Atlantis

[docyabut2]

Sorry Harte that does `nt make sense, a country is not going to renamed a city until they conquered it.

[whitegandalf]

So you wish to play "Let's pretend"? Okay, now I know not to take you seriously. Thanks.

cormac

I have never taken you seriously anyway. U have no arguments either, only states that a 10 000 year old story must be exactly as it says, that nothing has been lost. For then after dismissing it as totaly unlikely. Is it so hard to belive that old stories can be partly correct, in the search for thecorrect location?

Edited April 14, 2013 by whitegandalf

[Harte]

Sorry Harte that does `nt make sense, a country is not going to renamed a city until they conquered it.

Which, I suppose, is why we in the English-speaking crowd refer to Germany as "Germany" and not Deutschland?

In Spanish, it's Alemania.

The above prove that Spain, Mexico, and most of South America, are conquerors of Gemany, I suppose.

Harte

[cormac mac airt]

I have never taken you seriously anyway. U have no arguments either, only states that a 10 000 year old story must be exactly as it says, that nothing has been lost. For then after dismissing it as totaly unlikely. Is it so hard to belive that old stories can be partly correct, in the search for thecorrect location?

There is no 10,000 year old story. It's a 2300 +/- year old story written by Plato.

cormac

[whitegandalf]

There is no 10,000 year old story. It's a 2300 +/- year old story written by Plato.

cormac

Thats your opinion. Me an many others disagree. If the story is true or partly true it is a 11 000year old story, written down 2300 years ago

[Harte]

Thats your opinion. Me an many others disagree. If the story is true or partly true it is a 11 000year old story, written down 2300 years ago

With not a whit of evidence that the story existed prior to circa 2350 years ago.

Harte

[whitegandalf]

With not a whit of evidence that the story existed prior to circa 2350 years ago.

Harte

Not a whit of evidence.. Funny man:)

What we discussed was the level of acuracy you can expect from a second hand orally told from 11 000 year ago.

I know that you and others here have an agenda, at that is not to help truth seekers find the truth, or to find the truth for yourself. Rather to sabotage and destroy every constructive debate and exchange of information on any subject. U dont fool me;)

Edited April 14, 2013 by whitegandalf

[Abramelin]

Thats your opinion. Me an many others disagree. If the story is true or partly true it is a 11 000year old story, written down 2300 years ago

You have any proof of that claim?

[whitegandalf]

You have any proof of that claim?

Plato states it himself, pretty good proof/indication in my eyes. It should at least not be ruled out. The time period is a time in our human coastal history we know very little about, which leaves much yet to be discovered. But this takes a long time and is ekspensive as all the evidence lies underwater.

The point is that stories can change over time and at least over 11000 years (if his own statements on that matter is correct) small words and translations can change the meaning of text quite drastically.

To look for a place that 100 percent is identical to platons story of atlantis is folish. What is even more folish is to totally dismiss the the whole atlantis story or an atlantis like civilisation, because we dont have hard evidence which 100 percent match all of platons atlantis story.

Edited April 14, 2013 by whitegandalf

[Abramelin]

Plato states it himself, pretty good proof/indication in my eyes. It should at least not be ruled out. The time period is a time in our human history we know very little about, which leaves much yet to be discovered. But this takes a long time and is ekspensive as all the evidence lies underwater.

The point is that stories can change over time and at least over 11000 years (if his own statements on that matter is correct) small words and translations can change the meaning of text quite drastically.

To look for a place that 100 percent is identical to platons story of atlantis is folish. What is even more folish is to totally dismiss the the atlantis story, because we dont have hard evidence which 100 percent match all of platons atlantis story. That can change quite fast. As history shows.

Stories can change a lot over a long period of time, and thus also the dates mentioned in these stories.

So even if Plato didn't make it all up, then still that date of 9600 BCE may be a bit of an exaggeration.

[SHaYap]

I believe its those silly old ancient Egyptian priests that tried to impress Solon with that one ... one amphora of Cypriot spice wine too many ?

Solon's Atlantis Code: The Atlantis Motherland book presents a dramatic new perspective of this age old mystery which is recorded in The Dialogues of Plato in his works entitled Critias and Timaeus.

The Atlantis Motherland book deciphers a secret code to an intricate puzzle, that was designed by the Egyptians and perpetuated by Solon, to conceal the true location of Atlantis, while preserving the history of the early ancestors of both the Egyptians and the Greeks.

The entire history of Atlantis might have lost except for a meeting that occurred in Egypt, in the early 6th century BC, between the charismatic Greek statesman, Solon, and an aged Egyptian priest.

linkage

PLATO, DIALOGUES, SOLON, THERA, SANTORINI

Some thoughts on Plato's Dialogues, Solon,

Thera and the Explosion of Santorini ca. 1628 B.C.

somewhat of An idiot's guide to the topic link

[whitegandalf]

Stories can change a lot over a long period of time, and thus also the dates mentioned in these stories.

So even if Plato didn't make it all up, then still that date of 9600 BCE may be a bit of an exaggeration.

I totally agree, it might be the right date, but then again it might be the wrong date. But from the other "weak" evidences i belive it to be in the right neighbourhood. I belive, i do not know, and i do not have any hard evidence that it was. The point is that stories from long ago might have inacuracies. All we can do for now is to speculate and develop theories and keep looking. No one know for sure, yet. Or else we would all agree, if hard evidence for or against existed.

To dismiss an unknown atlantis like civilisation for sure yet is foolish, and not very belivable.

Edited April 14, 2013 by whitegandalf

[docyabut2]

I totally agree, it might be the right date, but then again it might be the wrong date. But from the other "weak" evidences i belive it to be in the right neighbourhood. I belive, i do not know, and i do not have any hard evidence that it was. The point is that stories from long ago might have inacuracies. All we can do for now is to speculate and develop theories and keep looking. No one know for sure, yet. Or else we would all agree, if hard evidence for or against existed.

To dismiss an unknown atlantis like civilisation for sure yet is foolish, and not very belivable.

If Atlantis did sink 11,500 years ago, someone had to be there to do all the measuring of the land given in the tale before it sank right? Measuring systems did`nt come into play until about what 4,000 years ago? I agree there is much exaggeration in the tale.

[cormac mac airt]

Thats your opinion. Me an many others disagree. If the story is true or partly true it is a 11 000year old story, written down 2300 years ago

In Ancient Egypts entire 3000+ year length of existance there's never been anything found remotely supporting the Atlantis tale, so that leaves you with nothing more than Plato's tale. You're working with an empty plate.

cormac

[Proclus]

In Ancient Egypts entire 3000+ year length of existance there's never been anything found remotely supporting the Atlantis tale, so that leaves you with nothing more than Plato's tale. You're working with an empty plate.

cormac

As I can see, cormac is still promoting his fairy tales - he does not tell you that the ancient Greeks really believed Egypt to be 10000 years old, so that Plato's dating is unreasonable only from a modern point of view - from an ancient Greek point of view it was possible, and thus we can say: If we today know that Egypt is not older than 3000 BC then we can conclude that Plato meant a date after 3000 BC. But I lost my hope that cormac ever will realize this.

Other topic:

Atlantis download center was re-arranged and enhanced by many papers:

Download academic articles for free:

Atlantis-Scout: Download-Center

Enjoy!

_

[Abramelin]

As I can see, cormac is still promoting his fairy tales - he does not tell you that the ancient Greeks really believed Egypt to be 10000 years old, so that Plato's dating is unreasonable only from a modern point of view - from an ancient Greek point of view it was possible, and thus we can say: If we today know that Egypt is not older than 3000 BC then we can conclude that Plato meant a date after 3000 BC. But I lost my hope that cormac ever will realize this.

Other topic:

Atlantis download center was re-arranged and enhanced by many papers:

Download academic articles for free:

Atlantis-Scout: Download-Center

Enjoy!

_

Which one of the many links on that site you linked to tells us that the Greeks believed that Egypt was 10,000 years old?

Please give us a quote and a link.

.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Abramelin

[Proclus]

Which one of the many links on that site you linked to tells us that the Greeks believed that Egypt was 10,000 years old?

Please give us a quote and a link.

.

The most simple things are rarely expressed explicitly, but you can try this one here:

http://www.atlantis-scout.de/Franke_Herodotus_Atlantis2008_Proceedings.pdf

Herodotus, Plato himself in an other dialogue (the Laws), and other Greek writers - they all assumed without questioning that Egypt had an age of 10000 years and more. Everybody familiar with ancient texts knows this, it's not a secret. Of course, this assumption of the ancient Greeks is wrong! But they believed it, and so we have to face the fact that the 9000 years of Plato's story are not meant as "fabled" past, but as a real date within the history of Egpyt.

To find this expressed explicitly, I suggest to look into egyptological works, not in works on Plato's Atlantis, because it is painful for skeptical authors to admit this in the context of Plato's Atlantis.

By correcting the age of Egypt we have to correct the date for Atlanits, too. We only do not now, how exactly. Prof. Görgemanns e.g. (not available in English, not in my download center, it's not free) expressed the thought that Plato meant a date near to 10000, so in analogy near to 3000 BC.

Sounds reasonable.

_

[Panos89]

Greek believed that "those days" Egyptians (after 3,000 BC) are just offspring of an old civilization exist in the old Egypt. The modern Egypt (after 3,000 BC) for ancient Greeks was a new land... created from the ( i don't know the exact word in English) land, dust, mud that the Nile river transferred to the sea during his "trip" from the mounts and lakes of Africa to Mediterranean sea. So new Egypt (after 3,000 BC) for the ancient Greeks was the civilization build around the Nile river (as the old one) but with its "heart" (its center of Civilization) on the Delta of the Nile river.

Sources inc soon.

[DieChecker]

The north sea should not be ruled out yet as a serious candidate. Their seafearing skills and technology and trading routes was surpassed by none. Who knows what really happened 12000 years ago. As every single city and village of this culture lies underwater today and not discovered yet, it is foolish to rule it out.

Maybe I missed it, but where is it written that this 12,000 year old North Sea warrior race had superior seafaring skills and ships?? Do any of these ships exist? That at least would be a start.

Maybe you are referring to the Scandinavians of the second millennium? The Vikings and such?

I like your idea on the walrus ivory. That is good thinking outside the box.

If you look at this map you will see that it is entirely plausable that a north sea sea based culture could invade north africa, spain, italy, greece++

I thought a North Sea culture did invade Europe and the Mediterranean. They were called the Normans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans

[Mario Dantas]

The Naked Ape (Desmond Morris), 1968

https://plus.google....393627589702177

Edited April 15, 2013 by Mario Dantas

[Harte]

Not a whit of evidence.. Funny man:)

What we discussed was the level of acuracy you can expect from a second hand orally told from 11 000 year ago.

So, unlike the oral tradition of Troy, this oral tradition of Atlantis left not a scrap in the mythos of the Greeks?

After all, hundreds of scenes from the Iliad and the Odyssey are on display on thousands of artifacts from Ancient Greece.

The Greek oral tradition concerning Troy, was public, while the Greekk oral tradition you claim for Atlantis was kept secret?

Like I said, if you ever read Critias, you'll find that Atlantis was not part of any Greek tradition at all, oral or otherwise. In the fable, written by Plato, Solon was told the story by Egyptians.

Not a single solitary sign of any oral tradition for Atlantis appears in any Egyptian mythos either.

I know that you and others here have an agenda, at that is not to help truth seekers find the truth, or to find the truth for yourself. Rather to sabotage and destroy every constructive debate and exchange of information on any subject. U dont fool me;)

You don't even "know" the subject matter that your posts concern. How is it then that you "know" I have an agenda " to sabotage and destroy every constructive debate and exchange of information on any subject?"

Where have you enganged in any "constructive debate" here concerning Atlantis? You come across a few folks that know a great deal about the matter, and when they point out the error of your ignorance, why, they must be out to quash debate?

And where have you offered any information exchange concerning Atlantis? You make a wild claim about Scandinavia, because islands sank?

That's not information. That's twaddle.

Harte

[DieChecker]

Not a single solitary sign of any oral tradition for Atlantis appears in any Egyptian mythos either.

That is because the information was locked into a stasis box located under the paws of the Sphinx. Back when the Priests still knew how to access the Chamber of Secrets and read the CDs kept there.

It really bothers me that some people actually believe that.....

Edited April 15, 2013 by DieChecker

[Harsh86_Patel]

That is because the information was locked into a stasis box located under the paws of the Sphinx. Back when the Priests still knew how to access the Chamber of Secrets and read the CDs kept there.

It really bothers me that some people actually believe that.....

Or maybe the Greeks were more open to assertions of other peoples as well.

[The_Spartan]

Or maybe the Greeks were more open to assertions of other peoples as well.

Φοβούμαι τους Έλληνες, που φέρει δώρο. Φοβάμαι επίσης τα ηλίθια ιστορίες από τον Ηρόδοτο!

[SHaYap]

Finally ... that's all Greek to me ...