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New World Super-Power forming in Europe?


Karlis
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Yeh...could be but that is not this government's fault but has been that way since the 60s.

that doesn't make it 'not this government's fault'. it just means the blame belongs to every government.

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Even from this hemisphere it looks obvious, that EU countries are greatly unequal in their wealth, so the Union was designed on premise that stronger countries support the weaker countries, and these in exchange provide resources and workforce. As such UK must be a donor country, and thus it must share its wealth with the countries-recepients. Same refers to Holland, Germany, France... In fact if UK gets out, the remaining donors would feel additional pressure, and may consider quitting too!

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Even from this hemisphere it looks obvious, that EU countries are greatly unequal in their wealth, so the Union was designed on premise that stronger countries support the weaker countries, and these in exchange provide resources and workforce. As such UK must be a donor country, and thus it must share its wealth with the countries-recepients. Same refers to Holland, Germany, France... In fact if UK gets out, the remaining donors would feel additional pressure, and may consider quitting too!

I doubt that. The "donor" countries (except evidently Great Britain) know that they get back almost as much as they put in. The best example for that is Greece. Almost all "donated" infrastructure programs here have been built by companies from the "donor countries". No matter if the new Athens airport or the new telecommunications equipment for the telephone company or the modernization of the trains.

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Folks -- the posts on the last page or two seem to be going away from my question in the OP:

" ... it may be that we are possibly witnessing the formation of a new World Super-Power in Europe.
The ratification of the Lisbon Treaty on the third of November means -- in essence -- that the nations within the European Union soon will be subject to the Laws and Decrees of the EU, and will not have the right to challenge EU laws that conflict with their own National Laws. ..."
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Folks -- the posts on the last page or two seem to be going away from my question in the OP:

" ... it may be that we are possibly witnessing the formation of a new World Super-Power in Europe.
The ratification of the Lisbon Treaty on the third of November means -- in essence -- that the nations within the European Union soon will be subject to the Laws and Decrees of the EU, and will not have the right to challenge EU laws that conflict with their own National Laws. ..."

Well, we have always been subject to the laws of the EU except where an exemption has been negotiated. This does not mean that Brussels alone decides on the Laws, every member state has a say, it is down to the member states to agree or otherwise. The UK like every other state can agree or disagree to any law becoming national law.

Is the EU already a super-power? Yes it is both economically and militarily, but not yet politically.

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blackred, we have an abundance of coal.

the oil has nothing to do with us, it's completely privatised and we don't benefit in the slightest from it. that would take a revolution. but coal. there's still a shitload of untapped coal reserves, as far as i'm aware. not to mention biofuel plants, nuclear plants, wind farms (we have an abundance of that the further north you go.... unfortunately original.gif) and other alternative energy sources being investigated, built and created.

Corporation Tax

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Folks -- the posts on the last page or two seem to be going away from my question in the OP:

" ... it may be that we are possibly witnessing the formation of a new World Super-Power in Europe.
The ratification of the Lisbon Treaty on the third of November means -- in essence -- that the nations within the European Union soon will be subject to the Laws and Decrees of the EU, and will not have the right to challenge EU laws that conflict with their own National Laws. ..."

Please, do not be a control freak! The opinions were expressed, and you are witnessing the discussion of them. If you were expecting everyone saying "yes, how right is our Karlis" then keep in mind it is not EU here, it is internet! :)

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SO when can we start calling it the United States of Europe?

Don't do it folks!

The United States is way bigger than it should be. If it were two or three countries, people could just move to the country (liberal or conservative) of their choice. As it is we have a continuous soap opera in which 51% of the population rams it's views down the throats of the other 49%. Who's in charge varies from election to election, but the result is always not-so-great.

European countries are the natural size that countries should be. The USA, China, and the former USSR were/are modern experiments in gigantism.

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Don't do it folks!

The United States is way bigger than it should be. If it were two or three countries, people could just move to the country (liberal or conservative) of their choice. As it is we have a continuous soap opera in which 51% of the population rams it's views down the throats of the other 49%. Who's in charge varies from election to election, but the result is always not-so-great.

European countries are the natural size that countries should be. The USA, China, and the former USSR were/are modern experiments in gigantism.

Would be nice if possible...but we have to compete with two countries that are even bigger than the good ol' US of A. Russia and China. Russia is in fact so big that it spans two continents.

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what makes you think the EU would be an ally if it became a superpower? you forget that most of the countries in NATO have been bullied by the US foreign policy for decades. i would have thought they would be happy to be free of such a thing. free to make their own decisions in their own interests.

that last part above is completely idiotic and what i, and no doubt others, have come to expect from your blinded, ideological posting.

yeah that's right mate, keep the brown man down. just like your government has been doing for decades upon decades. people who think like you (backwards) are dangerous as hell.

it is far from ideological, perhaps you would correlate that.

yeah i am late but not about to let you rant. you are the blind one. what i said about south america is true and has nothing to do with the "brown" man as you so delicately put it. south america is getting hostile.

i can tell you are a big boy on the block hater. look, we are not perfect, when it comes to foreign policy who would have guessed that a country would react with its own best interests in mind? duh..... yeah free to do what they want, then they expect things from us over here. OH america! oh land of wealth and resources, help us against our more powerful neighbors....send us alliances, guns, aid, and influence. see where i am going? didnt see quite that way did you? other countries beg for our influence, and we give it at aprice. BUT>>>when there is a long time peace like in europe and america, countries feel like they dont need it, and they probably dont, until they find a reason to use it.

so spare me with your shortsightedness.

and people who think like you allow, hitlers to come to power. we all know what happened there.

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plenty. this isn't like in the US where there's an abundance of mexicans working for peanuts, doing jobs that no-one else would do. the minimum wage in this country is not to be laughed at. it's by far the best thing to come from the labour government.

and what do you mean "peanuts" and nobody else would do them? there are plenty of college kids who need jobs right now...minumum wage is designed to force you to either do better or try harder. you should not be able to live well on minimum wage--thats communism.....maybe thats what you are?

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it is far from ideological, perhaps you would correlate that.

yeah i am late but not about to let you rant. you are the blind one. what i said about south america is true and has nothing to do with the "brown" man as you so delicately put it. south america is getting hostile.

i can tell you are a big boy on the block hater. look, we are not perfect, when it comes to foreign policy who would have guessed that a country would react with its own best interests in mind? duh..... yeah free to do what they want, then they expect things from us over here. OH america! oh land of wealth and resources, help us against our more powerful neighbors....send us alliances, guns, aid, and influence. see where i am going? didnt see quite that way did you? other countries beg for our influence, and we give it at aprice. BUT>>>when there is a long time peace like in europe and america, countries feel like they dont need it, and they probably dont, until they find a reason to use it.

so spare me with your shortsightedness.

and people who think like you allow, hitlers to come to power. we all know what happened there.

I think you are right from the point of view of a person with a strong pro-American bias. But if we try to look at the picture from more of a neutral position, then we may see that the major power players were simply installing in various weak countries their puppet governments, who THEN were asking for support, influence etc - and this was provided... at a cost as you say. And this cost was paid by the country, not by its puppet government. When there was Cold war, these key powers were USA and USSR. Now it is several players, the strongest USA and some weaker ones against it and against each other too. Say, South Korea is only alive because of US influence, but North Korea is only alive because of Chinese and Russian influence used together against the one of USA... Absolutely the same thing in all other cases - so I would not be saying someone "begs" for influence and help.

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I think you are right from the point of view of a person with a strong pro-American bias. But if we try to look at the picture from more of a neutral position, then we may see that the major power players were simply installing in various weak countries their puppet governments, who THEN were asking for support, influence etc - and this was provided... at a cost as you say. And this cost was paid by the country, not by its puppet government. When there was Cold war, these key powers were USA and USSR. Now it is several players, the strongest USA and some weaker ones against it and against each other too. Say, South Korea is only alive because of US influence, but North Korea is only alive because of Chinese and Russian influence used together against the one of USA... Absolutely the same thing in all other cases - so I would not be saying someone "begs" for influence and help.

ok well maybe they dont beg exactly, but you are correct about the puppet govt's. it has been all about what is good for the dominant country's position and all. human politics sure can be ugly, but at least some of us (you and I..and others) realize this and can get past it in order to ponder what it all means and what can be done about it.---which is nice, because there are so many kids running around over here at the university i attend, future voters, that think the world is made of fuzzy bunnies and Obama and the like are going to put flowers in their hair and make it all good. we know its not that simple, as you illustrated with your references to historical events. :tu:

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ok well maybe they dont beg exactly, but you are correct about the puppet govt's. it has been all about what is good for the dominant country's position and all. human politics sure can be ugly, but at least some of us (you and I..and others) realize this and can get past it in order to ponder what it all means and what can be done about it.---which is nice, because there are so many kids running around over here at the university i attend, future voters, that think the world is made of fuzzy bunnies and Obama and the like are going to put flowers in their hair and make it all good. we know its not that simple, as you illustrated with your references to historical events. :tu:

Hehe! But this is absolutely impossible to explain to those stupid kids what the reality is - as this is the same as to cure someone from stupidity! The only way for them is to get their own experiences and learn the hard way on their own. It is some scientific data which can be passed from generation to generation, but only probably one of a million of us manages to pass to the younger one the way of correct thinking and adequate understanding - and this young person then easily becomes a leader of the gullible and disoriented majority of his age group. There is plenty of people who proudly maintain mental virginity up to the pension times. :)

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Hehe! But this is absolutely impossible to explain to those stupid kids what the reality is - as this is the same as to cure someone from stupidity! The only way for them is to get their own experiences and learn the hard way on their own. It is some scientific data which can be passed from generation to generation, but only probably one of a million of us manages to pass to the younger one the way of correct thinking and adequate understanding - and this young person then easily becomes a leader of the gullible and disoriented majority of his age group. There is plenty of people who proudly maintain mental virginity up to the pension times. :)

true. man thats why i am so big about mentoring programs for the youth, or big brothers big sisters programs. Hopefully once i graduate i can get a job as a teacher as long as they are hiring and not firing here in broke-azz california, i can affect many childrens lives. not in some "go buy guns kids" type way but in a way that helps them love to learn about the world and to sort out the crap.

you know, there is a newer teaching methodology called contructivism that directs that children not learn dates or peoples names so much as learn about the chains of events and conditions that led to great historical events that changed the course of history. it is supposed to develop their logic processing parts of the brain so that they can process a step by step understanding of how the world works to help them make better decisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_(learning_theory) this kinda explains it.

anyways this is not totally off topic, it relates in that if todays people had a grasp of history knowledge (constructivist methods may help) then they might understand what could result of unification of countries and what it would mean for the world power-order and all its intricancies and domino effects.

i still am for it happening, maybe there could be one giant unified country with the USA and the EU...I am down for it,,,,belgian beer is so good!

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true. man thats why i am so big about mentoring programs for the youth, or big brothers big sisters programs. Hopefully once i graduate i can get a job as a teacher as long as they are hiring and not firing here in broke-azz california, i can affect many childrens lives. not in some "go buy guns kids" type way but in a way that helps them love to learn about the world and to sort out the crap.

you know, there is a newer teaching methodology called contructivism that directs that children not learn dates or peoples names so much as learn about the chains of events and conditions that led to great historical events that changed the course of history. it is supposed to develop their logic processing parts of the brain so that they can process a step by step understanding of how the world works to help them make better decisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructivism_(learning_theory) this kinda explains it.

anyways this is not totally off topic, it relates in that if todays people had a grasp of history knowledge (constructivist methods may help) then they might understand what could result of unification of countries and what it would mean for the world power-order and all its intricancies and domino effects.

i still am for it happening, maybe there could be one giant unified country with the USA and the EU...I am down for it,,,,belgian beer is so good!

I am not against the dream of world government at all, neither am I against one country - what scares me is that there shall be the enthusiasts who would like this to be accomplished in their lifetime, and it was not in my plans to die for someone's dream!

As for the kids, the learning success rests on their own curiosity at most, so this is probably the feature which has to be attended by a teacher. I was teaching in year 8-11 for several years, as in USSR my engineering diploma was allowing me to teach the teens at school (not the little kids of course), and I know that nothing can be pushed down their throat if they do not feel curious about this. Chemistry is pretty dull when presented through the textbooks, so I was doing a lot of demonstrations and giving practical tasks. It had some impact on the stability of the suburb, as some demos they were repeating in the streets :) but I cannot complain about their average level of knowledge. The school had to repaint the ceiling in the class once a year :lol:

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I don't understand the EU very well, but from what I understand, the new one they propose is ironing out the creases which the old EU stumbled on, is it not?

What would Russia think, having another superpower on its borders (The others being China and the United States)?

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I don't understand the EU very well, but from what I understand, the new one they propose is ironing out the creases which the old EU stumbled on, is it not?

What would Russia think, having another superpower on its borders (The others being China and the United States)?

They would have to live with it...on the other side of Russia is China.

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This is the best idea I've read all year. this means the U.S. can close all its bases and military stations in Europe

Here is a neet list of the world super powers

United States

China

Russia

NATO

The United Nations

and now the People Republic of Europe

Show me where I'm wrong

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This is the best idea I've read all year. this means the U.S. can close all its bases and military stations in Europe

Here is a neet list of the world super powers

United States

China

Russia

NATO

The United Nations

and now the People Republic of Europe

Show me where I'm wrong

You can scratch NATO out of there... most members are from the evil People Republic of Europe. Besides, I doubt it would survive the withdrawal of the US from Europe for long.

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You can scratch NATO out of there... most members are from the evil People Republic of Europe. Besides, I doubt it would survive the withdrawal of the US from Europe for long.

NATO is still a world power and they are not evil, just missled.

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NATO is still a world power and they are not evil, just missled.

May be ...but we live very well here. Most (except self employed idiots like me) don't have to worry about getting fired, don't have to worry about getting sick and don't have to worry about saving for retirement.

Are you sure that they are "mislead"?

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May be ...but we live very well here. Most (except self employed idiots like me) don't have to worry about getting fired, don't have to worry about getting sick and don't have to worry about saving for retirement.

Are you sure that they are "mislead"?

Questionmark, who are you kidding. Greece’s credit rating has been placed on credit watch . stocks in Greece fell nearly 3%, its putting pressure on the Euro and you act like everything is fine.

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Questionmark, who are you kidding. Greece’s credit rating has been placed on credit watch . stocks in Greece fell nearly 3%, its putting pressure on the Euro and you act like everything is fine.

Greece has been broke since King Otto... that was in 1833. Nothing new. The EU will provide. Else every Greek will be in Europe trying to find a job.

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You can scratch NATO out of there... most members are from the evil People Republic of Europe. Besides, I doubt it would survive the withdrawal of the US from Europe for long.

I would scratch out UN and and NATO too. Also Russia and China are not superpowers, they are regional powers with some superpower capabilities. US stays practically alone, as EU cannot become a superpower until British and French nukes go under Brussels control (which would probably happen only after Second Coming of Jesus, and even then its nuclear capability would be a joke).

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