Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

New World Super-Power forming in Europe?


Karlis
 Share

Recommended Posts

right...and you are going to introduce a vote on the monarchy in Britain every fortnight in the name of democracy? In Scotland and Wales about the permanence in the British Union every week in the name of democracy?

You are just screaming democracy because you see a chance of getting it your way.

the monarchy in britain is a figuare head.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 274
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • stevewinn

    41

  • keithisco

    26

  • questionmark

    56

  • MARAB0D

    34

Democracy only works when ppl educate themselves before voting on something.

Sadly the majority doesn't and follow folk tales rather than facts.

Daddy hates EU? Well then gosh almighty so do I!

We can't keep the pound? Well, I wanna be out of the Union! Pushing their currency on us MEH!

Without even knowing one benefit of such a thing.

That's why it would get so many votes. Not cuz the british ppl actually have a clue about the world. But because they go along with the mass and ppl like to rebel against something. Even if it's bad for them, they'll tag along deluding themselves into thinking they're doing something awesome for their generation and all the ones after it.

Especially when seeing your attitude:

But why wouldn't you want to be part of it? Just because you had no say in it or what?

What do you mean JUST, were talking about democracy here and representation. That reason alone is enough. no matter if you are pro EU or Anti EU.

That's a lot of ppl their mindset yes. And it doesn't go further than that.

"you can't have the piece of candy cuz its bad for your teeth"

"Well now im definitely gonna eat, just because i had no say in it"

Edited by Triade
Link to comment
Share on other sites

right...and you are going to introduce a vote on the monarchy in Britain every fortnight in the name of democracy? In Scotland and Wales about the permanence in the British Union every week in the name of democracy?

You are just screaming democracy because you see a chance of getting it your way.

you are side stepping, were talking about the EU, just shows, you a europhile cant even defend the indefensible when it comes to democracy and the EU. (two words which shouldnt even appear in the same sentence)

what is so wrong with letting the people decide and letting democracy rule the day?

its nice to see your true colours Q. don't believe in democracy when the results wont go your way. unbelievable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are side stepping, were talking about the EU, just shows, you a europhile cant even defend the indefensible when it comes to democracy and the EU. (two words which shouldnt even appear in the same sentence)

what is so wrong with letting the people decide and letting democracy rule the day?

its nice to see your true colours Q. don't believe in democracy when the results wont go your way. unbelievable.

i will answer for him. people shouldn't be allowed to decide for themselves because they will make the wrong choose. as those who voted against same sex marriage in main last month.

after all people are so stupid they are ignoring all the evidence supporting man made global warming/climate change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you are side stepping, were talking about the EU, just shows, you a europhile cant even defend the indefensible when it comes to democracy and the EU. (two words which shouldnt even appear in the same sentence)

what is so wrong with letting the people decide and letting democracy rule the day?

its nice to see your true colours Q. don't believe in democracy when the results wont go your way. unbelievable.

No, it shows how selective you are when you scream democracy...it is OK while it fits you view of the world but it is sidestepping as soon it goes against what you think is how it has to be.

Besides, are there not at least two parties in Great Britain preaching to leave the European Union? How many seats do they have in the Commons? Well, there you have the importance the majority of Briton gives to the theme. They don't even vote those people in. So much for democracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly, what I'm saying they can't do it alone without the EU. Sure, they would survive through trade agreements with the US, Commonwealth countries etc. But that wouldn't be enough to play an important role on the world stage. IMO of course!

My statement was "but hardly it can compete with the countries of larger size, better armed and better equipped with resources." Compete for what? - for leadership in the world. This is a big game now, and UK simply do not fit to play it. However EU is not a help for doing this - at the current moment EU is only of "larger size" than UK, but it is surely not better armed anyhow and completely lacks the resources. Being on her own, UK has all resources needed and money to buy the extra if required - EU would consume the resources UK has and still would need to fight for more. Such fight can be political, but also can be a physical one - thus UK, which alone feels OK, may find itself participating in a war targeting to provide Greece or Poland with fuels...

The sole reason why Norway stays out of EU is that Norway has loads of oil, which it prefers to sell to EU, rather than to give away; same situation or almost the same is with UK. EU would never become a world leader, because for this one needs to fight a war, and EU lacks resources to do this; as such EU also can only expect a role of second fiddle!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it shows how selective you are when you scream democracy...it is OK while it fits you view of the world but it is sidestepping as soon it goes against what you think is how it has to be.

Besides, are there not at least two parties in Great Britain preaching to leave the European Union? How many seats do they have in the Commons? Well, there you have the importance the majority of Briton gives to the theme. They don't even vote those people in. So much for democracy.

Am not selective, because i believe in democracy, i keep doing something you fail to do, i call for the people to have a voice.

regarding the UK, if we held a referendum, in the realms of possibility the people could vote to stay in the EU, a result i wouldn't agree with but would accept.

you on the other hand dont want a referendum because you fear the people. you think you know what's best for everyone yet dont ask them.

UK elections for voting in EU MEP's first position Conservative Party, seen has anti EU. second place United Kingdom Independence Party Anti EU, Third Position Labour. pro EU. all in all, anti EU parties won 56% of the vote. i do believe that is a majority.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am not selective, because i believe in democracy, i keep doing something you fail to do, i call for the people to have a voice.

regarding the UK, if we held a referendum, in the realms of possibility the people could vote to stay in the EU, a result i wouldn't agree with but would accept.

you on the other hand dont want a referendum because you fear the people. you think you know what's best for everyone yet dont ask them.

UK elections for voting in EU MEP's first position Conservative Party, seen has anti EU. second place United Kingdom Independence Party Anti EU, Third Position Labour. pro EU. all in all, anti EU parties won 56% of the vote. i do believe that is a majority.

If those parties in the majority are so much in favor of leaving the EU, why will they not when in the majority come next election?

Right...

But as I said 100 times: if you believe in democracy start campaigning to get the referendum you want, if that does not work start a party to get the referendum you want. Complaining about how bad the EU is will get you nowhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If those parties in the majority are so much in favor of leaving the EU, why will they not when in the majority come next election?

Dont you know the English are wicked? They do not want these parties to rule over UK; but they hate EU and thus elected these parties to rule it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dont you know the English are wicked? They do not want these parties to rule over UK; but they hate EU and thus elected these parties to rule it. :)

Partially it has something to do with the British election system. It goes by district and winner takes it all. While the European (so undemocratic) Parliament elections are computed by proportion. That means that parties like the UKIP or BNP, while not having a chance at home to get a single seat do get representation in Europe for every 1.4 (roughly) percent of the total votes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If those parties in the majority are so much in favor of leaving the EU, why will they not when in the majority come next election?

Right...

But as I said 100 times: if you believe in democracy start campaigning to get the referendum you want, if that does not work start a party to get the referendum you want. Complaining about how bad the EU is will get you nowhere.

We'll have to wait and see what happens in the next general election in may 2010.

i've never heard you say that once let alone a hundred times, but be rest assured i've been taking positive action.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am not selective, because i believe in democracy, i keep doing something you fail to do, i call for the people to have a voice.

regarding the UK, if we held a referendum, in the realms of possibility the people could vote to stay in the EU, a result i wouldn't agree with but would accept.

you on the other hand dont want a referendum because you fear the people. you think you know what's best for everyone yet dont ask them.

UK elections for voting in EU MEP's first position Conservative Party, seen has anti EU. second place United Kingdom Independence Party Anti EU, Third Position Labour. pro EU. all in all, anti EU parties won 56% of the vote. i do believe that is a majority.

Democracy.... lets see, in 1975 there was a referendum about joining the EEC. The people said yes - simple as that. You whinge about the Irish being forced to vote and vote again in referenda to approve Lisbon - yet you would want the same thing in the UK every time the balance tilits slightly towards your position.? Beggars belief.

So just how often do you advocate holding referenda on membership? every 4 yrs, every yr, every 6mths - until YOU finally get the result YOU want... Therein IMO lies the nub of your argument - keep voting until what you say fits in with MY beliefs. That is truly anti-democratic.

End of the day, the Irish were at liberty to reject the 2nd referendum, yet they didnt that is called Democracy!!laugh.gif

Edited by keithisco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Democracy.... lets see, in 1975 there was a referendum about joining the EEC. The people said yes - simple as that. You whinge about the Irish being forced to vote and vote again in referenda to approve Lisbon - yet you would want the same thing in the UK every time the balance tilits slightly towards your position.? Beggars belief.

So just how often do you advocate holding referenda on membership? every 4 yrs, every yr, every 6mths - until YOU finally get the result YOU want... Therein IMO lies the nub of your argument - keep voting until what you say fits in with MY beliefs. That is truly anti-democratic.

End of the day, the Irish were at liberty to reject the 2nd referendum, yet they didnt that is called Democracy!!laugh.gif

people in the UK aged 52 years and under have never had a vote on Europe, if you think that's democracy then, its no wonder you dont have a clue.

and let me make it clear Keith after you went running to the mods trying to get me banned i am finished with you.

Edited by stevewinn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

people in the UK aged 52 years and under have never had a vote on Europe, if you think that's democracy then, its no wonder you dont have a clue.

and let me make it clear Keith after you went running to the mods trying to get me banned i am finished with you.

YOU - and banned? I have never seen another likewise polite and law-obedient poster here! Except maybe Saru... This must be attempted political repressions, Steve! :)

Is it true, Keith? hard to believe!

Edited by marabod
Link to comment
Share on other sites

YOU - and banned? I have never seen another likewise polite and law-obedient poster here! Except maybe Saru... This must be attempted political repressions, Steve! :)

:lol: am like Icarus sometimes i fly to close to the sun.

its true alright i got a pm from Saur himself.

Edited by stevewinn
Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol: am like Icarus sometimes i fly to close to the sun.

its true alright i got a pm from Saur himself.

On the other hand this indicates that EU may be in so a shaky position that may not survive your personal opinion :unsure2:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YOU - and banned? I have never seen another likewise polite and law-obedient poster here! Except maybe Saru... This must be attempted political repressions, Steve! original.gif

Is it true, Keith? hard to believe!

Actually... it is not true Marabod, I also received a warning from Saru, he felt it correct to tell both of us to remain polite and not to de-rail the thread with our own partisan viewpoints. I accept this without question and it was a correct position for Saru to take.

So, just for the record, I did not report any post that Steve made, and if he were honest about the warning then he would realise the same.

So, back on topic.... the UK is in the EU, it still remains to be seen whether the UK skeptics can pull their head out of the sand and actually focus on making it a better Union. Join Schengen, adopt the Euro and get on with the business at hand of actually offer constructive assistance in getting it right, and making it fully accountable

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually... it is not true Marabod, I also received a warning from Saru, he felt it correct to tell both of us to remain polite and not to de-rail the thread with our own partisan viewpoints. I accept this without question and it was a correct position for Saru to take.

So, just for the record, I did not report any post that Steve made, and if he were honest about the warning then he would realise the same.

So, back on topic.... the UK is in the EU, it still remains to be seen whether the UK skeptics can pull their head out of the sand and actually focus on making it a better Union. Join Schengen, adopt the Euro and get on with the business at hand of actually offer constructive assistance in getting it right, and making it fully accountable

Thanx God, I already was scared for EU :lol: You know, in the absence of free press one has to look for various hints, leaks, casually dropped words, etc etc :sk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, back on topic.... the UK is in the EU, it still remains to be seen whether the UK skeptics can pull their head out of the sand and actually focus on making it a better Union. Join Schengen, adopt the Euro and get on with the business at hand of actually offer constructive assistance in getting it right, and making it fully accountable

Or get out instead of just talking about it. The last thing you need in a team is a moping straggler.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

good we need the EU to be a powerhouse. at least it would be a US ally. not only that but then they could get their world trade center type buildings knocked down and have to actually go to war, maybe take over policing their neck of the woods. the poweder keg that is christian vs. muslim europe is getting hot.

if there is one positive aspect militarily, it is that the EU could then actually be a regional policeman, God knows, its getting hot over here in this hemisphere with the south american social revolutions (retards, LMAO)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

good we need the EU to be a powerhouse. at least it would be a US ally. not only that but then they could get their world trade center type buildings knocked down and have to actually go to war, maybe take over policing their neck of the woods. the poweder keg that is christian vs. muslim europe is getting hot.

what makes you think the EU would be an ally if it became a superpower? you forget that most of the countries in NATO have been bullied by the US foreign policy for decades. i would have thought they would be happy to be free of such a thing. free to make their own decisions in their own interests.

that last part above is completely idiotic and what i, and no doubt others, have come to expect from your blinded, ideological posting.

if there is one positive aspect militarily, it is that the EU could then actually be a regional policeman, God knows, its getting hot over here in this hemisphere with the south american social revolutions (retards, LMAO)

yeah that's right mate, keep the brown man down. just like your government has been doing for decades upon decades. people who think like you (backwards) are dangerous as hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I see is a EU , powerful in it's own right (both economically and Militarily). Looking after its own people without going outside of its sphere of immediate concern. The EU can be be totally independent of all Oil cartels, because the money has gone into alternative energy sources (except for the UK of course,), unlike the USA where such a forward thinking attitude towards alternatives is a little lackadaisical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I see is a EU , powerful in it's own right (both economically and Militarily). Looking after its own people without going outside of its sphere of immediate concern. The EU can be be totally independent of all Oil cartels, because the money has gone into alternative energy sources (except for the UK of course,), unlike the USA where such a forward thinking attitude towards alternatives is a little lackadaisical.

The primary reason for early European colonialism was lack of resources. EU is like Japan - many people on the barren land, it can become a world factory, a world banker etc but hardly ever a world ruler. Put it this way - in practical terms no European country ever could win a war of attrition since the times of Roman Empire. Blietzkrieg - OK, but not a long war. On the modern scale EU is simply an overpopulated and wealthy industrial area, occupying a tiny peninsula of huge Eurasia - this automatically limits its capabilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The primary reason for early European colonialism was lack of resources. EU is like Japan - many people on the barren land, it can become a world factory, a world banker etc but hardly ever a world ruler. Put it this way - in practical terms no European country ever could win a war of attrition since the times of Roman Empire. Blietzkrieg - OK, but not a long war. On the modern scale EU is simply an overpopulated and wealthy industrial area, occupying a tiny peninsula of huge Eurasia - this automatically limits its capabilities.

just a point about resources, in this Lisbon treaty which has been bulldozed through against the wishes of the people. It states in the foot notes that every member states resources will be made available to the EU in times of crisis or war.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.