Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

New World Super-Power forming in Europe?


Karlis
 Share

Recommended Posts

Answer the question.... What is magnificent and glorious about the UK?

It looks like such pressure on Steve alone justifies his desire to be as far as possible from its source :) Meanwhile he did not even say UK was glorious and magnificent, he simply said he is happy with the country he lives in and does not require it to become a province of a larger state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 274
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • stevewinn

    41

  • keithisco

    26

  • questionmark

    56

  • MARAB0D

    34

It looks like such pressure on Steve alone justifies his desire to be as far as possible from its source original.gif Meanwhile he did not even say UK was glorious and magnificent, he simply said he is happy with the country he lives in and does not require it to become a province of a larger state.

Perhaps it is just my interpretation...... but does that excuse joking about medical conditions?

I dunno why you and others keep bring up the words glory and empires into near every reply. yes we have a proud and magnificent history, a history which rivals anything the world has ever seen, nothing to be ashamed about.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps it is just my interpretation...... but does that excuse joking about medical conditions?

get over yourself will ya Keith i thought you was in the army once upon a time. if my humour makes your toes curl how did you cope back then? or are you now holier-than-thou. it must be your age.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps it is just my interpretation...... but does that excuse joking about medical conditions?

Quote

I dunno why you and others keep bring up the words glory and empires into near every reply. yes we have a proud and magnificent history, a history which rivals anything the world has ever seen, nothing to be ashamed about.

I dont get it. Do you think he is supposed to be shy of his country's history? Why?

I am actually experiencing a shock, watching how he is treated at the moment, but the same time it is bizarre enough, as I myself had experiences encountering some strange people who for some reason were trying to persuade me to feel shame for the history of Russia/USSR. Mostly they were from those nations which suffered from Russia occupations and mistreatment in historical past. So my conclusion was that a winner is always supposed to be ashamed while a loser is always a noble martyr :) Now the same works against UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Answer the question.... What is magnificent and glorious about the UK?

it's history... and that's exactly what steve said was 'magnificant and glorious. not sure if there's anyone on the planet who could disagree with that to be honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's history...

nobody disputes that...but all you have to do is look at Greece to see that you cannot eat history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont get it. Do you think he is supposed to be shy of his country's history? Why?

I am actually experiencing a shock, watching how he is treated at the moment, but the same time it is bizarre enough, as I myself had experiences encountering some strange people who for some reason were trying to persuade me to feel shame for the history of Russia/USSR. Mostly they were from those nations which suffered from Russia occupations and mistreatment in historical past. So my conclusion was that a winner is always supposed to be ashamed while a loser is always a noble martyr :) Now the same works against UK.

its a question i've often asked in the past, a question which is never answered.

it's history... and that's exactly what steve said was 'magnificant and glorious. not sure if there's anyone on the planet who could disagree with that to be honest.

exactly mate you got it in one. :tu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's history... and that's exactly what steve said was 'magnificant and glorious. not sure if there's anyone on the planet who could disagree with that to be honest.

Yeah the UK has had a glorious history, likewise Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, Holland, Italy...... and so should Brits be proud of their history. But this was then, now is now. I don't agree with Steve because he isn't seing the big picture in all of this. The world in the future will be dominated by China, Russia, USA & ....the EU. If the UK doesn't jump on board (and the only bus available is the EU), they'll end up marginalised and collecting crumbs left by the other superpowers. I believe the UK has too much to offer to the world to be left out in the cold.

LOL. I wouldn't be looking at Norway as an example to follow unless you're happy to play second fiddle on the world stage.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

nobody disputes that...but all you have to do is look at Greece to see that you cannot eat history.

True - but all historical glory of Greece was 1000 years ago and deeper in the past. And yet its population was eating something for the last 1000 years! From whose hands, we dont know and do not care, as this recent one was not the period of glory for Greece which we all are proud of!

In here we are talking the glory in the RECENT past; so your comparance with Greece may become valid in another 1000 years!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah the UK has had a glorious history, likewise Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, Holland, Italy...... and so should Brits be proud of their history. But this was then, now is now. I don't agree with Steve because he isn't seing the big picture in all of this. The world in the future will be dominated by China, Russia, USA & ....the EU. If the UK doesn't jump on board (and the only bus available is the EU), they'll end up marginalised and collecting crumbs left by the other superpowers. I believe the UK has too much to offer to the world to be left out in the cold.

LOL. I wouldn't be looking at Norway as an example to follow unless you're happy to play second fiddle on the world stage.

i do see the bigger picture, sadly the picture does not include the vast majority of European countries. look carefully now at the countries i name. keeping a eye out for the ones i dont.

of the 27 members these countries will not enhance the EU on becoming a "superpower" Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain,

these countries are simply dead weight, its impossible to move forward carrying all this baggage, you cant be a world power with so many cling ons

you say Norway is not the example to follow. if you dont want to play second fiddle. you don't seem to be getting the gist of what am saying.

Norway is outside the EU. were i want the UK to be, i want the UK once outside to have the same TRADE agreements that Norway does with the EU. that's where the comparison ends.

.

Edited by stevewinn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah the UK has had a glorious history, likewise Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, Holland, Italy...... and so should Brits be proud of their history. But this was then, now is now. I don't agree with Steve because he isn't seing the big picture in all of this. The world in the future will be dominated by China, Russia, USA & ....the EU. If the UK doesn't jump on board (and the only bus available is the EU), they'll end up marginalised and collecting crumbs left by the other superpowers. I believe the UK has too much to offer to the world to be left out in the cold.

LOL. I wouldn't be looking at Norway as an example to follow unless you're happy to play second fiddle on the world stage.

But what sort of benefit UK can obtain from fighting for the leadership in the world? As if now it does not play a second fiddle! The countries who in the modern world are trying to play a solo party, all are risking to be evaporated one night. UK had its heroic times and has a lot to remember about; but hardly it can compete with the countries of larger size, better armed and better equipped with resources. It was enough for UK to create US, so let US plays solo instead while UK would be a second fiddle - which is also a respected role! Mind you, many dozens of countries are just dreaming about such role in the world, as they are not even allowed to produce a sound at all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

True - but all historical glory of Greece was 1000 years ago and deeper in the past. And yet its population was eating something for the last 1000 years! From whose hands, we dont know and do not care, as this recent one was not the period of glory for Greece which we all are proud of!

In here we are talking the glory in the RECENT past; so your comparance with Greece may become valid in another 1000 years!

Scratch Greece and put in Portugal... more recent.

The point I make is that the Empire is gone and will not come back, just as the Athens of the philosophers is gone and won't come back. Different situations require different approaches.

ED: and seriously off...seeing a documentary about the first Manapoori tunnel...speaking of stuff to be proud off.

Edited by questionmark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scratch Greece and put in Portugal... more recent.

The point I make is that the Empire is gone and will not come back, just as the Athens of the philosophers is gone and won't come back. Different situations require different approaches.

But for UK the Empire has not gone at all! And even for Portugal it has not gone yet! UK has USA, Portugal has Brazil. Basically Spain has Mexico and France still have some islands... Germany has nothing, but knowing Germany one may think it may be temporarily :) One can say that Greece has Russia, it would be true to a degree - but here we are talking different people and different language, be them closely linked historically it does not matter.

Do not forget, UK is a nuclear power, a WW2 winner and UN founder. Look at EU! The other almost like UK is France, also seen as WW2 winner, hard to say why... Then we have 2 major WW2 losers - and the rest are... I do not want to be wiped off here, but to be honest all the rest are just useless and hopeless mini-nations historically competing for the right to serve to a current winner. I would probably exclude from this list Dutch, Danish and Swedish, as they also had their glory in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But for UK the Empire has not gone at all! And even for Portugal it has not gone yet! UK has USA, Portugal has Brazil. Basically Spain has Mexico and France still have some islands... Germany has nothing, but knowing Germany one may think it may be temporarily :) One can say that Greece has Russia, it would be true to a degree - but here we are talking different people and different language, be them closely linked historically it does not matter.

Do not forget, UK is a nuclear power, a WW2 winner and UN founder. Look at EU! The other almost like UK is France, also seen as WW2 winner, hard to say why... Then we have 2 major WW2 losers - and the rest are... I do not want to be wiped off here, but to be honest all the rest are just useless and hopeless mini-nations historically competing for the right to serve to a current winner. I would probably exclude from this list Dutch, Danish and Swedish, as they also had their glory in the past.

Sure they do, the Germans have Helgoland and they traded it with the British for Zanzibar! At the time they thought that the Kaiser had lost it, but in retrospective: The Germans still have Helgoland...the British lost Zanzibar....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we leave the EU. we'd have £16 Billion back in the UK's coffers am sure we can find the £2 million needed to keep funding these Ph'ds even the pointless ones.

Apart from all that other money we get from the EU anyway in other forms. Why aren't you taking that into account?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i do see the bigger picture, sadly the picture does not include the vast majority of European countries. look carefully now at the countries i name. keeping a eye out for the ones i dont.

of the 27 members these countries will not enhance the EU on becoming a "superpower" Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain,

these countries are simply dead weight, its impossible to move forward carrying all this baggage, you cant be a world power with so many cling ons

This is because you keep on seeing them as seperate. The European Union was formed to boost the relations between the governments of the European countries and strengthen the trade and commerce ties between the countries of Europe.

To become a superpower it has to be a complete package otherwise the Union doesn't exist and if the Union doesn't exist you go back to the old Europe with some individual nations stronger than others but with no realistic chance in the world of competing with the superpowers anymore, economically speaking.

Militarily there haven't been any wars in Europe since WWII. With a unified Europe this is unlikely to happen.

Also there are benefits in having these "cling ons" as friends rather than close friends with other superpowers, i.e. Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic with Russia ring a bell?

you say Norway is not the example to follow. if you dont want to play second fiddle. you don't seem to be getting the gist of what am saying.

Norway is outside the EU. were i want the UK to be, i want the UK once outside to have the same TRADE agreements that Norway does with the EU. that's where the comparison ends.

That is second fiddle. Where is Norway on the World Map? And I don't mean geographically. What if the EU has a change of policy and interrupts their trade agreements with Norway, where does that leave Norway, one of the few European nations outside the EU? Is that where the UK wants to be?

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But what sort of benefit UK can obtain from fighting for the leadership in the world? As if now it does not play a second fiddle! The countries who in the modern world are trying to play a solo party, all are risking to be evaporated one night. UK had its heroic times and has a lot to remember about; but hardly it can compete with the countries of larger size, better armed and better equipped with resources. It was enough for UK to create US, so let US plays solo instead while UK would be a second fiddle - which is also a respected role! Mind you, many dozens of countries are just dreaming about such role in the world, as they are not even allowed to produce a sound at all!

Exactly, what I'm saying they can't do it alone without the EU. Sure, they would survive through trade agreements with the US, Commonwealth countries etc. But that wouldn't be enough to play an important role on the world stage. IMO of course!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish people would stop repeating this false notion that the UK needs to be part of this political Union. we simply don't.

there are 168 countries in the world who are not part of the European Union. yet the vast majority still trade with them in some way.

Once the UK leaves the Union that will be 169 countries who will be trading with the EU and who are not members.

It would be against international trade laws anyway if we left the EU and the EU tried to limit or block our trade.

but were getting off track here, I want a independent United Kingdom, who will still trade with the EU. like we do with the rest of the world. able to negotiate our own trade agreements with the likes of India - China etc....to think the worlds 6th largest economy is forbidden to negotiate our own trade deals by the EU is just unbelievable.

Its all about democracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish people would stop repeating this false notion that the UK needs to be part of this political Union. we simply don't.

there are 168 countries in the world who are not part of the European Union. yet the vast majority still trade with them in some way.

How many of those 168 countries are relevant on the world stage?

And if it is about democracy: Democracy is never a given it is fought for..day by day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many of those 168 countries are relevant on the world stage?

And if it is about democracy: Democracy is never a given it is fought for..day by day.

i know a lot is at stake for you, i understand your stance on the EU, and why you think its a good thing. your country needs the Union for its development, and if i was living in greece or was born there i'd be joining you in your stance of pro Europe. greece is one of the many cling ons.

if the United Kingdom where to go down the democratic route and hold a referendum on whether we should leave or stay in, the result decided by the majority - the people would be for us as a nation to leave. and you cant put a price on democracy. let the people decide.

but there is far more at stake if the United Kingdom was to leave, via a democratic referendum. it would force many people in europe to seriously push their governments for a similar referendum. and a domino effect would follow. on the back of referendum results other countries would vote to leave, leaving the Union is tatters. countries such has yours would seriously struggle. your lifestyle would be affected along with the rest of the nation.

Like i've said before, if the European Union is so great, why dont they hold referendums in all member countries and let the peoples of europe decide.

you and i know, and the political elite know such a referendum would be disastrous and would signal the end of the union. that's why the political elite refuse the people a vote.

democracy at its finest. :tu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

democracy at its finest. :tu:

and you and I know that democracy does not work as long as the populace is apathetic to it. Then we get an elective dictatorship. How many do you know who knew what parties stood for on European themes during the last European election?

democracy at its finest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and you and I know that democracy does not work as long as the populace is apathetic to it. Then we get an elective dictatorship. How many do you know who knew what parties stood for on European themes during the last European election?

democracy at its finest.

democracy does work if you empower the people. instead of taking it away from them.

why should people vote when they feel and know their vote will change nothing.

reverse this by showing people their votes do count and do change things. and the people will be out in their droves.

a scary thing for people like you, you prey on the apathy in order to gain what you most desire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

democracy does work if you empower the people. instead of taking it away from them.

why should people vote when they feel and know their vote will change nothing.

reverse this by showing people their votes do count and do change things. and the people will be out in their droves.

a scary thing for people like you, you prey on the apathy in order to gain what you most desire.

I don't prey on the apathy of others but I keep preaching to others to get involved... which is not quite the same. But I guess they are right: Preaching never worked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't prey on the apathy of others but I keep preaching to others to get involved... which is not quite the same. But I guess they are right: Preaching never worked.

preaching only works if its the truth you are preaching.

like i say earlier, empower the peoples of europe let the people decide their futures. hold referendums across europe. democracy democracy democracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

preaching only works if its the truth you are preaching.

like i say earlier, empower the peoples of europe let the people decide their futures. hold referendums across europe. democracy democracy democracy.

right...and you are going to introduce a vote on the monarchy in Britain every fortnight in the name of democracy? In Scotland and Wales about the permanence in the British Union every week in the name of democracy?

You are just screaming democracy because you see a chance of getting it your way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.