What was the very fist recorded ET Claim

[psyche101]

Hi All

I was having a bit of a think about the whole ET deal and thought to myself

Does any ET claim predate our understanding of the Heavens?

I do not think interpretations of ancient art or interpreted Biblical references can apply, both are known to have flaws.

Before we knew there were planets did anyone think beings from the heavens visited us?

[sinewave]

Doesn't the first one coincide with Roswell and the claims of alien bodies at the alleged crash site?

Edited November 11, 2009 by sinewave

[Evangium]

The ET=UFO=ET 'connection' is a very modern one. I would say that it was probably in the 1950s that the idea started to become entrenched into the definitions of the popular lexicon.

That's not to say that the idea of other intelligent life existing in space is a new one. Fontenelle puts that idea foward in the 1600s, and as we've seen, the ancient astronaut crowd can provide earlier 'examples'. However, the idea that an unknown light or 'object' being an alien spacecraft is definitely one that turns up in the 1950s, promoted by authors such as Gray Barker ('They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers', 1956)

[Jesse_Custer]

The oldest one I can think of is the Aurora UFO crash, which took place in 1890-something in Texas.

[Space Commander Travis]

I found this interesting one in abook by Jenny Randles.

The Nebraska UFO, 1884.

On 6 June, 1884, in a remote area of southern Nebraska called Dundy County,a blazing object fell from the sky , making a terrific whirling sound as it did so. Cowhands who rushed to the scene found cogwheels and other bits of debris scattered on the ground. There was scorched grass surrounding the area and intense heat. ....

Over the next couple of days, many locals went to see the object, even though the metal fragments still glowed with heat and the sand around it was fused like glass. After a while, when it was approachable, some of the metal wheels and other shapes were liften. They seemed to be made out of something like brass, but much lighter.

The story was carried by the Daily State Journal in Lincoln, the nebraska state capital, on 8 June. It was the first to suggest an extreterrestrial origin, suggesting that this seemed the only likely origin if the incident were beign truthfully related and not subject to wild exaggeration.

Now, by the 11th, the paper had decided that it was probably an 'oax, and subsequent research could find no one who ever claimed to have seen such an event, but nevertheless.

[S2F]

I'd have to do some more research, but I would imagine that the UFO=ET angle was probably brought about by early science fiction writers. Possibly authors like Jules Verne or H.G. Wells or some such. "War of the Worlds" was written in 1898, perhaps that wasn't Mr. Wells first foray into the ET subject, or perhaps he was influenced by earlier authors. Although there is a possibility that he was influenced by actual UFO events. Who knows? Without the requisite research this is only conjecture at this point. It is an interesting puzzle though, I'll have to look for more info.

[VALARLIGHT]

You're all wrong!!

There is a passage in the bible known as "Ezekiels Wheel" which is supposed to have the first UFO sighting (in 593BC)

Since personally I don't believe in anything that comes out of that book, I would trust the next find a bit better, which is 329 BC spotted by none other then Alexander the Great.

Alexander the Great records two great silver shields, spitting fire around the rims in the sky that dived repeatedly at his army as they were attempting a river crossing. The action so panicked his elephants, horses, and men they had to abandon the river crossing until the following day.

My favourite UFO sighting though is the 1561 battle over Nuremburg

At sunrise on the 14th April 1561, the citizens of Nuremberg beheld "A very frightful spectacle." The sky appeared to fill with cylindrical objects from which red, black, orange and blue white disks and globes emerged. Crosses and tubes resembling cannon barrels also appeared whereupon the objects promptly "began to fight one another." This event is depicted in a famous 16th century woodcut by Hans Glaser.

EDIT: SO I totally misread the thread ¬_¬ oh well, hope someone finds this info interesting anyway! this is why I shouldn't use forums after waking up

Edited November 11, 2009 by VALARLIGHT

[giannetto]

There are plenty of depeictions throughout history from many civilisations and cultures.. i think there was a painting from the 1500's that depicts jesus on the cross with a crowd looking up into the sky gasping at the sight of a UFO. id consider that people having an idea of alien crafts and ETs

[psyche101]

The ET=UFO=ET 'connection' is a very modern one. I would say that it was probably in the 1950s that the idea started to become entrenched into the definitions of the popular lexicon.

That's not to say that the idea of other intelligent life existing in space is a new one. Fontenelle puts that idea foward in the 1600s, and as we've seen, the ancient astronaut crowd can provide earlier 'examples'. However, the idea that an unknown light or 'object' being an alien spacecraft is definitely one that turns up in the 1950s, promoted by authors such as Gray Barker ('They Knew Too Much About Flying Saucers', 1956)

Mate, thank you, you really are a leading authority in this field but I bet your humble nature wont acknowledge that.

Folks, Evangium has found it I believe, Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds appears to be the first recorded musing of Extraterrestrial life. Published in 1686, it seems to coincide nicely with the invention of the telescope. It is considered to be one of the first major works of the Enlightenment Age.

When we looked up and saw planets, we seemed to go Metro and started the ET ideas rolling.

Much more to read on Fontenelle yet, my thanks once again.

You're all wrong!!

There is a passage in the bible known as "Ezekiels Wheel" which is supposed to have the first UFO sighting (in 593BC)

Since personally I don't believe in anything that comes out of that book, I would trust the next find a bit better, which is 329 BC spotted by none other then Alexander the Great.

Alexander the Great records two great silver shields, spitting fire around the rims in the sky that dived repeatedly at his army as they were attempting a river crossing. The action so panicked his elephants, horses, and men they had to abandon the river crossing until the following day.

My favourite UFO sighting though is the 1561 battle over Nuremburg

At sunrise on the 14th April 1561, the citizens of Nuremberg beheld "A very frightful spectacle." The sky appeared to fill with cylindrical objects from which red, black, orange and blue white disks and globes emerged. Crosses and tubes resembling cannon barrels also appeared whereupon the objects promptly "began to fight one another." This event is depicted in a famous 16th century woodcut by Hans Glaser.

EDIT: SO I totally misread the thread ¬_¬ oh well, hope someone finds this info interesting anyway! this is why I shouldn't use forums after waking up

Haha, thanks, this sort of thing is good, you did not misread the thread. I agree, the Bible obviously contains flaws, so a flawed resources would be unwise to use. Example one being the great flood, a world covered in water would dilute all water systems and we would not have a fossil record of todays freshwater organisms predating the alleged flood. Wether the alleged flood is supposed to be interpretation, not the whole world, who knows, the black and white insinuation is incorrect of a flooded world. If interpretations can be entered into we are delving into personal preference and it just gets muddier from there so on that basis I would like to avoid Biblical accounts as well.

The Alexander the great reference is intriguing, although I cannot imagine why ET would want to stop him crossing a river? So they could whip out for popcorn before the battle? I cannot verify this story, I have tried before, can anyone verify if this tale is actually recorded somewhere, and who wrote it, or if it is another tale coined to bolster belief in ET? The author would be prudent as I have also read that his sister was a mermaid. Apparently Thessalonike turned into a mermaid after she died. She lived in the Aegean and when sailors would encounter her, she would ask them "Is Alexander the king alive?". One author, Callisthenes was employed by Alexander (introduced by Aristotle) to record the war with Persia, but Callisthenes wrote a history of the expedition which was laden with flattery of Alexander, and he appears to have played a large part in the elevation of Alexander as son of Zeus following the visit to Siwa in Egypt.

I believe the legend also says the the discs reappeared when Alexander attacked Tyre seven years later but Alexander attacked Tyre three years earlier - 332 B.C.

Thanks for the info. I found your post interesting

In fact, what a stirling lot of replies. Thank you all, very insightful. I love your post 74700, as soon as we had sightings, we had skeptics!! LOL.

It seems after we saw planets, we started thinking, hey, I wonder if other people are there? And it seems to have blown out from there?

[Evangium]

Mate, thank you, you really are a leading authority in this field but I bet your humble nature wont acknowledge that.

Folks, Evangium has found it I believe, Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds appears to be the first recorded musing of Extraterrestrial life. Published in 1686, it seems to coincide nicely with the invention of the telescope. It is considered to be one of the first major works of the Enlightenment Age.

When we looked up and saw planets, we seemed to go Metro and started the ET ideas rolling.

Much more to read on Fontenelle yet, my thanks once again.

Me a leading authority?! Whilst I'm flattered, I can't take the credit since I'm merely following other better informed authorities

The telescope is certainly the instrument that seems to have got us thinking of other planets being inhabited by beings not unlike ourselves. Fontenelle cetainly brings that idea to the masses, yet Huygens not only carries it a little farther in Cosmotheoros (1698) , but also hints that other luminaries from that era were also furnishing the planets with inhabitants.

Mars is especially noteworthy, since it was probably the first planet in our solar system to have its surface observed from earth. However the idea of actual Martians doesn't appear take hold in sci-fi until the late 1800s, aound about the time Giovanni Schiaparelli confuses the english speaking world with his observations of canali

The Alexander the great reference is intriguing, although I cannot imagine why ET would want to stop him crossing a river? So they could whip out for popcorn before the battle? I cannot verify this story, I have tried before, can anyone verify if this tale is actually recorded somewhere, and who wrote it, or if it is another tale coined to bolster belief in ET? The author would be prudent as I have also read that his sister was a mermaid. Apparently Thessalonike turned into a mermaid after she died. She lived in the Aegean and when sailors would encounter her, she would ask them "Is Alexander the king alive?". One author, Callisthenes was employed by Alexander (introduced by Aristotle) to record the war with Persia, but Callisthenes wrote a history of the expedition which was laden with flattery of Alexander, and he appears to have played a large part in the elevation of Alexander as son of Zeus following the visit to Siwa in Egypt.

I believe the legend also says the the discs reappeared when Alexander attacked Tyre seven years later but Alexander attacked Tyre three years earlier - 332 B.C.

It is also possible that, like most reinterrpretation of ancient literature, we're just adding our modern details. It always strikes me as a little odd how we can't really describe our modern ufos with as much detail as the ancients describe their chariots and thrones...

However, when it comes to tales being spread to bolster the UFO=ET Visitors in ancient times argument, then it is worth considering a brief skeptical opinion on the now infamous 'Battle of Nuremberg'.-

The PopeAss and the Nuremberg Spheres Link

The author of the pamphlet interprets the aerial battle as a sign of God's anger, and urges his readers to "mend their lives" and pray that God "avert his wrath". He also mentions other wonders seen in the sky that year, including a crucifix, "biers and coffins with black men beside them", and "rods and whips". The Ufologists, of course, completely ignore the coffins and crucifixes and bloody crosses and whips and black men. To them, the pamphlet simply describes the appearance of a pair of motherships and a flotilla of spherical craft. Selective? Well yes - just a little.

edit: due to the filter, I've had to repost the link as google search results. It's the 'Damn Data ¦ Best Evidence: The Pope-A**and the Nuremberg Spheres ...' link.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Evangium

[Teslasparkgap]

Only angels in the bible talking to Adam.

Specifically how to bury people.

Modern day writers of ET were CIA and cartel funded according to

Bill "Pentagon Aliens" Lyne starting with Roswell to this day in

one form or another. The subject is sanctioned perhaps like the

drug use in the Mark Ultra projects. I call it activity of anti

Tesla cartel agents to protect free energy devices like the foo

and saucer of the 40s and 50s and all the rest of the strange

ship that have been witnessed. In truth there should be no ET

claim or concern except for wising up to their tactics.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Teslasparkgap

[psyche101]

Only angels in the bible talking to Adam.

Specifically how to bury people.

Modern day writers of ET were CIA and cartel funded according to

Bill "Pentagon Aliens" Lyne starting with Roswell to this day in

one form or another. The subject is sanctioned perhaps like the

drug use in the Mark Ultra projects. I call it activity of anti

Tesla cartel agents to protect free energy devices like the foo

and saucer of the 40s and 50s and all the rest of the strange

ship that have been witnessed. In truth there should be no ET

claim or concern except for wising up to their tactics.

Necropost of the day!

Is this something to do with Bill Django and Lynn Cassidy? I cant get much more from this post I am afraid. You seem to be covering quite a few bases there.

This thread reminds me how much I miss Evangium. I wonder where he is these days.

Edited December 19, 2011 by psyche101

[badeskov]

Only angels in the bible talking to Adam.

Specifically how to bury people.

Modern day writers of ET were CIA and cartel funded according to

Bill "Pentagon Aliens" Lyne starting with Roswell to this day in

one form or another. The subject is sanctioned perhaps like the

drug use in the Mark Ultra projects. I call it activity of anti

Tesla cartel agents to protect free energy devices like the foo

and saucer of the 40s and 50s and all the rest of the strange

ship that have been witnessed. In truth there should be no ET

claim or concern except for wising up to their tactics.

Good grief. What is it with insane Tesla fetish? He was actually not that spectacular if you look at his achievements.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[cluey]

Hi All

I was having a bit of a think about the whole ET deal and thought to myself

Does any ET claim predate our understanding of the Heavens?

I do not think interpretations of ancient art or interpreted Biblical references can apply, both are known to have flaws.

Before we knew there were planets did anyone think beings from the heavens visited us?

think now!!!!........exactly when do you claim these intepretations took place when apparently no one knew there where planets.........

[badeskov]

think now!!!!........exactly when do you claim these intepretations took place when apparently no one knew there where planets.........

I don't think Psyche is making any claims. He is asking a genuine question.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[psyche101]

think now!!!!........exactly when do you claim these intepretations took place when apparently no one knew there where planets.........

Actually no, the link from Evangium regarding the 1686 publication, Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds, actually seems to coincide with astronomical breakthroughs. It seems as long as we have looked up, we have wondered what is up there. The more we can see, the more we imagine.

[psyche101]

I don't think Psyche is making any claims. He is asking a genuine question.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Hi Bade

Thank you, indeed I was asking a question. It sure is getting confusing after all this time.

Cheers.

[lost_shaman]

Actually no, the link from Evangium regarding the 1686 publication, Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds, actually seems to coincide with astronomical breakthroughs. It seems as long as we have looked up, we have wondered what is up there. The more we can see, the more we imagine.

I think religious texts talking about angels and god's and such could be considered here. If so some of the earliest writings are likely candidates.

[psyche101]

I think religious texts talking about angels and god's and such could be considered here. If so some of the earliest writings are likely candidates.

Hard to say, some that have been interpreted have been so with a very zealous pro ETH outlook. I think it would have to be someone pretty level headed to make the call.

[Synergy]

Does any ET claim predate our understanding of the Heavens?

...

Before we knew there were planets did anyone think beings from the heavens visited us?

I think that's a bit of a loaded question due to the fact that people would not draw an ET association pre-enlightenment. It would be a religious experience to them (as I am sure you were alluding to), reports of which are unreliable to begin with. Complicating the matter is the literacy rate of the world population in such times. Very few could read, let alone write, in order to document such encounters. If anything did get documented, you could bet it was local and since lost or destroyed.

I have found plenty of pre-1900 sightings of objects described as "cigar shaped" and "egg shaped" (some published in newspapers of the time) among many other commonalities. Many of these were reported by astronomers. I'm just too lazy to go through my records at the moment, and that doesn't seem to be what you're asking for anyway.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Synergy

[cluey]

Actually no, the link from Evangium regarding the 1686 publication, Conversations on the Plurality of Worlds, actually seems to coincide with astronomical breakthroughs. It seems as long as we have looked up, we have wondered what is up there. The more we can see, the more we imagine.

and this response is as a result of the possible coexsistance of astronamy and words....all in all being an assumption!!!...........proves we are capable of looking to the stars....opening our minds....and god forbid think!!!!............................thats not a question

Edited December 19, 2011 by cluey

[Lysippos]

Hi All

I was having a bit of a think about the whole ET deal and thought to myself

Does any ET claim predate our understanding of the Heavens?

I do not think interpretations of ancient art or interpreted Biblical references can apply, both are known to have flaws.

Before we knew there were planets did anyone think beings from the heavens visited us?

Ancient China has many fascinating tales of beings, from the heavens, flying around.

You should read The Prehistory of Aviation by Berthold Laufer.

Full book.

http://www.archive.org/stream/prehistoryofavia181lauf/prehistoryofavia181lauf_djvu.txt

Very interesting stuff.

[George Ford]

What about the very very old 'rock art' that the ancient Australian Aboriginals did? Looks like aliens to me!

Image from:-

http://mathildasweirdworldweblog.wordpress.com/tag/rock-art/

[quillius]

Hi All

I was having a bit of a think about the whole ET deal and thought to myself

Does any ET claim predate our understanding of the Heavens?

I do not think interpretations of ancient art or interpreted Biblical references can apply, both are known to have flaws.

Before we knew there were planets did anyone think beings from the heavens visited us?

hey Psyche, interesting thread

(going anywhere in particular? )

just thinking, if we are to remove religion and ancient art then do we have any references to the heavens at all?

[Cryptozological Mascot]

How could any of you have missed the ancient writings from India? Oh the humanity!!!

http://ufo.whipnet.org/creation/india.4000BC.ufo/