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New World Super-Power forming in Europe?


Karlis
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I think Questionmark is right. Unless the countries of Europe band together tighter and tighter, they will eventually be reduced to irrelavency as far as the world economy is concerned. Maybe the really cheap plastic toys will eventually say, "Made in Germany", or "Made in Frace" on them instead of "Made in China"?

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Maybe the really cheap plastic toys will eventually say, "Made in Germany", or "Made in Frace" on them instead of "Made in China"?

Wouldn't that be counter-evolutionary, though? The reason why you see those toys say "made in China" is because of cheap, risk-free labor. You don't have to worry about unions, laws, human rights, or pollution. It's called industrialization. The US went through it. Europe went through it. Now eastern Asia is going through it. I'd say the next few generations will begin to notice more "Made in Angola" stickers, if anything.

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Probably you are right. It will be more of a, "Nothing made there", kind of situation.

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Now we need to come up with a catchy song for this new Nation. Maybe something from John Tesh or David Hasselhoff? Maybe they can hire Madonna to write something??

Maybe the Beatles' Taxman?

One, two, three, four...

Hrmm!

One, two, (one, two, three, four!)

Let me tell you how it will be;

There's one for you, nineteen for me.

'Cause I?m the taxman,

Yeah, I?m the taxman.

Should five per cent appear too small,

Be thankful I don't take it all.

'Cause I?m the taxman,

Yeah, I?m the taxman.

(if you drive a car, car;) - I?ll tax the street;

(if you try to sit, sit;) - I?ll tax your seat;

(if you get too cold, cold;) - I?ll tax the heat;

(if you take a walk, walk;) - I'll tax your feet.

Taxman!

'Cause I?m the taxman,

Yeah, I?m the taxman.

Don't ask me what I want it for, (ah-ah, mister Wilson)

If you don't want to pay some more. (ah-ah, mister heath)

'Cause I?m the taxman,

Yeah, I?m the taxman.

Now my advice for those who die, (taxman)

Declare the pennies on your eyes. (taxman)

'Cause I?m the taxman,

Yeah, I?m the taxman.

And you're working for no one but me.

Taxman!

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Most people in Europe see it as the only real chance of any European country to keep any type of relevance. No European country, and that includes Germany, has enough weight to pass the upcoming test of time independently because they just don't bring the mass to stand up to India or China. Europeans can be either a united power or separated vassals...there is nothing in between.

It's possible that Europe is heading for unity and becoming a 'Global Power', if the following is true:

Potential of a World Power

2009/11/17

BERLIN/BRUSSELS

… German policy advisors consider that
the EU has the "potential of a world power"
but point out that this potential must first be established through Brussels' external policy.

It was under German pressure that the decision was made to place the EU's military planning and operation staff within the responsibility of the External Action Service, to be able to directly incorporate military operations into EU external policy. In the meantime,
the German project of creating an EU army is winning favor.
Last weekend the Italian Foreign Minister gave his accord. …

… It is "absolutely essential" that the EU's influence be reinforced with a cohesive external and military policy. …

It is quite possible to achieve substantial global political power,
according to Werner Weidenfeld, one of the most influential German political advisors.
Even though the EU's global involvement currently is rather rudimentary,
Weidenfeld writes in a recent article,
"Europe has the potential of a world power
- it has top positions in global commerce, in global production as well as in research and education." Weidenfels resumes,
"this potential (...) only needs adequate organization"
. …

... The German call for a joint European Army (german-foreign-policy.com reported [6]), is gaining support. Last weekend, the Italian Foreign Minister, Franco Frattini, announced that his government will
push for the creation of a European army, as soon as the Lisbon Treaty comes into force on December 1.

… If there were such a European army, … This merger would deprive individual European nations the possibility of defending their sovereignty. It would also subordinate their armies to the European External Action Service in Brussels. And this would mean subordination under the power that can currently call the shots: Germany.

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It's possible that Europe is heading for unity and becoming a 'Global Power', if the following is true:

The EU has been a power for some time, just not a traditional one. The former German chancellor Schmidt once called it an economical giant and a political midget.

For the time being it will be a question of finding common interests that then will be then represented by the "Commissary for foreign affairs" (a nice euphemism for secretary of state that came about because some fear to loose something).

It will take another 10-20 years before all Europeans realize that it will be better to speak with one voice than with 25 and keep the fight about what that voice should say at home.

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Well even with its problems the EU has done a ton of good. If nothing else it seems to have stoped the endless cycle of wars. Europe is long overdue for one.

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Well even with its problems the EU has done a ton of good. If nothing else it seems to have stoped the endless cycle of wars. Europe is long overdue for one.

You are right.... the cycle of wars is over. The EU is the biggest trading bloc in the world. Technology and Advancement is in our hands, probably the only bloc able to match Asia. The USA is fast becoming irrelevant due to its "might is right" policy. I prefer to be in the EU because, and this is just IMO, the EU can bring to the world diversity and tolerance. As I said, just IMO.

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I guess the new President of the EU is going to be the Belgian PM.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8369473.stm

They named a Brit as the Foreign Relations rep. Maybe to keep the UK in the EU?

No, after the Milliband/Blair debacle they had to throw them a bone...besides I cannot imagine a politician with less foreign experience then her.

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No, after the Milliband/Blair debacle they had to throw them a bone...besides I cannot imagine a politician with less foreign experience then her.

Baroness Ashton???no.gif No Gravitas, No profile, No personality - perfect political choicehmm.gif

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Baroness Ashton???no.gif No Gravitas, No profile, No personality - perfect political choicehmm.gif

Yep, time to start a pan-European initiative to elect the prezz directly.

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You are right.... the cycle of wars is over. The EU is the biggest trading bloc in the world. Technology and Advancement is in our hands, probably the only bloc able to match Asia. The USA is fast becoming irrelevant due to its "might is right" policy. I prefer to be in the EU because, and this is just IMO, the EU can bring to the world diversity and tolerance. As I said, just IMO.

I welcome a superpower on good terms with the US to join the world's ranks as greats in history. But I do wonder if the EU can avoid the troubles that the melting pot that is the US can bring under the flags of 'diversity' and 'tolerance'. Because under the makeup of unity here in the US lies the ugly truth of scarred segregation, something Europe is not alien to.

In the end, however, even the EU, should it rise to the ranks of powerful giants won't avoid the corruptions that the status of superpower will bring. When you become the bully, you see no other alternative.

Or maybe I shouldn't post under the influence of spirits/fire water at 0130.

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The EU has been a power for some time, just not a traditional one. The former German chancellor Schmidt once called it an economical giant and a political midget.

For the time being it will be a question of finding common interests that then will be then represented by the "Commissary for foreign affairs" (a nice euphemism for secretary of state that came about because some fear to loose something).

It will take another 10-20 years before all Europeans realize that it will be better to speak with one voice than with 25 and keep the fight about what that voice should say at home.

What Karlis posted seems to be not what you understood of it. His post says the GERMANY wants to establish a unified command for EU to act as a single power. Because now it does not! If you translate the post from political to human language, it means that French and British nuclear arsenals have to be taken from under national control and transferred under EU control. De-facto Germany tries to disarm two nuclear powers! And then what? What if the commander of this "external force" would be a German?

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What Karlis posted seems to be not what you understood of it. His post says the GERMANY wants to establish a unified command for EU to act as a single power. Because now it does not! If you translate the post from political to human language, it means that French and British nuclear arsenals have to be taken from under national control and transferred under EU control. De-facto Germany tries to disarm two nuclear powers! And then what? What if the commander of this "external force" would be a German?

That's the way Europe seems to be heading, Marabod; and it's not as if this has not happened in Europe's past history.

These are 'interesting times', and the future is far from clear to anyone as yet, imo.

Karlis

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That's the way Europe seems to be heading, Marabod; and it's not as if this has not happened in Europe's past history.

These are 'interesting times', and the future is far from clear to anyone as yet, imo.

Karlis

I agree - but in reality I cannot imagine France and UK ever agreeing on this. The war only ended 70 years ago, and cost over 50 million lives. Now two winners and two losers formed a joint state - but the two main losers are trying to take their weapons away! The immediate consequence of this would be Britain and France losing veto power in UNSC, as veto only makes sense when supported by the nuclear powers.I mean they still can say "veto" but everyone would know they cannot enforce this veto anyhow, as their means of enforcement belong not to them but to EU. This makes USA a minority against China and Russia.

If the World Order is allowed to change, and EU becomes a member of UNSC instead of the current two, then the voices becomes 2 by 2, so the only majority vote between the superpowers becomes 3 to 1 - and this would completely change the life on the planet as significance of China's vote would grow and this may eventually make the policies more rigid and, at the end of the day, more risky.

It is impossible to keep the balance by allowing to EU having 2 votes at once. Historically it may seem possible as in General Assembly USSR had 3 votes - but those were not veto votes, while in EU case it contains two nuclear powers with their independent veto rights. I need to think on this more, which other ramifications are to follow from this joint army command...

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European Union gives Nigeria $1bn 'for peace'

The European Commission has signed a $1bn (£602m) development pact with Nigeria, aimed at tackling corruption and promoting peace.

A substantial amount of the funding will be spent on resolving conflict in the oil-rich and crime-plagued Niger Delta, the EU's development chief said.

€1 BILLION Euros, I got my world map out, and yes i was right Nigeria is definitely not in Europe so why the hell are the EU giving Nigeria one billion euros for peace?

but then it all become clear. link

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one con-job after another.

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I agree - but in reality I cannot imagine France and UK ever agreeing on this. The war only ended 70 years ago, and cost over 50 million lives. Now two winners and two losers formed a joint state - but the two main losers are trying to take their weapons away! The immediate consequence of this would be Britain and France losing veto power in UNSC, as veto only makes sense when supported by the nuclear powers.I mean they still can say "veto" but everyone would know they cannot enforce this veto anyhow, as their means of enforcement belong not to them but to EU. This makes USA a minority against China and Russia.

If the World Order is allowed to change, and EU becomes a member of UNSC instead of the current two, then the voices becomes 2 by 2, so the only majority vote between the superpowers becomes 3 to 1 - and this would completely change the life on the planet as significance of China's vote would grow and this may eventually make the policies more rigid and, at the end of the day, more risky.

It is impossible to keep the balance by allowing to EU having 2 votes at once. Historically it may seem possible as in General Assembly USSR had 3 votes - but those were not veto votes, while in EU case it contains two nuclear powers with their independent veto rights. I need to think on this more, which other ramifications are to follow from this joint army command...

if the british and france vetoes were consolidated into one, we may see a stronger push for israel to gain a seat on the council. maybe?

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if the british and france vetoes were consolidated into one, we may see a stronger push for israel to gain a seat on the council. maybe?

Ultimate NO! Uk plus France is still nothing if compared to US or Russia. Their combined veto is worth peanuts. At the moment it all goes traditional way, so their votes are simply counted as an addition to US vote. I am too lazy to search for UN statistics, but it seems all ever used vetoes are split somehow between USA and Russia/USSR. The others simply never had any power to enforce their vetoes. Veto is a threat of WAR.

If UK ajoins France in one veto, suject to EU decision, this would cause just a global laugh and US' lamentations. EU as a single power means the end of US superiority. In fact this is a return to Russia/USA power balance. Whoever of them two at the moment has more reliable missiles, would rule the planet. They both can damage each other beyond repair - but whom UK and France can damage like that? Iran?

This world is a wolves mob, no more. There is no "International law" as such, this "law" is just a set of agreements, enforced by the super-powers. If the superpowers fail to act together (say, France and UK pass their powers to EU) then the power of the strongest one would decide.

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Herman Van Rompuy: Europe's first president to push for 'Euro tax'

Herman Van Rompuy, Europe's first president, is to join forces with the European Commission to push for sweeping new tax raising powers for Brussels

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Well Steve, I don't know if you noticed, but there is already a Euro TAX, just nobody seez it loud...it is called VAT.

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Well Steve, I don't know if you noticed, but there is already a Euro TAX, just nobody seez it loud...it is called VAT.

i know that, i brought it up in a thread not so long ago.

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i know that, i brought it up in a thread not so long ago.

So, whass the hype?

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