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New World Super-Power forming in Europe?


Karlis
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To be honest I doubt very much that EU has any chance to become not only a superpower, but a state at all. It is all on the paper so far, and possibly would stay on it forever. They are accelerating the paperwork, hoping the reality would then change to fit it. This would be the 4th case when Europe was somehow united - Roman Empire (1st Reich), Holy Roman Empire of German Nations (2nd Reich), 3rd Reich, and now EU. But even without any Empires for most of the history European borders were open, despite for the last 300-400 years a guard could check the passport at border-crossing, however the majority of Europeans were walking both ways with no papers at all.

There is no single nation, residing in Europe, and all who resides have their own national governments; all these governments carry their specific international policies and pursue their specific geopolitical interests. Central government would not be able to resolve bilateral and trilateral contradictions which many members have since times immemorial - I mean if it would be, I will be only clapping my hand, as I do not wish to Europe anything bad. I simply saw the style and political abilities of Mr Blair, and if this all was forged with him in mind, then it would probably be better to ditch the whole idea without wasting time and money. To me he is hardly capable even to rule over a farm, and his luck in UK was only due to the high regularity of thinking, patience, predictability and discipline of the population. If to formulate a bit more exact, the political undertaking of such historical magnitude rather requires a Cromwell, a Churchill, even a Disraeli, but not a Louis-Philippe. My forecast - in 15 years there would be only memories of EU and a collectible flag.

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just to pick you up on that.

No standing Army, read the treaty, who are the Euro Corpswho are the European Gendarmerie Force

Neither of these are EU Instruments, ergo sum, are not related to the EU.

I stand by what I previously said. The Lisbon Treaty has not, and does not, create a European Super-State

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you do know that most of the world conquerers have come out of europe

A lot of the world's culture, modern government systems, and philosophy came from Europe.

On the flip side conquerers can be found in the Americas (Aztec and Inac), Asia (China, Japan, Mongols), and Africa (Egypt, Carthage, and Zulus).

I for one have high hopes for the EU and hope they become more involved in world affairs.

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A lot of the world's culture, modern government systems, and philosophy came from Europe.

On the flip side conquerers can be found in the Americas (Aztec and Inac), Asia (China, Japan, Mongols), and Africa (Egypt, Carthage, and Zulus).

I for one have high hopes for the EU and hope they become more involved in world affairs.

you forgot the mayans. but the americas only wanted to conquer what they could walk to.

japan didn't try to conguer the world until the 20th century. china usually goes hiding if it gets to far out. zulus never had a chance(brits), carthage wasn't out to conguer the world. just get rich defeating anyone they could.

stupid romans never knew when they were beaten.

Edited by danielost
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The Incas had a very large empire, a lot bigger than someone could easily walk about. Japan still were conquers no matter when they started, China didn't go nuts because they thought everyone else should come to them and used cultural influences, the Zulus were able to build a strong empire before the Brits showed up, and who's to say what Carthage would have done without Rome in the way. They did conquer Spain after all.

But that's neither here nor there. Just wanted to point out that people around the world can be just as violent as those in Europe. Europeans were just able to spam out technological advances faster :P

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The Incas had a very large empire, a lot bigger than someone could easily walk about. Japan still were conquers no matter when they started, China didn't go nuts because they thought everyone else should come to them and used cultural influences, the Zulus were able to build a strong empire before the Brits showed up, and who's to say what Carthage would have done without Rome in the way. They did conquer Spain after all.

But that's neither here nor there. Just wanted to point out that people around the world can be just as violent as those in Europe. Europeans were just able to spam out technological advances faster :P

china actually had most of the techs a lot earlier than europe. they even had water tight compartments and a better sail system. no one had to climb to often after they set sail.

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china actually had most of the techs a lot earlier than europe. they even had water tight compartments and a better sail system. no one had to climb to often after they set sail.

And a group of fanatics who did their best trying to stop all advances with Confucian arguments. We know the end of the story.

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And a group of fanatics who did their best trying to stop all advances with Confucian arguments. We know the end of the story.

not really trying to stop the advances as opposed to not using them.

we still use many of the advances that they used then.

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SO when can we start calling it the United States of Europe?

I wonder when they will push for a single language? Probably English, as it is probably the most commonly taught foreign language. (I think? Correct me if I am wrong.)

I do not see a problem, the US has been organized like this from the beginning. If the individual states are having problems, then they should be allowed to leave the Union.

I don't know a terrible amount about the EU, but are there any Western European countries not in the Union?

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The Reich has finally succeeded

and this time didn't have to fire a shot!

They always said third time round they would conquer by stealth and subterfuge

Just tell everyone they are voting for a trade agreement, they will never notice!

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SO when can we start calling it the United States of Europe?

I wonder when they will push for a single language? Probably English, as it is probably the most commonly taught foreign language. (I think? Correct me if I am wrong.)

I do not see a problem, the US has been organized like this from the beginning. If the individual states are having problems, then they should be allowed to leave the Union.

I don't know a terrible amount about the EU, but are there any Western European countries not in the Union?

There will be no United States of Europe and Europe's most stable countries have shown that multilingualism is not a hindrance for nationalism...besides knowing several languages enhances brain power. And yes, there is Switzerland not part of the Union, though they have an association agreement and obey all European rules.

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The Reich has finally succeeded

and this time didn't have to fire a shot!

They always said third time round they would conquer by stealth and subterfuge

Just tell everyone they are voting for a trade agreement, they will never notice!

Wouldn't this be the 4th Reich?? Hitler's Germany was supposed to be the 3rd Reich.

There will be no United States of Europe and Europe's most stable countries have shown that multilingualism is not a hindrance for nationalism...besides knowing several languages enhances brain power. And yes, there is Switzerland not part of the Union, though they have an association agreement and obey all European rules.

Multilingualism has indeed been shown to increase scores on standardized testing.

But, for government you need a unifying language. They use English for all commercial air travel instruction, because it is easier then having 200 interpretors at every airport. The same will go for any European Congress. All the legislators will most likely be required to use a single language, for simplicity's sake. Allowing each legislator to speak and write in his/her own language will require the work of hundreds or thousands of translators for the dozens of countries involved. Misunderstandings will be so common that the EU Congress would look like the UN, with little getting done except recesses for translating.

Ah... the Swiss. I should have known.

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Anyone who is ok with thier country being dictated by a foriegn power needs thier head examined.

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Anyone who is ok with thier country being dictated by a foriegn power needs thier head examined.

What foreign power?

You mean the European parliament with elected members from all states that at the end of the day passes the laws to be obeyed?

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Anyone who is ok with thier country being dictated by a foriegn power needs thier head examined.

Well many modern countries were at one time made up of several foreign powers. Sometimes the other choices open to you are worst and after a while that power stops becoming foreign.

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Anyone who is ok with thier country being dictated by a foriegn power needs thier head examined.

You have been dictated to by OPEC for decades... HELLO, WAKE UP!!!!!!1

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Wouldn't this be the 4th Reich?? Hitler's Germany was supposed to be the 3rd Reich.

Multilingualism has indeed been shown to increase scores on standardized testing.

But, for government you need a unifying language. They use English for all commercial air travel instruction, because it is easier then having 200 interpretors at every airport. The same will go for any European Congress. All the legislators will most likely be required to use a single language, for simplicity's sake. Allowing each legislator to speak and write in his/her own language will require the work of hundreds or thousands of translators for the dozens of countries involved. Misunderstandings will be so common that the EU Congress would look like the UN, with little getting done except recesses for translating.

Ah... the Swiss. I should have known.

Yeah, go and tell the French that. :P English isn't the second language in many countries in Europe, though many people in most countries understand it and speak it. Anyway, I wonder what happened to Esperanto?

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I don't understand the negatives that can come out of a united Europe and why some feel threatened by it. I haven't read the whole treaty so I'm not sure how in depth the commitment goes but looking at it from an outside point of view there must be plenty of positives if almost all of europe is a part of it from the initial half a dozen or so who started it off.

Europeans have been fighting wars amongst themselves forever. This is unlikely to happen anymore and the consequences of not being part of the EU and having to go alone would make it financially hard for any economy. Obviously all nations need to have their fair equal representation otherwise this could cause imbalance. As the saying goes "United we stand, divided we fall" and this IMO is the only way that europeans can compete in future against China, the US and Russia (once they get their act together).

Only cultural ego's can't see the benefit in this. Then again I might be wrong if the Treaty has a lot of trickery fine print in it. :tu:

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The EU is pure cultural genocide, just like all globalist organizations.

"Join up, world peace! ELIMINATE ALL CULTURAL UNIQUENESS! WE'RE ALL ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY!" Ugh...such humanistic dribble.

Yeah, except that is utter rubbish and doesn't happen, but don't let facts get in the way like.

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You have been dictated to by OPEC for decades... HELLO, WAKE UP!!!!!!1

no we've been letting them think that they have been dictating to us.

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no i mean the british, the french, the spainish, the portiguese, the germans twice, and the italians(romans), and lets not forget the greeks.

British: Oh yes, and their part of the EU is mostly to drain funds out of it and complain loudly about how nasty it is.

French: Erhm, when did the French become world conquerors? They had a bunch of colonies at most.

Portuguese: Yeah, they had some power, most of it economical though.

Germans: While they did have a vast amount of land in WW2, it was mostly in Europe.(not so much in WW1, and hell, they weren't really to blame for that debacle. Not single-handedly anyhow)

Italy/Rome: Yeah, Rome is gone since about 1500 years. Italy is too corrupt and squabbling to be much of a threat.

Im disappointed you didn't include the Dutch and the Vikings.

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Here is a comment from people who lived through a history that just -- maybe -- may repeat itself.

Hard to believe? Only time will tell I guess

Twenty Years after the Fall of the Berlin Wall, the EU is a Reincarnation of the Former Soviet Union

... Most European governments today are using time-honored Stasi techniques to keep their citizens under surveillance. However, technology has advanced so impressively since the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989, that today's government spooks glean more information on unwitting civilians than the most fanatical Stasi agent would have hoped for in his wildest fantasies.

As recently as 2006,
a most eloquent and insightful warning against the EU and the Lisbon Treaty's precursor, the ill-fated “constitution”, was given by former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky.

Traumatized by the experience of living in the Soviet Union,
Bukovsky noted the deeply disturbing similarities between the old Soviet Union and the blueprints for the EU super state.
The European Commission, he noted, was the exact equivalent of the old Soviet Politbureau, in terms of the secretive way power was exercised, the recruitment and personalities of its members and the scope and reach of its decisions. The “European Parliament” today (and under the terms of the Lisbon Treaty) is a mere rubber stamp institution, just like the “Supreme Soviet” of the old USSR.

As a matter of fact,
there are so many similarities between the old Soviet Union and the EU that mere coincidence is unlikely.
Bukovsky argues the EU was designed to be like the old USSR. The architects of the EU? Mostly social democrats, whom Stalin quite aptly called “Social Fascists.”

Most Europeans have not yet understood this. Most are still indifferent, but their indifference will soon vanish when the full weight of repressive EU policies and EU taxation doing its destructive work will be felt. ...

Edited by Karlis
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