly wacky," the theory is insanely wacky.

The energy involved in displacing the crust would melt the crust.

Why was a mammoth found in Siberia frozen with springtime flowers/grasses still in its mouth?

No such mammoth has ever been found.

I believe if you actually spend a moment or two trying to verify this, you'll find that the vegetation ingested was typical tundra flora.

Harte

[stevemagegod]

It sounds like The Puzzler is talking about Ley Lines. I believe that Ley Lines are points of power that ancient man used to travel. Some anicent astrounaut theorys regard ley lines as points of power used to help them power their ships. Which if you put some of the most famous sites on a Map you can draw a line and they will start to form a grid like pattern. You could try mapping out all the ancient structures in the United Kingdom and you will start to get a Grid Like structure.

[stevemagegod]

Problem is, these pyramid/grid scenarios kept coming! Egypt's El Kula Pyramid (at 36), its Bent Pyramid of Seneferu (180), the Druid Mound in Massachusetts (180), the earthen ideogram ("Fort") at Newark Ohio (2160), the Temple of the Atlantes at Tula in Mexico (2880), Giza's Sphinx (5400), Georgia's Kolomoki Mound (7200), Ohio's Seip Mound (8640), Mississipi's Emerald Mound and the Red Pyramid of Seneferu at Dahshur (10,800), the ideogram at Franklin Ohio (16,200), the Great Triangle drawn on the Plains of Nazca in Peru (17,280), Germany's Go-Low Earthcircle near Bonn (27,000), the "EYE" on the mile-long "FACE" at Poverty Point, Louisiana (32,400), the Oregon Vortex (48,600), MANOS, another drawing on Nazca's Plains (64,800), North Bimini's Shark Mound and the Pyramid of the Magicians at Uxmal (129,600) - ALL OF WHICH ARE DIVISIBLE BY 360!

[Ikki]

Problem is, these pyramid/grid scenarios kept coming! Egypt's El Kula Pyramid (at 36), its Bent Pyramid of Seneferu (180), the Druid Mound in Massachusetts (180), the earthen ideogram ("Fort") at Newark Ohio (2160), the Temple of the Atlantes at Tula in Mexico (2880), Giza's Sphinx (5400), Georgia's Kolomoki Mound (7200), Ohio's Seip Mound (8640), Mississipi's Emerald Mound and the Red Pyramid of Seneferu at Dahshur (10,800), the ideogram at Franklin Ohio (16,200), the Great Triangle drawn on the Plains of Nazca in Peru (17,280), Germany's Go-Low Earthcircle near Bonn (27,000), the "EYE" on the mile-long "FACE" at Poverty Point, Louisiana (32,400), the Oregon Vortex (48,600), MANOS, another drawing on Nazca's Plains (64,800), North Bimini's Shark Mound and the Pyramid of the Magicians at Uxmal (129,600) - ALL OF WHICH ARE DIVISIBLE BY 360!

Um, what do these numbers mean? Because, y'know, I too can randomly assign a preconceived number system to things and claim it has significance.

My lamp is 4. My mousepad is 8. My sketch block is 15. My pen is 16. My TV is 23. My radiator is 42.

Oh look it's the LOST numbers! ANCIENT CONSPIRACY.

[stevemagegod]

All of the points that i covered here are on Ley Lines. These points also form on the Earth Energy Grid possible made by Atlantis.

[TheSearcher]

All of the points that i covered here are on Ley Lines. These points also form on the Earth Energy Grid possible made by Atlantis.

In English there are words for such things, it's called pure and utter b o l l o c k s.

[stevemagegod]

The science of decoding these monuments is called archaeocryptography. For latitude, ancient monuments were referenced to the same (modern) equator. For longitude, these monuments were referenced to a former Giza, Egypt Prime Meridian - discovered by Munck - that ran from pole to pole across the Great Pyramid.