Occultism

[+HerNibs]

I like that quote, thats why you should try shapeshifting in dreams.

This post of yours only shows you havent read the thread because if you had you would understand that I have not said anyway, at all, about physical shapeshifting.

As I am still trying to point out to you both now.... we are talking about OCCULTISM and how humans turn into animals using occultism.

And the definition of shapeshifting(from the occult places)is that its an astral/dreaming experience.

So 'occult' shapeshifting is what it is, in that its an astral thing, not a physical thing at all which you are mistakenly thinking.

I've read the thread and am not sure what the issue is.

Occult = hidden knowledge

Astral plane = in the mind, no evidence of it as a real place

Astral projecting = in the mind, no evidence of it ever happening

Lucid dreaming = recognizing you are in a dream state and being able to "control" that dream state/nothing magical or special, anyone can do that

I don't know what you are trying to teach or expound on with the emphasizing of "OCCULT". I am very familiar with the term.

All of what you are describing is a dream and/or fantasy. Giving it "mystical" labels doesn't make it any more real.

Like I said, not sure what the back and forth is all about, you even admit it is just something that is in a dream and not real correct?

Nibs

[Kazahel]

Like I said, I don't need to sway anybody. As shown by the other posts, everybody here already knows this, except you.

I never agreed with you in that you 'need' to sway others.. Only that you seem to be trying to. Which is easily seen by some of your posts, especially the one I quoted above as my example.

And I don't care what the topic is, you are claiming the impossible. I am not attacking the topic, just your ridiculous posts.

.....

So you dont care that the topic is basically about how to shapeshift using astral/dreaming means?

Because maybe you should care what the actual topic is about then you might be able to contribute.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Kazahel

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

I never agreed with you in that you 'need' to sway others.. Only that you seem to be trying to. Which is easily seen by some of your posts, especially the one I quoted above as my example.

.....

So you dont care that the topic is basically about how to shapeshift using astral/dreaming means?

Because maybe you should care what the actual topic is about then you might be able to contribute.

I already showed you, that I am on topic. I am just pointing out that you are mistaken in thinking that you are a shapeshifter(which is on topic) because you had a dream(which is also on topic).

And again, I neither "need" nor am trying to "sway" others, as everyone here obviously already knows and agrees with me. The only reason posted what I did was to try and save that person the trouble of going over what I already did. I don't have to sway people to the truth, they already know it.

And, since I obviously need to spell thing out for you as you seem to like to take things out of context, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE TOPIC IS, as your postings are illogical and ludicrous. When I said "I don't care what the topic is" I meant "it does not matter what the topic is". Anything else I need to spell out for you??

Edited January 5, 2010 by 667-Neighbor of the Beast

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

I've read the thread and am not sure what the issue is.

Occult = hidden knowledge

Astral plane = in the mind, no evidence of it as a real place

Astral projecting = in the mind, no evidence of it ever happening

Lucid dreaming = recognizing you are in a dream state and being able to "control" that dream state/nothing magical or special, anyone can do that

I don't know what you are trying to teach or expound on with the emphasizing of "OCCULT". I am very familiar with the term.

All of what you are describing is a dream and/or fantasy. Giving it "mystical" labels doesn't make it any more real.

Like I said, not sure what the back and forth is all about, you even admit it is just something that is in a dream and not real correct?

Nibs

I agree completely. The back and forth is mostly because he is saying "I am a shapeshifter because I dreamed I shapeshifted". I am just trying, like you are with your post, to show the flaw in this logic, as dreams are just a persons imagination. So, claiming to be something because you dreamed you are is ridiculous. However, when myself and others have given examples of us doing the same thing, he claims we cannot do that, as it is just a dream and not real. For some reason, he does not see the irony in this.

[Kazahel]

I already showed you, that I am on topic. I am just pointing out that you are mistaken in thinking that you are a shapeshifter(which is on topic) because you had a dream(which is also on topic).

The topic remember is how to shapeshift in regards to the more OCCULT side of the meaning of the word... going by the thread title, which IS DREAMING.

And thats what most seem to not understand. So the back and fourth is you and others coming in to say 'its not real'... while I've been saying all along its supposed to be in dreaming, thats how you 'occult shapeshift' according to the definitions given as Ive shown. But you choose not to beleive the other defintions as you said earlier.

So I said from the start I think the legends of werewolves probably came about from stories of 'occult shapeshifters'.

So you are willingly not wanting to listen to or believe that shapeshifting has been defined by others, as a dreaming/astral experience. Thats where the back and fourth is.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Kazahel

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

The topic remember is how to shapeshift in regards to the more OCCULT side of the meaning of the word... going by the thread title, which IS DREAMING.

And thats what most seem to not understand. So the back and fourth is you and others coming in to say 'its not real'... while I've been saying all along its supposed to be in dreaming, thats how you 'occult shapeshift' according to the definitions given as Ive shown. But you choose not to beleive the other defintions as you said earlier.

So I said from the start I think the legends of werewolves probably came about from stories of 'occult shapeshifters'.

So you are willingly not wanting to listen to or believe that shapeshifting has been defined by others, as a dreaming/astral experience. Thats where the back and fourth is.

Man, you are just not getting what I am saying, and keep repeating yourself. I get what you are saying, but have been trying to show you how flawed your logic is. To say that I and everyone else here does not understand is wrong. We do understand, but do not agree. We are trying to tell you what it is that you are not understanding, but you just keep emphasizing the point that we do not agree on. You are not getting what we are saying. I'm getting tired of it though. You keep emphasizing your point as if it is fact, which it is not, just your opinion. Just because you have found definitions of something that you like better does not make those definitions accurate. The definitions and points that the rest of us are making are provable and backed by science, i.e.- dreams are just imaginary. To claim you did something because you dreamed you did is not logical, nor accurate.

Bottom line- Shapeshifting is a nonexistant thing. It is impossible. Just because you dreamed of shapeshifting does not mean you can claim to be a shapeshifter. You simply had a dream. You imagined that you did something. It is all imaginary. Everybody dreams of doing things, and most of them are not real. To claim you are something because you dreamed you did is madness. I don't care if you call it "occult shapeshifting", or "dreamshifting", it is just your imagination, and nothing more. To try and make it something more than that is simply childish.

[Kazahel]

Man, you are just not getting what I am saying, and keep repeating yourself. I get what you are saying, but have been trying to show you how flawed your logic is. To say that I and everyone else here does not understand is wrong. We do understand, but do not agree.

I understand what you are saying but you are not understanding that occult shapeshifting IS dreaming/astral. So you do not agree with the more 'occult' definition of the word 'shapeshifting'. And I cannot change that.. here is what you said much earlier about it in fact back on page 5..

Yes, but it is not the commonly accepted definition, just the definition created by people who live under the same delusions as yourself.

And so every post since then from you has just been you doing circles because you choose to ignore the more occult definitions given. Which makes me wonder why you are in this thread at all considering its under occultism and how humans transform into animals.

Just because you have found definitions of something that you like better does not make those definitions accurate. The definitions and points that the rest of us are making are provable and backed by science, i.e.- dreams are just imaginary. To claim you did something because you dreamed you did is not logical, nor accurate.

But thats the thing... it is accurate considering the title of this thread.

Bottom line- Shapeshifting is a nonexistant thing. It is impossible. Just because you dreamed of shapeshifting does not mean you can claim to be a shapeshifter. You simply had a dream. You imagined that you did something. It is all imaginary. Everybody dreams of doing things, and most of them are not real. To claim you are something because you dreamed you did is madness. I don't care if you call it "occult shapeshifting", or "dreamshifting", it is just your imagination, and nothing more. To try and make it something more than that is simply childish.

Well obviously shapeshifting it isnt 'impossible' otherwise you wouldnt even mention about 'occult shapeshifting' or 'dreamshifting'. Like I said right at the start.. it is possible, you just have to do it where it is possible. And so if you want to shapeshift using a more occult approach then you would do it while dreaming.

Basically if you dont agree with the more occult definiton of the word 'shapeshifting' and how they turn into animals using more occult means then maybe you shouldnt even be in this thread considering the title.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Kazahel

[667-Neighbor of the Beast]

I understand what you are saying but you are not understanding that occult shapeshifting IS dreaming/astral. So you do not agree with the more 'occult' definition of the word 'shapeshifting'.

And you do not agree with the definition that the rest of the world uses. Does that make me wrong to agree with the vast majority??

And so every post since then from you has just been you doing circles because you choose to ignore the more occult definitions given. Which makes me wonder why you are in this thread at all considering its under occultism and how humans transform into animals.

I do not ignore, I disagree. And why would you question why I am in this thread, as I have been on topic the whole time. I'm sorry if you think that this thread should only be open to people who agree with you, but it is not. It is open to discussion, which I have been doing.

But thats the thing... it is accurate considering the title of this thread. But it is not accurate, because shapeshifting is an imaginary process. It is not something that can be proven, recorded, verified, or even witnessed. Therefore, it does not exist. It is strictly imaginary.

Well obviously shapeshifting it isnt 'impossible' otherwise you wouldnt even mention about 'occult shapeshifting' or 'dreamshifting'. Like I said right at the start.. it is possible, you just have to do it where it is possible. And so if you want to shapeshift using a more occult approach then you would do it while dreaming.I only mentioned it in the context that you used it in. Is this what you are resorting to, is trying to put words in my mouth?? I only referred to "occult shapeshifting" and "dreamshifting" because those are the words you used to describe something that does not exist, hence the quotation marks. Trying to say say that something isn't impossible because I mentioned it is just plain stupid.

Basically if you dont agree with the more occult definiton of the word 'shapeshifting' and how they turn into animals using more occult means then maybe you shouldnt even be in this thread considering the title.

You right, I don't agree with it, because it does not exist. People do not turn into animals, they only imagine they do. That is not shapeshifting, that is imagining. And again, this thread is open for discussion, just like every other thread on here. If you don't like it when someone disagrees with you, then quit posting.

[Kazahel]

You right, I don't agree with it, because it does not exist.

Well according to the more occult minded community(that the OP is kinda asking for), shapeshifting does exist, just like astral travelling is does to some but not to all.

And usually I find the ones that have experienced astral travelling are the believers and the ones that have never experienced it are not..

Edited January 6, 2010 by Kazahel

[PETER GORE SEER]

PETER GORE SEER Any sort of out of body travel is dangerous, witches do not change shape.The evil they are involved with does all that.

[+HerNibs]

PETER GORE SEER Any sort of out of body travel is dangerous, witches do not change shape.The evil they are involved with does all that.

I'm sorry, are you stating that witches are evil? Or involved with evil?

Nibs

[Agent. Mulder]

oooh! are you a good witch or bad witch?

[Pauly Dangerously]

What kind of Witch goes to the beach?

[Agent. Mulder]

What kind of Witch goes to the beach?

tell me paul...

[Pauly Dangerously]

A sandwhich

[Agent. Mulder]

A sandwhich

paul, im telling you this as a friend....dont quit your day job.

[Pauly Dangerously]

.

.

.

.

Fine.

[Moon Minion]

PETER GORE SEER Any sort of out of body travel is dangerous, witches do not change shape.The evil they are involved with does all that.

Am I to assume that equates with the devil? Or demonic entities giving the power of illusion to said witches? Certain folklore equates the devil with shapeshifting, usually followed by evil acts on the shapeshifters part. However not all accounts of belief in shapeshifting follow this mold.

A sandwhich

Oh sooo Coorrnny, 'which' is why I laughed. gotta love the corny jokes...

[Indiogene]

Speaking of occultism, any of you listen to genres of metal rock: black metal, death metal or gothic? The band names as much their song lyrics may display and discuss a fascination with occult practices of satanism (i.e. the upside-down pentagram, vampiric girls and demons appear everywhere on the set) or sometimes, neo-pagan religious rites dedicated to pre-Christian European polytheism (esp. the Swedish and Norwegian kind). No matter how shocking the controversial material is to many people (esp. parental media watchdog groups and the religious right), the black/death metal bands are simply expressing themselves or I say are doing this just for kicks for entertainment purposes.

[Moon Minion]

Speaking of occultism, any of you listen to genres of metal rock: black metal, death metal or gothic? The band names as much their song lyrics may display and discuss a fascination with occult practices of satanism (i.e. the upside-down pentagram, vampiric girls and demons appear everywhere on the set) or sometimes, neo-pagan religious rites dedicated to pre-Christian European polytheism (esp. the Swedish and Norwegian kind). No matter how shocking the controversial material is to many people (esp. parental media watchdog groups and the religious right), the black/death metal bands are simply expressing themselves or I say are doing this just for kicks for entertainment purposes.

Errr I do, a little off topic, but a good portion of these bands have a "gimmick" their satanic reference lyrics can even have a "metaphorical" meaning, spiced up with the dark apparel and Gothic/pagan art representations to set off the intensity of the gimmick. Sometimes certain bands do...I'll say "practice what they preach" but I've noticed there are a lot of posers out there anyway, like you said for the kicks lol. The real deal tend to be more often then not among the Underground scene. Some of it could be genuinely classed as unhealthy, but like with all music, one has to judge for themselves based on their own principals what is/isn't appropriate.

[Jeff Marzano]

Speaking of occultism, any of you listen to genres of metal rock: black metal, death metal or gothic? The band names as much their song lyrics may display and discuss a fascination with occult practices of satanism (i.e. the upside-down pentagram, vampiric girls and demons appear everywhere on the set) or sometimes, neo-pagan religious rites dedicated to pre-Christian European polytheism (esp. the Swedish and Norwegian kind). No matter how shocking the controversial material is to many people (esp. parental media watchdog groups and the religious right), the black/death metal bands are simply expressing themselves or I say are doing this just for kicks for entertainment purposes.

You need only walk through a store that sells music CDs to see that there's an undercurrent of Satanism and the occult in the artwork.

This is also true of comic books to some extent.

I was in a Hot Topic store awhile ago and they were playing some music that sounded like something out of a Friday The 13th movie. Listening to this all day could start to do things to the mind.

Music is the most powerful of the arts I think.

There comes a point where saying things becomes more than a gimmick, even if the only intent is to sell CDs and make money. I have a feeling that for many of these people it is not a gimmick however.

In this book I just finished it mentions a famous rock star somewhere in Connecticut that was involved in Satanic rituals somehow:

The Devil in Connecticut (Paperback)

They found where people had been performing weird rituals around fires, etc., on this guy's property where his mansion is although it doesn't say who the guy is. Also the police had been attacked or something by people dressed in black robes and hoods.

This was a great book but it is now outside in the hallway here in my apartment building. I feel like there's some sort of force field around this book and something is telling me to never bring it back inside again.

Marylin Manson states that 'God is dead.' For him this is true, it's not just a gimmick.

Madonna appears on stage on a cross, mocks the Church, etc.. This is not just a gimmick. It means something.

Jimmy Page lived in Aleister Crowley's house for awhile I heard. Now there's a place that will surely have some negative energy.

[Moon Minion]

You need only walk through a store that sells music CDs to see that there's an undercurrent of Satanism and the occult in the artwork.

This is also true of comic books to some extent.

I was in a Hot Topic store awhile ago and they were playing some music that sounded like something out of a Friday The 13th movie. Listening to this all day could start to do things to the mind.

Music is the most powerful of the arts I think.

There comes a point where saying things becomes more than a gimmick, even if the only intent is to sell CDs and make money. I have a feeling that for many of these people it is not a gimmick however.

In this book I just finished it mentions a famous rock star somewhere in Connecticut that was involved in Satanic rituals somehow:

The Devil in Connecticut (Paperback)

They found where people had been performing weird rituals around fires, etc., on this guy's property where his mansion is although it doesn't say who the guy is. Also the police had been attacked or something by people dressed in black robes and hoods.

This was a great book but it is now outside in the hallway here in my apartment building. I feel like there's some sort of force field around this book and something is telling me to never bring it back inside again.

Marylin Manson states that 'God is dead.' For him this is true, it's not just a gimmick.

Madonna appears on stage on a cross, mocks the Church, etc.. This is not just a gimmick. It means something.

Jimmy Page lived in Aleister Crowley's house for awhile I heard. Now there's a place that will surely have some negative energy.

A few good points there, but if we're going to play with this ball all music has to come into play. One can't stop at metal/ rock as the fundamental base of unhealthy music. Plenty of various genres all have elements that will "effect" the mind after a while. I heard a mainstream pop song the other day on the radio and was disgusted with the constant loose sexual references. I know I a lot of people don't give two hoots about moral conduct (I wonder why) but I would not be impressed with having children listen to it, but it's right there on the mainstream radio.

I've heard of plenty of artists fully delving into the occult from all genres. I want bother with a list because there are many.

An artist may be into Satanic rituals secretly but sing country western music, he just does not wear that 'gimmick' but that does not mean he doesn't know how to inconspicuously entail his beliefs into the music. An artist with a gimmick doesn't necessarily have to be a faker (though I think there are a lot of them out there), but simply slapping the label on their backs to distinguish what type of music they are. Hence, the gimmick initially draws people in who would rather listen to that type of stuff.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Moon Minion

[Pauly Dangerously]

@Jeff Marzano

The symbols and music and art depicting Satanic or occult images are on these products to sell them. It causes controversy and makes people want to buy it justto see what it's all about. It doesn't necessarily have to mean something, it just is. It exists in and of itself. Those symbols have been around for thousands of years. People use them to sell things. All the occult symbols in the world have not even a minute fraction of the power of this symbol: $