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lookingfortruth

Your God Doesn't Care About You

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MARAB0D

Is that all you read? Because right after that we get this:

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that would have answered most if not all of the questions you asked me.

And I never said we were the same religion, I said we were similar. There is a difference.

Symbol of Faith is not a private opinion of one of the priests, but a DOCUMENT, or a commonly known and accepted oral tradition. Symbol of Faith allows to distinguish between the religions, to understand their key differences. It also allows to determine a person belonging to some religion - for being a follower of it, one must share its Symbol of Faith. Thus it is easy to distinguish anyone from a Muslim, as Islamic Symbol of Faith states that Muhammad is a Prophet of a Superficial Deity, Allah.

I am asking HOW to distinguish a Mormon? Your pastor refers to the traditional scriptures of OTHER religions, stating the Mormons use them. But the other users of them have their own Theological interpretations. These are extra-scriptural! They are based on the Symbol of Faith of Christianity, the Nicene Creed - if the Creed itself is denied, they alone make no sense, because each word in them has a meaning based on the Creed. You may say absolutely anything, for instance that the Mormons "read" Martin Luther. But the latter was writing as a Christian and for the Christians, who were sharing with him the same Creed. Same refers to Thomas Aquinas, St Francis of Assisi, and to all the rest Christian Theologians. One simply cannot take any word from them out of context and use in another religious format, as all their words have only sense within the framework set by Nicene Creed. They do not talk about some abstract generic Christ, they talk only about Christian Christ as per Nicene Creed. There is no Christ for them outside of the Creed, they were not writing for the other religions!

The eclectic teaching, your pastor presents is based on a play of words, no more, and is designed for people with lowest possible level of Theological and historical education. If LDS denies the Nicene Creed, then it cannot refer to the part of the scripture, created on the basis of Nicene Creed, and as we know the canonical text of New Testament was produced by the same Theologians which developed the Creed and simultaneously with it. Creed says what to believe in, and NT illustrates this essential set of beliefs.

Cross in Christianity is not a symbol of "dead Christ", "dead dog" or anyone else dead - it is a symbol of Christ, suffering for the sins of the others, because the main ideological load of Christianity is of moral nature. Christianity ESTABLISHED the very image of Christ and set him as a Son of God, thus making the example of how the Christians must live their lives - this religion did not bother following the really existing Christ, who most likely was just a Jewish vagrant. Physical "biography" of Christ was never interesting the Bishops, as they were perceiving him as a Symbol, chosen for the people to follow it, and this is the reason why they were easily editing the earlier texts. Christianity insists that Christ was crucified BECAUSE they need this form of execution to have happened for their ideological purposes.They ignore even the fact that New Testament itself says he was first killed and then hanged on a tree as per Jewish Law (Deuteronomy) - you may search as there was a discussion of this not that long ago in one of the threads here. Because Christianity believes in the Christ of Nicene Creed, not just in some young Jewish Philosopher, prophet Isa.

The "Christ" your pastor mentions is not the Christ of the Creed, it is some other person or deity with the same name - and LDS seems to have no own definition for this Christ character, and leans on the definition which it itself has denied in the first place. Means, you personally are trying to promote a fake, calling it "God". Quod erad demonstrandum.

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Furnacewhelp

Symbol of Faith is not a private opinion of one of the priests, but a DOCUMENT, or a commonly known and accepted oral tradition. Symbol of Faith allows to distinguish between the religions, to understand their key differences. It also allows to determine a person belonging to some religion - for being a follower of it, one must share its Symbol of Faith. Thus it is easy to distinguish anyone from a Muslim, as Islamic Symbol of Faith states that Muhammad is a Prophet of a Superficial Deity, Allah.

I am asking HOW to distinguish a Mormon? Your pastor refers to the traditional scriptures of OTHER religions, stating the Mormons use them. But the other users of them have their own Theological interpretations. These are extra-scriptural! They are based on the Symbol of Faith of Christianity, the Nicene Creed - if the Creed itself is denied, they alone make no sense, because each word in them has a meaning based on the Creed. You may say absolutely anything, for instance that the Mormons "read" Martin Luther. But the latter was writing as a Christian and for the Christians, who were sharing with him the same Creed. Same refers to Thomas Aquinas, St Francis of Assisi, and to all the rest Christian Theologians. One simply cannot take any word from them out of context and use in another religious format, as all their words have only sense within the framework set by Nicene Creed. They do not talk about some abstract generic Christ, they talk only about Christian Christ as per Nicene Creed. There is no Christ for them outside of the Creed, they were not writing for the other religions!

The eclectic teaching, your pastor presents is based on a play of words, no more, and is designed for people with lowest possible level of Theological and historical education. If LDS denies the Nicene Creed, then it cannot refer to the part of the scripture, created on the basis of Nicene Creed, and as we know the canonical text of New Testament was produced by the same Theologians which developed the Creed and simultaneously with it. Creed says what to believe in, and NT illustrates this essential set of beliefs.

How do you distinguish a Mormon? What is it the Mormons believe that no other religion does? I believe the article answered that when it said that we believe in the BOOK OF MORMON. In fact I believe you answered that when you mentioned that you tried reading the Book of Mormon when I said I was LDS. I didn't mention the book and you were able to draw a line between it and my religion. But when President Gordon B. Hinckley (he's not a simple pastor, he was the president of our entire religion) said, "I replied that the lives of our people must become the most meaningful expression of our faith and, in fact, therefore, the symbol of our worship." It's true. The Catholics have the crucifix, the Jews have the Star of David, but we don't use symbols like that. We define ourselves by the way we live our lives. If you want an actual physical something that you can use to label us with then the Book of Mormon is the closest thing you will get.

Cross in Christianity is not a symbol of "dead Christ", "dead dog" or anyone else dead - it is a symbol of Christ, suffering for the sins of the others, because the main ideological load of Christianity is of moral nature. Christianity ESTABLISHED the very image of Christ and set him as a Son of God, thus making the example of how the Christians must live their lives - this religion did not bother following the really existing Christ, who most likely was just a Jewish vagrant. Physical "biography" of Christ was never interesting the Bishops, as they were perceiving him as a Symbol, chosen for the people to follow it, and this is the reason why they were easily editing the earlier texts. Christianity insists that Christ was crucified BECAUSE they need this form of execution to have happened for their ideological purposes.They ignore even the fact that New Testament itself says he was first killed and then hanged on a tree as per Jewish Law (Deuteronomy) - you may search as there was a discussion of this not that long ago in one of the threads here. Because Christianity believes in the Christ of Nicene Creed, not just in some young Jewish Philosopher, prophet Isa.

The "Christ" your pastor mentions is not the Christ of the Creed, it is some other person or deity with the same name - and LDS seems to have no own definition for this Christ character, and leans on the definition which it itself has denied in the first place. Means, you personally are trying to promote a fake, calling it "God". Quod erad demonstrandum.

Go into any Catholic church and almost any Catholic home and you will see things like these:

crucifix.jpg

crucifix-full.jpg

Are you telling me that those aren't symbols of a "dead" Christ? The cross itself is called a "Crucifix" stating it's connection to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The entire symbol revolves around his death.

Your statement about Deuteronomy is wrong as it is part of the "Old" Testament and is an account of Moses. Jesus wasn't even born in the time of Moses. The Old Testament is actually part of the Jewish Torah. Later on the Christians added the New Testament to detail the life of Jesus Christ. The LDS have taken this one step further and added the Book of Mormon as an account of Jesus coming to the Americas and preaching there after his resurrection. Each religion is adding on to the one before but those of the former religion don't accept the additions. Jews don't accept the New Testament but they accept the Old Testament. Neither Jews nor other Christians accept the Book of Mormon but Mormons accept both the Old and New Testaments. There is no need for anyone to redefine the old beliefs when an addition is made. The Christ that Mormons believe in is the same guy that the Catholics believe in (although what they believe he was differs). The Mormons believe in the same God as other Christians who believe in the same God as the Jews.

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MARAB0D

How do you distinguish a Mormon? What is it the Mormons believe that no other religion does? I believe the article answered that when it said that we believe in the BOOK OF MORMON. In fact I believe you answered that when you mentioned that you tried reading the Book of Mormon when I said I was LDS. I didn't mention the book and you were able to draw a line between it and my religion. But when President Gordon B. Hinckley (he's not a simple pastor, he was the president of our entire religion) said, "I replied that the lives of our people must become the most meaningful expression of our faith and, in fact, therefore, the symbol of our worship." It's true. The Catholics have the crucifix, the Jews have the Star of David, but we don't use symbols like that. We define ourselves by the way we live our lives. If you want an actual physical something that you can use to label us with then the Book of Mormon is the closest thing you will get.

Are you suggesting me to read book of mormon in order to understand whom I am currently talking to??? Do not you want to provide the example first (it was you who started this senseless exchange!) and read Das Kapital and "Materialism and Empirio-criticism" in order to understand whom YOU are talking with?

By now I know one thing from you - that a Mormon cannot clearly explain what his religion believes in, as it goes in circles for the third day already. Meanwhile it was enough for you to say 3 days ago that the Mormons do not have any Symbol of Faith and not waste my time.

Go into any Catholic church and almost any Catholic home and you will see things like these:

crucifix.jpg

crucifix-full.jpg

Are you telling me that those aren't symbols of a "dead" Christ? The cross itself is called a "Crucifix" stating it's connection to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The entire symbol revolves around his death.

Your statement about Deuteronomy is wrong as it is part of the "Old" Testament and is an account of Moses. Jesus wasn't even born in the time of Moses. The Old Testament is actually part of the Jewish Torah. Later on the Christians added the New Testament to detail the life of Jesus Christ. The LDS have taken this one step further and added the Book of Mormon as an account of Jesus coming to the Americas and preaching there after his resurrection. Each religion is adding on to the one before but those of the former religion don't accept the additions. Jews don't accept the New Testament but they accept the Old Testament. Neither Jews nor other Christians accept the Book of Mormon but Mormons accept both the Old and New Testaments. There is no need for anyone to redefine the old beliefs when an addition is made. The Christ that Mormons believe in is the same guy that the Catholics believe in (although what they believe he was differs). The Mormons believe in the same God as other Christians who believe in the same God as the Jews.

My advice to you would be not to go to any Catholic church, as the appearance of dead body obviously insults your God no less than expressed Atheism. Stay living on your farm and enjoy the pastures around. It would be a lifestyle of a dream, lacking all insults possible, if instead of making a clown here, you spend your time adding yet another book of details to how Jesus visited Americas - say, write about his trip on Titanic, or on a flying saucer, describe him converting Maya and Aztecs, building pyramids or breeding the mustangs. It is all in your hands, give it a go. So far personally for me this conversation has been finalised, as all is clear for me now and no more questions I need to ask. Good luck.

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Beckys_Mom

Religion shows you what to do with that belief. Different religions teach how to handle your belief in God in different ways.

So you need a book to show you how to follow god? you cant come up with your OWN personal ideas?? IF so WHY?

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ChloeB

Belief in God is one thing, religion is another. If you were to say, "I believe in God." that's good, but now what? As the atheists say, "What will belief get you?" Religion shows you what to do with that belief. Different religions teach how to handle your belief in God in different ways. I'm LDS because I choose to be. I choose to be LDS because what they teach that I should do with my belief in God matches what I would most want to do with it. If you want to be Catholic, be Catholic. If you want to be Jewish, be Jewish. If you want to believe in God but not want to be tied to any particular religion, hey, more power to you.

Absolutely, belief in God is totally different because when religions get hold of it - they must, in order their survival, set terms on it and in effect limit it in some way by including some and excluding others that are different in their beliefs. So when you ask, why people aren't finding God - my answer is religions are for the most part responsible because they've turned God into their own infomercial for marketing some prophet's beliefs and bottled it up for followers to drink instead of encouraging searching on your own to ensure the religions own survival, but at what cost? This has turned more people off God than anything else. Which prophet's version, do you follow? Who is right? Who knows these things so people are just fed up and have chunked the idea all together. Religions are never all-inclusive, they create divisions and stife between all. Don't be upset with people for that, give credit where credit is due.

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MARAB0D

Absolutely, belief in God is totally different because when religions get hold of it - they must, in order their survival, set terms on it and in effect limit it in some way by including some and excluding others that are different in their beliefs. So when you ask, why people aren't finding God - my answer is religions are for the most part responsible because they've turned God into their own infomercial for marketing some prophet's beliefs and bottled it up for followers to drink instead of encouraging searching on your own to ensure the religions own survival, but at what cost? This has turned more people off God than anything else. Which prophet's version, do you follow? Who is right? Who knows these things so people are just fed up and have chunked the idea all together. Religions are never all-inclusive, they create divisions and stife between all. Don't be upset with people for that, give credit where credit is due.

It all resembles a fight between two little girls, unable to agree how Ken and Barbie first got together... The puppets are the same (similar to God is the same) but each girl tells her own stories.

Edited by marabod

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ChloeB

It all resembles a fight between two little girls, unable to agree how Ken and Barbie first got together... The puppets are the same (similar to God is the same) but each girl tells her own stories.

LOL, true, you put that in the context of religion, they'd be smacking one another over the head with the dolls fighting over whose story is true.

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The Silver Thong

LOL, true, you put that in the context of religion, they'd be smacking one another over the head with the dolls fighting over whose story is true.

No they would find other little girls with dolls and push there beliefs on them recruiting numbers and once one side has more numbers they will suppress the other little girl. Hence numbers seem to mean one is right and one is not. All things being equal there both wrong but do they care? no.

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Beckys_Mom

LOL, true, you put that in the context of religion, they'd be smacking one another over the head with the dolls fighting over whose story is true.

LMAO too true Chloe...too truew00t.gif

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ChloeB

So you need a book to show you how to follow god? you cant come up with your OWN personal ideas?? IF so WHY?

I think that's what the prophets did, came up with their own personal ideas, but people started to believe that they weren't worthy of that on their own and had to follow someone else's example and taught finding their own way was wrong. God should be universal, not about all these nitpicky rules that sets some above others.

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Beckys_Mom

I think that's what the prophets did, came up with their own personal ideas, but people started to believe that they weren't worthy of that on their own and had to follow someone else's example and taught finding their own way was wrong. God should be universal, not about all these nitpicky rules that sets some above others.

I 100% agree here Chloe..........you hit the nail on the head..........no man has a given right to preach to anyone how to follow god IMO

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Furnacewhelp

So you need a book to show you how to follow god? you cant come up with your OWN personal ideas?? IF so WHY?

Absolutely, belief in God is totally different because when religions get hold of it - they must, in order their survival, set terms on it and in effect limit it in some way by including some and excluding others that are different in their beliefs. So when you ask, why people aren't finding God - my answer is religions are for the most part responsible because they've turned God into their own infomercial for marketing some prophet's beliefs and bottled it up for followers to drink instead of encouraging searching on your own to ensure the religions own survival, but at what cost? This has turned more people off God than anything else. Which prophet's version, do you follow? Who is right? Who knows these things so people are just fed up and have chunked the idea all together. Religions are never all-inclusive, they create divisions and stife between all. Don't be upset with people for that, give credit where credit is due.

I think that more people aren't turning to God because they are incapable of separating God from religion. You can believe in God without being involved in any religion. But each religion comes with it's own benefits. I chose to be LDS and because of that I have been granted the authority to bless and baptize people. In the Catholic church that authority is reserved for the priests. I could believe what the LDS believe without actually being LDS, but again, It's my choice.

But sadly, not everyone thinks the way I do. A lot of religious people believe that their religion is the only true religion. This is where the divisions and strife come in. They begin trying to convert anyone they can find who isn't a member of their religion. If you look back through history, almost every religion around today is based off of the beliefs of another religion that came before it. So it no longer becomes a matter of who's right and who's wrong since most likely both religions will share a common ancestor.

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MARAB0D

:lol:

Exactly what is this supposed to impart to us? Please don't post one line, or worse, one (or many) smiley only responses - that is garbage posting and UM has a policy against it. -Para

Sorry, Para - I just read about this authority to bless and baptize. Could not type after this for awhile :)

Edited by marabod
reminded poster of um policy

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Furnacewhelp

Are you suggesting me to read book of mormon in order to understand whom I am currently talking to??? Do not you want to provide the example first (it was you who started this senseless exchange!) and read Das Kapital and "Materialism and Empirio-criticism" in order to understand whom YOU are talking with?

By now I know one thing from you - that a Mormon cannot clearly explain what his religion believes in, as it goes in circles for the third day already. Meanwhile it was enough for you to say 3 days ago that the Mormons do not have any Symbol of Faith and not waste my time.

My advice to you would be not to go to any Catholic church, as the appearance of dead body obviously insults your God no less than expressed Atheism. Stay living on your farm and enjoy the pastures around. It would be a lifestyle of a dream, lacking all insults possible, if instead of making a clown here, you spend your time adding yet another book of details to how Jesus visited Americas - say, write about his trip on Titanic, or on a flying saucer, describe him converting Maya and Aztecs, building pyramids or breeding the mustangs. It is all in your hands, give it a go. So far personally for me this conversation has been finalised, as all is clear for me now and no more questions I need to ask. Good luck.

Oh well, I guess I shouldn't have expected you to understand. You said that you didn't believe in God. You said that you couldn't even imagine a world with God. And yet you were trying to pass yourself off as an authority on the subject and I fell for it. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to understand what I said. But you made this a lot more complicated than it had to be. You wanted complex answers because you believed that this is a complicated subject. My answers were simple. So simple that you couldn't understand them I guess. Oh well.

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ChloeB

I think that more people aren't turning to God because they are incapable of separating God from religion. You can believe in God without being involved in any religion. But each religion comes with it's own benefits. I chose to be LDS and because of that I have been granted the authority to bless and baptize people. In the Catholic church that authority is reserved for the priests. I could believe what the LDS believe without actually being LDS, but again, It's my choice.

But sadly, not everyone thinks the way I do. A lot of religious people believe that their religion is the only true religion. This is where the divisions and strife come in. They begin trying to convert anyone they can find who isn't a member of their religion. If you look back through history, almost every religion around today is based off of the beliefs of another religion that came before it. So it no longer becomes a matter of who's right and who's wrong since most likely both religions will share a common ancestor.

Well can you blame them? How can they follow the bible that speaks of false prophets and not eliminate everything else? I agree with you about the religions spinning off older ones. I like what you are saying here - that they are all okay, but how can you follow the bible and maintain that attitude?

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Beckys_Mom

I think that more people aren't turning to God because they are incapable of separating God from religion. You can believe in God without being involved in any religion. But each religion comes with it's own benefits. I chose to be LDS and because of that I have been granted the authority to bless and baptize people. In the Catholic church that authority is reserved for the priests. I could believe what the LDS believe without actually being LDS, but again, It's my choice.

I have followed god all my life...partly as a christian.......and now on my own way.I hold a personal faith in god.and I do not need a book to tell me how

In fact before man created a bible......many followed god without one....its not rocket science

thats all I am saying.......besides ever since I broke away from christianity...and followed god in my own way...things turned around for me and it was as if god begun to listen and answer more so

Way I see it.......god doesnt mind HOW you do it...as long as you do it...for no man has a given right to tell others how to follow god and they dont hold a right to speak on gods behalf...no one does...for god wants us to seek him for OURSELVES

just keep that in mind....not saying you should drop all LOL

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Furnacewhelp

Well can you blame them? How can they follow the bible that speaks of false prophets and not eliminate everything else? I agree with you about the religions spinning off older ones. I like what you are saying here - that they are all okay, but how can you follow the bible and maintain that attitude?

Personal interpretation. When the bible speaks of false prophets it's speaking about people who would try to lead others away from God. A lot of people don't understand that the God of their religion and the God of other religions is in fact the same God. People don't realize that their view of God is the same and it's their views on other things like the afterlife and how to worship God that are different.

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IamsSon

Personal interpretation. When the bible speaks of false prophets it's speaking about people who would try to lead others away from God. A lot of people don't understand that the God of their religion and the God of other religions is in fact the same God. People don't realize that their view of God is the same and it's their views on other things like the afterlife and how to worship God that are different.

This is simply another religious view. You cannot prove that the god of every religion is the same god. You may strongly believe that, but then someone who believes their god is the one true god also holds a strong belief of that.

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MARAB0D

This is simply another religious view. You cannot prove that the god of every religion is the same god. You may strongly believe that, but then someone who believes their god is the one true god also holds a strong belief of that.

To be honest I doubt that this view is religious. As Furnace explained, his religion lacks Theology, Symbol of Faith and definition of God, they worship to. They use the parts of these components, developed by another religions, but deny their Creeds. Nowhere in Christianity Theology talks about Christ migrating to Americas, as this suggests no ascension and derails his alleged divine status. So Jesus, they worship, is not the same Jesus as in Christianity, but someone else under the same name - thus leading people to this new Jesus well falls into the definition of fake prophet as was given above. This seems to be not a religion, but a pretend-to-be a religion.

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ChloeB

Personal interpretation. When the bible speaks of false prophets it's speaking about people who would try to lead others away from God. A lot of people don't understand that the God of their religion and the God of other religions is in fact the same God. People don't realize that their view of God is the same and it's their views on other things like the afterlife and how to worship God that are different.

Works for me; I'd just like everyone's gods to be friends.

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Beckys_Mom

. A lot of people don't understand that the God of their religion and the God of otrher religions is in fact the same God.

God fits in all religions / faiths...same one...fits all.................which is another reason why I chose not to pick a religion to follow god....for each religion tries to tell you their own way of following god...and call it the only REAL TRUE WAY...lol

I pick MY way...its best for me and only me

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